Apple TV tvOS public beta releases - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
I believe that Vudu limits their Atmos content to their UHD level for movies. It will be interesting to see how Apple implements this on their end, or if Vudu will become the streaming source for the Apple TV for Disney/Star Wars in Atmos until Apple and Disney work out their UHD issues (assuming they do with Disney working on their own streaming service). Since some non-UHD Blu-ray discs come with Atmos today, I don't see why a streaming version couldn't come with it as well.
I get it its a money grab.. but I honestly cant afford a projector upgrade (I got 5 kids) to 4k right now and I believe there have to be a large percentage of 1080p projector owners out there who have a atmos setup as well...hoping one of the companies play nice with us, thanks for the info I am almost ready to dump my roku ultra for a 4k apple tv.
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post #572 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart628 View Post
I hate to ask but I Have to...couple questions for public beta

is zero sign on working for charter?

do you get atmos when playing a 1080p source from vudu or do they have it standard across the board no atmos unless on a UHD stream...thank you in advance for those of us with 1080p projectors but atmos sound systems.
I believe that Vudu limits their Atmos content to their UHD level for movies. It will be interesting to see how Apple implements this on their end, or if Vudu will become the streaming source for the Apple TV for Disney/Star Wars in Atmos until Apple and Disney work out their UHD issues (assuming they do with Disney working on their own streaming service). Since some non-UHD Blu-ray discs come with Atmos today, I don't see why a streaming version couldn't come with it as well.
At the WWDC they had HD titles on display with Atmos from iTunes. Gravity, for one.
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post #573 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:04 AM
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Dolby Atmos coming to AppleTV4ks but how does it get implemented ?..

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post #574 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by stuart628 View Post
I get it its a money grab.. but I honestly cant afford a projector upgrade (I got 5 kids) to 4k right now and I believe there have to be a large percentage of 1080p projector owners out there who have a atmos setup as well...hoping one of the companies play nice with us, thanks for the info I am almost ready to dump my roku ultra for a 4k apple tv.
Once you get your Apple TV 4K, try to stream a UHD ATMOS title on your 1080P projector. I believe you'll get the downscaled 1080P video but you should still get ATMOS sound.

UHD codes are regularly on sale for as low as $5 on Itunes these days. Plus you can get HD codes that redeem in UHD on the secondary market for even less.
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post #575 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:36 AM
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Dolby Atmos coming to AppleTV4ks but how does it get implemented ?..
What do you mean? It is in the beta and on select titles right now.
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post #576 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
What do you mean? It is in the beta and on select titles right now.


I think he just like me wants to know if the Atmos functionality is a sort of bitstream option while playing back the back upped Blu-ray with Atmos support via Infuse or Plex.

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post #577 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
I think he just like me wants to know if the Atmos functionality is a sort of bitstream option while playing back the back upped Blu-ray with Atmos support via Infuse or Plex.
I haven't tested that but it does play back bitstreamed (which is required for Atmos) via iTunes and Vudu currently, so there should be no reason Infuse and Plex couldn't support it since Vudu is a 3rd party app.
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post #578 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
In Audio settings you can change from Best Quality or Available (I forgot what they call it ) to Convert format and if you have Atmos you can change it to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you change it to Convert but leave Atmos set to off, what does the ATV send out? DD+ bitstream?

I have an Atmos AVR (denon s930h) but only a 5.1 setup for now. Really would like to be able to bitstream DD+ from ATV. Probably should just bite the bullet and add a couple speakers for Atmos, just not really wanting to put holes in my ceiling.

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post #579 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart628 View Post
I get it its a money grab.. but I honestly cant afford a projector upgrade (I got 5 kids) to 4k right now and I believe there have to be a large percentage of 1080p projector owners out there who have a atmos setup as well...hoping one of the companies play nice with us, thanks for the info I am almost ready to dump my roku ultra for a 4k apple tv.
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Once you get your Apple TV 4K, try to stream a UHD ATMOS title on your 1080P projector. I believe you'll get the downscaled 1080P video but you should still get ATMOS sound.

UHD codes are regularly on sale for as low as $5 on Itunes these days. Plus you can get HD codes that redeem in UHD on the secondary market for even less.
I'm thinking this may work. You can certainly play a UHD movie in 4K and not Atmos, so why not the other way around? You would just have to purchase or rent the higher quality version (UHD). But those can be had cheap if you watch for the deals. I purchase mine when they go on sale for $4.99.

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post #580 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
If you change it to Convert but leave Atmos set to off, what does the ATV send out? DD+ bitstream?

I have an Atmos AVR (denon s930h) but only a 5.1 setup for now. Really would like to be able to bitstream DD+ from ATV. Probably should just bite the bullet and add a couple speakers for Atmos, just not really wanting to put holes in my ceiling.
I believe Atmos at a minimum requires DD+ bitstreaming. The original core DD codec doesn't support the metadata required for Atmos. Also Atmos decoding must happen in the main AV processor at this time otherwise you would have to define your speaker layout setup for each source component that provides Atmos. In general it is easier and more cost effective for the source to only bitstream the compressed audio data. It means you only need one decoder in the chain as opposed to the earlier days of BD where you had multiple source components that had full blown decoders built-in. Really they only did that for the ability to mix audio with the selected tracks but it wasn't ever fully realized. For the most part it was used to insert button sounds and many players wouldn't play back the lossless tracks if you had secondary audio features enabled.

Also if you only have a 5.1 setup there is nothing wrong with playing back an Atmos track. The decoder will mix those effects into the other channels based on your speaker setup. When your receiver shows Atmos decoding you're at a minimum getting a DD+ based bitstream with Atmos metadata.

If you convert it, the AppleTV will most likely just send PCM instead of re-encoding the converted track back into a stream that requires additional decoding.


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post #581 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Interesting. I tried Deepwater last night on Vudu ... and I got no audio (but receiver indicated 2 ch audio source). Will try again today.
I was able to test and confirm Atmos for:

- Pacific Rim
- Lucy
- Fantastic Beast...
- Jumanji

What I have not done is compare the spatial accuracy when compared to a Blu-Ray of the same title. I don’t have same title in both formats. Anyone else want to test and report back?
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post #582 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Atmos currently (tvOS 12b2) works with iTunes and Vudu with resolution forced to 1080p SDR or HDR. However you should wait until tvOS 12 is released if you want to be sure about the apps you use.
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I hate to ask

do you get atmos when playing a 1080p source from vudu
The answer is still the same.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #583 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Atmos currently (tvOS 12b2) works with iTunes and Vudu with resolution forced to 1080p SDR or HDR. However you should wait until tvOS 12 is released if you want to be sure about the apps you use.
Not sure what you are trying to say about 1080p HDR ... but AFAIK, Atmos only works if you own the 4K UHD version of the title. I have verified that on some Vudu Atmos titles where I only own the HD version and it does not play the Atmos stream.
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post #584 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
If you change it to Convert but leave Atmos set to off, what does the ATV send out?
Convert on is the same as the prior BQA off. You then have to select either AC-3 or stereo, i.e. what it converts to.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #585 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:32 AM
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Apple TV tvOS public beta releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Convert on is the same as the prior BQA off. You then have to select either AC-3 or stereo, i.e. what it converts to.


So, can you turn convert off and get a DD+ bitstream for those of us without Atmos speakers?

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post #586 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
So, can you turn concert off and get a DD+ bitstream for those of us without Atmos speakers?
If you have an Atmos decoder with no Atmos speakers it should still get a DD+ stream with Atmos metadata. The Atmos audio will be mixed accordingly based on your speaker setup.

If you have a legacy DD+ decoder you should still get the DD+ stream with the Atmos metadata ignored. Atmos is really just metadata included in the DD+ or TrueHD streams at least at this point for the consumer level version. I have BDs with DD-TrueHD Atmos tracks and I was able to play those back on legacy DolbyTrueHD decoders without Atmos. I would suspect the same is true with DD+ with Atmos.

You're not doing anything wrong if you decode Atmos with no overhead or Atmos speaker modules. The decoder will know what to do if the speaker layout is not defined for the Atmos channels.

When your decoder indicates Atmos decoding, it's not doing anything special really other than indicating it received a flag that the audio stream has Atmos metadata. The core track is still DD+ or DD-TrueHD. I don't know if there is such a thing as Atmos only track where it is all object based at the consumer level at this point.


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post #587 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 12:00 PM
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I was able to get Atmos in iTunes movies. Blade runner 2049,Lucy, pacific rim Uprising until about 30 minutes ago than now just 5.1 Urdu still getting Atmos. Even did a restart . Just mentioning this. Understanding this is beta I’m sure it will improve. Was nice when working.

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post #588 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
If you have an Atmos decoder with no Atmos speakers it should still get a DD+ stream with Atmos metadata. The Atmos audio will be mixed accordingly based on your speaker setup.

If you don't have an Atmos decoder you should still get the DD+ stream with the Atmos metadata ignored. Atmos is really just metadata included in the DD+ or TrueHD streams at least at this point for the consumer level version. I have BDs with DD-TrueHD Atmos tracks and I was able to play those back on legacy Dolby decoders without Atmos. I would suspect the same is true with DD+ with Atmos.

You're not doing anything wrong if you decode Atmos with no overhead or Atmos speaker modules. The decoder will know what to do if the speaker layout is not defined for the Atmos channels.
Not sure this is true for all AVRs but at least with Denon you have to have at least 2 front height/atmos/ceiling speakers configured for the Atmos track to be decoded otherwise it drops down to the core DD+ track and I believe the metadata is ignored.

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post #589 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Not sure this is true for all AVRs but at least with Denon you have to have at least 2 front height/atmos/ceiling speakers configured for the Atmos track to be decoded otherwise it drops down to the core DD+ track and I believe the metadata is ignored.
That's what I'm saying. The metadata is only accounted for if the speaker setup indicates Atmos speakers are connected. The Atmos audio is already in the main channels. The metadata can contain information about moving certain embedded objects to other speakers based on the configuration. Dolby claims nothing is thrown away when tracks with Atmos are played on legacy equipment. The original DD+ and TrueHD algorithms contained space for metadata that was reserved for future use (i.e. Atmos). It's why the Atmos format is backwards compatible with the codecs from the mid-2000s.

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post #590 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by umenon View Post
I was able to test and confirm Atmos for:



- Pacific Rim

- Lucy

- Fantastic Beast...

- Jumanji



What I have not done is compare the spatial accuracy when compared to a Blu-Ray of the same title. I don’t have same title in both formats. Anyone else want to test and report back?

It’s not even close to the dynamism of an Atmos track on either a Blu-ray or UHD disc. It is a slight upgrade on the 5.1 PCM tracks and that’s about all you could say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #591 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post
That's what I'm saying. The metadata is only accounted for if the speaker setup indicates Atmos speakers are connected. The Atmos audio is already in the main channels. The metadata can contain information about moving certain embedded objects to other speakers based on the configuration. Dolby claims nothing is thrown away when tracks with Atmos are played on legacy equipment. The original DD+ and TrueHD algorithms contained space for metadata that was reserved for future use (i.e. Atmos). It's why the Atmos format is backwards compatible with the codecs from the mid-2000s.
Ok so we are on the same page. Without the metadata I don't think there would be much difference compared to any old DD+ or TrueHD track other than differences in how they are mixed. If it was allowed, however, I'd bet decoding of atmos even to a 5.1 setup would sound better with better object placement even without any heights. I'm assuming it's not allowed to help promote Atmos speaker sales or they just don't want people to have a half way Atmos experience and be turned away.

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post #592 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
So, can you turn concert off and get a DD+ bitstream for those of us without Atmos speakers?
I don't know but I would guess not. But perhaps I don't understand the question.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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Last edited by bodosom; 06-26-2018 at 01:47 PM.
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post #593 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 02:22 PM
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I was able to grab Atmos from Rampage Vudu. I will say it would not pass through the Oppo 203 so I ended up going through the Marantz 8805 first (I am Reviewing one) which at first I could not get HDR to work. After going into the set up menu on the Marantz and changing HDMI to ENHANCED All was good. Getting HDR and Atmos. This is with the public beta 12.0. Tonight I will load the Developer latest and play around more with iTunes titles.
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post #594 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 02:41 PM
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Updated and left mine on Auto/Atmos under audio. I do not have an Atmos setup, but when I watched my owned Last Jedi in Vudu the Yamaha A3060 showed Atmos on the front, sounded fine.

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post #595 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 03:06 PM
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Just a warning for people considering this first tvOS 12 public beta. I found the Computers app (for playing from a remote iTunes library using Home Sharing) to be basically unusable. Wrong artwork displayed if you shuffle, songs stop and kick back out to computer selection menu after 10 seconds etc. If you care about that you may want to wait a release or two. I hooked up an old AppleTV 4 with the release software to play my music/videos for now.

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post #596 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Thank you. FYI, it’s the same build as the newest developer beta.
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This is with the public beta 12.0. Tonight I will load the Developer latest and play around more with iTunes titles.
As noted they're the same at the moment. Although past performance is not a predictor of future performance beta-1 and beta-2 were two weeks apart.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #597 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 04:53 PM
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Updated and tried several Vudu movies. My receiver - Yamaha RX-A760, will briefly show Dolby TrueHD, then it will display Atmos. The beginning of Man of Steel sounds very good, and I can tell the difference during the opening scenes when the Kryptonian ships are flying all over. Looking forward to more tweaking...
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post #598 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 05:29 PM
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Installed and tried blade runner 2049. It’s NOT working in iTunes but it turning on atmos in vudu app. The Matrix shows atmos on vudu I but I get no audio when I tried it in the vudu app. Wonder Woman also worked in vudu.

Seems iTunes isn’t working anymore right now.
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post #599 of 2100 Old 06-26-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Installed and tried blade runner 2049. It’s NOT working in iTunes but it turning on atmos in vudu app. The Matrix shows atmos on vudu I but I get no audio when I tried it in the vudu app. Wonder Woman also worked in vudu.

Seems iTunes isn’t working anymore right now.
I can confirm I am seeing the same thing with Blade Runner 2049 via iTunes, it is playing back in LPCM and not Atmos.
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post #600 of 2100 Old 06-27-2018, 04:47 AM
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You would think that Apple with all the RD & big iTune library money figure out the sound by now but they're light yrs away from it .

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