When will streaming kill the disc?? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 12:42 AM
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There is a tendency toward all-or-none thinking that has usually turned out to be incorrect: PC people predicted the death of the Mac for decades; Android outsell iPhones 2:1, GMCs and Toyotas vs your Rolls Royces, etc. Other than a few format wars (Betamax vs VHS, HD-DVD vs Blu-ray), the market is big enough and diverse enough for niche products to thrive.

I believe streaming is not only the future, it is the NOW. For my most critical viewing (either in my living room with my Samsung 82" UHD TV or in my theater with 158" 2.35:1 screen and Sony 4K projector, I want the highest quality available: 4K Blu-rays, or if unavailable, 1080p Blu-rays with the highest bitrate available. But I spend 90% of my viewing time streaming from Netflix/Amazon/HBO, etc., 10% watching my Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray collection (uncompressed digital rips streamed from my Plex server). There is SUCH breadth of content available to stream that even the largest personal media libraries can't compete. (Mine's not that large, as it's just my movies, not the libraries of thousands of pirated movies some people have, which defeats the purpose since streamed movies are just as good as most people's Handbraked movies.)

Even for music, I stream full CD-quality music from Tidal. The day they start supplying 4K Blu-ray quality via streaming (40-60 Mbps HEVC rather than 15-20 of Netflix - I have gigabit internet) rather than the higher compressed streaming versions, I may dump my Plex media server and buy digital.

Pricing of digital media is interesting... usually slightly less than physical media to purchase, but when physical goes on sale, can be cheaper than digital. But digital rentals are WAY more than Redbox due to how lazy we've all gotten.
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post #32 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooterjay View Post
It loads faster (plus no disc required) and if your collection is damaged or stolen, in most cases you can just download it again.
If they become obsolete one day, who would want to steal them Like nowadays who woul want to steal video-casettes or whats that called in english.

Ive heard that the best safety feature of a car in US to have is having a manual transmission

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post #33 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
Hey guys, over in the demise of OPPO thread so much on and off about streaming being the future of high quality delivery of movies and binge watching seasons of tv programming.

Personally I see the bright future quickly going dark in a very short time once we hit critical mass.

There is growth in this area no doubt and it is using bandwidth. Facetime and other "video calling" apps along with music streaming continue to grow in popularity. More and more businesses are getting away from internal and private networks and going on to the public web. Add to that the growth of streaming services that aren't supplying these "high quality" movie streams but are bringing our day to day programs that used to come over DBS, OTA or cable.

5G brings the promise of more bandwidth without the expense of the backbone.......but will it deliver and at what cost? No current 4G provider I am aware of is offering unlimited or uncapped video streaming above 480p.

Downloadable purchases may have a strong future but does widespread 4K or even 2K streaming hold up against disc based media as the bandwidth is slowly eaten up, ISPs start favoring certain content providers, and push prices up for our network pipe as they continue to lose legacy cable subscribers as cord cutting continues to grow?

UHD maybe the final physical format we see.......but I can't imagine the death of silver platters over the next couple of decades.

Please discuss but please keep it friendly........we don't all see things the same.
Here in Sweden, I have 500mbit synchronous fibre connection for 300 SEK a month ($35) with an internal Gbit wired network. Bandwidth is not an issue, on my end. I'd like nothing more than to have streaming everything, because of the convenience, and I suppose that if you aren't a technical geek, then having Netflix, Spotify and some kind of movie rental service like iTunes on an Apple 4k TV (which is what I use) is likely more than good enough for you, even now.



After having thrown away my old VHS collection, and having to continue to store a relatively small DVD collection that no longer cuts the mustard in these days of 1080p quality films, it feels silly to continue to buy media as a primary format, unless you buy it at rental prices. I'm still on 1080p which is good enough for me at the moment. I've become more pragmatic with age, and even though 4K HDR is very enticing, I think i'll wait until the prices drop and content becomes more widespread. Our terrestrial TV is still on 720p for the majority of channels, so unless I invest in 4K bluray player and Netflix 4K, I won't be able to enjoy the benefits of upgrading.


However, there is still one very solid reason to buy physical media, but it only really applies to people who care about quality: BluRay 1080p is uncompressed (well, unless you count in H.264 format itself). At 50GB it's the best quality you can get (in my current situation discounting 4K), plus it comes with uncompressed (again, discounting the actual formats compression) HD audio. If I watch Netflix with a 1080p rez movie, i'm not getting anywhere near the same bitrate as a real BluRay disc. And the HD audio is non-existant. The best they can muster is Dolby Digital Plus (which is admittedly quite good for broadcast/streaming). If I stream Spotify, it'snot FLAC. If I rent a movie from iTunes on my ATV 4K, it's got a similar bitrate issue/Audio issue as Netflix has. And if I watch national terrestrial TV on their web streaming platform, it's the same issues again. Plus, with national TV I get the added "benefit" that they sh*t on the audio completely and revert to plain stereo audio for all streaming content.


When DVD was the premier format, it was a golden age for both physical media and content quality. You had one single format that saturated the market, it was the same quality all the time, and came with decent 5.1 multi channel sound. Now when streaming is competeing with physical media, it's a very mixed bag. Unless you dedicate yourself to buying bluray/UHD bluray, you're stuck with lower bitrates and lower quality audio than what the general public experienced when DVD was king, despite an on-paper resolution that is higher than DVD. I can't rent bluray discs here like I could with DVD: the option doesn't exist, so i'm limited to buying a BluRay, or streaming.


In my ideal world, all streaming services would stream at more reasonable bitrates for the format, even if it was slightly compressed and include HD multichannel audio as a bitstream and not PCM. Plus, the back catalogue would never unexpectedly disappear--I'm looking at you Netflix! If terrestrial TV followed suit, that would be the death of physical formats.
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post #34 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 06:06 AM
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Within a decade, not everyone has good internet. Then again at one time records were suppose to go the way of the dinosaur, yet we're seeing sales of records actually increasing over the last few years!
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post #35 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scooterjay View Post
I agree. The sound of the digital products does not yet match up to the sound (and oftentimes, the picture) that we get from physical media. On the other hand for those of us that are gamers, I see little issue with using digital media all of the time for that. It loads faster (plus no disc required) and if your collection is damaged or stolen, in most cases you can just download it again. Relocating and repurchasing the discs again could be an expensive proposition whereas with the low price of HDD's, when you move or need to replace your collection, it's all on the hard drive, most likely in the console. Again, this is ideal for gamers where sound is important but not the biggest consideration. For features, UHD and blu-ray provide much better sound options if you have a home theater for sure. So I don't see physical media leaving anytime soon.
Since you mentioned gaming.......I admit not even an expert on this so I have a few questions.

First applies to all media, the used market. When I go into GameStop they have a HUGE selection of used titles. Won't digital only media kill that market? I am sure it would be ok with the producers of the content AND the market for used CDs and movies isn't great but gaming does seem to have a decent secondary market.

Second is for games only. Doesn't the use of the disc "unlock" the digital content you store on the hard drive? Won't there still be a need for some physical key for copy protection??

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post #36 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
There is the problem. At Amazon, it often costs as much or more to buy a digital version of a movie than to purchase the disk. Same with Kindle versions of books vs the physical copy. Ditto for music. Makes no sense-no cost of material and no shipping costs. If I am going to spend the same for the physical version as it costs me to stream it, I will pick the disk any time.
Exactly this - Amazon sells UHD Blu-ray discs mostly between $12-22, with only some as high as $30 before bundles/coupons. They also come with the 1080p Blu-ray and digital copy, some with the DVD, too! Four versions of the same movie for the price of a low bit rate HD "lease". I will own my movies, back them up to my server, and keep the discs forever until they, or I, rot.
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post #37 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
Since you mentioned gaming.......I admit not even an expert on this so I have a few questions.

First applies to all media, the used market. When I go into GameStop they have a HUGE selection of used titles. Won't digital only media kill that market? I am sure it would be ok with the producers of the content AND the market for used CDs and movies isn't great but gaming does seem to have a decent secondary market.

Second is for games only. Doesn't the use of the disc "unlock" the digital content you store on the hard drive? Won't there still be a need for some physical key for copy protection??
In reality, disc-based games have been dead for many years on PC. The vast majority of PC games you purchase as a physical copy are just an empty box with a Steam/UPlay/Origin/Blizzard key to download the game client and installer. Likewise, all the free-to-play, pay-to-win, and arcade-style games are pure digital distro now, too. GOG lets you download and keep the games freely with no copy protection, though, which is really great.

In order to "combat piracy" there are also all these day one "patches" where the version that ships on the disc is a broken POS and you have to download the entire game in order to play it by using the disc itself as the key. So even though it plays off the internal storage, you still need the disc in the drive to play the game.

I feel sorry for people with monthly bandwidth caps, I think I exceeded about 3TB last month up/down between reinstalling most of my Steam games, XboneX games, Netflix, and misc. cloud transfers.

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post #38 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 11:09 AM
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For me streaming has killed the disc except for a very few special titles. If studios had more widely published Atmos content, I might have a different opinion.

I went from 20 mbs to 100 at Christmas and recently got an LG b7 oled. The Netflix 4k DV Atmos content has been amazing. I have one UHD title, Blue Planet 2 which is also fantastic.

I'm running 5.4.4 and really appreciate what streaming has become. When I first tried it, it was sub dvd quality, now I think it can keep pace with UHD Discs.
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post #39 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
There is the problem. At Amazon, it often costs as much or more to buy a digital version of a movie than to purchase the disk. Same with Kindle versions of books vs the physical copy. Ditto for music. Makes no sense-no cost of material and no shipping costs. If I am going to spend the same for the physical version as it costs me to stream it, I will pick the disk any time.
While it makes no sense from the materials cost perspective, I assume they've calculated that the typical customer will pay more for the higher convenience factor. So only the highly thrifty-minded folks will opt instead for the physical form and put up with a bit more (or lot more, depending upon your perspective) inconvenience.
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post #40 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 12:30 PM
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Streaming already killed the disc

I am more concerned with the cable companies attempts to eliminate local Over The Air (OTA) TV with only streaming. I had basic cable and used a cheap indoor antenna for OTA because they broadcast in full HD with no compression decompression. Many times it looks as good or better that any 1080p source. I listened to this website on 2015 Black Friday when we decided to finally get rid of our Panasonic 58" plasma screen in favor of a new 65"-70" 4k TV. I read here that Vizio M65 was the highest rated?? Vizio?? Then I started researching here and found they all have full array lighting on the back not just edge lit. I learned about dimming zones and saw the difference on in store displays so we bought one. I then had it have issues with the HDMI in mechanically two weeks after buying and Vizio sent a repair guy within two days and he replaced all the boards that had given problems and replaced the HDMI board. That was in January 2016. We had basic cable and Amazon as well as Netflix. We dropped the 480 resolution basic cable and bought Sling TV as well as a new Channel master Rooftop antenna, this four out distribution amp, https://www.parts-express.com/electr...ifier--182-562. We get 28 channels that are great. All the major networks in 1080i and many great oldies sub-channels in 720 and some 480. Basic cable had only one 480 public broadcast channel and OTA had 3, all 1080i!
I wanted to upgrade my TV because it does not have the ability to cast my portable devices, and I wanted to move up to a 70" Vizio M or possible P. But the new ones had no OTA tuners!!! I just read here today that all Vizio models will have OTA tuners Thank goodness. See, if all TVs have no tuners, then we are forced to stream or go cable again for local channels. So let's also consider the OTA as content which it is. We then subscribed to Sling TV Blue with HBO for 14.99 a month. So now our streaming content is Amazon Prime, Hulu, Netflix, Sling TV Blue with HBO, and online videos.

I can't watch all the content we now own, let alone argue over whether 1080 or 4k can be seen (They CAN!) And we pay less than the basic cable bill along with the 70 bucks we were paying anyway for 200Mbps Internet service which includes the extra $10 for unlimited streaming. I live in a rural area 15 miles away from town with 2-3 bars Verizon service and the other carriers none to one. So cable Internet is our only choice and our cable provider is over priced with no competition - a monopoly.

I have an extensive Music CD collection (more than 3000) all greatest hits, best of, and collections. I ripped them all to MP3 at best for MP3 quality - 320Kbps. We were mobile DJs for fun and made more than we expected on weekends from 1983-2003. We were in the middle of buying all our albums on CDs and at the time went from using dbx cassettes for copies to ripped CDs. We also went from VHS rentals to DVD with Netflix shipping to direct streaming with no DVD to return. I saved only about 300 of our LPs in vinyl which were played once to record encoded with dbx nr to cassettes. We had Sony Hi8 recorders now being ripped from that metal tape to DVDs that can then be ripped to my hard drives. We store all our CDs, DVDs, Blu-Ray discs in 200-300 disk binder albums with the liner notes.

We have two generation 2 Fire TV devices (4k Hardware) and one gen 1 for 1080 p no 4k that is attached to my Dell 2720 all in one with quad HD and HDMI in as well as an out. I also have 2 Hauppauge 955Q WinTV tuners and DVR in one that are great! They are connected to the wall outlet for OTA TV. Streaming is over AC1900 MIMO router and 16 channel Modem from Linksys. on our TVs we select from HDMI 1, Blu-Ray player HDMI, or Antenna from the roof with a perfect signal. HDMI one is the Amazon Fire TV in all but the guest bedroom which has no fire TV just OTA and wireless Internet for Sling TV, Amazon Prime, and Netflix in addition to the HD OTA channels from the antenna.

I have not bought a new DVD or Blu-Ray in the last ten years. I buy used on Craigslist, Goodwill, and Pawn shops. Many are new in cellophane and the Blu Rays are $1.99-$3.99.

Now folks I can afford anything I want and used to buy Denon and the first Pioneer DSX A/V receiver back in the 80s was on my shelf with 901s. I have two Yamaha YSP 800 sound projectors and the matching Yamaha subs that use the system on off. They are on the shelf, about to be sold, as we can't get voices as clear as we can on the top line Vizio 5.1 system with wireless rear sub and surround speakers bar up front. I was a military weapons instructor and despite wearing double ear protection between DJing and machine guns enough damaging vibrations to make me a bit lacking in high end freqs today at 65. I would no more use a soundbar or any all in one solution for the kiddies and Luddites. Today, I have found that like the amazing Bose Mini Soundlinks and Soundlink II BT speakers we have, size doesn't really matter anymore.

I am getting a new M65 or 70 with Casting to match my 5.1 soundbar system. We will be keeping our Fire TVs as the new dangling one aren't as robust as the Gen 2 Fires. We also have Surface Pro 4 and Amazon Fire tablets an 8.9 HDX and the newest 2017 10 " Fire with actual 1080p resolution for full HD.

I need no Discs anymore. But have mine archived digitally and the hard copies in DVD albums with the jewel cases trashed. Today I listen to my ripped music (More than 150GBs of ripped MP3) on 128GB micro SD cards in my Android phones that we also have a video projector for (Moto Z Play Droids soon to be replaced by Play II droid) as well as wireless charging snap on mods, and the JBL speaker mod. In the car I listen to my music via BT on my car audio. We also have BT head phones, three sets that are amazing! We had to buy several before we found the better quality and run times.

Streaming from Internet, tablets or phones with music and movies on our micro SD cards, OTA video and music.

I can't watch all the full HD and 4k content of really good movies and series if I watched 24/7. BTW, I leave my phone in the car when out, and may or may not see a text or voicemail as I am never head down in my smart phone. I do emails and write my stuff like now at home. On a Dell 2720 27" quad HD screen, with a full size keyboard and mouse. We have Thermal Take Hard Drive Docks and about 24 TB of drives I kept over the years since 2005 in 1 and 2 TB drives. My movies, pictures, and music, are duplicated on the external drives. And we have the original CDs and DVDs and BluRays in 15 Disc CaseLogic storage books. Wde no longer use our top line Blu Ray player much at all, and the Hi8 videos not at all since we moved them to DVDs. I even have a DVD recorder that is excellent as well as a Hi8 VCR. I no longer have a Hi8 camera. Why with our excellent cell phone cameras?

So folks the real issue here is not that the disc is dead. Nor that all should keep their source material like I did. I don't buy anything any more. And if it is new and costs We wait until it can be streamed free or for $3.99 or less. We have only rented three movies in the last year. If Prime keeps charging we may actually be dropping Prime for the new kids on the block with all content paid for by my 10-25 dollar subscription fee per month. I watched Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 when they were still charging for them on Prime videos!

The average Joe will buy Cable and still not buy streaming. We are not rich but can buy anything we want cash.

When I write that online some people read it as bragging and miss the point. I have the technical background and education, a military career training folks to fire their rifles, machine guns, pistols, shoulder rockets, retired from a couple more careers and earned what we have. I Make those statements to validate this next. The most expensive isn't always the best, and most folks can't see or hear a statistic or test reading. I propose that unless the testers are testing as the recordings are made, live, and then comparing that range to the recorded range some multi thousand dollar units will fall on their butts. I love Bose wave radios but today, realistically, we use our phones and now Alexa for our go to sleep and shut off at a specified time bedside devices. We have the M65 in a home theater configuration, and rarely entertain. We have few close friends and we have them over for a weekend as house guests or a week with their RVs.

The best system is one selected from the ones your budget allows, after a few weeks or months of reading, researching, seeing listening in stores, and then finally buying. Now that Vizio has their OTA tuners back, I am upgrading just to get the casting feature and to take advantage of their improvements over the last 3 years.

AVS here is an excellent resource for the research from actual users and those who make this niche a place to show their expertise and help. We oftentimes end up with systems, phones and computers many think are too expensive or think are too cheap. I have a set of BT headphones that were $30 that will equal or exceed many of the $200-$350 headsets. Amazon basics 4k HDMI cables for under $10 bucks beat or meet the crazy cable prices people pay for at retail or online stores from Monster etc. Amazon basics rechargeable pre-charged NiMH batteries are as good or better than ones three times their cost.

You invest time and money. Short on either makes you waste the other. And some folks defend their choices when they know better.

Streaming has already taken over, but those that have the original media and players should hang onto them. I still have 300 vinyl LPs and am playing them on a cheap digital converter turntable that even has internal rechargeable batteries! See despite not having a $300 cartridge, the albums are only going to be played once each to digitize them making the total of plays 2 maybe three. And no scratches, albums stored in a closet in boxes vertically oriented with all cellophane removed.

But I will not pay for each stream and will go back to media if the streamers go there before I die.

Remember, if you can't see or hear it, drop down until you can see the difference and then buy one up from that.

We are organic beings and I know folks with poor vision that won't wear their glasses, ans folks who are worse than I am and use hearing aids that still want to pay top dollar for speakers when they can't really hear the difference between an am/fm clock radio and high end speakers.
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post #41 of 361 Old 04-18-2018, 11:49 PM
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Streaming like netflix are great, unlimited and a relatively big collection. However, they tend to get movies the last, so you need to buy them individually if there are movies you really want to see (but not in theater), and it is here I have problems, because you're not buying a movie, you're just buying a license from that provider to send you that movie.

The problem becomes what happens when the content provider and the streaming provider decide to break up - it's already happened with people with ebooks that suddenly find their "bought" ebooks and video games suddenly missing one day. Poof, gone, all that money spent.

So you buy a good big movie collection from a streaming provider, then someone has a tiff, and now your big movie collection has shrunk by a large amount. Hopefully it was a movie you didn't care about, but that money is spent.

Or worse yet, non-disparagement clauses are coming and people have suddenly found their accounts closed and all those bought things, gone.

Last I checked, no one's taken a disc from me. And I can say how bad best buy is and they won't seize my discs when they ban me from heir store.

And yes, this is one reason why streaming providers love their business model - they can silence the consumer knowing the content can be held hostage.
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post #42 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 04:40 AM
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Most people would never buy a high end disc player ever, hence the Oppo situation.
I've had my own basement "theater" for several years now and still have not purchased an Oppo. If that says anything. I love my tech, but just never spent the money.
I enjoy the overall step up in quality that physical media has over streamed content.
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post #43 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 07:33 AM
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Its interesting for me....with video games...I am all digital...with the exception of Rockband 4...I cannot recall the last physical game I bought.

Music is all digital for me and has been for a very long time.

But when it comes to movies....I am still BD only....except for stupid movies I dont care about but for some reason family wants to see...so its a digital rental from Vudu.


I know the day is coming...I mean there is a reason studios are offering new releases up to a month earlier via digital before disc release....its more profitable for them and requires less effort if any to bring to market.

I hope movies on disc will be around for some time still...since I think we are still a ways off where quality and "reliability" (i.e buffering, av sync) match that of disc.
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post #44 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mbarland View Post
It already has for most people. Around this forum, where everyone wants the highest resolution, highest bitrate video possible, the disc is probably still preferred. Most regular folks can't tell the difference between a BD and Netflix's stream as quality goes. So for them, it's just the convenience of pointing and clicking.

Streaming has already cut the cable for a lot of people, even on this forum.
JMO, but this is correct. Most people don't calibrate their TVs, and most people "listen" to their movies through the built-in speakers on the TV, or best-case-scenario have "upgraded" to a soundbar. For most people's setups and level-of-care, it looks/sounds essential the same, and in that universe, streaming is WAAAAY more convenient while providing essentially equivalent quality/performance, so of course its a no-brainer.

But this is AVS Forums. The "A", in particular, in "AVS", stands for something. And a lot of us here have dedicated 100+ watt AVRs hooked up via speaker wire, with calibrated-and-room-corrected surround sound systems. For us, the difference between the lower bitrates (both audio and video, but especially audio for me at least) of the streaming sources is more than noticable; it's glaring. We want all the 1's and 0's we can get, because we want to get as close to "perfection" as we can afford. So we're still physical media users "for the experience", even if we're also streaming users "for the convenience". This is a niche community. And it may be strong enough to support a "niche" market for a long time. I have no idea. But the quoted post is dead-on right, IMO; most people either can't tell a difference or don't care that there is one, and just want to stream. And that's unlikely to change going forward.
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post #45 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 09:09 AM
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When will streaming kill the disc?

2016.

While BD will still be around for awhile, I personally don't know anyone who still buys Blu-ray Discs, just like I don't know anyone who still buys CDs. BD sales are quickly becoming a niche market for enthusiasts who care about the absolute best A/V quality. That isn't sustainable from a profitability standpoint for very long. When sales/profits drop enough, good products go away regardless of any technical superiorities they may have.

As others have said, this is a forum for enthusiasts. The other 99.9% in the world don't care and/or they don't have equipment that would properly show the quality differences. For them, streaming quality is more than "good enough" and is more convenient than dealing with discs. These are the people that drive sales and product direction. There's a reason streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music have become the de facto standard for music listening. Convenience and having a library of millions of songs at your fingertips trumps the last 5% in audio quality that streaming may lack. 99% of people don't care about that and streaming sounds good enough on their equipment.
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post #46 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
UHD maybe the final physical format we see.......but I can't imagine the death of silver platters over the next couple of decades.
I'd agree. It's coming... but not anytime soon enough to where I am worried about it. I buy physical media exclusively. I like the convenience of streaming to the many devices floating around my home... but when it comes to watching movies on my OLED... it's disc.

Someone posted a chart in one of these discussions last week... about how streaming sales are up 30% and physical media sales are down 14%... but still reached a staggering $4.7B last year. That's a whole lot of BR and DVD disc money... a cash cow the studios will continue to milk for years to come.



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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
There is the problem. At Amazon, it often costs as much or more to buy a digital version of a movie than to purchase the disk. Same with Kindle versions of books vs the physical copy. Ditto for music. Makes no sense-no cost of material and no shipping costs. If I am going to spend the same for the physical version as it costs me to stream it, I will pick the disk any time.
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
Exactly this - Amazon sells UHD Blu-ray discs mostly between $12-22, with only some as high as $30 before bundles/coupons. They also come with the 1080p Blu-ray and digital copy, some with the DVD, too! Four versions of the same movie for the price of a low bit rate HD "lease". I will own my movies, back them up to my server, and keep the discs forever until they, or I, rot.
Agreed with both. I've have my OLED a couple months now and have purchased around 60 UHD titles. It makes zero sense to me to buy a digital copy... I can get the UHD disc, 1080p disc and digital copy for pretty much the same price and often less. I've bought probably 40 of my 60 movies on Amazon's never ending 3 for $50 sale. That's $16 each... ain't getting digital copies from iTunes for $16 each unless it's a sale.

Only 2 of my titles (Coco, Dunkirk) have I paid more than $20 for... and they also came with both discs and a digital copy.

I'm happy buying discs and keeping Comcast waiting just a little while longer... everyone knows as soon as we hit a streaming only world that ISP rates are going up. I pay about $60 a month now for 250mb down/ 10 mb up speed with a 1TB data cap. I had to purchase unlimited for an extra $50 monthly because the many streaming devices at home (PC, iPads, iPhones) were going over the cap just from the kids streaming Netflix and Youtube.

How long is 1TB a month gonna last streaming uncompressed 4K? I have nothing against streaming... I've ripped my entire disc library of 250+ movies to my PC storage so I can stream movies to the random devices around the house. When I'm watching UHD content on the OLED though... it's disc only.

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post #47 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 11:56 AM
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No one watches a 2.5 hour movie on their phone.
My eldest does (he is 14), his friends do, lots of people do. LOTS.

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #48 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 12:45 PM
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When we built our home theater in 2003 we were complete state of the art. I spent endless hours researching everything until we had it just the way we wanted it.

And then it was done. And we've spent the last 15 years watching movies and TV.

I've replaced the projector twice (last week, in fact, a new JVS DLA-RS520) and the AVR last year. We will occasionally rent a disc from Redbox, but mostly we stream. And we very rarely take a disc down from the shelves of our 1,000 plus movie collection. Back in the early days of our theater we'd search the ads every week and buy a stack of discs, most of them around $5.

But we haven't bought a disc in years. I think the last one I bought was Star Trek Beyond (but mainly because I got free digital copies, too).

I prefer to watch movies and TV shows in our theater, but my wife is just as happy watching the same things on the couch upstairs on a 30", 15 year old Sony. And my adult daughters watch most of their stuff on their iPad Minis or on their MacBooks.

I'd like to sell or donate our movie collection, but my wife is reluctant. She'll probably hang on until they are completely worthless (probably past that point already).

Like Oppo I think that the movie studios will begin looking hard at the costs of producing discs. They'll make the decision to end them, one or two at first, then all of them, all at once. And it will be a few years before many people are ready.

I'm ready now.

 
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post #49 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CptnRandy View Post

Like Oppo I think that the movie studios will begin looking hard at the costs of producing discs. They'll make the decision to end them, one or two at first, then all of them, all at once. And it will be a few years before many people are ready.
I doubt this. If CDs are still being pressed/sold/easy to buy in 2018, I see no reason not to project that some sort of format (DVD, BR, UHD BR) of physical movie won't be readily available in 2028-2038.

Also, if producing the discs really is expensive, then the savings of NOT pressing it really isn't being pass along much to the consumer... you don't have to look REAL hard to find physical movies (that come with ultraviolet codes) that cost ~the same as a digital purchase on Vudu or Amazon... Same with music. A lot of times the CD isn't much (sometimes as little as less than a dollar, generally within $2-$3) more than buying the album digitally...

That's why I still buy them. I'm all about the convenience of digital copies, and I'm all about the quality of the physical media. I rip my CDs losslessly to FLAC, and my movies losslessly to MKV, and on top of that I buy my CDs on amazon and get that free "autorip" of the 256 kbps vbr digital album, and I redeem my UV codes when I get the movie... *best of all worlds*, IMO...

It's honestly surprising to me that other *niche* AVSers don't pay what amounts to a pretty small upcharge to do what I just said....
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post #50 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
In reality, disc-based games have been dead for many years on PC. The vast majority of PC games you purchase as a physical copy are just an empty box with a Steam/UPlay/Origin/Blizzard key to download the game client and installer. Likewise, all the free-to-play, pay-to-win, and arcade-style games are pure digital distro now, too. GOG lets you download and keep the games freely with no copy protection, though, which is really great.

In order to "combat piracy" there are also all these day one "patches" where the version that ships on the disc is a broken POS and you have to download the entire game in order to play it by using the disc itself as the key. So even though it plays off the internal storage, you still need the disc in the drive to play the game.

I feel sorry for people with monthly bandwidth caps, I think I exceeded about 3TB last month up/down between reinstalling most of my Steam games, XboneX games, Netflix, and misc. cloud transfers.
Yep.

Gaming is the one media I've basically dropped physical media all-together on. We buy games on Steam or GeForce now, and we play 'em back on PC or NVidia Shield. I've even got the GeForceNow monthly gaming subscription, which is pretty cool...
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post #51 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 04:09 PM
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I think 4K Disks will be around for a while. Cable/Internet providers are still rolling out and upgrading their connections to the American consumer. Those of us living in an area with the choice to subscribe to fast internet speeds (4K Streams) can move away from physical disk purchases OR decide to purchase online streaming and physical disks.

Everyone who steams movies online should know that your online stream content (purchased/redeemed movies) are not actually owned by you, but essentially leased to you by the digital retailers. For example, FandangoNOW (70% owned by Comcast) states it quite clearly:

https://www.fandango.com/policies/fandangonow-policy

"Content acquired on an EST Basis can typically be watched on a streaming basis for a lengthy period of time (often many years), but ultimately that period may end sooner or later as determined by Fandango. We encourage you to download Content you acquire on an EST Basis so that if Fandango terminates your streaming access, you will still be able to watch the version that you have downloaded. Also, if Content is eligible for inclusion in a Locker Service, we encourage you to link your FandangoNOW Account to that Locker Service before you purchase that Content, so you will be able to stream it through that Locker Service in the future."

FandangoNOW also states a possible "Paywall" in their policy. "We also reserve the right to institute a charge in the future for continued access to Fandango Purchased Content, but notice shall be provided to you prior to instituting such a charge."

The other digital retailers, Vudu, Amazon Video, Google Play and iTunes, have similar, if not more generalized terms and policies regarding your continued access to your digital content.

Now I hope that the "Digital Lockers" such as Movies Anywhere (owned by Disney) will stay as they are and allow free flow of purchased/redeemed movies between the digital retailers. But if I had to bet, I foresee paywalls in the future to access our digital stream movies.
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post #52 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 04:33 PM
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Except for convenience, I do not see much benefit in streaming. With digital codes and the ability to rip titles to your own computer, even that is a small benefit.

The real worry is if that company that holds your digital movies is still going to be in business 10 years from now. Even if they are, they may decide to charge you a yearly "access" charge to use their service to view your movies or listen to your music. I have VCR tapes that still play as long as I have a working VCR. Same thing for my old 33 rpm albums and the same will hold true for Cds, DVDs and BDs.

Remember Flixter? Sure, they allowed to to use another service, but what guarantee that Vudu or Ultraviolet will be around forever. Look what Photobucket did to us if we wanted to post our pictures that they hosted for "free". All this free cloud storage could soon turn into a fee based system. Once everything is streaming, your ISP can increase your fees and there is nothing you can do about it. As for me, I like to be able to touch what I pay for.
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post #53 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 04:34 PM
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I just made a full atmos theater in 1080 not 4K. Atmos disks are only now beginning to be 4K only so if I want atmos I “must buy a 4K disk”. This sucks. Good thing is that all my new disks come with a digital copy which is good for watching on the iPad or small tv while going to bed. 4K streaming is also neglecting the whole atmos also so it doesn’t pay to upgrade my Netflix plan just for atmos.
My point: When the digital era starts to put theater quality (including sound formats!!!!) media on the net, that is when I’ll be full in. Until then it’s bedroom/Ipad quality or disk quality and to me that is a huge gap right now.
Bought 8 4K disks in three weeks “just for atmos” to play on my 1080 projector. Damn marketing people planned this I swear.
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post #54 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 07:52 PM
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From what I have read, the major gains in streaming -- and they are substantial -- are from subscription services and VOD rentals (although VOD actually declined in 2017). The majority of purchased of content are still disks. As has been made clear by many providers, your purchased digital leases are guaranteed for some number of years but will someday expire and/or you may be charged a future fee to view the content.

You have no control or possession of the media like with a disk. And you have no resale after-market like you do with disks.
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post #55 of 361 Old 04-19-2018, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
In order to "combat piracy" there are also all these day one "patches" where the version that ships on the disc is a broken POS and you have to download the entire game in order to play it by using the disc itself as the key. So even though it plays off the internal storage, you still need the disc in the drive to play the game.
No, the reason for day 1 patches is because the lag time means you can fix a lot of bugs. It takes at least 4 months to produce the disc - lets say you want the game out by the holidays (let's make it December). Working backwards, the retailers need it in their warehouses by November so they can send it out to the stores. The pressing factory will turnaround on one to two months so we're at worst into September. But before you can submit to press the game has to be approved, which can take several months, but since you've been doing it, you budget one month for the final disc version to be approved for pressing. So you have to have your game ready in August to get it delivered to stores in December.

And really what you delivered was the best you had - the 4 months from August to December can be used to squash bugs so instead of the buggy mess you had to submit, you had an extra three months to debug, stabilize and fix things (still need to have the approvals).

It works, and you can play the disc version by going offline so the update doesn't happen, but the results generally aren't pretty.

Of course, the other benefit of the disc is you can sell it when you're done. Gamers shortchanged themselves by protesting against the Xbox One original DRM system, which actually allowed people to sell digital copies of games. Sure there were other reasons to oppose it, but we lost a scheme that allowed people to resell digital games. (The hoops like approvals and such were no big deal - at worst it was like you have it now, where you can't resell, but I'm sure after a little while people will start to force publishers to let them resell.) Sony used to advertise the fact you can sell and lend games by sharing the disc, but they certainly encourage you to pay full price for the non shareable digital copy....
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post #56 of 361 Old 04-20-2018, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
From what I have read, the major gains in streaming -- and they are substantial -- are from subscription services and VOD rentals (although VOD actually declined in 2017). The majority of purchased of content are still disks. As has been made clear by many providers, your purchased digital leases are guaranteed for some number of years but will someday expire and/or you may be charged a future fee to view the content.



You have no control or possession of the media like with a disk. And you have no resale after-market like you do with disks.


My 2 cents

I have several hundred DVDs in my collection which I ripped to serve them as streaming via Plex Server running on my NAS.
Recently I changed my tv from a 1080 to a 4K and watching those files upscaled is “atrocious”. Same story if I load the disc in my UBP-X800 4K player.

At least with some SD files I purchased from iTunes, I was able to obtain freely the HD versions. Same story for some HD purchases for which I can stream the 4K version.


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post #57 of 361 Old 04-20-2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
How long is 1TB a month gonna last streaming uncompressed 4K? I have nothing against streaming... I've ripped my entire disc library of 250+ movies to my PC storage so I can stream movies to the random devices around the house. When I'm watching UHD content on the OLED though... it's disc only.
In my area, Comcast Business Class has NO cap and is only ~ $10/mo more than the Internet-only pricing. Also, the speeds advertised are the guaranteed minimum speeds, not burst. It's worth checking out if you haven't already.
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post #58 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 09:43 AM
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Whatever you say! Ha ha ha ha. I've tried with my 12 and 15 year olds and they can tell the difference.

Mind you, I have a $30,000 system (and no, I use expensive speaker wire or power cords with ju ju juice or whatever), but your "ABX tests" are probably done by a dude with a Denon, a $200 7.1 system from Best Buy, and an iPod plugged into it.
Did that condescension come with that $30,000 or did you pay extra for it?
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post #59 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 11:46 AM
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with vinyl making a comeback I don't see why Blu Ray should vanish anytime soon.

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post #60 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 12:02 PM
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Netflix hasn't given up on DVD, jut got a free month offer.
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