When will streaming kill the disc?? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by spencer777 View Post
Netflix hasn't given up on DVD, jut got a free month offer.
Yeah -- I read an article recently that they have a small crew in a little cottage separated out from everybody else on the campus. They know they are not long for the gas chamber ... and they don't get to play in any of the reindeer games that the other employees do. They are like the Forgotten on that campus. :-)
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post #62 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 07:01 PM
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You guys are forgetting one major issue... Less than 2/3 of Americans have access to high speed internet (>24mb/s)... 39% of Americans do not have access to high speed internet. These are users in the rural areas of the country.

I live on O'ahu, the major island in Hawaii. In some areas, the cap on speed is 20 mb/s, other areas it is 200 mb/s. Unfortunately, I live in the 20 mb/s area... My friend who lives 1/2 mile from me, has 200 mb/s... Man, am I envious...

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post #63 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
Wanting and reality are two different things. The future of streaming is a reality.
Exactly. We (as in those who are audio/video enthusiasts) see the market very differently than those who aren't audio/video enthusiasts. A lot of us live in a bubble like situation where we think the majority are buying physical media players and software and moderate to expensive home theater setups. This is becoming less the case, and has been for awhile now. Joe average is perfectly happy with their Netflix-ready t.v. and soundbar. If they even still have dvd's or disks, they're likely fine with using their pre-existing player, or buying one from Walmart for $50 if it's stopped working.
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post #64 of 361 Old 04-22-2018, 10:36 PM
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We'll know that streaming has replaced discs when there are threads that (insert film name here), complain that the download or the streaming video looks teal. Funny and frightening at the same time.
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post #65 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 01:46 PM
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I may have missed it but I do not believe that streaming will apply to ALL videos, especially those that have multiple episodes/chapters on the disc.

Also have not seen any stream/ripper that will have a video that will let one select the language with or without subtitles; and have not seen any ripper that will enable the selection of audio setup prior to playing the video; have not seen any ripper that will allow selection of episodes at will; e.g. play a video like a disc on a player & not thru a computer. Is there any streaming video that allows going back to the menu to select something else to view or change the sound from DD to DTS or whatever?

For audio, I still want to rip for my music library in flac format versus getting it in mp3; and it seems that streaming is for "singles" or tracks instead of an entire album. Not sure that will work well with classical music.

For the hard media discs, all concerns need to be addressed before the discs die. I think the vinyl fad is due to better heavier weight vinyl pressings. The vinyl users should try the records pressed in the '70s with recycled vinyl & hear how the sounds are changed via the warps on the vinyl records. The perceived quality of vinyl is also largely due to the engineers/producers who made changes to the master of what they like. Don't know of any albums using the same master for both vinyl & cd without changes. Remember the 'Direct to Disc' process of recording? Perhaps a company would do a 'Direct to Disc' for vinyl & CD at the same time for comparisons..

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post #66 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
I'd agree. It's coming... but not anytime soon enough to where I am worried about it. I buy physical media exclusively. I like the convenience of streaming to the many devices floating around my home... but when it comes to watching movies on my OLED... it's disc.

Someone posted a chart in one of these discussions last week... about how streaming sales are up 30% and physical media sales are down 14%... but still reached a staggering $4.7B last year. That's a whole lot of BR and DVD disc money... a cash cow the studios will continue to milk for years to come.







Agreed with both. I've have my OLED a couple months now and have purchased around 60 UHD titles. It makes zero sense to me to buy a digital copy... I can get the UHD disc, 1080p disc and digital copy for pretty much the same price and often less. I've bought probably 40 of my 60 movies on Amazon's never ending 3 for $50 sale. That's $16 each... ain't getting digital copies from iTunes for $16 each unless it's a sale.

Only 2 of my titles (Coco, Dunkirk) have I paid more than $20 for... and they also came with both discs and a digital copy.

I'm happy buying discs and keeping Comcast waiting just a little while longer... everyone knows as soon as we hit a streaming only world that ISP rates are going up. I pay about $60 a month now for 250mb down/ 10 mb up speed with a 1TB data cap. I had to purchase unlimited for an extra $50 monthly because the many streaming devices at home (PC, iPads, iPhones) were going over the cap just from the kids streaming Netflix and Youtube.

How long is 1TB a month gonna last streaming uncompressed 4K? I have nothing against streaming... I've ripped my entire disc library of 250+ movies to my PC storage so I can stream movies to the random devices around the house. When I'm watching UHD content on the OLED though... it's disc only.
No one is streaming uncompressed UHD. It would exceed the fastest internet connections by at least an order of magnitude.

But for me I recently started ripping my compressed UHD BD titles to my unRAID servers. And those rips stream without issue over a GigE network. Just like the rips of my 2K BDs. All video content people purchase is compressed.

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post #67 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
Yep.

Gaming is the one media I've basically dropped physical media all-together on. We buy games on Steam or GeForce now, and we play 'em back on PC or NVidia Shield. I've even got the GeForceNow monthly gaming subscription, which is pretty cool...
I went discless with games back in 2012. I don't miss using Discs on my Xbox or PS4 one bit. I love the idea of not having to messing round with discs on my game systems. I only wish we could do the same thing with movies and TV shows. And get the same audio and video quality from streaming services as you can get from a Disc. Well at least for a reasonable price. I guess you can with kaleidescape. But it is very expensive. So for now I will continue ripping my titles Like I've been doing since 2009.

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post #68 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
No one is streaming uncompressed UHD. It would exceed the fastest internet connections by at least an order of magnitude.

But for me I recently started ripping my compressed UHD BD titles to my unRAID servers. And those rips stream without issue over a GigE network. Just like the rips of my 2K BDs. All video content people purchase is compressed.
I never said anyone was streaming uncompressed 4K. My point was 1TB doesn’t last a month streaming compressed 4K and any future uncompressed possibilities are going to eat up present data caps. Of course ISPs are just waiting to raise rates to increase said caps.

The fact all video content people purchase is compressed is exactly why I haven’t spent a nickel on digital purchases. I’ll buy the disc and play said disc. I’ll redeem the digital copy for streaming convenience to the various devices around the house... or I’ll rip my own copy and keep it on my server and not someone else’s.

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post #69 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
Wanting and reality are two different things. The future of streaming is a reality.
It's the post teenagers "lazy" way of doing things. Requires little effort.
Just push a button on their toy phone and presto.

Just wait until the data caps really start.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #70 of 361 Old 04-23-2018, 10:50 PM
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BTW, vinyl isn't dead.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #71 of 361 Old 04-24-2018, 04:56 AM
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If I stream, then it's YouTube and the like, through the Shield.

If I watch a film, it's on a disk. DVD/BD/UHD. There is no streaming service that can match the bitrate or sound quality. And until there is, and until it's everywhere and cheap, disk isn't dead.

And I am one of those people who did buy the Oppo for the very reason that it is pretty much the best at what it does. Once my 18Gbps cables arrive from Monoprice, my Philips will be swapped out for it. And yes, the TV is next...

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post #72 of 361 Old 04-24-2018, 06:11 AM
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I just made a full atmos theater in 1080 not 4K. Atmos disks are only now beginning to be 4K only so if I want atmos I “must buy a 4K disk”. This sucks. Good thing is that all my new disks come with a digital copy which is good for watching on the iPad or small tv while going to bed. 4K streaming is also neglecting the whole atmos also so it doesn’t pay to upgrade my Netflix plan just for atmos.
My point: When the digital era starts to put theater quality (including sound formats!!!!) media on the net, that is when I’ll be full in. Until then it’s bedroom/Ipad quality or disk quality and to me that is a huge gap right now.
Bought 8 4K disks in three weeks “just for atmos” to play on my 1080 projector. Damn marketing people planned this I swear.
I have been really wanting to upgrade to ATMOS for my theater. But after spending several K building my dedicated theater which is 1080p projection system, there is no way I can afford to turn around and upgrade that to 4k. I rip al all my BDs to file server and use Kodi client in the theater. I tried ripping a 4k/Atmos disc and when playing it back it looked "off" so I am stickin with 1080p and non-atmos for now. That said, it looked amazing on my bedroom 4k TV...minus atmos

What I would not give for standard BDs w/ Atmos discs.

I really should have thought all this out better =P
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post #73 of 361 Old 04-24-2018, 07:27 AM
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I see no reason to kill off "physical" ownership... it maybe trendy to use something like a cloud based storage and streaming, but it wont totally make disc's go away... I hope.
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post #74 of 361 Old 04-24-2018, 10:36 AM
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BTW, vinyl isn't dead.
Yes. Vinyl and CD music sales actually surpassed digital music sales last year. That was the first time that happened since 2011. But it was also because more and more people subscribe to a music streaming service now. So they are less likely to buy a digital track since they are able to just play it through the streaming service included with their monthly fee.

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post #75 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 05:47 AM
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Physical media is not going anywhere any time soon. People like to think it is, because "streaming is so prevalant," except the two aren't mutually exclusive. I own thousands of movies, and still stream, too. Hell I even stream a movie I own sometimes.

With the cost of physical media being so insanely cheap to produce now, and studios able to pump them out quickly - not to mention the true quality of a disc over streaming for the real die hard fans, we're going to be seeing physical for years to come. I mean my God, they haven't even stopped producing DVDs yet, and they've been outdated for the better part of a decade.
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post #76 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 05:56 AM
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Until we see 100% true high speed internet coverage in the US AND 100% reliability (which is nigh impossible with current tech), I can't see physical media completely disappearing. Sure, it's definitely taken a hit since streaming has become so prevalent, but even in large metro areas, I'm just not seeing the speeds and reliability yet for me to abandon purchasing movies that reside with me. I do believe that SOMEDAY, we'll see enough bandwidth to stream bit-for-bit, but then we'll still be reliant on servers and licensing rights, which has always been a major annoyance of mine when it comes to streaming.
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post #77 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 06:23 AM
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Physical media is not going anywhere any time soon. People like to think it is, because "streaming is so prevalant," except the two aren't mutually exclusive. I own thousands of movies, and still stream, too. Hell I even stream a movie I own sometimes.

With the cost of physical media being so insanely cheap to produce now, and studios able to pump them out quickly - not to mention the true quality of a disc over streaming for the real die hard fans, we're going to be seeing physical for years to come. I mean my God, they haven't even stopped producing DVDs yet, and they've been outdated for the better part of a decade.
They haven't stopped making DVDs because that is their bread and butter. DVDs still sell more than BDs. The majority of people that buy discs still buy DVDs, not BDs.

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post #78 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 07:37 AM
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It seems the only ones that don't buy/rent DVD's are the majority of members here.

The "Cloud" concept is nothing but 'hot air'. It's not in your possession, you still have to rely on it getting to you. A 'fast' connection can still be problematic.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #79 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 07:39 AM
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They haven't stopped making DVDs because that is their bread and butter. DVDs still sell more than BDs. The majority of people that buy discs still buy DVDs, not BDs.
Absolutely boggles my mind that a 20+ year old format is still selling in such numbers! Literally two generations behind the times.
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post #80 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 07:43 AM
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It's not in your possession, you still have to rely on it getting to you.
Plus you have to rely on the streamer ALLOWING you to watch it. Disney's a great example of a company who loves to pull the plug on certain films frequently. You know. The so called "Vault"? I am so happy I bought many certain films over the years that they have since pulled not only from store shelves, but from Netflix and other streaming sources as well. They're definitely not the only ones, but one of the easiest examples.
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post #81 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 08:57 AM
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Discs will still be there for enthusiasts. A 4K UHD HDR stream still isn't as good as a disc with less compression and typically lossless audio formatted in Atmos or dts:X.

For the masses streaming is the end game, but much like the vinyl market for audio there will be certain group of enthusiasts that want titles on a disc.

If the studios want digital ownership to take over they need to price it appropriately. I don't mind paying $25-30 for packaged media with multiple discs and a digital access code. I won't pay that for something that has no intrinsic value. You can't resell a digital license that's tied to your account. You can't will your collection to someone. If the digital locker model gets overhauled for a new system there's no guarantee your digital titles are still going to be there in a new system. Digital titles are highly compressed and many times are limited in their sound format options. For all these reasons the most I'm willing to pay for viewing license with no disc/cloud only access is $10.

Much like iTunes cannibalized album revenue for the music industry, the movie studios can't expect to sell a viewing license for the same price as a multi-disc package.
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post #82 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 11:59 AM
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Discs will still be there for enthusiasts. A 4K UHD HDR stream still isn't as good as a disc with less compression and typically lossless audio formatted in Atmos or dts:X.

For the masses streaming is the end game, but much like the vinyl market for audio there will be certain group of enthusiasts that want titles on a disc.

If the studios want digital ownership to take over they need to price it appropriately. I don't mind paying $25-30 for packaged media with multiple discs and a digital access code. I won't pay that for something that has no intrinsic value. You can't resell a digital license that's tied to your account. You can't will your collection to someone. If the digital locker model gets overhauled for a new system there's no guarantee your digital titles are still going to be there in a new system. Digital titles are highly compressed and many times are limited in their sound format options. For all these reasons the most I'm willing to pay for viewing license with no disc/cloud only access is $10.

Much like iTunes cannibalized album revenue for the music industry, the movie studios can't expect to sell a viewing license for the same price as a multi-disc package.
The Digital system did get overhauled. That's Movies Anywhere. And all my previous Ultra Violet titles got transferred over to Movies Anywhere.

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post #83 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 04:24 PM
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It seems the only ones that don't buy/rent DVD's are the majority of members here.

The "Cloud" concept is nothing but 'hot air'. It's not in your possession, you still have to rely on it getting to you. A 'fast' connection can still be problematic.
I have never bought a digital copy of a video. Then only ones I "own" were either free or from digital codes included with my physical media purchase.

My HOA has an extensive video library-mostly DVD-for free loan. I picked up a couple a few days ago and IMO, the sound dynamics exceeded and the video quality at least rivaled the streaming content that I watch on Amazon or Netflix. Yes a BD is sharper, but a well produced DVD can look pretty good too.

I just can not justify paying as much or more for digital version that I do not physically possess.
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post #84 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 06:37 PM
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I have never bought a digital copy of a video. Then only ones I "own" were either free or from digital codes included with my physical media purchase.

My HOA has an extensive video library-mostly DVD-for free loan. I picked up a couple a few days ago and IMO, the sound dynamics exceeded and the video quality at least rivaled the streaming content that I watch on Amazon or Netflix. Yes a BD is sharper, but a well produced DVD can look pretty good too.

I just can not justify paying as much or more for digital version that I do not physically possess.
I've purchased dozens of digital versions. But these are titles I wanted to rent and not purchase. And it was cheaper to purchase the UV code than to pay $6 to rent them. I'll typically get those codes for only $2 or $3 or $4. So they are very inexpensive. Or I might pay as much as $6 for the UV code, the same as the rental price. if it's really a movie I want to see right away that I don't want to buy the disc for. And there are plenty of titles I still buy the disc for. I'm around 200 UHD BD titles now from purchases since February 2016.

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post #85 of 361 Old 05-01-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I'll typically get those codes for only $2 or $3 or $4. So they are very inexpensive. Or I might pay as much as $6 for the UV code, the same as the rental price. .
Exactly. If digital versions were a lot cheaper than physical version, I would re-think the choice of what to buy. As far as UV codes, it is very likely that it is illegal to sell then and keep the disk. Are we allowed to buy the BD/DVD/UV code pack and sell 2 of the three? If it becomes a problem for the studios, they could crack down for copyright infringement.
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post #86 of 361 Old 05-02-2018, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by golfster View Post
Exactly. If digital versions were a lot cheaper than physical version, I would re-think the choice of what to buy. As far as UV codes, it is very likely that it is illegal to sell then and keep the disk. Are we allowed to buy the BD/DVD/UV code pack and sell 2 of the three? If it becomes a problem for the studios, they could crack down for copyright infringement.
No idea but people have been selling these codes for many, many years. Basically ever since they have been included with the BD titles, there was a secondary market for the digtial codes.

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post #87 of 361 Old 05-02-2018, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfster View Post
Exactly. If digital versions were a lot cheaper than physical version, I would re-think the choice of what to buy. As far as UV codes, it is very likely that it is illegal to sell then and keep the disk. Are we allowed to buy the BD/DVD/UV code pack and sell 2 of the three? If it becomes a problem for the studios, they could crack down for copyright infringement.


No, it is not illegal to sell the codes. It is not illegal to sell them commercially even... https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/1...ital-downloads


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post #88 of 361 Old 05-02-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
No, it is not illegal to sell the codes. It is not illegal to sell them commercially even... https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/1...ital-downloads


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That is my opinion also. I feel that if you purchase a bundle, that you are intitled to do what you want with the parts. Does not matter what the items are. The studios are probably lax because they want us to go all digital. It is much easier to sell or trade a physical disk than to transfer a digital code one you have redeemed it into your account. This could benefit the studios in the future if we can not sell or trade.
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post #89 of 361 Old 05-02-2018, 11:08 AM
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Disc will be a medium people buy and rentals will go away. 5G is more of a unicorn at this point once you read the technical tests and it won't cheap, most of the talk price of wars between 5g and cable internet are just talk at this point. The main problem with the internet is everyone wants more and more from it but no one wants to invest in technical improvements. Discs will be with us for a long time, the next time your in Target check all the new DVD's you can buy, look at all the DVD's in a Redbox rental station.
Once you leave the the echo chambers of the internet and step into the real world it's very much still a physical media world. Critical mass will come someday but to the average person it way down on their list.
In a nutshell discs will be with us for some time, invest in them and don't worry. Most people would never buy a high end disc player ever, hence the Oppo situation.


From what I see it's actually the opposite. For anyone under 30 discs are ancient. All the media at your fingertips is where it's at today. Quality plays second fiddle to convenience.

I think the folks that are concerned about discs are the hobbyist's.

You could also make the case that the over say 50-60 crowd might prefer discs just because they're not looking to learn a new system.
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post #90 of 361 Old 05-02-2018, 03:29 PM
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I’ve posted this elsewhere on AVS.
I’m a disc buyer myself, but the data and buying trends tell the story



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