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post #1 of 11 Old 02-01-2018, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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POE Filter Throttling Speeds

I just set up my MoCA network and everything seems to be working okay, but I have a strange issue. I am an Xfinity customer paying for 250mb download speeds. When I have a POE filter on my line, my speeds drop to approx 130mb download. Without the filter on the point of entry, I can get up to 290mb speeds (which is great since it's a bit more than I pay for.)

But I don't want my MoCA leaking out of my house, so I really need to put the POE filter on there. But why is it throttling my speed?

I haven't seen anyone else with this issue, anywhere. I'm very new to all this. Attached is a diagram of my setup:

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Any ideas?



RG
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post #2 of 11 Old 02-01-2018, 10:42 PM
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Easy solution. Split the input with a 2 way splitter. One leg goes to the modem. The other leg goes to the POE filter and the rest of your coax devices (TVs, set top boxes, MoCA devices etc). Your router hooks to the modem and the rest as usual.
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-02-2018, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Easy solution. Split the input with a 2 way splitter. One leg goes to the modem. The other leg goes to the POE filter and the rest of your coax devices (TVs, set top boxes, MoCA devices etc). Your router hooks to the modem and the rest as usual.
Thanks, Worf.



Not sure how that's going to work? I'm already splitting the input, and if one split goes to the MODEM > ROUTER > MOCA and the other split is POE > MOCA > TV > Etc. then that puts the POE filter on the inside, right? The MoCA data from my router would still be able to leak out of the original splitter.


Maybe you can draw this out for me if I'm not understanding you completely.
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post #4 of 11 Old 02-02-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
Thanks, Worf.



Not sure how that's going to work? I'm already splitting the input, and if one split goes to the MODEM > ROUTER > MOCA and the other split is POE > MOCA > TV > Etc. then that puts the POE filter on the inside, right? The MoCA data from my router would still be able to leak out of the original splitter.


Maybe you can draw this out for me if I'm not understanding you completely.
I believe you're correct, that won't work. The POE filter needs to be placed at the Point Of Entry of your cable in front of the MoCA adapter before the Modem. The POE is the door that keeps your signal inside.

So coax cable coming in >POE filter >coax to MoCA adapter in > MoCA adapter out coax > cable modem > Ethernet cable to router > Ethernet cable back to MoCA adapter.

Assuming you're connections are setup properly, I would suspect that you have a bad POE filter or you are using splitters or a POE that don't have enough bandwidth blocking signal.
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-04-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
I am an Xfinity customer paying for 250mb download speeds.
Any chance that your provider is doing DOCSIS 3.1 ? (link)

If yes, it's possible that the "PoE" MoCA filter is cutting-off DOCSIS 3.1 channels that your modem needs to hit max bandwidth. And the only solution I'm aware of, looking at your diagram, would be running a new dedicated coax line from the point-of-entry to your modem location. (Well, unless the modem, itself, could be moved to the junction location ... along with the router, and a third ECB6200 MoCA adapter. Possible if the junction is in a utility closet, not so much if in a cable box on the side of the house.)

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post #6 of 11 Old 02-04-2018, 01:02 PM
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Ok, so the Netgear CM600 is only DOCSIS 3.0, so the issue isn't likely DOCSIS 3.1.

Aside from the previous suggestion to try a different MoCA filter at the point-of-entry (to rule out a defective MoCA filter), you may want to try adding another MoCA filter on the input of the CM600. (It's possible that the CM600 is being affected by the MoCA signals, strengthened by the placement of the "PoE" MoCA filter.)

Note that b_curry's suggested configuration would effectively protect the CM600 from MoCA signals in the same way as an additional MoCA filter, by connecting the modem to the ECB6200's RF/STB Out port. (MoCA signals are not passed through this port.)
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
... >coax to MoCA adapter in > MoCA adapter out coax > cable modem > Ethernet cable to router
If you don't use this pass-through and want to stick with your original layout, try a MoCA filter on the CM600's input.

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post #7 of 11 Old 02-05-2018, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I REALLY appreciate you helping out with this.

Regarding the possibility of a bad POE filter, I replaced the filter, but I'm still seeing the same results.

Here's a bit of an update: The problem is not solely with the POE filter. The cable box near the top of my image diagram is actually an X1 DVR from Comcast. If I remove this DVR from the network, I can have a POE filter on the line and get the full download speeds. Or (as stated in my original post) I can have the X1 DVR on there, but not the filter, and I will get the full download speeds. SO, it's having both of them on the line at the same time that throttles the speed!

With this added knowledge, do you think I should still try b_curry's suggested configuration? Or still add a filter on the CM600 input? Or does this added info make you think I should try something else?

Thanks!
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-06-2018, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
I REALLY appreciate you helping out with this.

Regarding the possibility of a bad POE filter, I replaced the filter, but I'm still seeing the same results.

Here's a bit of an update: The problem is not solely with the POE filter. The cable box near the top of my image diagram is actually an X1 DVR from Comcast. If I remove this DVR from the network, I can have a POE filter on the line and get the full download speeds. Or (as stated in my original post) I can have the X1 DVR on there, but not the filter, and I will get the full download speeds. SO, it's having both of them on the line at the same time that throttles the speed!

With this added knowledge, do you think I should still try b_curry's suggested configuration? Or still add a filter on the CM600 input? Or does this added info make you think I should try something else?

Thanks!
I always set the first MoCA adapter cable pass through to feed the modem. I find it convenient to keep the MoCA adapter, modem, and router close together in one place as a head end unit. You always want the POE filter installed before any splitters. I've never installed as you have, however, your schematic should be OK though. From your schematic, the POE is technically in front of the input of the CM600 modem. With the splitters piggybacked, the cable box and the CM600 are receiving a 7dB drop in signal strength (assuming they are 2 way splitters) which should still be ok.

If the speed is OK without the X1 box your MoCA is good. I would guess the problem is in the X1 DVR's DOCSIS. You probably need to call Xfinity.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-06-2018, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
I always set the first MoCA adapter cable pass through to feed the modem. I find it convenient to keep the MoCA adapter, modem, and router close together in one place as a head end unit. You always want the POE filter installed before any splitters. I've never installed as you have, however, your schematic should be OK though. From your schematic, the POE is technically in front of the input of the CM600 modem. With the splitters piggybacked, the cable box and the CM600 are receiving a 7dB drop in signal strength (assuming they are 2 way splitters) which should still be ok.

If the speed is OK without the X1 box your MoCA is good. I would guess the problem is in the X1 DVR's DOCSIS. You probably need to call Xfinity.
I've actually had 2 Xfinity reps out to my house. The first was a subcontractor who never even heard of MoCA. I requested a second, more technical rep, and the guy they sent did know a little about all this, but he was no expert. And since what I'm doing is technically called 'home networking' it is out of their purview to really do anything about it. But he was inquisitive and I showed him what I learned through research and various forums, etc.


I agree that the MoCA network is set up properly, since it works very well without the X1 on there. Reading through forums it seems I'm not the only one who has a problem with the X1 and their MoCA setup. Some people can't even get it to work at all with the X1 on there.


I don't have a lot of options with the schematic given the setup of my cabling, but I can try what you suggested without too much effort.


A member in another forum suggested this: Place an additional POE filter on the cable input to the X1. Since I don't need that X1 to communicate with any other boxes in the house, and since we know the interference is coming solely from that X1, maybe we can block any signals that may be affecting the network speed. I have an extra POE filter, so I can easily give this a try too.



With the current configuration, I do get top speed off anything plugged directly into my router. It is only the speed test on the computer that is wired through MoCA (bottom of my diagram) that receives a throttled speed when the X1 is hooked up.
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post #10 of 11 Old 02-06-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
I've actually had 2 Xfinity reps out to my house. The first was a subcontractor who never even heard of MoCA. I requested a second, more technical rep, and the guy they sent did know a little about all this, but he was no expert. And since what I'm doing is technically called 'home networking' it is out of their purview to really do anything about it. But he was inquisitive and I showed him what I learned through research and various forums, etc.

I agree that the MoCA network is set up properly, since it works very well without the X1 on there. Reading through forums it seems I'm not the only one who has a problem with the X1 and their MoCA setup. Some people can't even get it to work at all with the X1 on there.
Yea, I don't have any direct experience with the X1 box but I understand that it seems to have more than its fair share of problems on a network.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
I don't have a lot of options with the schematic given the setup of my cabling, but I can try what you suggested without too much effort.
I don't have any reason to believe it will be different, but it won't hurt to try and it would check off that box.


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Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
A member in another forum suggested this: Place an additional POE filter on the cable input to the X1. Since I don't need that X1 to communicate with any other boxes in the house, and since we know the interference is coming solely from that X1, maybe we can block any signals that may be affecting the network speed. I have an extra POE filter, so I can easily give this a try too.
You could give it a try but I don't think it would make a difference. The MoCA adapter is modulating the Ethernet I/O to frequencies theoretically not used by the cable box. As far as I know the X1 box does not have built in MoCA so it shouldn't even see the MoCA frequencies unless the X1 is operating in the DOCSIS 3.1 range. POE filters are directional so it would have to be installed with that consideration on the input of the X1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RGonyeau View Post
With the current configuration, I do get top speed off anything plugged directly into my router. It is only the speed test on the computer that is wired through MoCA (bottom of my diagram) that receives a throttled speed when the X1 is hooked up.
That makes sense as anything plugged directly to the router has a direct link to the modem and has not gone through the MoCA adaptor or its network.

Don't know what to tell you... I'm using the Actiontec ECB6200's along with some older Netgear 1001v1's which are MoCA version 1.1. I can get a slowdown where the Netgear 1001v1 is placed but anywhere else the ECB6200 is, it supports higher speeds of MoCA 2.0.

The only other thing that I could suggest is to split the cable before the POE filter and run a dedicated cable(s) to the X1 boxes. And that kind of brings you back to the idea of putting a POE filter on the input of the X1 box.
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post #11 of 11 Old 02-07-2018, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay folks, just a quick update: As a member in another forum suggested, I placed an additional filter on the input to the X1 cable box. I ran a speed test and I am now able to get full speed with the X1 on the line, and a POE filter at the cable point of entry to the house. This is the first time I've been able to get the full speed with everything on the line at the same time.


In my schematic, the X1 is the box at the top of the diagram (upstairs). I have another non-X1 cable box in the basement (bottom of the diagram). If the cable box in the basement was another X1, I do believe the additional filter I placed on the upstairs X1 would prevent the two boxes from communicating with one another, and therefore eliminating extra features like whole-house DVR, etc. But since I don't really need that functionality, this solution should hold up for now.


Sometimes I do need to swap the boxes and place the X1 in the basement (essentially on the other end of the MoCA network). I don't know if this solution will hold up when I do, but I'll be testing that when I get home later. In theory it should still work.


Another issue I was having was occasional signal drop on the basement end of the MoCA network. I'm hoping this was due to not having a POE filter on the cable entry point to the house. I have read that my Actiontec adapters did have previous problems with signal drops, but a firmware update that shipped with my model was said to have fixed that. Time will tell.



This has been a crazy adventure. I'm about $200 into all this now, between the MoCA adapters, various splitters, etc. so I'm hoping the adventure is at an end, lol. I'll keep updating as I learn more.
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