Dune HD Pro 4K (Ultra) Thread - Page 160 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4771 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Disagree, seamless branching was fixed in July last year - a major fix and it works.
Also blu-Ray menu playback is solid, which is more than can be said for some other unmentionable players. Zzzzzzz.
Thank you Dune
True, but point is...it is still no replacement for the Solo 4K. Which also has solid bluray playback. For years and years. I’m happy you are fine with it, but it is still a bloody shame for the rest of us.
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post #4772 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 02:48 AM
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True, but point is...it is still no replacement for the Solo 4K. Which also has solid bluray playback. For years and years. I’m happy you are fine with it, but it is still a bloody shame for the rest of us.
But HD blu-Ray playback from BDMV folders is as solid as it was with the Solo 4k.

I agree, the Pro 4K is lacking promised functionality (UHD blu-Ray menus), after nearly a year, which is bad.

4k blu-Ray ‘main title’ playback from BDMV folders has also been solid for the movies I’ve watched (again, more reliable than some other unmentionable players).

What issues (specific examples) have you seen ?
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post #4773 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
But HD blu-Ray playback from BDMV folders is as solid as it was with the Solo 4k.

I agree, the Pro 4K is lacking promised functionality (UHD blu-Ray menus), after nearly a year, which is bad.

4k blu-Ray ‘main title’ playback from BDMV folders has also been solid for the movies I’ve watched (again, more reliable than some other unmentionable players).

What issues (specific examples) have you seen ?
For me, UHD menu’s is one of the reasons why i bought this player. It is still not there. And the solid playback and superb functionality i was used from the Prime and the Solo 4K etc, something you would assume this one would have to from the start... But it does not... My main concern is the framerate issue, skipping/selecting of chapters in mkv and bluray/uhd, changing subtitle and audio delay, a good DVD player (like on the sigma players, not this ****ty realtek crap) and the ever faulty HDR metadata it produces... and UHD menu’s offcourse.
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post #4774 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jowicrt View Post
For me, UHD menu’s is one of the reasons why i bought this player. It is still not there. And the solid playback and superb functionality i was used from the Prime and the Solo 4K etc, something you would assume this one would have to from the start... But it does not... My main concern is the framerate issue, skipping/selecting of chapters in mkv and bluray/uhd, changing subtitle and audio delay, a good DVD player (like on the sigma players, not this ****ty realtek crap) and the ever faulty HDR metadata it produces... and UHD menu’s offcourse.
I know the framerate issue gets mentioned a lot, but it’s never been a significant issue for me.
I don’t play MKVs, so can’t comment on those issues.

HD blu-Ray playback from the Pro 4K (BDMV folders) was problematic until seamless branching was fixed in July last year (audio glitches at m2ts file changeover). But since then it has been solid.

4K blu-Ray playback has always been solid on the Pro 4K (main title playback from BDMV UHD blu-Ray folders).
I thought Chapter skip/selection for blu-Ray was working, time jump is definitely working. I suspect it depends on how the movie was launched. I think it works if the movie is launched from the menu. But that’s also true of seamless branching, it works correctly if the movie is launched from the menu.

A good DVD player would be useful, but I don’t play many DVDs theses days.
The metadata issue doesn’t impact my 2016 display.

If UHD blu-Ray menu support was there, this player would satisfy my requirements.
(And, The PQ is excellent)

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post #4775 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 04:03 AM
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Thing is, i think many considered this a Solo 4K++. I know i did. Everything the Solo 4K did, plus actual, proper HDR, and UHD menu's! Everything we always wanted from the Solo... but apart from HDR, it is still the lesser player compared to the Solo 4K.
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post #4776 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 04:17 AM
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Thing is, i think many considered this a Solo 4K++. I know i did. Everything the Solo 4K did, plus actual, proper HDR, and UHD menu's! Everything we always wanted from the Solo... but apart from HDR, it is still the lesser player compared to the Solo 4K.
I agree, it hasn’t produced everything that was promised, but as the Solo 4k could not correctly play UHD blu-Ray and the Pro 4K can and the Pro 4K can (now) also correctly play HD blu-ray, is it less of a player ?

The main and most annoying issue is that the promised functionality should have been implemented long before now.
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post #4777 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 04:23 AM
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I think it is less then the Solo, yes. Solo has no framerate issues, it has every functionality you want and need, and has a proper dvd player (which i agree, is probably more important to me then most people).
I disagree on the 4K pro correctly playing UHD... it outputs wrong HDR metadata, and incorporates framerate issue... so it does NOT play HDR/UHD properly. But i am repeating myself, i think my point is clear.
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post #4778 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 05:26 AM
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I have to completely agree that, as of right now the Solo is a much better player!

The next firmware update really needs to be a bloody miracle to bring it up to the level of "just works" that the previous Dune's had.

I don't have a HDR TV at the moment so 4K is unusable as the HDR conversion is useless. I get a weird slow-mo effect every 10-15 minutes on 1080p playback as well which I can't work out why. It's hard to explain but it's like the machine goes into slow motion for a second or two every 10-15 minutes.....sounds crazy but it's true. I've updated firmware and reset the player but it still does it.

Android apps are a joke on this player, I can't get any connection over network so my music apps that work perfectly on all previous dunes now don't work at all.....to be honest the list goes on and on!!!!

I'm a massive fan of Dune and have several of their players (TV 301's, Smart D1's, Solo) but this Pro is a serious backwards step.

Hopefull dune will come through with the next BIG update and prove us all wrong...please
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post #4779 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 07:25 AM
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I think it is less then the Solo, yes. Solo has no framerate issues, it has every functionality you want and need, and has a proper dvd player (which i agree, is probably more important to me then most people).
I disagree on the 4K pro correctly playing UHD... it outputs wrong HDR metadata, and incorporates framerate issue... so it does NOT play HDR/UHD properly. But i am repeating myself, i think my point is clear.

Your experience is obviously different but disagree with this statement...………………


'I disagree on the 4K pro correctly playing UHD... it outputs wrong HDR metadata, and incorporates framerate issue... so it does NOT play HDR/UHD properly'


The metadata issue doesn't affect the ability of the Pro 4k to actually play the movie.
Neither does the framerate issue.


Imperfect playback would be issues such as audio dropout or video freezing.(as occurs with another media player we cannot mention). Now those would definitely be issues.
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post #4780 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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I get a weird slow-mo effect every 10-15 minutes on 1080p playback as well which I can't work out why. It's hard to explain but it's like the machine goes into slow motion for a second or two every 10-15 minutes.....sounds crazy but it's true. I've updated firmware and reset the player but it still does it.
I also got slow motion problems when playing mkvs. Dont know if its the same as i have but sometimes the video slows down for maybe 4-5 seconds but then continues normally. I did not take time but its several times in a normal movie and pretty annoying. Its like the players cpu is busy and not enough power for the video left. I tried to reproduce it with the same videos but for me its more random. If you can reproduce it every time then it should be easier to find a fix, if any exists. First i thought its a framerate issue but i dont know. I tried some different settings but didnt help yet but i keep trying. If you find a solution then maybe you can post it here .
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post #4781 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 07:30 AM
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The metadata issue doesn't affect the ability of the Pro 4k to actually play the movie.
Neither does the framerate issue.
You are so wrong, it is almost hilarious.
Have fun with your Pro 4K, and look up the term 'cognitive dissonance' if you find some time

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post #4782 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 07:38 AM
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...
The metadata issue doesn't affect the ability of the Pro 4k to actually play the movie.
Neither does the framerate issue...

You're kidding right?

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post #4783 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 07:47 AM
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You're kidding right?
I notice dropped (or repeated?) frames maybe once every 5 hours.
Granted, it's a shame for a player not to have exact 24/1.0001, but it's barely an issue on my OLED Sony. It could be different on another display.
As for HDR, I compared the output to my Oppo 203, and frankly, I don't see any difference.
So yes, these 2 issues should be fixed, but they are mostly invisible on regular material. I'm sure though that one can find test patterns that will show then.

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post #4784 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:01 AM
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I notice dropped (or repeated?) frames maybe once every 5 hours.
Granted, it's a shame for a player not to have exact 24/1.0001, but it'a barely an issue.
As for HDR, I compared the output to my Oppo 203, and frankly, I don't see any difference.
So yes, these 2 issues should be fixed, but they are mostly invisible on regular material. I'm sure though that one can find test patterns that will show then.
I think there's definitely a sensitivity issue with repeated frames (The 4K repeats frames rather than drops them - dropped frames usually indicate throughput issues rather than bad playback) as has been said many times, it bothers some people and not others.

And it's only noticeable on moving scenes, notably pans, so a lot of the time it can go unnoticed, but for those of us that see it, it can't be unseen and takes you right out the movie.

I also suspect that a lot of people, either knowingly or unknowingly, have some form of frame interpolation/smoothing set on their TVs - the work of the devil as far as I'm concerned

It's a real deal breaker for me but after Zidoo solved it on the X9S I'm hopeful Dune will come through also. It'd be a shame if they didn't.

The meta data issue is very much dependent on your display and how it handles HDR, in other words, how it sets the gamma in relation to the content light levels. I set mine manually using custom curves, so I can decide whether or not to use CLL or whether to use a more generic "one curve fits all" but it's better with correct metadata, particularly for highlights.

I don't think any of the 1295 boxes spit out correct metadata yet, but Zidoo have managed it on the 1296 so maybe it's possible for the 1295 players too...


(by the way - you did it again - it's 24/1.001 not 24/1.0001, conventionally written 24000/1001)

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post #4785 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:19 AM
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You're kidding right?
No, I'm serious.


The metadata issue isn't that significant.


The current raft of movies are mastered at either 1,000 or 4,000 nits.
If you have a projector, manually select the appropriate maxfall, maxcll data, not a big issue.


There would be an issue if the display device supported HDR10+ or DV, but since the Pro 4K doesn't support either, it's a non issue.


Duplicated frames, with real world viewing....


So, you watch a 2 hour movie and you concentrate on long panning shots to see the (potential) duplicated frame.
Personally, I concentrate on the movie. I can't say spotting a duplicated frame was memorable.
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post #4786 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
No, I'm serious.


The metadata issue isn't that significant.


The current raft of movies are mastered at either 1,000 or 4,000 nits.
If you have a projector, manually select the appropriate maxfall, maxcll data, not a big issue.


.

Yeah it is! How would you know content light level if the metadata doesn't tell you, and besides - manually?? we're not in the dark ages you know!


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So, you watch a 2 hour movie and you concentrate on long panning shots to see the (potential) duplicated frame.
Personally, I concentrate on the movie. I can't say spotting a duplicated frame was memorable.

Nope, no concentration required, you just see it and it brings you right out of the movie - and you previously said you use FI settings anyway!

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post #4787 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by robena View Post
I notice dropped (or repeated?) frames maybe once every 5 hours.
Granted, it's a shame for a player not to have exact 24/1.0001, but it's barely an issue on my OLED Sony. It could be different on another display.
As for HDR, I compared the output to my Oppo 203, and frankly, I don't see any difference.
So yes, these 2 issues should be fixed, but they are mostly invisible on regular material. I'm sure though that one can find test patterns that will show then.
One could agree that the FPS off is a no issue for 95% of people. But anyone buying one of the newer PJ's would hate the metadata issue as they use it more then say an OLED tv. Only the most recent 2019 models are starting to use MaxCLL and MaxFLL but not in the same way as a PJ does but getting close. The 2019 LG OLED is a good example as they even give settings for adjusting what the tv does with that data and setting the roll-off point. A lot of tv have fall backs if no data is given say a device send zeros it will just use system default data. If say its sending proper data between the tv's settings then the display starts to adjust for the data received. So if you have a an older TV it wont be a problem. If you have a newer PJ or new OLED they become a problem.

Its strange that so many people defend the issues and pass them off. I understand wanting to defend DUNE. For years they put out good players but this time around it was more a dud then a solid player. Im not standing up for other brands that start with Z or an H as for years they have been missing mark on playback features as well. Starting from the start we all wished DUNE would be a solid player in the android market and help change it for the better. But at current time they are just like the rest.

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post #4788 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:38 AM
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Yeah it is! How would you know content light level if the metadata doesn't tell you, and besides - manually?? we're not in the dark ages you know!





Nope, no concentration required, you just see it and it brings you right out of the movie - and you previously said you use FI settings anyway!
Talking about the dark ages, Metedata, currently, it's a binary choice, not too difficult.
Admittedly it could go to a tertiary choice with DV movies mastered at 10,000nits, now that could get complicated.


To be clear, we are discussing the Pro 4k here.






But, the Pro 4k doesn't support DV.
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post #4789 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:54 AM
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One could agree that the FPS off is a no issue for 95% of people. But anyone buying one of the newer PJ's would hate the metadata issue as they use it more then say an OLED tv. Only the most recent 2019 models are starting to use MaxCLL and MaxFLL but not in the same way as a PJ does but getting close. The 2019 LG OLED is a good example as they even give settings for adjusting what the tv does with that data and setting the roll-off point. A lot of tv have fall backs if no data is given say a device send zeros it will just use system default data. If say its sending proper data between the tv's settings then the display starts to adjust for the data received. So if you have a an older TV it wont be a problem. If you have a newer PJ or new OLED they become a problem.

But, we are discussing the Pro 4k, a media player from early 2018.
It's never going to support HDR10+ or DV.


You would have a valid point, if the Pro 4k spec had included that HDR functionality.


Yes, then it would be essential for the later display hardware that supports those features.


But, it's not going to happen with this media player. It's a binary choice for those users who are using the Pro 4k, even with the very latest hardware.
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post #4790 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 08:59 AM
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But, we are discussing the Pro 4k, a media player from early 2018.
It's never going to support HDR10+ or DV.


You would have a valid point, if the Pro 4k spec had included that HDR functionality.


Yes, then it would be essential for the later display hardware that supports those features.


But, it's not going to happen with this media player. It's a binary choice for those users who are using the Pro 4k, even with the very latest hardware.
The specs we are discussing are HDR specs not HDR10+ specs. So how do they not apply? I agree an HDR10+ spec is out of the question on the player. But your comment on latest hardware is not true. I think the 2018 or even the 2017 JVC used it for tone mapping. OLED's were behind in adopting usage for it. But the fact still remains maxcfll and maxfll are HDR static metadata specs that can be used to help the display reach the master quality as intended.

Again why are you so fast to put down every issue as a non issue? Do you have some deep seeded loyalty to DUNE.

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post #4791 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:01 AM
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Can someone confirm full (1080p) bluray menu support is now working properly? And wether or nor dune still sells this unit with the remote without backlight?
Thank you

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post #4792 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:06 AM
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Can someone confirm full (1080p) bluray menu support is now working properly? And wether or nor dune still sells this unit with the remote without backlight?
Thank you
menus yes, No longer comes with a backlight remote.
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post #4793 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:18 AM
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Talking about the dark ages, Metedata, currently, it's a binary choice, not too difficult.
Admittedly it could go to a tertiary choice with DV movies mastered at 10,000nits, now that could get complicated.


To be clear, we are discussing the Pro 4k here.


But, the Pro 4k doesn't support DV.
Not sure where DV comes into it (or how binary and tertiary relate either!) but I think you’re mixing up Mastering Display capabilities (the capabilities of the PVM in the post suite) to CLL.

MaxCLL and MaxFALL are the important numbers and are different for very movie.

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post #4794 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by halfelite View Post
The specs we are discussing are HDR specs not HDR10+ specs. So how do they not apply? I agree an HDR10+ spec is out of the question on the player. But your comment on latest hardware is not true. I think the 2018 or even the 2017 JVC used it for tone mapping. OLED's were behind in adopting usage for it. But the fact still remains maxcfll and maxfll are HDR static metadata specs that can be used to help the display reach the master quality as intended.

Again why are you so fast to put down every issue as a non issue? Do you have some deep seeded loyalty to DUNE.

No deep seated loyalty to Dune, in fact of the 3 players I'm using at the moment there is a clear winner and it's not the Dune or the Zzzzzz (unmentionable)..


The winner has played both HD and UHD BDMV folders, via Blu-ray menus flawlessly and the PQ is superior to both the Dune and the other player.


But, the Dune Pro 4K comes a close second in those respects.
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post #4795 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
The winner has played both HD and UHD BDMV folders, via Blu-ray menus flawlessly and the PQ is superior to both the Dune and the other player.
And what's is the name of the winner?
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post #4796 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Glarioo View Post
And what's is the name of the winner?
Can’t go too far off topic Oxxx
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post #4797 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 10:12 AM
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Not sure where DV comes into it (or how binary and tertiary relate either!) but I think you’re mixing up Mastering Display capabilities (the capabilities of the PVM in the post suite) to CLL.

MaxCLL and MaxFALL are the important numbers and are different for very movie.
I’ll clarify.
Binary, a choice of 2, in this case movies mastered at either 1,000 or 4,000 nits.
DV potentially introduces a third (tertiary) choice, movies mastered at 10,000 nits.
But that’s likely to remain irrelevant to this particular media player.

No mix up on my part, later display devices with tone mapping capabilities are able to respond to MaxFall and MaxCll data.

But from movies I’ve watched on a player which reports this data, those values generally tie in with the mastering data.
So, for a projector that data could be used to select an appropriate gamma curve.

Displays which support that data permit manual selection.

Last edited by Whirlpool0548; 02-17-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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post #4798 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 10:22 AM
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(by the way - you did it again - it's 24/1.001 not 24/1.0001, conventionally written 24000/1001)
Just a small tyyyyypo.
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post #4799 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 10:23 AM
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Just a small tyyyyypo.

Sorry - being pedantic

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post #4800 of 6130 Old 02-17-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
I’ll clarify.
Binary, a choice of 2, in this case movies mastered at either 1,000 or 4,000 nits.
DV potentially introduces a third (tertiary) choice, movies mastered at 10,000 nits.
But that’s likely to remain irrelevant to this particular media player.

No mix up on my part, later display devices with tone mapping capabilities are able to respond to MaxFall and MaxCll data.

But from movies I’ve watched on a player which reports this data, those values generally tie in with the mastering data.
So, for a projector that data could be used to select an appropriate gamma curve.

Displays which support that data permit manual selection.

I think the misunderstanding is that Mastering Display does not mean that the movie is, to quote you, "mastered at" say 4000nits, it merely means that the monitor used to master it has the capability of reaching 4000nits. And although I agree that MaxCLL is often in the ballpark of MDL, similarly it often isn't - you may find MDL set at 4000nits but MaxCLL say 900nits and if you use MDL as a benchmark to roll off a curve you'll have a very dull picture.


Anyway, way off topic now and no doubt someone will snitch to a mod shortly and we'll all be told off...

Zidoo Z9S | Dune Pro 4K | HDFury Vertex | 32TB mirrored storage
Denon AVC-X8500H | JVC DLA X7000 | Screen Research 9ft multi aspect ClearPix 2 ISF screen
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