Dune HD Pro 4K (Ultra) Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 5323 Old 12-09-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Unfortunately I think it's a restriction of Android, but we'll see. It's a real shame they had to move away from Linux into a bloated phone OS, but Zappiti have done a half decent job of hiding it so I hope Dune do the same.
It maybe but on the Nvidia Shield both Plex and SPMC\Kodi automatically change framerate to match source.

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post #62 of 5323 Old 12-09-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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It maybe but on the Nvidia Shield both Plex and SPMC\Kodi automatically change framerate to match source.
He was talking about resolution and not the framerate.
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post #63 of 5323 Old 12-09-2017, 01:09 PM
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He was talking about resolution and not the framerate.
Ah OK. Plex and Kodi\SPMC on the Shield send 1080 as 1080 and 2160 as 2160 - or am I missing something here?

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post #64 of 5323 Old 12-09-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
Ah OK. Plex and Kodi\SPMC on the Shield send 1080 as 1080 and 2160 as 2160 - or am I missing something here?
It was broken for a long time. He was referring to source direct. You play 480p material it outputs 480. I know it was still there as of 3.3 but no idea if they ever fixed it.
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post #65 of 5323 Old 12-09-2017, 06:24 PM
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I would think its not a hardware restriction but poor player software implementation. Dune players have always been excellent with their players - its the interface that is poor.

The new players need to come with a fully polished My Collection akin to that offered by Kodi. That coupled with the Dunes current ability to play Bluray (and hopefully UHD Bluray) with full menu support it will be an awesome product.
Zidoo just implemented auto resolution switching on the x9s / X10 devices and that's a Realtek 1295 platform using Android, so others should be able to do it based on that platform too if they are using it or the never 1296 one.
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post #66 of 5323 Old 12-10-2017, 08:00 AM
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Zidoo just implemented auto resolution switching on the x9s / X10 devices and that's a Realtek 1295 platform using Android, so others should be able to do it based on that platform too if they are using it or the never 1296 one.
It sounds like the Realtek chips are capable of auto refresh rate and resolution switching. Does anyone know if Realtek device can properly switch colorspaces?

I have a Shield and there is an issue with that so I'm not sure if it is an Android problem.

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post #67 of 5323 Old 12-10-2017, 11:34 AM
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It sounds like the Realtek chips are capable of auto refresh rate and resolution switching. Does anyone know if Realtek device can properly switch colorspaces?

I have a Shield and there is an issue with that so I'm not sure if it is an Android problem.
I can only speak for the Zappiti, but yes, it follows colour space, bit depth and colour sub-sampling correctly as long as the sink EDID supports what you are trying to squirt out of it.


If not, it will fall back to a mode in line with the sink EDID.
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post #68 of 5323 Old 12-15-2017, 02:33 PM
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I asked DUNE and they do still support dune_folder.txt which I guess was a given but still worth asking I thought as they were changing os.
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post #69 of 5323 Old 12-17-2017, 12:29 AM
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Hey all,

So from what I understand we could be stuck with a new generation of dune mediaplayers which have taken a step back regarding SDR PQ?, due to the use of the lesser REALTEK chip instead of the better SIGMA's?.

I love my current DUNE smart player, and I actually sent back the Zappiti HDR because PQ for SDR was better on the dune...using my JVC projector on a 105" screen, the differences were quite noticable.

I am quite excited about a DUNE player which can do HDR, but SDR is more important for me at this point and probably will be more important in the future.

If it is good, I'll buy it in a heartbeat though.

Dimitri

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post #70 of 5323 Old 12-17-2017, 01:51 AM
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Hey all,

So from what I understand we could be stuck with a new generation of dune mediaplayers which have taken a step back regarding SDR PQ?, due to the use of the lesser REALTEK chip instead of the better SIGMA's?.

I love my current DUNE smart player, and I actually sent back the Zappiti HDR because PQ for SDR was better on the dune...using my JVC projector on a 105" screen, the differences were quite noticable.

I am quite excited about a DUNE player which can do HDR, but SDR is more important for me at this point and probably will be more important in the future.

If it is good, I'll buy it in a heartbeat though.

Dimitri

I'm curious - I have a JVC X7000 projecting onto a 105" screen too and I use both Dune and Zapitti.


(also an HDFury Linker to strip HDR metadata from the Zapitti to the JVC which allows a custom gamma and dynamic iris with an HDR source)


So I'm interested what differences you saw between the Dune and Zapitti in SDR? Resolution, colour rendition or something else?




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post #71 of 5323 Old 12-17-2017, 02:02 AM
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Mark,

Especially colour and resolution. The Zappiti looked a bit bloated colourwise. Dune has more natural colours.

JVC has been ISF'd, which tends to show these differences more.

How are your findings regarding the two mediaplayers?.
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post #72 of 5323 Old 12-17-2017, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dimitri_ISF View Post
Mark,

Especially colour and resolution. The Zappiti looked a bit bloated colourwise. Dune has more natural colours.

JVC has been ISF'd, which tends to show these differences more.

How are your findings regarding the two mediaplayers?.

Ah right - my pj has not been ISF'd so may be more forgiving.

I love the Dune - I've got two, one running on a 60" Samsung and the other in the cinema. I use them every day and the Zapitti is more of a test device in the cinema at the moment - particularly since the new Dunes have been announced with the same chipset.

I use the Dune on both SDR & HDR material, switching the awful HDR "conversion" off and the PJ on BT.2020 and a custom Gamma (thanks to all the guys over on the RS600/500 thread - Manni, Arve et al) and to be fair it's pretty good!

In my setup I see some banding and I'm not sure of the source - seemingly it's outputting 4:2:2 12-bit but others don't see it so ymmv.

One of the problems is you can't control or see the colour subsampling settings, so what I like about the Zapitti is I can set it at 4:4:4 10 or 12 bit. I assume because that's in the android settings, the new Dunes will allow this too.

The picture quality of the Zapitti in HDR is pretty damn good - better than the Dune with it's compromises of course, but what I haven't done is a comparison in SDR.

I think overall I'm excited about trying the new Dunes and as I'd said in an earlier post, as long as they hide Android as well as Zapitti do it should be a winner.

One thing I don't like about the Zapitti is the walled garden of the interface - I have a completely changed skin (nice and flat and simple) for the Dune and I run YaDis with my own skin so I'm a bit of a control freak about such things. If the new Dunes don't allow the same flexibility with regards skinning and don't support YaDis, that could be an issue for me.


Mark

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post #73 of 5323 Old 12-19-2017, 11:12 PM
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Is there any player in the world, capable to playback, with full menu, a Bluray 4k backup (HDD copy)?
Thank you.
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post #74 of 5323 Old 12-20-2017, 02:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Egreat A5,10,11 and I think the latest Zidoo generation does it as well.
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post #75 of 5323 Old 12-21-2017, 05:07 AM
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Can I ask what the typical 4K content you guys are watching with current Dune and/or Zappiti players?

I currently have a Dune (non 4K) that I like, and use often, but it's mainly for my BluRay rips. What/Where is the 4K content you guys are using on these players? THanks!

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post #76 of 5323 Old 12-21-2017, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Buy them and use deuhd or makemkv (with an UHD "friendly" drive) plus leaked keys.
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post #77 of 5323 Old 12-21-2017, 08:20 AM
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Dune.ru are taking pre-orders for the Pro 4K, no delivery date though...
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post #78 of 5323 Old 12-23-2017, 07:14 AM
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So to be clear, with this new 4K pro supporting HDMI 2.0, it is able to send HDR over HDMI, so there is no need for the HDR "conversion" anymore?

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post #79 of 5323 Old 12-23-2017, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the new player will be fully capable of HDR10 playback.
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post #80 of 5323 Old 12-25-2017, 08:58 PM
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Sledgehamma. Are you getting the new players for review?

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post #81 of 5323 Old 12-25-2017, 10:42 PM
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Sledgehamma. Are you getting the new players for review?
See below

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Good news: I got a positive answer and I'll do a review once the player is available
I was curious, were you given an indication which one it would be?

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post #82 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 12:47 AM
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I was curious, were you given an indication which one it would be?
Hopefully the Dune HD Pro 4K!

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post #83 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure which of the two it will be.
As I'm keeping the player I guess it wont be the Ultra one^^
But I couldn't test the analog audio section properly anyways.
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post #84 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 07:57 AM
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Yes, the new player will be fully capable of HDR10 playback.
Thanks. I've now setup my JVC projector using the 1000nit and 4000nit custom gamma curves from Manni01 using the Arve tool, and per instruction set the Solo 4K's HDR conversion OFF, and i must say that it produces a very satisfying picture. Now, the thing is that i have no idea what it is supposed to look like, and also, the Dune is designated as a player that does not support 'full' HDR... so, what am i looking at if i use the Dune this way, can this be designated as HDR or not, and if not, why not? What am i missing in case of this not being the real deal? What will the upcoming Dune HD Pro 4K do better compared to the Solo?
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post #85 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The SoC of the Dune Solo 4K does not support either the new colorspace (BT.2020) nor HDR. However, this is what 99,999% of UHD BD are mastered at.
Therefore, the player decoces a BT.2020 image as it were a BT.709 image (colorspace used on regular BDs), which results in incorrect colors.
Also, the Solo 4K is incapable of telling the display device that the current signal is BT.2020/HDR. So unless you can manually set your display device to BT.2020/HDR, the image looks waaay off. Since most display do not allow it, this makes the Solo useless in that context.
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post #86 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 09:26 AM
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That is what i find confusing; if i don't use the Dune's HDR conversion playing a UHD bluray, the image is incorrect, it looks washed out etc. just like you say. If i turn the conversion ON, it looks normal on a non-HDR display, so this is probably the BT.2020 to BT.709 conversion.

But... if i turn the conversion OFF, and set my JVC X7500 to HDR and HDR colorspace using HDR modes and the custom gamma curves, it looks brilliant. Colors are deeper and fuller. There is definitely improvement in colors and dynamics playing HDR demo files without Dune's conversion on a HDR enabeld display over a non HDR display with conversion on, but, if i read correctly, this should not be possible? Like you say the JVC does not recognize the signal as HDR, i have to activate HDR manually. But it does seem to work?

So, what is the Dune actually outputting when playing a HDR source, with conversion OFF, on a HDR display?
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post #87 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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They don’t use a BT.2020 to BT.709 conversion as this is impossible for the player to do.
They just alter settings regarding saturation etc. so that the picture looks more normal.

Yes, with manually setting your PJ into BT.2020/HDR mode it looks more normal but colors won’t be accurate. If you are happy with the picture, then there is nothing to worry about.

The player always decoces and outputs the video as BT.709, as that’s the only thing it can do. Now, with conversion enabled it applies some post processing (as mentioned above). Problems should be most visible in green and you also loose the HDR meta data so you need to check how the movie was mastered (maximum brightness) and than apply that to your PJ.
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post #88 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 09:49 AM
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I can see the signal the Dune is generating is indeed BT.709 (on the Vertex.) Good to know that actual, real HDR will even be better... i would settle for this, but now i know i'll have to get my hands on this new Dune player
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post #89 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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keep your Solo safe, though. It still offers the best picture quality for 1080p and lower
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post #90 of 5323 Old 12-26-2017, 09:59 AM
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What if i told you i still have the Dune Prime 3.0 here locked away in a safe place just in case the Solo breaks down

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