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post #1291 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by vadergr View Post
The ultimate goal should be (as far as i am concerned) to have only one device for all the basic streaming services (Netflix/Amazon and the new Disney channel) and the high end video playback capabilities (Zidoo, Dune, Egreat, Himedia, Zappiti ?)

The closest I've seen is the Nvidia Shield - a very powerful box, and great if you don't mind wrestling with Kodi and all its idiosyncrasies for local media - will do all of that and more. Ok, it's not great at upscaling, but that's easy - don't upscale - let something more expensive downstream do that. I used one for a while and was seriously impressed - I just got fed up with Kodi (SPMC in fact since you really need a dedicated Android Kodi port for the best performance).


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I don't believe cost is a serious issue. The Xiaomi Mi box has a 60$ street price. Netflix is very picky about doing partnersips with lesser known brands.
Ιt would not be a surprise if these companies had made a request to Netflix and got rejected.

Quite possibly, but I think more likely these companies just didn't bother trying, given the target product.

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post #1292 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 07:06 AM
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Can you look at a core level on what this utter misnomer "seemless branching" is? It ISN't BRANCHING. It isn't like there is one file and when you play it, it has a set or parameters that say OK, for V1, you play until timecode XXX and then jump to timecode YYY, and if V2, you play to timecode XXX, then jump to timecode EEE until you get to timecode FFFF, and then go to XXXX. For a blu ray, there is a series of video files. And there are a number of playlists, and playlist 1 says play files 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and for an alternate cut, there is a SEPARATE playlist 2 saying play files 1, 2, 3, 11, 5, 6, 12, 8, 9. It is so simple, and the ONLY time there can EVER be an issue playing this is if there is insifficient memory to cache ahead to that it hasn't partially loaded the next file before if needs to jump to it, and at a hardware level you geta pause when it changes the disk heads to the new location. And "seemless" branching issues on anything is more due to the afore mentioned idiocy of the mentally deranged BJ menu mastering where they encode mentally challenged rules for how to handle playback. Eg When on the Matrix 4K they have to write CODE to implement disc resume and then make sure that they have it so that the resume doesn't remember what soundtrack or subtitles you were listening to. If I was zidoo, I wouldn't spend a second trying to replicate the utter, utter, idiocy of official BJ studio menu mastering XXXXwits.

If you want the friggin menu, do what I do and use the blu ray I already own, and put up with frigging slow load times, stupid fbi warnings, bloated meus, slow startup, STUPID STUPID audio track defaulting like all of warners titles. If you want to use a ziddoo or whatever, remux/remaster to files for each movie. But just quit expecting them to try replicate the stupid piracy encouraging XXXXXXX official players have to. Non skippable rubbish, etc. Quit the whining. Thanks to zidoo, I now can actually enjoy remuxed atmos 3D blu rays I own physcial copies of and UHd copies I also own (so I've purchased at least two copies of these movies), but not worry about cinavia. Or would you prefer zidoo fully comply with the "standard" garbage and block cinavia????

What on earth can the logical desire of a company like zidoo or dune be to try emulate idiocy?
I hope Zidoo are able to fix the “seemless branching” issue too.
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post #1293 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:01 AM
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...

I hope Zidoo can fix the issues.

Again, simple and honest question - why?


Why are you so hung up on Zidoo not meeting your requirements when you obviously have a solution that does?


And no, of course Dune isn't a member of the BDA (none of these media box manufacturers are or ever will be) and are therefore unable to use or impinge on any of their IPR which leads to the requirement to reverse engineer the BluRay structure which leads to a game of catchup as the BDA and therefore BDA members move the goalposts to protect themselves.
Just FYI, past players of Dune and PCH had an official BD license. But even then they didn’t worked flawlessly like they did on standalone BD players.

Furthermore, I don’t think that Oppo is part of the BDA. Mediatek is and Oppo has an official BD license. Usually they are using the BD stack implemented by the SoC manufacturer.
At least this is how it worked back in the good old Sigma Designs days.

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post #1294 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Can you look at a core level on what this utter misnomer "seemless branching" is? It ISN't BRANCHING. It isn't like there is one file and when you play it, it has a set or parameters that say OK, for V1, you play until timecode XXX and then jump to timecode YYY, and if V2, you play to timecode XXX, then jump to timecode EEE until you get to timecode FFFF, and then go to XXXX. For a blu ray, there is a series of video files. And there are a number of playlists, and playlist 1 says play files 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and for an alternate cut, there is a SEPARATE playlist 2 saying play files 1, 2, 3, 11, 5, 6, 12, 8, 9. It is so simple, and the ONLY time there can EVER be an issue playing this is if there is insifficient memory to cache ahead to that it hasn't partially loaded the next file before if needs to jump to it, and at a hardware level you geta pause when it changes the disk heads to the new location. And "seemless" branching issues on anything is more due to the afore mentioned idiocy of the mentally deranged BJ menu mastering where they encode mentally challenged rules for how to handle playback. Eg When on the Matrix 4K they have to write CODE to implement disc resume and then make sure that they have it so that the resume doesn't remember what soundtrack or subtitles you were listening to. If I was zidoo, I wouldn't spend a second trying to replicate the utter, utter, idiocy of official BJ studio menu mastering XXXXwits.

If you want the friggin menu, do what I do and use the blu ray I already own, and put up with frigging slow load times, stupid fbi warnings, bloated meus, slow startup, STUPID STUPID audio track defaulting like all of warners titles. If you want to use a ziddoo or whatever, remux/remaster to files for each movie. But just quit expecting them to try replicate the stupid piracy encouraging XXXXXXX official players have to. Non skippable rubbish, etc. Quit the whining. Thanks to zidoo, I now can actually enjoy remuxed atmos 3D blu rays I own physcial copies of and UHd copies I also own (so I've purchased at least two copies of these movies), but not worry about cinavia. Or would you prefer zidoo fully comply with the "standard" garbage and block cinavia????

What on earth can the logical desire of a company like zidoo or dune be to try emulate idiocy?
I think we all understand what 'seamless branching' is in context to the issues we see with the Zidoo. However the Dune has managed it (and forced subs) so hopefully the Zidoo Z9S will as well.

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post #1295 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:29 AM
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The closest I've seen is the Nvidia Shield - a very powerful box, and great if you don't mind wrestling with Kodi and all its idiosyncrasies for local media - will do all of that and more. Ok, it's not great at upscaling, but that's easy - don't upscale - let something more expensive downstream do that. I used one for a while and was seriously impressed - I just got fed up with Kodi (SPMC in fact since you really need a dedicated Android Kodi port for the best performance).
Exactly my experience. A very powerful box and the ideal choice if you are really serious about the google Android TV experience. However I have a love hate relationship with Kodi\SPMC\ZBMC\MrMC. They are overdeveloped in some ways and I could never get them just right - and of course no menu support. So in the end I sold my Shield. HT2 is almost there but just needs a bit more love from Zidoo

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post #1296 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:35 AM
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Just FYI, past players of Dune and PCH had an official BD license. But even then they didn’t worked flawlessly like they did on standalone BD players.

Furthermore, I don’t think that Oppo is part of the BDA. Mediatek is and Oppo has an official BD license. Usually they are using the BD stack implemented by the SoC manufacturer.
At least this is how it worked back in the good old Sigma Designs days.
Thanks for clarifying.
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post #1297 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:48 AM
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Just FYI, past players of Dune and PCH had an official BD license. But even then they didn’t worked flawlessly like they did on standalone BD players.

Furthermore, I don’t think that Oppo is part of the BDA. Mediatek is and Oppo has an official BD license. Usually they are using the BD stack implemented by the SoC manufacturer.
At least this is how it worked back in the good old Sigma Designs days.

Apologies, I could have sworn last time I looked at the Licensee lists Oppo were on there, but you're right, Mediatek hold the FLLA licenses.
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post #1298 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 08:54 AM
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Exactly my experience. A very powerful box and the ideal choice if you are really serious about the google Android TV experience. However I have a love hate relationship with Kodi\SPMC\ZBMC\MrMC. They are overdeveloped in some ways and I could never get them just right - and of course no menu support. So in the end I sold my Shield. HT2 is almost there but just needs a bit more love from Zidoo

Yep, that pretty much describes my experience - I actually had SPMC running and looking as I wanted but you always felt you were beholden to the whims of some kid in his mom's basement as to whether a scraper or a plugin would work or whether whole house of cards would just fall over.


HT2 is very impressive, but yes, a little more thought and attention and it could be awesome.

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post #1299 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 09:16 AM
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... So in the end I sold my Shield....

Wish I could be that organised!


I have a stack of every media player I've ever owned back from an early Sony Media PC into Netgear EVA8000 onto Pixel Magic boxes and, well, you get the picture.


The only one I don't have is an old Popcornhour I got so frustrated with I simply put it in the bin.


I've said before, I should create some sort of hanging wall art with them all for the cinema... very least I should give them to some friends in production to use as greeblies .
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Apologies, I could have sworn last time I looked at the Licensee lists Oppo were on there, but you're right, Mediatek hold the FLLA licenses.
So, both Oppo and Dune have managed to achieve seamless (not to be confused with seemless) branching and handling of forced subs without being BDA licensees.

Just saying...
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post #1301 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 10:08 AM
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So, both Oppo and Dune have managed to achieve seamless (not to be confused with seemless) branching and handling of forced subs without being BDA licensees.

Just saying...

Oh good grief! Don't you know who Mediatek are?

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post #1302 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 10:18 AM
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Oh good grief! Don't you know who Mediatek are?
Yes, but neither Dune nor Oppo hold a license and it’s their own blu-Ray engines that have implemented the functionality that has perfected seamless branching and forced subs on their blu-ray menu playback.

You intimated that Oppo only achieved this because they were BDA licensees
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post #1303 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 10:27 AM
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Yes, but neither Dune nor Oppo hold a license and it’s their own blu-Ray engines that have implemented the functionality that has perfected seamless branching and forced subs on their blu-ray menu playback.

You intimated that Oppo only achieved this because they were BDA licensees

Wow!



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Wow!


Is that unused stack of media players getting to you, looks like it.
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post #1305 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 10:42 AM
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Is that unused stack of media players getting to you, looks like it.
That was quite funny to be fair

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Seriously though - of course the Oppo is licensed - you only have to look at the front panel to realise that!


They didn't have to reverse engineer the tech like Dune and Zidoo have to, they simply use it!

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Seriously though - of course the Oppo is licensed - you only have to look at the front panel to realise that!

They didn't have to reverse engineer the tech like Dune and Zidoo have to, they simply use it!
Thanks for clarifying, Dune don’t have a BDA license.

But, given that Dune have been able to achieve it, I hope Zidoo are able to improve the reverse engineering in their blu-Ray engine for the Z9s to overcome the implementation issues with seamless branching and forced subs.
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post #1308 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 11:24 AM
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Thanks for clarifying, Dune don’t have a BDA license.

But, given that Dune have been able to achieve it, I hope Zidoo are able to improve the reverse engineering in their blu-Ray engine for the Z9s to overcome the implementation issues with seamless branching and forced subs.

I'm confident they will, and although I have no vested interest in them doing so, I'm rather surprised they haven't at least matched Dune's achievement with it.

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I'm confident they will, and although I have no vested interest in them doing so, I'm rather surprised they haven't at least matched Dune's achievement with it.
That last statement speaks volumes.
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That last statement speaks volumes.

Don't read too much into it - I've always maintained that the Dune devs performed a very impressive feat in porting their shell from Linux into Android (and yes, I know, arguably, from certain viewpoints, Android could be viewed as a Linux distro, but all things being equal, it's not really) and they are very accomplished, but in my opinion, right here, right now, the Zidoo is the better player.


Forgetting the niceties of menus, wrappers and playlists etc - as a 4K HEVC player with HDR capabilities, it's a better, more agile player.


I'm not trying to convince you in the slightest by the way. I know I won't because you have different ideas on what constitutes a good player to me, and that's fine.


Right - I'm buggering off to find wine......

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The ultimate goal should be (as far as i am concerned) to have only one device for all the basic streaming services (Netflix/Amazon and the new Disney channel) and the high end video playback capabilities (Zidoo, Dune, Egreat, Himedia, Zappiti ?)

I don't believe cost is a serious issue. The Xiaomi Mi box has a 60$ street price. Netflix is very picky about doing partnersips with lesser known brands.
Ιt would not be a surprise if these companies had made a request to Netflix and got rejected.
It would be nice to just have one device, particularly in the HDR era, just from the perspective of being able to have one video settings at the display end. Eg I have the Panasonic ub9000 which has fantastic tone mapping that I just don't have on the Apple TV or Zidoo. So for the Zidoo and apple I need to use another setting on the projector with a custom tone map.

I didn't have to worry about that in the 1080p era.
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post #1312 of 1488 Old 05-24-2019, 06:22 PM
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It would be nice to just have one device, particularly in the HDR era, just from the perspective of being able to have one video settings at the display end. Eg I have the Panasonic ub9000 which has fantastic tone mapping that I just don't have on the Apple TV or Zidoo. So for the Zidoo and apple I need to use another setting on the projector with a custom tone map.

I didn't have to worry about that in the 1080p era.
Obviously everyone has their preference and there's no right answer. But IMO, the streaming solutions have pretty much been subsumed into the TVs themselves; so, the media players are essentially for local media. But YMMV.
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post #1313 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 12:35 AM
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Obviously everyone has their preference and there's no right answer. But IMO, the streaming solutions have pretty much been subsumed into the TVs themselves; so, the media players are essentially for local media. But YMMV.

Streaming boxes are still needed for projectors, but I agree with your final comment.


However, I think I'm an unusual case in that I prefer to keep things separate, particularly for local streaming.


If I hit the movie button, I just want the lights to go down and a movie wall to appear, I don't want to have to trawl through, for example, an Android TV menu to get there, so I'd prefer one box that excels at local media, one for streaming, one for TV and of course a disc player (to keep dust on).
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post #1314 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mike_carton View Post
Obviously everyone has their preference and there's no right answer. But IMO, the streaming solutions have pretty much been subsumed into the TVs themselves; so, the media players are essentially for local media. But YMMV.
I agree to a point. Apps in TV's have gotten better as the TV's themselves have much better internal software. However TV manufacturers quickly move on from the latest TV model to concentrate on the next and apps stop getting updated. That's fine if you plan to replace your TV every two years. With a decent android box you can update apps via the store or you can just jump to another box for £100 or so.

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post #1315 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 04:38 AM
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I emailed Zidoo about my experience with seamless branching using the latest beta and got this reply

"Thanks for your feedback , V2.2.65 is a beta version, and we don't suggest you install it now.
We will feed back the seamless branching issue to engineers."

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post #1316 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 04:51 AM
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I emailed Zidoo about my experience with seamless branching using the latest beta and got this reply

"Thanks for your feedback , V2.2.65 is a beta version, and we don't suggest you install it now.
We will feed back the seamless branching issue to engineers."

That's an odd reply - they're all betas!
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post #1317 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 05:38 AM
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That's an odd reply - they're all betas!
I think v2.2.61 is considered a stable release by them, at least it doesn't mention beta in the thread titles on their forums like the other ones do. That being said, I don't think it's really any more stable than any of their other releases lately.
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post #1318 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 06:55 AM
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I think v2.2.61 is considered a stable release by them, at least it doesn't mention beta in the thread titles on their forums like the other ones do. That being said, I don't think it's really any more stable than any of their other releases lately.

Hadn't noticed that, but yes, these things never really come out of beta...

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post #1319 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 07:40 AM
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That's an odd reply - they're all betas!
It would be nice to think that they will review this beta based on my issues with seamless branching!
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post #1320 of 1488 Old 05-25-2019, 10:33 AM
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I think v2.2.61 is considered a stable release by them, at least it doesn't mention beta in the thread titles on their forums like the other ones do. That being said, I don't think it's really any more stable than any of their other releases lately.
Their recent releases do seem to be more unstable.
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