New Zidoo Z9S and Z10 (RTD1296 SoC) - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 2311 Old 01-24-2019, 11:44 PM
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Is there an official compatiblity list for HDD that Zidoo has for Z10 players ?
I can't seem to find one, like the zappiti and Dune Players have


Cause i want to know which HDD will work in the Z10 player before buying one


Peter
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post #662 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
I applied the latest beta and retried 2 movies which the Z9S previously had issues playing.

Incredibles2 HD blu-Ray (has > 60 m2ts files in the playlist) playing original BDMV folders, previously used to display a language screen, then skipped the menu, skipped the first chapter of the movie, then froze.
With the latest beta, there’s a marginal change, although it still skips the menu, it sometimes plays the first chapter of the movie. It’s erratic, definitely not fixed.

Venom UHD blu-Ray, playing original BDMV folders, skipped the menu, skipped the (hidden) playlist which plays the Spideverse trailer and the first chapter of the movie, jumps into the movie at chapter 2.
No change with this beta firmware.

I tried this firmware out of interest, to see if there has been any progress in fixing the blu-Ray playback issues with the Z9S.

I have switched to using an Oppo 203 which plays both movies from BDMV folders exactly as they playback from the media.
Follow up :

After clearing the system data on the Z9S and rebooting, in case the Z9S had stored info from previous attempts to play these titles......

Incredibles2 RegionB HD blu-Ray original BDMV folders still does not play correctly from the menu. Seamless branching still appears to be an issue. The user who reported this title as working probably has a different region. He mentioned that he was originally able to play this title from an mt2s file, which suggests his isn’t a seamless branched version.

Venom UHD blu-Ray original now plays correctly from the menu, but the Spiderverse trailer is omitted. This suggests there is still an issue with obfuscation.

Incidentally should have mentioned that both the Dune Pro 4K and the Oppo 203 play Incredibles2 correctly from the menu, so are correctly handling seamless branching.
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post #663 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kerberos View Post
depends on how u define how and ur requirements (like movie wall/home theater). for the z9s, as a complete package and considering the price, I personally am willing to live w some of the flaws (and hope they will be fixed in the not too distant future). but I wouldnt go for the more expensive models w the same soc.
HT2 is very good and the Z9S price point is excellent. However coming from a Dune you notice its flaws with Bluray menu playback. I am realistic and don't expect perfection. However it has some way to go to be acceptable. I don't have a large library but the Dune will play ALL (UHD excluded of course) perfectly with the Z9S its still a lottery which will play and which will give issues - some minor some major.

The last update even made one bluray worse - where after a few tries I could get to the menu it now constantly shows the logo then says on a black screen

I know Zidoo are aware and listening - just hoping its possible to improve.

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post #664 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Follow up :

After clearing the system data on the Z9S and rebooting, in case the Z9S had stored info from previous attempts to play these titles......

Incredibles2 RegionB HD blu-Ray original BDMV folders still does not play correctly from the menu. Seamless branching still appears to be an issue. The user who reported this title as working probably has a different region. He mentioned that he was originally able to play this title from an mt2s file, which suggests his isn’t a seamless branched version.

Venom UHD blu-Ray original now plays correctly from the menu, but the Spiderverse trailer is omitted. This suggests there is still an issue with obfuscation.

Incidentally should have mentioned that both the Dune Pro 4K and the Oppo 203 play Incredibles2 correctly from the menu, so are correctly handling seamless branching.
Interesting. I think it was me with the version with one m2ts file. However I have a rip of Aliens that has 26 m2ts files to cater for theatrical and DC version. Before the update the 'joins' were very noticeable. Using Bdinfo I located timestamps of the branches and tested. It went between them without issue.

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post #665 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Very odd indeed.


When you look at your source(s) how many out of how many does it say are scanned and how does that tally up with the actual number of movies, the demo included?


Also you could try moving the folder for the demo away from where your source is, make a backup of the HT2 data then change source to the ISO's new location to see if it will pick up just the one file and if so, what it does with it. Might provide some insight into how to deal with it.


**edit**


The guys at Zidoo saw this post and have just emailed this suggestion:


"Please just delete word "demo" and try again.
As HT2 will filter files that including words like demo,sample etc."
Yes the scan total tallied.

To fix this I renamed the file to '99999999.iso' so it went into the Others bucket. I then did a manual search for 'DTS Demo Vol 22' - and it found it that way.

Thanks for the heads up about not using key words. However doesn't seem consistent as it found 'Dolby Atmos Blu-Ray Demo Disc (Sep 2016)' OK!

Zidoo emailed you with suggestion?

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post #666 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
Yes the scan total tallied.

To fix this I renamed the file to '99999999.iso' so it went into the Others bucket. I then did a manual search for 'DTS Demo Vol 22' - and it found it that way.

Thanks for the heads up about not using key words. However doesn't seem consistent as it found 'Dolby Atmos Blu-Ray Demo Disc (Sep 2016)' OK!

Zidoo emailed you with suggestion?

Yes, I had an email conversation going this morning and they read your post but I think they thought I had the issue.


So is it working ok now?

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post #667 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blenky View Post
Interesting. I think it was me with the version with one m2ts file. However I have a rip of Aliens that has 26 m2ts files to cater for theatrical and DC version. Before the update the 'joins' were very noticeable. Using Bdinfo I located timestamps of the branches and tested. It went between them without issue.

I don't have that movie to try, but there is more to seamless branching than the audio issue at the m2ts file boundaries. I have other titles which I can use to verify if the audio issue is fixed. e.g Thor Ragnarok HD Blu-ray. Will let you know if the audio issue is resolved.

There is also the issue of playlist obfuscation, where a playlist is hidden (e.g. Venom, the spiderverse trailer). The Z9S doesn't handle that correctly.

Incredibles 2 Region B HD Blu-ray plays the same way from the media, the Dune Pro 4K and the Oppo 203, so it's possible to see how it should play.

Comparing the playback from the Z9S, there are glitches playing this movie. The language selection screen prior to the menu should display over a static background display. It displays over a black screen. The language selection text remains on the display after it should have cleared. There is a very short first chapter which is randomly omitted.

One tip, try clearing the system data (unless you have issues doing this), it cured the main issue with Venom UHD Blu-ray, that was the first time I'd seen it play on the Z9S without skipping the spaceship crash chapter.
But it still skips the Spiderverse trailer.

Thankfully I no longer have to wait for the firmware 'lottery' result.

Last edited by Whirlpool0548; 01-25-2019 at 05:42 AM.
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post #668 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Yes, I had an email conversation going this morning and they read your post but I think they thought I had the issue.


So is it working ok now?
I fixed it as described in my last post. I haven't renamed it again - don't want to tempt fate! Also encouraging to know that the Zidoo team read posts on here
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post #669 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
For those interested in this sort of thing, here's the latest frame rate info:
Just curious what content or test pattern you're using for the "banding" column of your comparison table? Would like to try reproducing your results on some hardware I have here.
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post #670 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Just curious what content or test pattern you're using for the "banding" column of your comparison table? Would like to try reproducing your results on some hardware I have here.

I mainly use ramp patterns from the R.Masciola set:


https://diversifiedvideosolutions.co...uhdhdr-10.html


Also the (free) Mehanik patterns:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...terns-set.html


And then sanity check with real world footage - my go to movies are The Martian (sky), Bladerunner 2049 (sky) and Alien Covenant (statue of David).


If you drill too far into the discreet colour levels, every box you find will exhibit banding to a certain degree - what I'm interested in is overt banding - i.e. will it affect viewing? (in my case on a 9ft screen) - not can you see a glitch on a green test pattern between C496 and C506...


But if you want to drill that far in, look at the colour steps in the Mehanik set (04. Colors\04. Steps) - they are excellent.
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post #671 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
How do the opening scenes look - in the sky where we first see the martian landscape with the long pan and the sky again, where we first see the astronauts digging before the storm hits?


When the Zidoo is outputting 4K 8-bit or 12-bit 422 chroma banding is very apparent in those scenes, and it's dynamic - it kind of arcs outwards as the scene moves which is very telling of banding as opposed to encoding artifacts which tend to change more subtley with the GOPs as new I-frames come along.

I am aware some member reported banding issue during the opening scene some time back (older fw) but I didnt notice any w 2.1.30. I did notice some stutter during the panning scene of mars surface however. for the astronauts digging scene, I feel the orange /red color on the space suit was not as "nice" as on the sony. but like I mentioned b4, I havent spent much time fine tuning the picture parameters
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post #672 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 08:41 AM
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Well, just bought the Z9, it should arrive monday or tuesday.

I'll be using it in my bedroom, with a Xgimi z6 projector, it's a "Low Cost" projector.

Now, two quick questions..

1 - Can I connect the xbox one S to the hdmi in of the Z9, so I can use the image settings of the z9, or the input lag will be massive, and it's not even worth a try (the image settings of the projector are extremely basic) ?

2 - In my main set, I have a Zappiti 4k hdr one.

Will I manage to have the posters from the movies/tv show's (on the Z9), even though my library is in the zappiti and I just want to stream to the Z9? I have around 13TB of stuff.

It's my first Zidoo set

Thanks!

Last edited by silver-eye; 01-25-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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post #673 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
With Venom UHD blu-Ray do you see the spiderverse trailer ? There is a hidden playlist on this movie and the Z9S skips it. That hidden playlist also includes the first chapter of the movie (the spaceship crash) so it too gets skipped on the Z9S.
Just a sidenote that I tested this with the eGreat A5 and it played the hidden Spiderverse trailer and follow up at the end of the movie as well. Menu worked fine and no issues with the eGreat A5.
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post #674 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
I applied the latest beta and retried 2 movies which the Z9S previously had issues playing.

Incredibles2 HD blu-Ray (has > 60 m2ts files in the playlist) playing original BDMV folders, previously used to display a language screen, then skipped the menu, skipped the first chapter of the movie, then froze.
With the latest beta, there’s a marginal change, although it still skips the menu, it sometimes plays the first chapter of the movie. It’s erratic, definitely not fixed.

Venom UHD blu-Ray, playing original BDMV folders, skipped the menu, skipped the (hidden) playlist which plays the Spideverse trailer and the first chapter of the movie, jumps into the movie at chapter 2.
No change with this beta firmware.

I tried this firmware out of interest, to see if there has been any progress in fixing the blu-Ray playback issues with the Z9S.

I have switched to using an Oppo 203 which plays both movies from BDMV folders exactly as they playback from the media.
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Originally Posted by lithiumus View Post
Just a sidenote that I tested this with the eGreat A5 and it played the hidden Spiderverse trailer and follow up at the end of the movie as well. Menu worked fine and no issues with the eGreat A5.
Good to know, the Z9S is lagging behind when it comes to handling blu-Ray menus.
Even the Dune Pro 4K plays it.

Never mind banding, video stutter, movie walls, this is basic stuff.
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post #675 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Good to know, the Z9S is lagging behind when it comes to handling blu-Ray menus.
Even the Dune Pro 4K plays it.

Never mind banding, video stutter, movie walls, this is basic stuff.
Yeah, I just tested the Z9S on Venom 4K UHD using menu... it took a while to get going but when it did, it played the Spiderverse trailer but when the trailer was over I got kicked out and back to the boot up homepage.

What player are we supposed to use? the nuplayer or native?
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post #676 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 11:29 AM
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Yeah, I just tested the Z9S on Venom 4K UHD using menu... it took a while to get going but when it did, it played the Spiderverse trailer but when the trailer was over I got kicked out and back to the boot up homepage.

What player are we supposed to use? the nuplayer or native?
I was using nuplayer. It would be useful to know if native plays it correctly.
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post #677 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Good to know, the Z9S is lagging behind when it comes to handling blu-Ray menus.
Even the Dune Pro 4K plays it.

Never mind banding, video stutter, movie walls, this is basic stuff.

The thing no-one is taking into account is that Zidoo, in common with every other media box you can shake a stick at is not, and never will be, a member of the BDA so they have to constantly play catch up with the specs.


They have to reverse engineer everything - they can't go down the legit route because that would impinge on the BDA's IP even if they obtained copies. Not a road anyone wants to go down.


And the BDA ain't going to let up - they will continue to change the spec and obfuscate wherever possible to make life difficult and the studios will obviously follow.


Even the likes of Oppo, who currently are a member of the BDA I'm sure will eventually stop paying the fees and their players will slowly deprecate as the format evolves.


I've said it before (and please don't misinterpret this) but I genuinely don't understand the attraction of menus and all the palaver that stops you watching a movie, and these players are just great at playing movies. I use these players so I can rip the movies off the disc and do away with all the annoying c**p you have to deal with when you use the physical media. I've been doing that since the days of DVD and it's got a whole lot worse since then!


YMMV.

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post #678 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bmartian View Post
Is there an official compatiblity list for HDD that Zidoo has for Z10 players ?
I can't seem to find one, like the zappiti and Dune Players have


Cause i want to know which HDD will work in the Z10 player before buying one


Peter
Sata connected or USB?

Theoretically for sata you should be able to buy a new Seagate expansion desktop 8tb and shuck it. I got one of those cheap at Amazon, but I just have it hooked up usb3, just to make it easier working on files on PC. They are gpt out of the box for the current releases.
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post #679 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Good to know, the Z9S is lagging behind when it comes to handling blu-Ray menus.
Even the Dune Pro 4K plays it.

Never mind banding, video stutter, movie walls, this is basic stuff.

I was a little disappointed that it crashed when playing Top Gun BDMV (HD). Even my 10 yr old WDTV had no problem. That said, when I decide on toys to buy, I also consider after sales support n if there is a strong group of users on the internet so I can easily find advice n issues are addressed.


to me, video artifacts and picture quality bother me more. some friends like to find easter eggs, I dont.
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post #680 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
The thing no-one is taking into account is that Zidoo, in common with every other media box you can shake a stick at is not, and never will be, a member of the BDA so they have to constantly play catch up with the specs.


They have to reverse engineer everything - they can't go down the legit route because that would impinge on the BDA's IP even if they obtained copies. Not a road anyone wants to go down.


And the BDA ain't going to let up - they will continue to change the spec and obfuscate wherever possible to make life difficult and the studios will obviously follow.


Even the likes of Oppo, who currently are a member of the BDA I'm sure will eventually stop paying the fees and their players will slowly deprecate as the format evolves.


I've said it before (and please don't misinterpret this) but I genuinely don't understand the attraction of menus and all the palaver that stops you watching a movie, and these players are just great at playing movies. I use these players so I can rip the movies off the disc and do away with all the annoying c**p you have to deal with when you use the physical media. I've been doing that since the days of DVD and it's got a whole lot worse since then!


YMMV.
Well, please don’t misinterpret this but here’s part of the Dune 4k Pro’s spec....

Blu-ray menu: Enjoy full Blu-ray menu navigation (same Blu-ray playback engine as on Linux/SMP8758 based Dune HD models) or use simple BD Lite menu at your discretion.

.....and Zidoo’s Z9S spec.....

UHD BD/BD/DVD ISO FULL MENU UHD Blu-Ray/Blu-Ray/DVD ISO menus. BDJ 1.0/1.2/2.0. Supports BD region switch.
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post #681 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 03:27 PM
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How well does the Ziddo handle 3D ISO or MKV? Any issues on menu support , shutter etc?
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post #682 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 03:57 PM
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Sata connected or USB?

Theoretically for sata you should be able to buy a new Seagate expansion desktop 8tb and shuck it. I got one of those cheap at Amazon, but I just have it hooked up usb3, just to make it easier working on files on PC. They are gpt out of the box for the current releases.



I ment for the internal Sata connected HDD, i just wanna know wich brands/types are compatible and until what sizes
Like the Seagate Skyhawks or the WD RED drives or will any drive go until 10TB ?


I am asking because Dune and Zappiti got something like a Hardware compatible list, NOT all drives are gonna work with the player.


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post #683 of 2311 Old 01-25-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
Interesting. I think it was me with the version with one m2ts file. However I have a rip of Aliens that has 26 m2ts files to cater for theatrical and DC version. Before the update the 'joins' were very noticeable. Using Bdinfo I located timestamps of the branches and tested. It went between them without issue.
Ok, had a chance to retry a couple of Region B HD blu-Ray titles which play correctly on the Dune Pro 4K.

Thor Ragnarok HD blu-Ray, prior to the latest firmware during the sequence where the dragon chases Thor, there was an audio dropout just at the point where the dragon catches up to Thor. (There were other audio dropouts at transition points in this movie, I only checked this one). The latest beta actually makes the issue worse as there’s now also a video freeze at that point. Just after that point the video is lost (black screen). Then the movie continues. I’d say playback is worse for this title with the latest beta.

Spider-Man Homecoming HD blu-Ray Region B just skips into a point after the start of the movie. The new beta hasn’t improved playback.
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post #684 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Well, please don’t misinterpret this but here’s part of the Dune 4k Pro’s spec....

Blu-ray menu: Enjoy full Blu-ray menu navigation (same Blu-ray playback engine as on Linux/SMP8758 based Dune HD models) or use simple BD Lite menu at your discretion.

.....and Zidoo’s Z9S spec.....

UHD BD/BD/DVD ISO FULL MENU UHD Blu-Ray/Blu-Ray/DVD ISO menus. BDJ 1.0/1.2/2.0. Supports BD region switch.

Indeed, I absolutely agree they shouldn't make promises they can't meet, but we should all be used to it by now and take it with a pinch of pragmatism and not be surprised when certain discs have certain issues with certain bits of their structure, particularly new ones.


Regardless of marketing, menus are simply always going to be a moving target.

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post #685 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bmartian View Post
Is there an official compatiblity list for HDD that Zidoo has for Z10 players ?
I can't seem to find one, like the zappiti and Dune Players have


Cause i want to know which HDD will work in the Z10 player before buying one


Peter

I was searching for that to, but no result. Got a 5400 rpm WD Blue 6 TB ( the Z10 can handle up to 12 ) and it is a very quiet, and quick enough type model.
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post #686 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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Any reason, not to buy an Nvidia Shield, and instead, buy the z9? In PQ, I mean.

Asking for a friend that is undecided about which purchase he should do.

Thanks!
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post #687 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post
How well does the Ziddo handle 3D ISO or MKV? Any issues on menu support , shutter etc?
Can't speak for Z-series, but on X-series, it's perfect! I'd expect same on Z. Both MVC MKV's and 3D ISO's play great w/the native (external) player. If you're using ZDMC (Kodi fork), just make sure you set all playback to external player. 3D quality, depth are excellent, and you can easily flip eyes for right-eye first titles. My thread at Kodi forum here.
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post #688 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
I'm really interested to hear what your vertex makes of it - I've had some really freaky results for MDL and CLL.

With HDR set to auto I eventually got the correct values but using SDR mapped to HDR the results are baffling...

And the results from Bladerunner 2049 are utterly mad! MediaInfo says MDL is 4000/0.005 & CLL is 457/179 and the Zidoo says MDL is 10000/0.005 and CLL 500/200.

I have no idea where those figures come from...

Mark, hi i finally I had a chance to take a look. This was with HDR pass through on the Z9S with latest firmware.

I checked Lucy and Bladerunner, both are matching the media info from what I can see so far. I'll take a look at some more titles tonight


Lucy






BladeRunner




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post #689 of 2311 Old 01-26-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
Can't speak for Z-series, but on X-series, it's perfect! I'd expect same on Z. Both MVC MKV's and 3D ISO's play great w/the native (external) player. If you're using ZDMC (Kodi fork), just make sure you set all playback to external player. 3D quality, depth are excellent, and you can easily flip eyes for right-eye first titles. My thread at Kodi forum here.
Thank you, nice review on your link. Although not as important as PQ and solid playback, how is the 3D menu support?
I'm looking at the X20 Pro and the eGreat A11, your 3D A+ rating is a big plus for Zidoo. I currently have a Dune 4K HD Duo, but they really seem to be struggling on the new platform.
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post #690 of 2311 Old 01-27-2019, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
Can't speak for Z-series, but on X-series, it's perfect! I'd expect same on Z. Both MVC MKV's and 3D ISO's play great w/the native (external) player. If you're using ZDMC (Kodi fork), just make sure you set all playback to external player. 3D quality, depth are excellent, and you can easily flip eyes for right-eye first titles. My thread at Kodi forum here.
apology for the dumb question. since im new to the zidoo community, ZDMC=home theater or media center? how do u set the player anyway? I couldnt find any player specific settings within either apps. I only found quick settings->playback->stream player: nuplayer or native. which one is better for picture quality? I found home theater is a lot better than media center. thx in advance.
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