When will streaming kill the disc?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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When will streaming kill the disc??

Hey guys, over in the demise of OPPO thread so much on and off about streaming being the future of high quality delivery of movies and binge watching seasons of tv programming.

Personally I see the bright future quickly going dark in a very short time once we hit critical mass.

There is growth in this area no doubt and it is using bandwidth. Facetime and other "video calling" apps along with music streaming continue to grow in popularity. More and more businesses are getting away from internal and private networks and going on to the public web. Add to that the growth of streaming services that aren't supplying these "high quality" movie streams but are bringing our day to day programs that used to come over DBS, OTA or cable.

5G brings the promise of more bandwidth without the expense of the backbone.......but will it deliver and at what cost? No current 4G provider I am aware of is offering unlimited or uncapped video streaming above 480p.

Downloadable purchases may have a strong future but does widespread 4K or even 2K streaming hold up against disc based media as the bandwidth is slowly eaten up, ISPs start favoring certain content providers, and push prices up for our network pipe as they continue to lose legacy cable subscribers as cord cutting continues to grow?

UHD maybe the final physical format we see.......but I can't imagine the death of silver platters over the next couple of decades.

Please discuss but please keep it friendly........we don't all see things the same.
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post #2 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 07:10 PM
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Disc will be a medium people buy and rentals will go away. 5G is more of a unicorn at this point once you read the technical tests and it won't cheap, most of the talk price of wars between 5g and cable internet are just talk at this point. The main problem with the internet is everyone wants more and more from it but no one wants to invest in technical improvements. Discs will be with us for a long time, the next time your in Target check all the new DVD's you can buy, look at all the DVD's in a Redbox rental station.
Once you leave the the echo chambers of the internet and step into the real world it's very much still a physical media world. Critical mass will come someday but to the average person it way down on their list.
In a nutshell discs will be with us for some time, invest in them and don't worry. Most people would never buy a high end disc player ever, hence the Oppo situation.
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post #3 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 07:17 PM
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I see things totally different. Streaming IS the present & future. Silver platters will be around for another decade, maybe, if all the stars align. Personally, I think you are not very smart asking to buy that Oppo for sale that you replied to. Unless you have more dollars than sense [joke, NOT an insult].

But seriously, short of having a massive SACD collection, I see zero reason [no matter how much of a 'purist' one may consider oneself] to spend so much on a dead format, just like HD DVD [and I know, I was a HD DVD fanboy] and suggest you put that money away for a rainy day instead.

Your talk of 4G & 5G leads me to believe you are only concerned with mobile data. If that's the case, I suggest you find a better and more stable internet source. No one watches a 2.5 hour movie on their phone.
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post #4 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
I see things totally different. Streaming IS the present & future. Silver platters will be around for another decade, maybe, if all the stars align. Personally, I think you are not very smart asking to buy that Oppo for sale that you replied to. Unless you have more dollars than sense [joke, NOT an insult].

But seriously, short of having a massive SACD collection, I see zero reason [no matter how much of a 'purist' one may consider oneself] to spend so much on a dead format, just like HD DVD [and I know, I was a HD DVD fanboy] and suggest you put that money away for a rainy day instead.

Your talk of 4G & 5G leads me to believe you are only concerned with mobile data. If that's the case, I suggest you find a better and more stable internet source. No one watches a 2.5 hour movie on their phone.
Dead formats = Hobbies
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post #5 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
Dead formats = Hobbies
Dead formats = waste of resources

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post #6 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 07:49 PM
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I stream new rentals via iTunes or Vudu but I buy UHD discs for movies I want to own and rewatch. Presently, HDR, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are maximized in my HT only via discs. Unless the streaming devices deliver all these formats without buffering (not my bandwidth problem), discs live.
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post #7 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
Dead formats = waste of resources
Dead formats...Vinyl, CD, DVD, Blu ray, Analog...Are those torches I see in the night in the distance..gotta run..

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post #8 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 08:16 PM
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As long as the US is run by monopolies and a govt that protects corporate profits, I hope never. We already have daylight robbery ripoff rates and terrible broadband speeds compared to most countries, with zero oversight. Net Neutrality is dead. Anyone who wants streaming to succeed in this environment is really naive or not worried about money.

There is absolutely no reason why we can't have national broadband with no data caps for a fraction of the money we as taxpayers have already payed to the ISPs for things they lied about and have simply stolen. And if that happens I'm all in favor of streaming.
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post #9 of 339 Old 04-12-2018, 09:57 PM
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Wanting and reality are two different things. The future of streaming is a reality.

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post #10 of 339 Old 04-13-2018, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
I see things totally different. Streaming IS the present & future. Silver platters will be around for another decade, maybe, if all the stars align. Personally, I think you are not very smart asking to buy that Oppo for sale that you replied to. Unless you have more dollars than sense [joke, NOT an insult].

But seriously, short of having a massive SACD collection, I see zero reason [no matter how much of a 'purist' one may consider oneself] to spend so much on a dead format, just like HD DVD [and I know, I was a HD DVD fanboy] and suggest you put that money away for a rainy day instead.

Your talk of 4G & 5G leads me to believe you are only concerned with mobile data. If that's the case, I suggest you find a better and more stable internet source. No one watches a 2.5 hour movie on their phone.
The 5G reference was only to answer to the argument of "high speed internet" without the wired infrastructure needed to supply it. ESPECIALLY the "last mile" that is so very expensive.

For me....I rarely, like a few times a year maybe, watch anything on mobile device of any kind. I am very fortunate to have fairly highspeed internet through cable provider with no apparent caps or throttling. I watched a movie on VUDU this week and it looked as good as anything on TV.

As far as the OPPO I was asking about.......I have only a 1080p plasma and from what I have read the Darbee processing in that unit will bring out the best possible output of my display. I currently have a BDP93 and would like to have a newer player as I don't plan to update my display as long as it works as well as it does.

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post #11 of 339 Old 04-13-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
When will streaming kill the disc??
It already has for most people. Around this forum, where everyone wants the highest resolution, highest bitrate video possible, the disc is probably still preferred. Most regular folks can't tell the difference between a BD and Netflix's stream as quality goes. So for them, it's just the convenience of pointing and clicking.

Streaming has already cut the cable for a lot of people, even on this forum.
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post #12 of 339 Old 04-13-2018, 07:06 AM
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well ..until datacaps are gone - disc-less media will be hogtied. It doesn't take many 4k movies to burn up ALL of the unlimited plans America has to offer.

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post #13 of 339 Old 04-13-2018, 07:28 AM
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$6 to stream a new movie or $2 at Redbox and get better quality . It will be a long long time.
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post #14 of 339 Old 04-13-2018, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I love the convo and differing views on this.....whole reason I started this thread.

I think physical media in some form (probably disc) will be here for some time to come. To me opening a new CD or DVD was one of my favorite things. The presentation of most Blu-Rays I purchased left a lot to be desired........I do miss the time, thought and effort that goes into the packaging.

Vinyl is seeing a resurgence, my 17 year old son bemoans the fact we have no local record stores.....he was an iTunes junky for years and now does not buy any MP3s.....BUT does pay for Spotify.
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post #15 of 339 Old 04-14-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post
I love the convo and differing views on this.....whole reason I started this thread.

I think physical media in some form (probably disc) will be here for some time to come. To me opening a new CD or DVD was one of my favorite things. The presentation of most Blu-Rays I purchased left a lot to be desired........I do miss the time, thought and effort that goes into the packaging.

Vinyl is seeing a resurgence, my 17 year old son bemoans the fact we have no local record stores.....he was an iTunes junky for years and now does not buy any MP3s.....BUT does pay for Spotify.
Wait till he has a party and discovers people dancing knocks the stylus off a record, the more things change..the more they stay the same.
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post #16 of 339 Old 04-14-2018, 11:40 PM
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It already has for most people. Around this forum, where everyone wants the highest resolution, highest bitrate video possible, the disc is probably still preferred. Most regular folks can't tell the difference between a BD and Netflix's stream as quality goes. So for them, it's just the convenience of pointing and clicking.

Streaming has already cut the cable for a lot of people, even on this forum.
I know some polls were conducted on the "streaming vs physical media" discussions for a few years now here on AVS. I think most people, like myself, are in a hybrid area right now with owning subscriptions to a few streaming services while also throwing the occasional disk into a player. I am in the process of backing up all of my Blurays right now so that I can stream them over my own network because Plex makes it very easy to organize your media.

I guess most peoples opinions on the matter are based on historical trends with media platforms and the current situation that works best for them. I think the blu-ray and UHD Disk will be around for sometime as long as there is a demand for it. I have not found a movie streaming company yet that would allow me access to my own personal collection of movies short of signing up for a bunch of different services. The new trend of being able to download content from streaming companies for offline viewing is moving closer pushing out physical media.

Still, a good portion of the world does not have the types of speeds and access that would be required to pull everything from the internet. I can assure you that families in Iraq and Afghanistan still get around the TV at night and put a DVD on to watch a family night movie.
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post #17 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 08:38 AM
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When you don't have to run to experts on forums to learn how to match the audio video quality of physical media on your latest streaming device without side loading, firmware updating or unofficial add-ons..
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post #18 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 09:43 AM
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Certainly, the speed of the net has grown by leaps and bounds over the years, but companies are interested in big compromises so although I can get 4k over streaming, the quality is palpably different from that which I can get via 4K Blu Ray on my Oppo. Even though the demands are much less, the same can be said for streaming audio. I get decent results from Tidal, but Apple Music, which has no excuse for it, is still stuck at an awful bit rate.

Someone is going to show up and be the new Oppo. I doubt CDs will ever see a renaissance the way that turntables have, but I bet now that we have hit 4K Blu Ray, it's hard to conceive of TVs ever getting that much better (I know, 8k…) that it'd be a big difference.
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post #19 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 12:15 PM
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... Once you leave the the echo chambers of the internet and step into the real world it's very much still a physical media world....
In 2017, it was not a physical media world, but a predominantly streaming world:

"According to a report from trade organization Digital Entertainment Group (DEG), 2017 was not king to the physical media category of home video revenue. Sales of discs declined by 14 percent overall to take in $4.7 billion in revenue. This follows on from a decline of 10 percent in 2016. Beyond sales, rentals from stores and kiosks such as Red Box also suffered as revenue fell to $2 billion, a decline of 17 percent over 2016.

Video-on-demand rentals declined as well in 2017 falling 7 percent to $1.9 billion after actually enjoying some growth in 2016.

Not all of the news was bad, however. Deg this year expanded its monitoring of subscription streaming numbers beyond Netflix to include other providers such as Hulu, Amazon, HBO Go and CBS All Access. The numbers grew by 30 percent to bring in around $9.5 billion."

https://www.technobuffalo.com/2018/0...reaming-soars/

My physical media players have been disconnected and stowed away for a few years now. Too much hassle for marginal benefits, IMO.
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post #20 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 12:21 PM
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... the quality is palpably different from that which I can get via 4K Blu Ray on my Oppo. Even though the demands are much less, the same can be said for streaming audio. I get decent results from Tidal, but Apple Music, which has no excuse for it, is still stuck at an awful bit rate....
"Awful bit rate?!!"

It's high enough that for identical recordings, in volume-matched, controlled environment ABX tests, people cannot reliably tell a difference.

Just like with power cords and speaker wire, the fact that you can measure differences does not mean that you can hear them.
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post #21 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 12:34 PM
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Wait till he has a party and discovers people dancing knocks the stylus off a record, the more things change..the more they stay the same.
LOL, when do you think people that age will look up from their phones long enough to get off the couch and dance?

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post #22 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 12:47 PM
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"Awful bit rate?!!"

It's high enough that for identical recordings, in volume-matched, controlled environment ABX tests, people cannot reliably tell a difference.

Just like with power cords and speaker wire, the fact that you can measure differences does not mean that you can hear them.
Whatever you say! Ha ha ha ha. I've tried with my 12 and 15 year olds and they can tell the difference.

Mind you, I have a $30,000 system (and no, I use expensive speaker wire or power cords with ju ju juice or whatever), but your "ABX tests" are probably done by a dude with a Denon, a $200 7.1 system from Best Buy, and an iPod plugged into it.
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post #23 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 01:43 PM
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When I can get access to all of the immersive audio tracks produced for the movies via a streaming service I will stop buying discs but until then I will keep watching discs to get access to them. I have already stopped buying CDs since I can’t tell the difference between Spotify and a lossless FLAC file on my modest system and I am perfectly fine with that. While the video quality of BD and UHD is clearly better the quality of Netflix 4k and Vudu HDX is good enough to me. Now if only we could have the Atmos and DTSX soundtracks to go along with them I would be fine with not buying any more discs.


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post #24 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post
In 2017, it was not a physical media world, but a predominantly streaming world
That's what I'm saying.

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Whatever you say! Ha ha ha ha. I've tried with my 12 and 15 year olds and they can tell the difference.

Mind you, I have a $30,000 system (and no, I use expensive speaker wire or power cords with ju ju juice or whatever), but your "ABX tests" are probably done by a dude with a Denon, a $200 7.1 system from Best Buy, and an iPod plugged into it.
The vast majority of viewers are not watching on even a Denon with a cheap set of speakers. The average person buys a big TV, plugs it in, and watches it with all the factory settings and listens through the TV speakers. Some percentage then gets a soundbar. A small percentage run things through a receiver.
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post #25 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 02:23 PM
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Whatever you say! Ha ha ha ha. I've tried with my 12 and 15 year olds and they can tell the difference.

Mind you, I have a $30,000 system (and no, I use expensive speaker wire or power cords with ju ju juice or whatever), but your "ABX tests" are probably done by a dude with a Denon, a $200 7.1 system from Best Buy, and an iPod plugged into it.
You've tried what exactly with your "12 and 15 year olds?" A proper ABX test?

If not, then it's most like that you heard differences in amplitude and deemed the louder source to be "better." It's also likely that the salesman who sold you this "$30,000 system" went "Ha ha ha" after you left the store....

Speakers are a valid component to spend more money on. Good room correction can make a positive difference.

But the difference between a run of the mill Denon receiver and expensive monoblocks is unlikely to be audible, as long as both brands are designed and operating properly and are not distorting. As there is no testable evidence that there is audible difference between well mastered, identical high bit rate lossy and lossless files, or 24/192 audio and 16/44 audio (actually, 24/192 would likely introduce unwanted noise).

But nobody has lost money betting on the gullibility of "true audiophiles...."

Not absolutely sure what you really said about the speaker wires or the power cord.

Cheers.

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post #26 of 339 Old 04-15-2018, 07:53 PM
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LOL, when do you think people that age will look up from their phones long enough to get off the couch and dance?
Well we'll just have to pick the slack then won't we. Yo Mr. DJ hit it !
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post #27 of 339 Old 04-17-2018, 04:21 PM
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Streaming and lossy data compression (Pied Piper-esque) are the future...physical media will eventually die off as being too expensive to mass-produce and too un-environmental friendly

People will one day look back and think "you played that low-res 4k crap on discs?"

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post #28 of 339 Old 04-17-2018, 04:57 PM
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lets be honest, majority of people dont need more than FHD and or DD+ 5.1
so as the internet speeds will rise, so does the streaming market

hopefully we wont see the end of discs in the near future, because i wont look at that ugly streaming .... movies compared to UHD discs.

and please dont tell me that i cant see the difference when sitting 3,5 metres from 130 inches screen
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post #29 of 339 Old 04-17-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by spencer777 View Post
$6 to stream a new movie or $2 at Redbox and get better quality . It will be a long long time.
There is the problem. At Amazon, it often costs as much or more to buy a digital version of a movie than to purchase the disk. Same with Kindle versions of books vs the physical copy. Ditto for music. Makes no sense-no cost of material and no shipping costs. If I am going to spend the same for the physical version as it costs me to stream it, I will pick the disk any time.
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post #30 of 339 Old 04-17-2018, 10:13 PM
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I stream new rentals via iTunes or Vudu but I buy UHD discs for movies I want to own and rewatch. Presently, HDR, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are maximized in my HT only via discs. Unless the streaming devices deliver all these formats without buffering (not my bandwidth problem), discs live.
I agree. The sound of the digital products does not yet match up to the sound (and oftentimes, the picture) that we get from physical media. On the other hand for those of us that are gamers, I see little issue with using digital media all of the time for that. It loads faster (plus no disc required) and if your collection is damaged or stolen, in most cases you can just download it again. Relocating and repurchasing the discs again could be an expensive proposition whereas with the low price of HDD's, when you move or need to replace your collection, it's all on the hard drive, most likely in the console. Again, this is ideal for gamers where sound is important but not the biggest consideration. For features, UHD and blu-ray provide much better sound options if you have a home theater for sure. So I don't see physical media leaving anytime soon.
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