Apple TV tvOS public beta releases - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1902 Old 02-13-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
No I don't consider Zohn an authoritative spokesman for any manufacturer. I'm sure Sony doesn't consider him to be one.

In any case not only is there no mention of latency in the Dolby Vision Profiles and Levels (DVPL) document, the only direct reference to reduced processing is FEL vs. MEL. MEL is new in the 1.2.92 DVPL which led to speculation that profile 4/MEL was the "low latency" profile Zohn referenced. Of course, as you note, a single stream profile (5 or 8) would presumably be lowest overhead.

I assume you're unaware that Apple has always used profile 5.
"Video Formats ... HEVC Dolby Vision (Profile 5)/HDR10 (Main 10 profile) up to 2160p ..."

My current idle speculation is that Sony wants profile 8 and Dolby introduced sufficient flexibility/ambiguity in the spec that two validated instances are slightly out of sync or, like the "elevated" black issue, there are some required decoder tweaks.
It’s not just Sony though. There are several links from manufacturers related to the “low latency” DV profile. Here’s one from Onkyo but there are several others.
http://www.intl.onkyo.com/support/fi.../tx-nr474.html

“As of 30 October 2017
Adds support for new multi-room audio playback function "FlareConnect".
*All audio devices in group and "Onkyo Controller" App is required to update to the latest version.
Setup Guide: www.intl.onkyo.com/next_generation/setup.html
Introduction of multi-room audio functions: www.intl.onkyo.com/next_generation
Adds support for low-latency mode of Dolby Vision signal.”

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post #62 of 1902 Old 02-14-2018, 04:43 PM
 
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"Releasing buggy beta software is not a sign of poor quality control since catching bugs is what it’s for. "

Didn't say it was. Said not being able to go back to a more stable beta when a beta is crap is.

"Or at least wait until they’re closer to public release. "

You mean like wait the hour between the releases?

The problem isn't the beta's. The problem is not being able to back out of one when its crap.

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post #63 of 1902 Old 02-14-2018, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post
"Releasing buggy beta software is not a sign of poor quality control since catching bugs is what it’s for. "



Didn't say it was. Said not being able to go back to a more stable beta when a beta is crap is.



"Or at least wait until they’re closer to public release. "



You mean like wait the hour between the releases?



The problem isn't the beta's. The problem is not being able to back out of one when its crap.


No.... I meant wait until it’s closer to full release. I.e. wait until beta release 6 or 7. Installing the second beta release is asking for trouble. Still way too early in the bug catching phase at that stage.


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post #64 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 07:51 AM
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There have been several posts on the main thread expressing an opinion something like DV is dark and lacks "pop" with the "low latency". I do find it darker than the organic Netflix app on my Z9D. However, I also find the ATV4K Amazon app HDR10 darker than what's on my Roku Ultra Amazon App. In fact, the only function for which I prefer the Roku over the ATV4K is for Amazon HDR10. Both sources go through my Denon and use the same HDMI port and settings on my Z9D.

I've only had the ATV for a couple weeks. For longer term users, do you find HDR10 darker with this beta; or is it consistent with prior firmware versions?
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post #65 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I've only had the ATV for a couple weeks. For longer term users, do you find HDR darker with this beta; or is it consistent with prior firmware versions?
There have been reports of "dark/dim" output compared to other sources but I haven't noticed any consistency. While I haven't done extensive comparisons I don't find any obvious luminance differences between internal (LG) and external (ATV/UHD-BD) sources. I think of the Sony release (late as it was) as beta code. Of the HDMI sources I'm familiar with only CCU, ATV and OPPO have been in service long enough to be considered mature.
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post #66 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
There have been reports of "dark/dim" output compared to other sources but I haven't noticed any consistency. While I haven't done extensive comparisons I don't find any obvious luminance differences between internal (LG) and external (ATV/UHD-BD) sources. I think of the Sony release (late as it was) as beta code. Of the HDMI sources I'm familiar with only CCU, ATV and OPPO have been in service long enough to be considered mature.
Thanks. If it makes any difference, I've edited my original to reflect a question regarding HDR10 vice just HDR.

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post #67 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
There have been reports of "dark/dim" output compared to other sources but I haven't noticed any consistency. While I haven't done extensive comparisons I don't find any obvious luminance differences between internal (LG) and external (ATV/UHD-BD) sources. I think of the Sony release (late as it was) as beta code. Of the HDMI sources I'm familiar with only CCU, ATV and OPPO have been in service long enough to be considered mature.


There isn’t any difference in my setup on the latest beta. I think a lot of people are comparing their built in app vs HDMI input but the variable not discussed is that settings should be different for both cases until you’ve measured with a meter both inputs you don’t know exactly what’s happening. I can say for several tvs that I’ve owned the built in apps are quite different than the signal via HDMI i.e. color, motion and etc.
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post #68 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 11:12 AM
 
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“Still way to early.....”

I agree. Which is also why there should be a way to go backwards to previous beta or release version.

I understand the risk with beta’s. The risk should not mean “stuck” at the same time.

The problem is being stuck.
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post #69 of 1902 Old 02-16-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post
“Still way to early.....”



I agree. Which is also why there should be a way to go backwards to previous beta or release version.



I understand the risk with beta’s. The risk should not mean “stuck” at the same time.



The problem is being stuck.


Lol. Roll on the next beta so we can get some peace. Probably about 5 days to go.


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post #70 of 1902 Old 02-17-2018, 06:40 PM
 
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Sorry no new beta yet.
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post #71 of 1902 Old 02-17-2018, 11:49 PM
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Sorry no new beta yet.


They generally come out between Tuesday and Thursday every fortnight.


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post #72 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 10:02 AM
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Sounds like they just seeded the 3rd Beta for developers today. Hopefully public release tomorrow or next day of the 3rd beta.
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post #73 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 10:51 AM
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Sounds like they just seeded the 3rd Beta for developers today. Hopefully public release tomorrow or next day of the 3rd beta.
Just installed it 11.3 (15L5186e). So far so good testing HDR and DV. 😀

Love to know what you guys think when you get it.

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post #74 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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The 15L5186e release notes don't mention any significant quality improvements.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #75 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Just installed it 11.3 (15L5186e). So far so good testing HDR and DV. 😀

Love to know what you guys think when you get it.
Thanks for the heads up. Did they fix the brightness compared to the built in apps on your Sony TV? The Last beta the Built in Apps were much brighter than the Apple TV version of the same movies in DV.

Thanks
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post #76 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 02:40 PM
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Apple TV tvOS public beta releases

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Thanks for the heads up. Did they fix the brightness compared to the built in apps on your Sony TV? The Last beta the Built in Apps were much brighter than the Apple TV version of the same movies in DV.



Thanks


Comparing Netflix Chasing Coral DV the Sony still looks brighter to me but improved on Netflix ATV4K B3. Having said that I just noticed that the Sony is on Cinema Home and ATV4K Cinema Pro so the settings aren’t the same. Hoping that @kbmb will test that to confirm.
As @bodosom pointed out with beta 2 there was a connection issue with the 11.2.6 iOS Apple TV remote app which “appears” to be working consistently with this new beta.


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post #77 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 03:24 PM
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The 15L5186e release notes don't mention any significant quality improvements.


I read that airplay 2 support was removed even though it was in earlier betas.
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post #78 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 03:30 PM
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Comparing Netflix Chasing Coral DV the Sony still looks brighter to me but improved on Netflix ATV4K B2. Having said that I just noticed that the Sony is on Cinema Home and ATV4K Cinema Pro so the settings aren’t the same. Hoping that @kbmb will test that to confirm.
As @bodosom pointed out with beta 2 there was a connection issue with the 11.2.6 iOS Apple TV remote app which “appears” to be working consistently with this new beta.


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I will definitely check it out once the public beta is released and report back.
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post #79 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 04:21 PM
 
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Hope TNT and VUDU work better.
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post #80 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 05:20 PM
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I will definitely check it out once the public beta is released and report back.


Correction to my post...it’s beta 3.


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post #81 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 07:10 PM
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Comparing Netflix Chasing Coral DV the Sony still looks brighter to me but improved on Netflix ATV4K B3. Having said that I just noticed that the Sony is on Cinema Home and ATV4K Cinema Pro so the settings aren’t the same. Hoping that @kbmb will test that to confirm.
As @bodosom pointed out with beta 2 there was a connection issue with the 11.2.6 iOS Apple TV remote app which “appears” to be working consistently with this new beta.


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Thanks for the update. However when watching DV, they both should be in the Sony DV mode and not Cinema Home and Cinema Pro mode. You will have to check your settings, since they should both show the DV pop up when the video starts and then the Video Mode on the TV should be DV.

Thanks
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post #82 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Comparing Netflix Chasing Coral DV the Sony still looks brighter to me but improved on Netflix ATV4K B3. Having said that I just noticed that the Sony is on Cinema Home and ATV4K Cinema Pro so the settings aren?t the same. Hoping that @kbmb will test that to confirm.
As @bodosom pointed out with beta 2 there was a connection issue with the 11.2.6 iOS Apple TV remote app which ?appears? to be working consistently with this new beta.


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Thanks for the update. However when watching DV, they both should be in the Sony DV mode and not Cinema Home and Cinema Pro mode. You will have to check your settings, since they should both show the DV pop up when the video starts and then the Video Mode on the TV should be DV.

Thanks
Yes, you are correct. It does not matter which picture setting you are on but it does allow some configuration. For example when on the ATV HDMI input I have gamma up high when on DV but on the Sony gamma is 0. It remembers the last setting so long story short my settings may be different between the devices which could account for a difference.

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post #83 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
Yes, you are correct. It does not matter which picture setting you are on but it does allow some configuration. For example when on the ATV HDMI input I have gamma up high when on DV but on the Sony gamma is 0. It remembers the last setting so long story short my settings may be different between the devices which could account for a difference.
Hopefully I will be able to download the newest beta soon and give it a try.
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post #84 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, you are correct. It does not matter which picture setting you are on but it does allow some configuration. For example when on the ATV HDMI input I have gamma up high when on DV but on the Sony gamma is 0. It remembers the last setting so long story short my settings may be different between the devices which could account for a difference.
Hopefully I will be able to download the newest beta soon and give it a try.
I bet you will be able to get it tomorrow. At least that is the way it has been for the first betas. Good luck.

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post #85 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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As @bodosom pointed out with beta 2 there was a connection issue with the 11.2.6 iOS Apple TV remote app
It's working for me with 11.2.6 as well (and presumably with 11.2.5).
The UHD library list is still broken though.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #86 of 1902 Old 02-20-2018, 10:10 PM
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Apple TV tvOS public beta releases

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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post
Hope TNT and VUDU work better.


That’s more likely to require them to update their apps. That’s actually the purpose of the developer betas....to allow software writers to adapt to the changes and get their apps ready for the firmware’s public release. Infuse for example had a major issue with HDR playback with 11.3 but they update their app a week ago so now it works fine with the beta. Other developers aren’t always so responsive unfortunately. It’s not unusual for apps to remain broken throughout the beta period with updated versions coming out on firmware release day, a few days before, or just after.
I’m wondering...are you new to Apple products?
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post #87 of 1902 Old 02-21-2018, 04:29 AM
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Thanks for the heads up. Did they fix the brightness compared to the built in apps on your Sony TV? The Last beta the Built in Apps were much brighter than the Apple TV version of the same movies in DV.



Thanks


I’m guessing Dolby is very involved in the DV part of this update from coding, testing and ultimately certifying. They probably work at a different pace as well.


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post #88 of 1902 Old 02-21-2018, 04:57 AM
 
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"are you new to Apple products?"

Nope. And I disagree that each beta is released to allow developers to update their apps. VUDU hasn't forever.

Whatever it is that either calls to VUDU from Apple's IOS or what VUDU sends to Apple IOS was broken on Apple's part. Vudu because of its NOT updating their app is the one constant in this picture.

VUDU keeps saying they will but they never do.

Breaking stuff is par for beta's. That's on the developer of the beta though. And in this setting that's Apple not the app developers.

Funny though. My observations must be because I'm new to Apple products. Laughed out loud on that one.
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post #89 of 1902 Old 02-21-2018, 05:56 AM
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Apple TV tvOS public beta releases

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"are you new to Apple products?"



Nope. And I disagree that each beta is released to allow developers to update their apps. VUDU hasn't forever.



Whatever it is that either calls to VUDU from Apple's IOS or what VUDU sends to Apple IOS was broken on Apple's part. Vudu because of its NOT updating their app is the one constant in this picture.



VUDU keeps saying they will but they never do.



Breaking stuff is par for beta's. That's on the developer of the beta though. And in this setting that's Apple not the app developers.



Funny though. My observations must be because I'm new to Apple products. Laughed out loud on that one.
Yet this is what Apple state on their developer beta page.

https://developer.apple.com/support/beta-software/

I suppose it’s just that your raising issues which have always been the case for as long as I can remember. Certainly for years Apple has released beta or developer software updates across all devices which are extremely buggy in the early stages and increase in stability prior to release. Indeed, there are clear warnings from Apple advising not to install beta software on your main device. The release schedule is predictable with beta updates within a fortnight of the previous. It’s not unusual for apps to require updates to work with new software and these app updates often arrive en masse around the release date of the final software.

Yet all of this appears surprising to you.


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post #90 of 1902 Old 02-21-2018, 07:00 AM
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The bottomline is that Vudu is a VERY fragmented application and that's on Vudu! However, if you think about all the platforms and environments they're trying to support and the fact that we're in the middle of a new wave of technology... I would expect them to wait for a stable release of the tvOS before committing with an upgraded app.

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