When will streaming kill the disc?? - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 05:06 AM
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I’m more than a bit concerned about the future of 4k discs. The percent penetration numbers are abysmal and with all the Xboxes sold over the past few years there are more than enough 4k players on the market.


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post #332 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I don't see how when DVDs still are king. DVD still has more sales that BD or UHD BD. When most people still by DVDs, there is not much incentive to end them as long as discs are being produced.

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No I get that they are still popular but I don't understand it. I get everyone is not an avs member.

But everyone has an HDTV. I know a lot of senior citizens and even they have flat screens. BD players are pretty cheap for a basic one.


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post #333 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
No I get that they are still popular but I don't understand it. I get everyone is not an avs member.

But everyone has an HDTV. I know a lot of senior citizens and even they have flat screens. BD players are pretty cheap for a basic one.


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My wife would happily watch a dvd on our 12’ wide screen if I would let her.


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post #334 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 09:00 AM
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I don't understand DVD sales (except possibly from bargain bins at Walmart & others). Rentals, yes. And most movies don't require high-def. If there's a movie that seems like it has good visuals, I'll see it in a theater. For most movies, standard def on my home TV is good enough.

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post #335 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 09:56 AM
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My wife would happily watch a dvd on our 12’ wide screen if I would let her.


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Lol yes I know some like that. My wife talks like that but after a while she appreciates the upgrades.
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post #336 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
I’m more than a bit concerned about the future of 4k discs. The percent penetration numbers are abysmal and with all the Xboxes sold over the past few years there are more than enough 4k players on the market.


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Movies are not a priority for gamers, Xbox is mainly a console gaming device. People buy then to play games.
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post #337 of 360 Old 07-19-2019, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post
I don't understand DVD sales (except possibly from bargain bins at Walmart & others). Rentals, yes. And most movies don't require high-def. If there's a movie that seems like it has good visuals, I'll see it in a theater. For most movies, standard def on my home TV is good enough.

standard Def is so 20th Century
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post #338 of 360 Old 07-20-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitchatjf View Post
standard Def is so 20th Century
So am I.
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post #339 of 360 Old 07-21-2019, 11:18 AM
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LOL crabboy. I understand where you're coming from. The thing for me is while SD still gets the point across, my televisions have more room than 480p so I feel like I'm wasting space watching it that way.
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post #340 of 360 Old 05-16-2020, 11:25 PM
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Discussing Blu Ray in 2020 compared to streaming Netflix,Hulu and other

So are blu rays worth it in 2020

As far as i think if you are a bit rate geek who watches every pixel closely and have funds go buy them. Bitrate of blu rays cannot be matched by any other service But in a realistic world for most casual users Streaming services are great They are affordable and in 3rd world countries netflix runs for $3 ish

So is it worth getting them,ripping them,uploading to hdd and plexify them,for most users it is a no go but for geeks and users and collectors and archiever who love this and want to own their own media go ahed i support you

As for rest of casual watchers who want to settle for best Amazon has Highest bitrate i have seen and it looks pretty good on a 65 inch screen and 4k UHD titles are another world

Even with netflix Title After Life as per plex it has a bitrate of 15Mbps of 4k version (strangely netflix is streaming that spific title in 1080p for me) but the HDR really makes colours pop out

My tiny Vlog about blu rays

youtu.be/0DOg3mXl040

in here you can see Netflix in Turkey offering basic plan at just $3
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post #341 of 360 Old 05-17-2020, 12:19 AM
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They are worth it if you want total control over your collection. Streaming services, and digital purchases are merely long term rentals.

I buy a Blu-Ray and it's mine to keep. It will play in any Blu-Ray player I have and I can rip it and play it over my network. No one can come and take it away from me without actually stealing it for me.

Whereas if I buy it from amazon, iTunes, Google, etc, it's a long term rental. At any time someone from the studios can decide that it should no longer be available and poof, it's gone from your purchases list and so is your money. Or the store can shut down and remove access to your movies. I lost about 10 movies when Flixster shut down, and 5 when Ultraviolet shut down. I didn't really care since they were all movies I had on DVD and Blu-Ray already so I may have lost it there, but I still have it physically and can still watch it. It's not gone for me.
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post #342 of 360 Old 05-18-2020, 03:04 PM
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I'm not worried about the future of UHD BD. I already have Star Wars and Jaws is soon coming out.

I"m buying them as fast as I can and if they dis-appeared I already have a lot of them. Soon I'll have enough to watch every night of the year. If people buy them they will sell them.

I don't think streaming will kill the disc... not anytime soon. Either way, I just prefer not to stream movies. I don't like it from a quality or reliability standpoint.

I really don't understand people leasing movies with stuff like Disney + .. I guess just because something is new people flock to it. Fortunes are made by people just being sheep.

I just buy Disney movies instead .... that way I only pay once.

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post #343 of 360 Old 05-18-2020, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I see my old thread still has some legs!! Thanks guys.

I cut the cord about 18 months ago and streaming has replaced something. My cable/DBS services for casual movies and series that I would have caught on HBO, Cinemax, whaterver.

When I want to watch a MOVIE I still choose hard media. Have upgraded to 4k display and thinking about going with 4k player.......HOWEVER unlike the DVD days when it seemed there were so many wonderful movies available......then less with BluRay (I felt HD-DVD had a better library before it died).......the current offering on 4k seems slim. Most current movies are not worth a second watch.....and the so many of the back catalog titles are 2k upconverts I feel stuck in a 2k world.

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
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post #344 of 360 Old 05-18-2020, 08:26 PM
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When will streaming kill the disc??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
They are worth it if you want total control over your collection. Streaming services, and digital purchases are merely long term rentals.

I buy a Blu-Ray and it's mine to keep. It will play in any Blu-Ray player I have and I can rip it and play it over my network. No one can come and take it away from me without actually stealing it for me.

Whereas if I buy it from amazon, iTunes, Google, etc, it's a long term rental. At any time someone from the studios can decide that it should no longer be available and poof, it's gone from your purchases list and so is your money. Or the store can shut down and remove access to your movies. I lost about 10 movies when Flixster shut down, and 5 when Ultraviolet shut down. I didn't really care since they were all movies I had on DVD and Blu-Ray already so I may have lost it there, but I still have it physically and can still watch it. It's not gone for me.

It sounds like you have been bitten before, but it’s fair to mention there’s a flip side to this. Physical media can be damaged, or lost, or your local server can die, or you spend a lot to back up giant Blu ray rips.

These days you can buy a movie on Apple iTunes and watch it on Xbox, or buy a movie on Google Play and watch it via your Apple account. With the Movies Anywhere alliance your purchases aren’t tied directly to the whim of one retailer.

Honestly I buy more movies than I can watch. When I see a sale for some popular trilogy in 4k UHD for $9.99 that’s an impulse buy for my library. I’ve been stocking up on things I will want to watch when the theater is finished. It’s nice to be able to buy movies for pennies on the dollar, watch them anywhere without having to rip them or anything.

It’s just a trade off, there is no correct answer for everyone. I’m sure once I have my theater I’ll dabble with physical media to see how much better it looks than streaming.

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post #345 of 360 Old 05-18-2020, 09:49 PM
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Disc also won't die. It'll be a niche, but the market generally ensures niches get filled. You might not be paying $30 for a UHD Blu-Ray when it leaves public awareness, but like laserdisc, you'll be able to buy it. You might pay $200 for a UHD release, but the only way to kill it would be another format everyone flocks to (like how DVD eventually killed laserdisc).

As long as there are movies that videophiles want and will pay the niche prices for, they will still be available. People paid $200+ for laserdiscs even though you could get it on VHS or DVD cheaper. I might not buy 30 Blu-rays a year at $200 a pop, but I certainly will buy maybe 2-3 selected choices.
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post #346 of 360 Old 05-18-2020, 10:05 PM
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Many, MANY years ago, when movies were first available (on video tape, suggested retail price $79.00), I thought "who'd want to OWN a movie". There might be a movie you'd want to see twice, maybe more, but not many. Then rental places came along, and you could temporarily possess a movie.
Fast forward (see what I did there?) to today and now we stream movies.
I have movies (on tape and DVD) that are collecting dust, some I've literally NEVER watched. But I own them!

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post #347 of 360 Old 05-19-2020, 01:27 AM
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With modern compression techniques and high bandwidths, efficient video processors, etc, discs will eventually die. Because streaming will sooner or later catch up in quality to physical discs. It’s a big business and that’s where all the money is being poured in. For hardcore media owners, there will probably be a refined ultraviolet type repository where all personal digital media will get stored but it will still be online streaming with perhaps option to download to secure digital devices to avoid piracy.

Discs are easy to pirate. Video piracy is killing the content producers. Streaming is a very secure way to encounter it. As soon as a movie comes out on physical media, the internet is littered with pirated content. For someone like me, who wants his own personal media stored at home, I often get this comment “Thats piracy” because well that’s what it has come down to. You want to own your own physical copies today, either your are cold fashioned or part of a grander scheme to promote piracy. That’s how they label you now.
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post #348 of 360 Old 05-19-2020, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post
Many, MANY years ago, when movies were first available (on video tape, suggested retail price $79.00), I thought "who'd want to OWN a movie". There might be a movie you'd want to see twice, maybe more, but not many. Then rental places came along, and you could temporarily possess a movie.
Fast forward (see what I did there?) to today and now we stream movies.
I have movies (on tape and DVD) that are collecting dust, some I've literally NEVER watched. But I own them!

I don't disagree about the rewatch-ability of a lot of movies... but there are still plenty of ways to rent physical discs. They send them to me in the mail. I pick out what I want next via an app on my phone or a web browser on my laptop, just like I do/would if I was picking out a movie from a streaming service.



Note: I'm not against streaming services. I have paid subscriptions to several of them (Netflix, HBO Now, and Youtube Red; Showtime Anytime comes along for the ride with my cable package. Etc).


Quote:
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With modern compression techniques and high bandwidths, efficient video processors, etc, discs will eventually die. Because streaming will sooner or later catch up in quality to physical discs. It’s a big business and that’s where all the money is being poured in. For hardcore media owners, there will probably be a refined ultraviolet type repository where all personal digital media will get stored but it will still be online streaming with perhaps option to download to secure digital devices to avoid piracy.

Maybe? Maybe even "probably?" But when? People have been saying that for a long time now. It seems unlikely to me that it happens at any point within the next 5 (or probably even 10) years. The PQ of my uncompressed blu ray library often (but not always) surpasses the PQ I get off streaming services compressed 4K UHD, to say nothing of SQ (for which the gap is even wider than PQ). For "the general consumer" (not a AVS Forums Home Theater enthusiast)? Absolutely. Completely agreed. But that's exactly why I don't think PQ and SQ is going to catch up anytime soon. The streaming services are very well aware of what the priorities/needs of their average customer is, and that is providing the largest-and-best-curated library possible (managing long-term distribution agreements) while being reliable and stable even on low(er)-speed connections and on low(er)-quality mobile devices, NOT for providing ultra-premium experiences to a small minority of owners with carefully-constructed, time-consumingly-calibrated, expensive rigs. The streaming services aren't focused on catching physical disc on PQ and SQ, because most of their subscriber base doesn't care.


The fact that CDs still exist and new albums can still be bought on CD at release, this many years after music-streaming-services rose to fame, should add confidence that video-streaming isn't on the verge of killing blu ray movie physical media anytime soon...



Quote:
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Discs are easy to pirate. Video piracy is killing the content producers. Streaming is a very secure way to encounter it. As soon as a movie comes out on physical media, the internet is littered with pirated content. For someone like me, who wants his own personal media stored at home, I often get this comment “Thats piracy” because well that’s what it has come down to. You want to own your own physical copies today, either your are cold fashioned or part of a grander scheme to promote piracy. That’s how they label you now.

Yes, I want to own (some of) my own multimedia content. I don't want (some of) my favorite shows and movies to just disappear from my current streaming subscriptions. I already pay for numerous monthly-services, with no-end-in-sight (sans ownership) to how many more I need to pick up and start paying for in order to retain access to content that I enjoy.


And there's is nothing "old fashioned" about platforms like Plex and Roon. They are very *new* and very *cool* IMO, they bring your own personal library to life with nice GUI's, watched states, interesting stats-for-nerds about your own files, and they make local and physical media as-accessible-and-convenient-as streaming media (but with the permanence of ownership, and at better quality).


Plex and Roon have never been more popular and more useful, at least in my house, than they are right now, with all the fragmenting of the streaming services into dozen(s) of platforms, and all the quarantine-time-at-home with which to consume media.

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post #349 of 360 Old 05-19-2020, 02:08 PM
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I admit we find ourselves streaming more and more content, especially with the quarantine and our kids sports suspended (practice for softball, basketball, and football workouts have all resumed in the past couple of weeks so our vacation is over!), but I can tell the difference in quality between even a good stream (iTune store) and a UHD. A cheaper version of Kaleidoscope could kill off the disk, but they don't seem interested in playing in the budget realm. Streaming could eventually kill the disk, if they offered UHD quality video and sound, but I'm not sure they will ever think it's worth the bandwidth to do so. I mean streaming services have been out for how long and just the past few years have we seen CD (or better) quality streaming - the demand just wasn't there - 320kbps MP3 was "good enough". It doesn't help that most people probably watch their 70" TV from 15 feet away and you probably can't see the difference in quality from that distance. I do think that steaming will turn UHD disks into niche markets in the next five years or so, and I doubt there will ever be another physical media video format.

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post #350 of 360 Old 05-19-2020, 06:45 PM
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For those questioning how/why DVD sales severely outpace UHD and even BD disc sales... I'm a fairly dedicated AVSer and I probably buy regular DVD 5 or 10:1 vs BD/UHD. I buy 1-2 UHD discs a year (Star Wars and the occasional higher-profile MCU film) but I buy 5-10 regular DVDs each year for the kids to watch in the car on long trips. I could pay more for BD with an included DVD, but the same movies are available on D+ or some other streaming service and absolute PQ isn't really a concern for those films anyway.

The convenience of streaming (along with TROS being a mediocre film) even kept me from making my one Star Wars purchase this year... I just bought it on Vudu for $10 when it was on sale and, honestly, probably should have just waited another week for it to show up on D+. TROS is the first Star Wars film I haven't purchased at least once on physical media (the OT twice on VHS, LD, DVD, and BD; PT on DVD; BD, Rogue One and TFA on BD), and I may not unless I find a deal on a UHD disc without digital code on eBay or possibly a BF deal... this shows me my consumption habits have changed and I don't really feel all that bad about it. Endgame and Solo were the only UHD discs I purchased in 2019. So far I've not purchased a single UHD disc in 2020... and based on the lack of theatrical releases, I probably won't. Even with mid-level equipment in a dedicated theater I still find the PQ/AQ difference moderate at best (and more often than not marginal)... convenience has become king.

For reference, at one time I had a ~1400 disc DVD and ~200 disc BD collection. That collection currently stands at ~20 DVDs (mostly TV series), ~20 BDs (Pre-UHD Star Wars, MCU, calibration discs, a few random 3D, and a few random Goodwill finds), and ~10 UHDs (Star Wars TLS and Solo, a few MCU, and a few random BF deals). ~1600 discs all looked pretty on 4 big media shelves but I probably played 2-3 discs/month. I offloaded what I could on eBay and Craig's List and the rest went to a pawn shop for $1-2/disc.

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post #351 of 360 Old 05-19-2020, 11:01 PM
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Piracy isn't killing disc.

First, few people pirate full discs - 30-90GB files just aren't interesting.

Second,most piracy groups don't rip discs anymore - in the race to release, ripping a disc and re-encoding it just takes too much time. Especially since most streaming services have it up earlier than the disc, it's easier to just rip the stream and distribute that (aka "webrips")

Third, most people who pirate see 30GB as too large - they'd rather go for the webrip that's only 5-8 GB or so. That's good enough and they're happy.

I rip my discs and no one is ever interested in them - they dislike such huge files and ask why I don't just get the 5GB version.

And the stream rips come way earlier than the disc rips I've seen. Disc rips usually show up about a week before the disc comes out. Stream rips come out within 24 hours of it coming up. And since digital streaming typically happen about a month before the disc release, that's when the movies start showing up. Heck, they even label which streaming service the video comes from - Amazon is popular.
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post #352 of 360 Old 05-20-2020, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post
...There might be a movie you'd want to see twice, maybe more, but not many.
Quoting myself....I MUST be bored....
Anyway, how many movies do we really like enough to own in super-duper quality? Even my favorite movies are satisfactory on DVD or streaming.
Of course, I'm old, my vision and hearing aren't what they used to be....

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post #353 of 360 Old 05-20-2020, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post
Quoting myself....I MUST be bored....
Anyway, how many movies do we really like enough to own in super-duper quality? Even my favorite movies are satisfactory on DVD or streaming.
Of course, I'm old, my vision and hearing aren't what they used to be....

I might not want to watch it more than a couple of times, but when I watch a movie I want it in the best video and audio. I don't mind renting movies - maybe one day I'll be able to stream a rental of UHD quality.

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post #354 of 360 Old 05-20-2020, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
.......the current offering on 4k seems slim. Most current movies are not worth a second watch.....and the so many of the back catalog titles are 2k upconverts I feel stuck in a 2k world.
I've always felt 4K was a solution looking for a problem.

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post #355 of 360 Old 05-20-2020, 11:46 PM
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Considering the first time I watch a movie is usually when it comes on disc, well, those few discs you want to rewatch can be anything. I don't trust reviews - been burned too many times where an awesome movie I found boring, and a completely bad movie turns into something I enjoyed.

Better to get the disc than wish I got the disc. I have many DVDs I bought in the early HD days that I now wish I had on Blu-Ray. I didn't get the Blu-Ray first because the price differential was fairly big in the early days and Blu-Ray transfer quality was hit and miss a lot of times (sometimes the DVD was better on all ways over the Blu-Ray)
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post #356 of 360 Old 05-24-2020, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I've always felt 4K was a solution looking for a problem.
I've always felt that was HDR. 4K has untapped potential, if the equipment is up to it. HDR so far is more smoke and mirrors, it needs better use for theatrical films. At this point it's like the early days of ATMOS, no one knows what to do with it yet. With all of the films going for a photographic "look" muted colors, soft- focus etc.. who would want to HDR that ?
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post #357 of 360 Old 05-25-2020, 12:56 AM
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The problem with HDR is most people with 4k TVs bought them as Black Friday specials that cost less than $1000. The colorspace is barely bigger than rec.709 (HDTV), and the backlight doesn't come close to the 1000 nits for hdr10 (hey, you'll get the standard 400 nits). After all, they were cheap for a reason.

Good enough for netflix and streaming.

Those of us on AVS want something better and get better screens able to get a good chunk of rec.2020 if not all of it, and ultra right displays. Something where HDR pops.
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post #358 of 360 Old 05-25-2020, 09:35 AM
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You mean less than $500 black Friday TVs. There are several sub 1k TVs that can show as much or more of the color space as TVs costing thousands more.

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post #359 of 360 Old 05-25-2020, 11:21 AM
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I've been watching mostly discs because my kids are home.

They can have the bandwidth.

Helps that the discs are better anyways. The streaming stuff is "optimized for streaming" which means throwing out 90% of the data and usually a lossy soundtrack.

UHD is the best. Blu Ray was great. DVD can work. LD was awful.

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post #360 of 360 Old 05-25-2020, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post
Quoting myself....I MUST be bored....
Anyway, how many movies do we really like enough to own in super-duper quality? Even my favorite movies are satisfactory on DVD or streaming.
Of course, I'm old, my vision and hearing aren't what they used to be....

How many? About 680 at last count. 470 Blu-rays and 210 4K Blu-rays.


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