Apple TV tvOS public beta releases - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Which beta? I've switched to 12.0b1 which is working and previously 11.4.1b2 was working with iTunes. 11.4.1b3 (15M5071b) was released to developers yesterday so it may be in the public channel at this point.
beta 2. i will try beta 3. maybe i need to reset.

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post #422 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 10:46 AM
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Developer beta 12 is out with Atmos
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post #423 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
Developer beta 12 is out with Atmos


Yep and I think this is a new setting section right?



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post #424 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
Developer beta 12 is out with Atmos
Can you say something about the implementation ? Is decoding done on the ATV or is there an option to the let the receiver do it via passthru ?

Decoding in the ATV makes no sense to me, the ATV does not not know the speaker setup. Amazon does it as well, but it is a lousy solution. Think Amazon offers you 7.1 PCM via HDMI or 5.1 (= core) via passthru.

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post #425 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
I posted in the wrong thread. Reposting here:

On the beta, are movies labeled Atmos? If so, anything I can test? I have close to 500 4K on the iTunes account I'm on that I can try.

I attached the version I'm on, if that helps. Is that the version that does iTunes Atmos?
Someone from the other thread mentioned Blade Runner 2049 and Hacksaw Ridge.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...l#post56366472
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post #426 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 01:43 PM
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Good to hear about atmos. Can’t wait for some impressions.


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post #427 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
Developer beta 12 is out with Atmos
^This. Which means pubic beta coming soon, not sure if it'll be tomorrow or next week.
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post #428 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Someone from the other thread mentioned Blade Runner 2049 and Hacksaw Ridge.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...l#post56366472


List of DV and Atmos
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1505495519
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post #429 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by loekf View Post
Can you say something about the implementation ? Is decoding done on the ATV or is there an option to the let the receiver do it via passthru ?

Decoding in the ATV makes no sense to me, the ATV does not not know the speaker setup. Amazon does it as well, but it is a lousy solution. Think Amazon offers you 7.1 PCM via HDMI or 5.1 (= core) via passthru.

Atmos is bitstreamed.

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post #430 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
Atmos is bitstreamed.
So, are you getting a DD+ signal in your AVR then?

I think the real question for developers here is, how is it being implemented? Is Apple decoding the DD+ Atmos, mixing system sounds, then re-encoding a DD+ Atmos bitstream, (or something else), or is Apple passing the audio from the content directly through?
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post #431 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Someone from the other thread mentioned Blade Runner 2049 and Hacksaw Ridge.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post56366472
Hi, I can confirm BR 2049, John Wick 2, and Mad Max Fury Road all show ATMOS when playing now. As far as I can tell, they don't show ATMOS on the movie listing in iTunes (maybe I am missing it).

So far it sounds pretty good. As before, the master volume needs to be increased to have it be as loud as a bluray. It is variable, BR 2049 needs to be boosted more than John Wick 2, for example. Odd.
Mark

[EDIT--to avoid confusion, per a comment below, I am in the developer program and am using the developer TVos 12 beta 2]
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post #432 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
Nice, they updated that quick!
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post #433 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Nice, they updated that quick!
When I took a look it was missing some ATMOS ones that I found. I suspect the ATMOS additions are going to continue coming.

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post #434 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by markmanner View Post
When I took a look it was missing some ATMOS ones that I found. I suspect the ATMOS additions are going to continue coming.


Probably since iTunes isn’t updated yet someone will have to try each title to check.

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post #435 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 03:11 PM
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Re: iTunes is bitstreaming Atmos.

Is this the same as True HD? I'm not afraid to look stupid in asking, so please educate me.

If it's not True HD, how does iTunes Atmos content differ from the DD+ version Netflix and Vudu offers?
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post #436 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 03:12 PM
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I believe to be clear- Apple has not released ANY TVOS 12 betas to the public testers as they are still releasing 11.4 betas as of this week.
The person above must be in the DEV program to get the 12 betas.
It would be nice if the public beta people would get 12 but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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post #437 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
Re: iTunes is bitstreaming Atmos.

Is this the same as True HD? I'm not afraid to look stupid in asking, so please educate me.

If it's not True HD, how does iTunes Atmos content differ from the DD+ version Netflix and Vudu offers?

itunes atmos is the same as what other streaming services offer. TrueHD is lossless audio. Atmos is metadata that can be with lossless Dolby TrueHD found on discs or lossy DD+ found in streaming. itunes is using DD+ with it's atmos, same as any other streaming service.



DTS:X is the DTS equivalent of Atmos but is not found in streaming, just discs. DTS-MA HD is the lossless version of DTS similar to Dolby TrueHD.

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post #438 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 04:14 PM
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Posted on the firecore forums from a user:


"For what it's worth, utilizing tvOS 12 beta 2 and Infuse Pro, my receiver does indicate Dolby Atmos when watching a TrueHD 7.1/Atmos movie. When playing the same movie on Plex using the nvidia Shield, it indicates Dolby Atmos-TrueHD 7.1. I'm not sure why it displays differently or if it means anything...
In Infuse, when setting audio output to "Passthrough", I get no audio, though when it is set to "Auto" I do get audio indicating Atmos - the audio has a delay when starting (several seconds after the video starts), but is in synch. Hope this info helps someone."
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post #439 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's debug data for Paddington 2, Blade Runner 2049 and The Martian. I'm not getting Atmos on BR 2049 which is an iTunes purchase. Atmos (P2) is getting notably more bandwidth than non-Atmos (Martian) E-AC-3. Perhaps the conversion is not yet complete across the Apple CDN.
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post #440 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Here's debug data for Paddington 2, Blade Runner 2049 and The Martian. I'm not getting Atmos on BR 2049 which is an iTunes purchase. Atmos (P2) is getting notably more bandwidth than non-Atmos (Martian) E-AC-3. Perhaps the conversion is not yet complete across the Apple CDN.
That atmos audio bitrate is nuts! Typically you'd see 192kbps for DD+ on netflix. Though according to another poster who provided the same data Netflix DD is 320kbps. That the bitrate in your P2 photo is so high makes me think it could be lossless.
I rip all my movies and can tell you the total audio file size from lossy to lossless is about double. Same as the bitrate you're posting.

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Last edited by archer75; 06-19-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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post #441 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
Posted on the firecore forums from a user:


"For what it's worth, utilizing tvOS 12 beta 2 and Infuse Pro, my receiver does indicate Dolby Atmos when watching a TrueHD 7.1/Atmos movie. When playing the same movie on Plex using the nvidia Shield, it indicates Dolby Atmos-TrueHD 7.1. I'm not sure why it displays differently or if it means anything...
In Infuse, when setting audio output to "Passthrough", I get no audio, though when it is set to "Auto" I do get audio indicating Atmos - the audio has a delay when starting (several seconds after the video starts), but is in synch. Hope this info helps someone."
This is huge!! If true this means either hd audio is getting passed through or atv is converting to DD+/Atmos which would be odd. Can’t wait to find out how this pans out.

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post #442 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 05:28 PM
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That atmos audio bitrate is nuts! Typically you'd see 192kbps for DD+ on netflix. Though according to another poster who provided the same data Netflix DD is 320kbps. That the bitrate in your P2 photo is so high makes me think it could be lossless.
I rip all my movies and can tell you the total audio file size from lossy to lossless is about double. Same as the bitrate you're posting.
Agree those are very high bitrates. Maybe Apple is finally stepping up the audio quality and trying to compete with Vudu and physical media. While it’s still lossy, DD+ can be encoded at high bitrates and could likely compete with lossless audio if high enough. Very interesting.

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post #443 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
This is huge!! If true this means either hd audio is getting passed through or atv is converting to DD+/Atmos which would be odd. Can’t wait to find out how this pans out.
Being infuse handling it I would say it's bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD with atmos. I imagine though that without atmos it would do the same thing itunes is doing without atmos, PCM.

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post #444 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Agree those are very high bitrates. Maybe Apple is finally stepping up the audio quality and trying to compete with Vudu and physical media. While it’s still lossy, DD+ can be encoded at high bitrates and could likely compete with lossless audio if high enough. Very interesting.
The spec for DD+ allows bitrate up to 6400kbps. Which is well beyond what lossless is doing now. Even at the same bitrate lossless would still be better.



I would like to see comparisons against other streaming services that do atmos.

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post #445 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
Being infuse handling it I would say it's bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD with atmos. I imagine though that without atmos it would do the same thing itunes is doing without atmos, PCM.
Well if it passed through lossless atmos but non-atmos HD audio was decoded to PCM as infuse does now that still works for me. I think DTS:X is rather unlikely though.

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post #446 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Well if it passed through lossless atmos but non-atmos HD audio was decoded to PCM as infuse does now that still works for me. I think DTS:X is rather unlikely though.


I agree.

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post #447 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 07:33 PM
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I just tested VUDU on my ATV 4K, and it too is now playing ATMOS (on the VUDU titles that have it) through the ATV 4K. So, not limited to itunes movies.
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post #448 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post
The spec for DD+ allows bitrate up to 6400kbps. Which is well beyond what lossless is doing now.
TrueHD allows 18Mb and DTS:MA allows 24Mb. Looking at the disc that happened to be in the player (SM:Homecoming) I see 2.5 - 8 Mb of audio data so Apple is doing about 15%. The video is much closer as a percent since the disc is about 50Mb (35-90Mb/s).

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post #449 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markmanner View Post
I just tested VUDU on my ATV 4K, and it too is now playing ATMOS
This is encouraging -- has Vudu announced Atmos on the ATV? I'm seeing 14Mb video and 577Kb audio on Jumanji and The Last Jedi.

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post #450 of 2388 Old 06-19-2018, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
TrueHD allows 18Mb and DTS:MA allows 24Mb. Looking at the disc that happened to be in the player (SM:Homecoming) I see 2.5 - 8 Mb of audio data so Apple is doing about 15%. The video is much closer as a percent since the disc is about 50Mb (35-90Mb/s).


Allows for, yes. But in reality I’m seeing 4-5Mbs on my UHD rips.

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