Apple TV 4K lacks support for 24.000 video - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:05 PM
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Thank you for that. In this particular case at least, Apple messed up because this is clearly not a 23.976fps movie. Just watch the first 2 minutes with the kids running. Juddering all over the place. I think they just re-encoded it for streaming at the wrong refresh, thus the issues.

In the end, this may be a separate issue. 24hz material still doesn’t work correctly on the Apple TV 4K.

Thank you again.
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post #62 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:14 PM
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Apple TV 4K lacks support for 24.000 video

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Thank you for that. In this particular case at least, Apple messed up because this is clearly not a 23.976fps movie. Just watch the first 2 minutes with the kids running. Juddering all over the place. I think they just re-encoded it for streaming at the wrong refresh, thus the issues.



In the end, this may be a separate issue. 24hz material still doesn’t work correctly on the Apple TV 4K.



Thank you again.


No problem. I haven’t actually watched it yet, but will be in a few minutes.

Also, just because I was already coming back to post it, here is how Plex reports it:


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post #63 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Thank you for that. In this particular case at least, Apple messed up because this is clearly not a 23.976fps movie. Just watch the first 2 minutes with the kids running. Juddering all over the place. I think they just re-encoded it for streaming at the wrong refresh, thus the issues.



In the end, this may be a separate issue. 24hz material still doesn’t work correctly on the Apple TV 4K.



Thank you again.


Just watched the first few minutes. Yes, something is clearly wrong. The cadence is off and is most noticeable with rapid movement.

No such issues with any 24.000 content I have. I don’t know what the source frame rate was for the film and it was never released anywhere in the world (so far as I can tell) on Blu-Ray. Only streaming services. So there’s no simple way of comparing it to another version.

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post #64 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
Just watched the first few minutes. Yes, something is clearly wrong. The cadence is off and is most noticeable with rapid movement.

No such issues with any 24.000 content I have. I don’t know what the source frame rate was for the film and it was never released anywhere in the world (so far as I can tell) on Blu-Ray. Only streaming services. So there’s no simple way of comparing it to another version.
No, the 24.000 content has different issues - every 41 seconds a frame drop.

Glad you were able to see the issue with this movie. From what I can tell, the original movie might have been recorded at 29.970fps, but I really don't know for sure.

As the distributor of this movie I'd be really miffed at Apple. I wonder how YouTube plays it...

Last edited by WilliamG; 01-01-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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post #65 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:50 PM
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The House That Jack Built - (the new Lars von Trier film) is 24.000fps.
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post #66 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mabuk View Post
The House That Jack Built - (the new Lars von Trier film) is 24.000fps.
2 hours and 35 mins long. Only 226 frame drops in that movie on the Apple TV 4K.

The REALLY ironic thing about this is that the Mac mini supports 24hz (24.000fps), and has done for years and years, but does NOT support 23.976hz. With the Apple TV 4K, it's the other way around. Pretty funny. I understand the hardware between the two devices is very different, but it's still amusing to me.

Dear Apple, please support 23.976hz and 24.000hz. kthxbye.

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post #67 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
So does that mean the UHD is sped up 0.1% from the original Blu-ray?

And yes it takes me right out of the movie, too. My wife knows only too well just how much I shift uncomfortably if a movie skips or drops a frame.

For me it’s hard to take anyone seriously about being enthusiasts when they don’t care about 24hz vs 23.976hz. In that Rambo, for example, it will frame skip 136 times if played on Apple TV. Once every 41 seconds for 93 minutes. That’s NOT acceptable.

But that’s why I use a Vero 4K for my own media. The Apple TV is for streaming TV. I wouldn’t dream of using it for my own media.
Are u renting, buying content/movies/TV shows from Apple on ATV?
If not have u tried using Nvidia Shield? I am just asking out of curiosity as I just purchased it the Shield. Don't own an ATV.
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post #68 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by geronemo3 View Post
Are u renting, buying content/movies/TV shows from Apple on ATV?
If not have u tried using Nvidia Shield? I am just asking out of curiosity as I just purchased it the Shield. Don't own an ATV.
No offence, but this is totally irrelevant to the issue this thread is discussing.
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post #69 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by barong View Post
No offence, but this is totally irrelevant to the issue this thread is discussing.
None taken, just asking him a simple question as I watch a lot of international content as well and I could be looking at ATV in the future.
Don't take it personally if you support Apple.
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post #70 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geronemo3 View Post
Are u renting, buying content/movies/TV shows from Apple on ATV?
If not have u tried using Nvidia Shield? I am just asking out of curiosity as I just purchased it the Shield. Don't own an ATV.
The other person is right - this is massively off topic, but I'll answer once and then we'll get back to the topic at hand.

If the Shield supports 24.000hz playback, these issues won't be present. End of story.

My issue with The Idol is actually unrelated, as we have discovered. Just a bad encode by Apple's Movies/TV team.
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post #71 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sledgehamma View Post
The HUD is absolutely useless when it comes to framerates. It does not state what the framerate of the video is. You need mediainfo for that.


The HUD absolutely shows the frame rate.




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post #72 of 201 Old 01-01-2019, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
The HUD absolutely shows the frame rate.
True, but the "display resolution" line is only showing the hz as a whole number/with no decimal places.
So 23.976 and 24.00 shows up as 24hz in the HUD.
29.97 and 30.00 shows up as 60hz in the HUD (Apple TV doubles the frames for these frame rates).

Netflix has a heap of test patterns at different frame rates just search for "Test Patterns".

https://www.netflix.com/title/80018499
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post #73 of 201 Old 01-02-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barong View Post
True, but the "display resolution" line is only showing the hz as a whole number/with no decimal places.

So 23.976 and 24.00 shows up as 24hz in the HUD.

29.97 and 30.00 shows up as 60hz in the HUD (Apple TV doubles the frames for these frame rates).



Netflix has a heap of test patterns at different frame rates just search for "Test Patterns".



https://www.netflix.com/title/80018499


I was just showing that frame rate is in fact shown in the HUD data. The 24Hz on the display resolution line is my TV’s display info and as you know refresh rate and frame rate are related but two different things.


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post #74 of 201 Old 01-02-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by m_snow View Post
I was just showing that frame rate is in fact shown in the HUD data. The 24Hz on the display resolution line is my TV’s display info and as you know refresh rate and frame rate are related but two different things.
All good - I was just pointing out that it would be nice if the HUD wasn't rounding the refresh rate of the signal it was sending out.

Regardless, hopefully Apple can fix this issue but in the meantime I can either use a different device or disable frame rate matching when watching 24.00hz content.
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post #75 of 201 Old 01-02-2019, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barong View Post
All good - I was just pointing out that it would be nice if the HUD wasn't rounding the refresh rate of the signal it was sending out.

Regardless, hopefully Apple can fix this issue but in the meantime I can either use a different device or disable frame rate matching when watching 24.00hz content.
It's funny, because I agree. At least when watching 24.00hz material at 60hz the judder is consistent!
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post #76 of 201 Old 01-20-2019, 06:00 AM
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Looks like 24.00hz content is becoming more common.
2 new movies released on Netflix this week ( Close and IO) seem to be 24.00hz.
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post #77 of 201 Old 01-20-2019, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barong View Post
Looks like 24.00hz content is becoming more common.
2 new movies released on Netflix this week ( Close and IO) seem to be 24.00hz.
Staggering that Apple hasn’t addressed this yet.
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post #78 of 201 Old 01-23-2019, 06:38 AM
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Staggering that Apple hasn’t addressed this yet.
Why? The vast majority of people either have no clue about it or don't care. People on AVS are nowhere near the norm when it comes to audio and video.

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post #79 of 201 Old 01-24-2019, 12:43 AM
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Why? The vast majority of people either have no clue about it or don't care. People on AVS are nowhere near the norm when it comes to audio and video.
Because it’s not something I’d expect from Apple, and it’s also something ridiculously simple to fix.
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post #80 of 201 Old 01-24-2019, 02:38 AM
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Here’s a question..... why are they all of a sudden changing the standard.....
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post #81 of 201 Old 01-24-2019, 07:59 AM
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Here’s a question..... why are they all of a sudden changing the standard.....
Films are typically shot at 24 fps, not 23.976 fps. For blu-ray they are typically converted to 23.976 fps to accommodate NTSC standards. With more films going straight to streaming services, we are probably going to see more 24 fps content.
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post #82 of 201 Old 01-24-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post
Films are typically shot at 24 fps, not 23.976 fps. For blu-ray they are typically converted to 23.976 fps to accommodate NTSC standards. With more films going straight to streaming services, we are probably going to see more 24 fps content.
I noticed that about half of the Arrow movies I purchased so far at iTunes are 24.000 fps. Is it common for Arrow to use 24.000 fps in their movies even on Blu-ray? I also want to add that these Arrow movies that I purchased at iTunes that are 24.000 fps in iTunes skip frames frequently throughout the movie and I noticed the skipping frames before I knew that they were 24.000 fps.

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post #83 of 201 Old 02-19-2019, 05:05 PM
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If anyone still cares about this issue, I suggest posting feedback here:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html

You can use something like this in the notes:

Currently Apple TV 4K uses frame rate approximation for 24.00hz content, it gets output by the Apple TV at 23.976hz.
This causes playback skips periodically throughout playback.
An example of this content includes Birdbox, IO, Close etc on Netflix, but this is not limited to Netflix as there are also movies on iTunes encoded at 24.00hz frame rate.
I believe that the Apple TV needs to support 24.00hz output, or add in an option to not match frame rates unless it is an exact match. Thanks in advance.
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post #84 of 201 Old 05-08-2019, 04:39 PM
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Ok, so we know the Apple TV doesn’t support 24.000Hz, 30.000Hz, or 60.000Hz output. Does anyone know of any mainstream streaming device in the United States (e.g. Roku, Amazon Fire, Nvidia Shield, Chromecast, etc.) that does support any of those refresh rates?
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post #85 of 201 Old 05-08-2019, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rybo View Post
Ok, so we know the Apple TV doesn’t support 24.000Hz, 30.000Hz, or 60.000Hz output. Does anyone know of any mainstream streaming device in the United States (e.g. Roku, Amazon Fire, Nvidia Shield, Chromecast, etc.) that does support any of those refresh rates?
They typically output at 23.97, 29.97, and 59.94. But devices will usually just round up to 24, 30, and 60 when displaying what the refresh rate is. Or like my Onkyo receiver, will truncate the decimals and just show 23, 29, and 59.
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post #86 of 201 Old 05-09-2019, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rybo View Post
Ok, so we know the Apple TV doesn’t support 24.000Hz, 30.000Hz, or 60.000Hz output. Does anyone know of any mainstream streaming device in the United States (e.g. Roku, Amazon Fire, Nvidia Shield, Chromecast, etc.) that does support any of those refresh rates?
Afaik the Shield supports it just fine. That said, I'm not sure if streaming apps have added the ability to sync frame rates. Its best to ask directly in the shield thread.
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post #87 of 201 Old 05-14-2019, 06:49 PM
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Hey everyone,


I bought an Apple TV 4K recently, knowing this limitation (having researched before), because I thought the 24.000 fps content would be minimal, but I've just found out it's a not-insignificant amount, at least on Netflix. A lot of the European films and TV shows are, like Dark, and even movies like Bird Box, like someone else mentioned earlier. Other stuff I just saw includes the Korean films Burning and Train to Busan, and the new Ultraman series. You can check easily what framerate the content is on the browsers or the Windows 10 app by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Alt+D.


As far as I found out, the Shield TV does have support for refresh rate switching, but the apps need to support it, and Netflix doesn't. Apparently Netflix only supports that on the Apple TV and Roku.


The semi-good news is that I came to an Apple TV from a Roku Ultra (2016) because it has the exact opposite issue, it can only switch to 24.000, and can't do 23.976. The weird thing is that it does 59.94 but not 60.000 fps. So maybe you can use a Roku if you have one for 24.000 content.



As far as I know, there's no streaming device that can do Netflix and use both refresh rates.
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post #88 of 201 Old 05-14-2019, 11:32 PM
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In built Netflix apps on smart TVs will probably be the best bet for this issue. The one on my LG Oled can handle anything you chuck at it.


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post #89 of 201 Old 05-14-2019, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Stirling View Post
In built Netflix apps on smart TVs will probably be the best bet for this issue. The one on my LG Oled can handle anything you chuck at it.


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I second this on my LG OLED. Unfortunately no good way with my projector...
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post #90 of 201 Old 05-15-2019, 06:22 AM
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Still rocking a Pioneer KRP-500M here, doesn't even have its own tuner or speakers. I was waiting until the whole HDMI 2.1 thing settled a bit, maybe this year I'll be able to get an LG OLED finally, but I also need to upgrade my AVR and graphics card so it's gonna be pretty expensive, plus so far there are no HDMI 2.1 AVR or cards announced. The AVR is essential cause my current one doesn't even do ARC so no way to use it with a 4k TV.
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