New Zidoo Z9S and Z10 (RTD1296 SoC) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 12:43 AM
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srt files

Does Z10 support srt files as subtitles when playing mkv files ?

from description

Powerful subtitle function, support any change of fonts, a variety of color effect optional, support online download subtitles;Support both SUP and ASS effects captions.
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post #32 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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The review was updated with a YouTube video

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post #33 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 11:08 AM
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Has anyone had a chance to strap a Vertex onto one yet to see what the frame-rate is?

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post #34 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Has anyone had a chance to strap a Vertex onto one yet to see what the frame-rate is?
I will do soon (I hope) ...

For UHD, BD,MKV and 3D playback.
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post #35 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
Some silly questions for Z10 box.
How big of the HDD (capacity) it allowed?

I have a lot of ripped MKV at home, I am debating whether to have put them all on the HDD then insert into the Z10 and watch from there or put them all on the external HDD and connect it to the router, I think that way, getting the Z9S is enough (hope the Z9S does support SMB or DLNA). What's your thought?

If I have the HDD in the Z10, if I want to add more ripped MKV to it, how do I do it? Can it be accessed for the network?
I am using on my Z10 an internal 12TB Seagate Ironwolf and a 10TB Seagate Ironwolf attached to the SATA input. Works without any problem.
If I want to add a new file I am copying it from a USB memory stick to the hard drives.
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post #36 of 1425 Old 11-07-2018, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
I will do soon (I hope) ...

For UHD, BD,MKV and 3D playback.

That'd be interesting to see - I found the X9S playing out at 23.978fps which causes a frame repeat every 8.33 minutes, the impact of which is dependent on what's on screen at the time - a fairly static shot and the repeat goes by unnoticed, but on a panning shot, very noticeable.


Interestingly, my X9S shows 23.978 at both 4K 12-bit 422 and 444 whereas my Dune Pro shows 23.981 at 4K 12-bit 444 and exhibits a frame repeat every 3.33 mins but at 422 it plays out at 23.973 which obviously cannot repeat (it's less than 23.976) but also doesn't seem to miss a frame either.
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post #37 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
That'd be interesting to see - I found the X9S playing out at 23.978fps which causes a frame repeat every 8.33 minutes, the impact of which is dependent on what's on screen at the time - a fairly static shot and the repeat goes by unnoticed, but on a panning shot, very noticeable.


Interestingly, my X9S shows 23.978 at both 4K 12-bit 422 and 444 whereas my Dune Pro shows 23.981 at 4K 12-bit 444 and exhibits a frame repeat every 3.33 mins but at 422 it plays out at 23.973 which obviously cannot repeat (it's less than 23.976) but also doesn't seem to miss a frame either.
You got these results from an HDFury device as well?
My unit is still sealed so i am in search of free time

What i wanted to know is if the theoretical 23.976 output can be correctly "measured" bt Vertex. Maybe it reads 23.981 or somenthing similar like in your case.
It is a tricky thing to do if the repeated frame occurs in a static scene. I guess the closer to 23.976, the better.

I will update in this thread.
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post #38 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
You got these results from an HDFury device as well?
My unit is still sealed so i am in search of free time

What i wanted to know is if the theoretical 23.976 output can be correctly "measured" bt Vertex. Maybe it reads 23.981 or somenthing similar like in your case.
It is a tricky thing to do if the repeated frame occurs in a static scene. I guess the closer to 23.976, the better.

I will update in this thread.

Yes indeed I'm using a Vertex and as far as I know it measures the frame rate very accurately - I bought it to control projector modes in a Crestron system on an Nvidia shield but I thought it'd be interesting to see how the multitude of media players I've been collecting over the last few months behaved.


With the 1295 players it seems that if the frame rate is greater than 23.976 then you get repeated frames every few minutes according to the formula:


y = 1/60(x-23.976)


Where y = interval (mins) & x = true frame rate (fps)


Strangely, if the frame rate is less than 23.976, you don't seem to get the expected dropped frames - or at least I've not noticed any. (this is the case with the Dune at 4K422 but not 444, and typically 422 exhibits chroma banding!)


So as I said, it'd be interesting to see results from a 1296 player like the Z9S although to be honest, I don't expect any difference because the architecture is the same as the 1295 with only the addition of more IO.
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post #39 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Yes indeed I'm using a Vertex and as far as I know it measures the frame rate very accurately - I bought it to control projector modes in a Crestron system on an Nvidia shield but I thought it'd be interesting to see how the multitude of media players I've been collecting over the last few months behaved.


With the 1295 players it seems that if the frame rate is greater than 23.976 then you get repeated frames every few minutes according to the formula:


y = 1/60(x-23.976)


Where y = interval (mins) & x = true frame rate (fps)


Strangely, if the frame rate is less than 23.976, you don't seem to get the expected dropped frames - or at least I've not noticed any.


So as I said, it'd be interesting to see results from a 1296 player like the Z9S although to be honest, I don't expect any difference because the architecture is the same as the 1295 with only the addition of more IO.
I will try to revert as soon as possible
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post #40 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkonst2509 View Post
I am using on my Z10 an internal 12TB Seagate Ironwolf and a 10TB Seagate Ironwolf attached to the SATA input. Works without any problem.
If I want to add a new file I am copying it from a USB memory stick to the hard drives.
Oh, wow, 12TB internal + 10TB external. You must have thousands of 4k/1080p movies. I have 3TB and I thought it's a lot. LOL
About the copying files, it's kind of inconvenience, isn't it. It would be great if we can move files directly from the PC to the Z10 HDD.
Anyway, about the performance, how does it compare to the Nvidia Shield TV?
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post #41 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
Oh, wow, 12TB internal + 10TB external. You must have thousands of 4k/1080p movies. I have 3TB and I thought it's a lot. LOL
About the copying files, it's kind of inconvenience, isn't it. It would be great if we can move files directly from the PC to the Z10 HDD.
Anyway, about the performance, how does it compare to the Nvidia Shield TV?
The other possibility to copy files is to take the hard drive, put it into a USB 3 hub (Sabrent USB 3.1 to SATA External Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5 or 3.5in HDD) and connect it to your PC.
But I agree with you, the Himedia Q10 Pro can be directly connected to a PC, and it would be nice to have that function on the Z10.
When it comes to performance, I don't have the Shield, but I have the Q10 Pro and the Egreat A10 and it certainly beats both of those.
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post #42 of 1425 Old 11-08-2018, 12:30 PM
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Question Can is Z9 play .m3u Music playlist files? If not, what else can they use?

Hi all,
I bought my Z9 after my popcorn hour C-200 died a few months ago. I'm really enjoying the Z9 and having access to my many media files, especially music! I have quite a few .m3u playlist files but the Z9 doesn't open them, should it? I thought I read somewhere where the Z9 can play that type of playlist file. If not, how else can I create playlists in the Z9? Also, is there a downloadable user manual for it? Thanks!

Dan G in CT
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post #43 of 1425 Old 11-09-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
The review was updated with a YouTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6noEjrAM7lQ
Just watch the clip half way through and has a few curious questions
HDMI video, I only see it lists up to 1080p 60Hz, NO 4K rate?
HDMI audio, I don't see "bitstream" or "passthrough" option, is it not capable?
Youtube app only supports up to 1080p, no 4k?
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post #44 of 1425 Old 11-09-2018, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
Just watch the clip half way through and has a few curious questions
HDMI video, I only see it lists up to 1080p 60Hz, NO 4K rate?
HDMI audio, I don't see "bitstream" or "passthrough" option, is it not capable?
Youtube app only supports up to 1080p, no 4k?
The resolution limitation has to do with the capturing device. It properly goes all the way up to [email protected]
The RAW option is the one. All audio codecs are supported, including ATMOS and DTS X.
A You-Tube app is not pre-installed (or Google Play). It was sideloaded to check the performance. Perhaps with the new FW that includes Play Store, it can go up to 4K (not sure though)
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post #45 of 1425 Old 11-09-2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
The resolution limitation has to do with the capturing device. It properly goes all the way up to [email protected]
The RAW option is the one. All audio codecs are supported, including ATMOS and DTS X.
A You-Tube app is not pre-installed (or Google Play). It was sideloaded to check the performance. Perhaps with the new FW that includes Play Store, it can go up to 4K (not sure though)
Oh, OK,
Got it.
Thanks m8
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post #46 of 1425 Old 11-10-2018, 06:03 PM
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I was looking at the dune 4k pro but the lack of proper firmware releases and bluray menu support i am now looking at this zidoo z9,and from what i read it looks good,however can anyone test if the bluray menu function actually works in this device? I am only going to use it for 1080p full blurays BDMV format and 3D if it supports MVC in MKV format?

Thank you

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post #47 of 1425 Old 11-16-2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
I will try to revert as soon as possible

I couldn't help myself - I ordered a Z9S to test..


With 4K 23.976fps 10-bit HDR video I found:


12-bit 422 and 10-bit 444 both play out at 23.974fps which is the closest of any player I've seen and the same as the HiMedia Q10 Pro. Nvidia Shield, Oppo 203 and Panasonic 820 are next best at 23.973fps.


I didn't bother testing 8-bit as you'd never use that anyway.


12-bit 422 exhibits chroma banding the same as all the 1295 players as I would expect and 10-bit 444 does not, again, as expected.


An odd bug at the moment seems to be that you can't set 12-bit 444 - even if chosen in setup, it still plays out at 10-bit 444.
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post #48 of 1425 Old 11-16-2018, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
I couldn't help myself - I ordered a Z9S to test..


With 4K 23.976fps 10-bit HDR video I found:


12-bit 422 and 10-bit 444 both play out at 23.974fps which is the closest of any player I've seen and the same as the HiMedia Q10 Pro. Nvidia Shield, Oppo 203 and Panasonic 820 are next best at 23.973fps.


I didn't bother testing 8-bit as you'd never use that anyway.


12-bit 422 exhibits chroma banding the same as all the 1295 players as I would expect and 10-bit 444 does not, again, as expected.


An odd bug at the moment seems to be that you can't set 12-bit 444 - even if chosen in setup, it still plays out at 10-bit 444.
Wow, so it sounds like the framerate/frame skip issue is most likely hardware, as seemingly all Realtek 1295 devices exhibit the same problem. However, it is fixed in the 1296 SOC. Is that your conclusion?

If the 1296 is using a new SDK and there will be a new SDK for the 1295, there is a chance there could be a fix the issue. Otherwise, there is no hope.

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post #49 of 1425 Old 11-16-2018, 08:17 AM
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Think 23.974fps is the same as with previous-gen X9S. This does give you about 4 microstutters in a 2-hour movie. With 3D ISO/MVC, Zidoo seems to do perfect 23.976. With 1080p & 4K 2D, not quite.

The new RTD1296 doesn't appear to add any improvements for video performance, rather just connectivity. I also have a Zidoo X20 with the same video issues.

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post #50 of 1425 Old 11-16-2018, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
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Wow, so it sounds like the framerate/frame skip issue is most likely hardware, as seemingly all Realtek 1295 devices exhibit the same problem. However, it is fixed in the 1296 SOC. Is that your conclusion?

If the 1296 is using a new SDK and there will be a new SDK for the 1295, there is a chance there could be a fix the issue. Otherwise, there is no hope.

I've always thought it's a hardware issue but I've never been able to take any empirical measurements until I recently bought an HDFury Vertex, and assuming it's accurate (and I believe it to be so), it's a very useful tool.


All the 1295 players I have (Zappiti, Dune and Zidoo) exhibit frame repeats causing micro-stutter but not all under the same circumstances. Micro stutters only seem to show when the frame rate is just over 23.976 and not just under - I may be wrong, but I haven't seen them when the fps are say 23.973 or 23.974 but they are definitely there when it's 23.981 for example.


So the X9S on current firmware has a framerate of 23.978 and stutters in both 12-bit 422 and 444.


The Dune has a framerate of 23.981 at 12-bit 444 and stutters, but set to 12-bit 422 and it's 23.973, and I don't see stutter (same fps as Shield, Oppo and Panasonic players).


The problem with 12-bit 422 on both 1295 and 1296 hardware is they show chroma banding which may mean there's an 8-bit bottleneck in the conversion path or the conversion from 4:2:0 is simply done badly. Either way, it's there and I don't think it's fixable in firmware and makes 422 unusable.


So the Z9S seems to be more stable at 23.974 in 12-bit 422 and 10-bit 444 and I'm hoping stutter free - time will tell.


But it looks promising for both 1295 and 1296 because they are essentially the same as far as CPU and GPU go - the only difference being the IO and memory improvements in the 1296 - but it probably depends on Realtek for a fix and they may not do that for what is essentially 3 year old tech in the 1295.


So I'm going to hold of on an opinion as far as the Z9S goes until I've watched a few films and maybe seen a couple of firmware iterations, but it looks promising.
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post #51 of 1425 Old 11-17-2018, 07:48 AM
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@markswift2003 good info.

I just want to add from my previous research on this topic is that frame rate display from HDFury Vertex or any other device is most likely calculated back from pixel clock rate and screen resolution. It will be different for HD, 3D and 4K but will point back to 23.976fps.

More info here and follow second link.
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post #52 of 1425 Old 11-17-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DVideoBuff View Post
@markswift2003 good info.

I just want to add from my previous research on this topic is that frame rate display from HDFury Vertex or any other device is most likely calculated back from pixel clock rate and screen resolution. It will be different for HD, 3D and 4K but will point back to 23.976fps.

More info here and follow second link.

Interesting stuff - I might email HDFury and see how the vertex works it out..
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post #53 of 1425 Old 11-17-2018, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movd View Post
Wow, so it sounds like the framerate/frame skip issue is most likely hardware, as seemingly all Realtek 1295 devices exhibit the same problem. However, it is fixed in the 1296 SOC. Is that your conclusion?

If the 1296 is using a new SDK and there will be a new SDK for the 1295, there is a chance there could be a fix the issue. Otherwise, there is no hope.

So, first results are in.


I've watched a couple of 4K movies start to finish on the Z9S now. These are full fat remuxes and I watched at 444 10-bit.


Frame rate as previously mentioned does seem to hold at 23.974fps for all modes and I can categorically say that for the two movies so far, no microstutters at all. Not a one.


Now for two movies that might not seem too impressive but it is the very first time EVER I've been able to watch a movie on a Realtek 129* device without either chroma banding and/or stutter.


So far, I'm impressed with this little box.
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post #54 of 1425 Old 11-18-2018, 01:52 PM
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Just ordered a Zidoo Z9S Media Player, I already have a Dune Pro 4K, but need a second device so i figured Id try one of these.

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post #55 of 1425 Old 11-19-2018, 02:40 PM
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@markswift2003 following your finding I decided to test it on my system. I have Zidoo X9S with latest firmware 2.1.14.

My standard settings are:
Deep Color Mode 10bit
Color Space Auto
HDMI Range 16-235

Looking at info screen from Zidoo player I always see 10 Bits and YUV444 for regular HD 1080p 8bit source and 10bit 4K HDR.
Changing Color Space to YCbCr 422 or 420 is not making any difference in the display output info from Zidoo player - always YUV444.

Is changing Color Space in Quick Settings from Auto to YCbCr 444, 422 or 420 effect display output frequency in any way?

Color Space in setup is marked in YCbCr but Player Info screen shows YUV. Are those two the same or not related in Zidoo terminology?

How did you change 444 to 422 and 420? Where do you see the change?

Bit depth is working fine. Setting 10 bit in setup forces 10 bit output across all sources HD and 4K HDR. Changes are reflected to 8 or 12 bit in Zidoo player info screen

It looks like Auto is just referred to maximum capability of the TV rather than automatically following the source.
Since I had it set for 10 bit and Color Space Auto it produces YUV444 and according to your research 23.974fps.

This is my standard set up and I do see microstutters


Can you check what is the frame rate / frequency on standard HD with output set for 10bit and 444?
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post #56 of 1425 Old 11-20-2018, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DVideoBuff View Post
@markswift2003 following your finding I decided to test it on my system. I have Zidoo X9S with latest firmware 2.1.14.

My standard settings are:
Deep Color Mode 10bit
Color Space Auto
HDMI Range 16-235

Looking at info screen from Zidoo player I always see 10 Bits and YUV444 for regular HD 1080p 8bit source and 10bit 4K HDR.
Changing Color Space to YCbCr 422 or 420 is not making any difference in the display output info from Zidoo player - always YUV444.

Is changing Color Space in Quick Settings from Auto to YCbCr 444, 422 or 420 effect display output frequency in any way?

Color Space in setup is marked in YCbCr but Player Info screen shows YUV. Are those two the same or not related in Zidoo terminology?

How did you change 444 to 422 and 420? Where do you see the change?

Bit depth is working fine. Setting 10 bit in setup forces 10 bit output across all sources HD and 4K HDR. Changes are reflected to 8 or 12 bit in Zidoo player info screen

It looks like Auto is just referred to maximum capability of the TV rather than automatically following the source.
Since I had it set for 10 bit and Color Space Auto it produces YUV444 and according to your research 23.974fps.

This is my standard set up and I do see microstutters


Can you check what is the frame rate / frequency on standard HD with output set for 10bit and 444?
The Zidoo seems to respect the HDMI specs correctly so you have to remember you can't output an illegal mode.

So you have explicitly set your bit depth to 10-bits and therefore 4:2:0 is not allowed at 23.976fps and 4:2:2 is only allowed at 12-bits.

Changing colour space has a big impact on transmission frequency and therefore bandwidth which becomes very important as resolution and HDMI cable lengths increase - for example, 4K 12-bit 422 transmits at 297MHz and 4K 12-bit 444 at 445MHz.

I just reread your question though and I suspect you are referring to frame rate, in which case, no, colour space has no bearing on frame rate.

YCbCr and YUV are synonymous.

Not sure what you mean by "where do you see the change"?

My result of 23.974fps is for the Z9S not the X9S.

So for standard HD, the X9S outputs 23.978fps in all modes (8-bit 444, 12-bit 422, 10-bit 444 and 12-bit 444) the same as for 4K.

I haven't tested with a Judder Pattern, but I would expect a frame repeat every 8.3 minutes at that frame rate.

This is on firmware 2.0.34, I wasn't aware of 2.1.14 - I'll load that and see if it makes a difference...

Mark




EDIT - Nope, updated to 2.1.14 and it's exactly the same, 23.978fps across the board.

Last edited by markswift2003; 11-20-2018 at 02:56 AM.
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post #57 of 1425 Old 11-20-2018, 05:34 AM
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Finding it odd how 23.974 (off by .002 from proper 23.976) on Z9S doesn't produce microstutters, but 23.978 (also off by .002) on X9S does.

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post #58 of 1425 Old 11-20-2018, 06:24 AM
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I've wondered if what the Vertex reports is slightly off. It seems no device has come in as exactly at 23.976.

If the Vertex is off by .002, and when it reports 23.974 it actually is 23.976, that can make sense. If the X9S reports 23.978, that would mean a dropped frame every 8.3 minutes. Users have reported seeing a dropped frame every 4-5 minutes. If the actual rate was 23.98 (23.978 + .002), it would have a dropped frame every 4.17 minutes, which coincides with what people are seeing.

Just a thought, I don't have a Vertex.

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post #59 of 1425 Old 11-20-2018, 06:31 AM
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@Brajesh : Yeah, that really is weird.
In case sending too few frames (Z9S), a frame should be skipped. In case sending too much frames (X9S), a frame should be doubled. Maybe we are just not as perceptible to skipped frames as we are to doubled ones.

@movd :
Interesting theory. However, I think it’s not very likely. This would indicate a systematic bias in one specific direction which should be super easy to identify by @HDfury . Given they specialize in this kind of thing, I suspect that it really does report the accurate framerate.

Last edited by Sledgehamma; 11-20-2018 at 12:11 PM.
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post #60 of 1425 Old 11-20-2018, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
Finding it odd how 23.974 (off by .002 from proper 23.976) on Z9S doesn't produce microstutters, but 23.978 (also off by .002) on X9S does.

So do I - when I first got the Vertex and found some of the players run under 23.976 and some over, I was expecting dropped frames from those under but so far I haven't seen it.


The players that reliably play just under 23.976 (ie in 2K and 4K in all colour modes and bit depths) I've found are:


Egreat A5 at 23.974
HiMedia Q10 Pro at 23.974
Nvidia Shield at 23.973
Zidoo Z9S at 23.974


The Zappiti 4K and Dune Pro are the only two 1295 players that have exactly the same mixed frame rate results (which I find suspicious!) but there is no one setting that doesn't either exhibit banding or microstutter or both and the Zappiti has banding in all 4K modes, 10-bit and 12-bit 444 included, which I've not seen in any other player and find odd.


The worst as far as frame rate goes is the Zidoo X9S at 23.978 across the board.
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