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post #1321 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
It would be nice to think that they will review this beta based on my issues with seamless branching!

My experience is they take all our comments into account.


I emailed about the RS232 shortcomings back in March, and those fixes are in v2.2.65 which is not yet released on the main forum, but they emailed maybe a week ago to let me know they'd be in the next beta.


Point being, these were extremely easy fixes, but I'm sure seamless branching and ISO subs are not - we know they had an internal beta with seamless branching supposedly working quite a while ago, so we know it's coming but what we don't know is their work cycle.


Similarly I emailed regarding the posterisation issues of the HDR to SDR conversion ages ago, which was acknowledged, but as yet, a fix has not immerged.


Currently high on my wishlist is for HT2 category improvements, although I must admit I haven't emailed about that yet...

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post #1322 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Their recent releases do seem to be more unstable.

Not at all.


They have addressed the black screen issue which was plaguing a lot of users, they've added many usability fixes (to HT2, and EDID settings), they've addressed some audio glitches I reported a while ago and improved on the RS232 functionality.


There have been a lot of small but consequential fixes and none of it has adversely affected stability.


I know they've yet to meet your expectations with regards to BluRay menu, seamless MPLS playback and forced subs for ISO/BDMV but that's functionality, not stability.

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post #1323 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Not at all.


They have addressed the black screen issue which was plaguing a lot of users, they've added many usability fixes (to HT2, and EDID settings), they've addressed some audio glitches I reported a while ago and improved on the RS232 functionality.


There have been a lot of small but consequential fixes and none of it has adversely affected stability.


I know they've yet to meet your expectations with regards to BluRay menu, seamless MPLS playback and forced subs for ISO/BDMV but that's functionality, not stability.

Check with Blenky's posts, seamless branching actually went backwards with the latest beta. Does that qualify as stability, or is it just a deterioration in the players agile features ?
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post #1324 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Check with Blenky's posts, seamless branching actually went backwards with the latest beta. Does that qualify as stability, or is it just a deterioration in the players agile features ?

Come on, don't try to be clever.. you've been doing very well the last few posts


Point take, but I'd say it's still a functionality issue unless you want to start arguing about how stable the lack of functionality is...


Seamless MPLS playback, or in fact just MPLS playback (let's stop calling it seamless branching - that's a completely different thing) is non functional at present.


(Not that I've ever tried it )

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post #1325 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Come on, don't try to be clever.. you've been doing very well the last few posts


Point take, but I'd say it's still a functionality issue unless you want to start arguing about how stable the lack of functionality is...


Seamless MPLS playback, or in fact just MPLS playback (let's stop calling it seamless branching - that's a completely different thing) is non functional at present.


(Not that I've ever tried it )

The Pro 4k handles both,
They are both driven from a playlist.


……….and here's Dunes firmware changelog that mentions seamless branching being fixed (and without a BDA license).
Should we just continue to call it that ?

Version "180902_0153_r13" (BETA version)
Download: dune_firmware_tv292a_180902_0153_r13.dff (ZIP)
Changes since 180606_1345_r13:
- New feature: Pro 4K: The first beta version of full BD Menu support. - In general, BD Menu support is based on exactly the same engine which was previously used in Sigma-based Solo 4K and Duo 4K media player models, and has the same features. - BD-J is fully supported and compatibility with various discs is currently already quite (up to about 95% according to tests performed so far). - BD Menu mode is supported for both BD ISO files and BDMV folders (and also for non-encrypted optical Blu-ray discs via an external optical BD drive). - Advanced support for seamless branching is implemented, which ensures stutter-free playback of any BD discs (even those internally consisting of a huge number of small video fragments).

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post #1326 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Check with Blenky's posts, seamless branching actually went backwards with the latest beta. Does that qualify as stability, or is it just a deterioration in the players agile features ?
That was an experience with one disk - which when I tested with previous firmware had glitches but did not freeze.

Just tested The Great Gatsby UHD. This has multiple M2TS files accessed by a specific MPLS playlist - which is what I mean when I talk of seamless branching. Anyway tested two junctions and works flawlessly. So go figure. The only other ripped disk with seamless branching I have is Aliens. With a previous firmware I could just about to get it to to work and branching was fine. However I cannot get it to play at all with 2.2.61 or 2.2.65. All this has been reported to Zidoo.
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post #1327 of 1557 Old 05-25-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
My experience is they take all our comments into account.


Currently high on my wishlist is for HT2 category improvements, although I must admit I haven't emailed about that yet...
I have emailed them about HT2 - more than once!

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post #1328 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
That was an experience with one disk - which when I tested with previous firmware had glitches but did not freeze.

Just tested The Great Gatsby UHD. This has multiple M2TS files accessed by a specific MPLS playlist - which is what I mean when I talk of seamless branching. Anyway tested two junctions and works flawlessly. So go figure. The only other ripped disk with seamless branching I have is Aliens. With a previous firmware I could just about to get it to to work and branching was fine. However I cannot get it to play at all with 2.2.61 or 2.2.65. All this has been reported to Zidoo.
Thanks for the feedback, can’t test for a couple of weeks, what version of the firmware are you advising to run with ?

What about Incredibles2 and Thor Ragnarok ?
(Either HD or UHD)
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post #1329 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
I have emailed them about HT2 - more than once!

What was the response?

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post #1330 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 02:59 AM
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Not much to go on, but it looks like Zidoo are developing an app:


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post #1331 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
Thanks for the feedback, can’t test for a couple of weeks, what version of the firmware are you advising to run with ?

What about Incredibles2 and Thor Ragnarok ?
(Either HD or UHD)
First test I did was Thor Ranarok UHD - this has about three or four M2TS files. It freezes at the join of the first/second, glitches at the next and freezes at the last. Not tried Incredibles 2.

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post #1332 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
What was the response?
I first made requested changes back in December - no specific response other than they have passed my concerns to the tech department.

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post #1333 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
First test I did was Thor Ranarok UHD - this has about three or four M2TS files. It freezes at the join of the first/second, glitches at the next and freezes at the last. Not tried Incredibles 2.

Comparing your description to the playback on the Pro 4k, where it plays smoothly across the joins, it sounds like Zidoo are still in the process of fixing it.
But, if you read back (a few posts ago) where I mention Dune's beta firmware which fixed seamless branching, it's evident the Blu-ray engine plays a significant role in how seamless branching is handled.
Dune commented that they were providing the same functionality in their Blu-ray engine for the pro as in their Sigma platform.
That's the point I've been making throughout this discussion.
It’s not a case of it nearly working. It either works or it doesn’t

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post #1334 of 1557 Old 05-26-2019, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Yes indeed, forced subtitles are working on MKVs.


If you have subtitles turned off but start an MKV with forced subs, a message comes up saying "English forced subtitles enabled" for example, and the subs come up perfectly.
I am just curious how this works with pgs subtitles, do the streams need to marked as forced like you can do using mkvtoolnix.

Or can it detect forced pgs subs in a stream that has both forced and non forced parts?

I remember when i used mpc-hc you could set a rule and it would almost detect the parts of a blu ray rip pgs subtitle stream that had the forced flag and would automatically create and enable a stream composed of only those forced parts. In kodi for windows i used to have to select the stream and disable subtitles and it would then just play the forced pgs subtitle sections.

Im just not sure to what end the word forced subtitle subtitle support in an mkv is used.

So if you played a well known movie such as avatar on blu-ray which has an english pgs stream and in that stream is forced and non forced parts, can the zidoo pick out just the forced parts?
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post #1335 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Murilo View Post
I am just curious how this works with pgs subtitles, do the streams need to marked as forced like you can do using mkvtoolnix.

Or can it detect forced pgs subs in a stream that has both forced and non forced parts?

I remember when i used mpc-hc you could set a rule and it would almost detect the parts of a blu ray rip pgs subtitle stream that had the forced flag and would automatically create and enable a stream composed of only those forced parts. In kodi for windows i used to have to select the stream and disable subtitles and it would then just play the forced pgs subtitle sections.

Im just not sure to what end the word forced subtitle subtitle support in an mkv is used.

So if you played a well known movie such as avatar on blu-ray which has an english pgs stream and in that stream is forced and non forced parts, can the zidoo pick out just the forced parts?

Very interesting question - I can't see any reason why such a stream could not be muxed into an MKV but I suspect that the Zidoo would not pick up a flag within the stream, I'm pretty sure it just looks at the container flag.


I you fancy demuxing such a stream and sending by PM, I'll give it a go though..

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post #1336 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
I first made requested changes back in December - no specific response other than they have passed my concerns to the tech department.

I sent an email yesterday about:


1. Separate TV & Movie categories


2. User definable Categories


3. Adding movie properties (badges) at scrape time


4. Show Audio & Video codecs in movie properties


I got this reply:


"Thanks for your suggestion, all of them will be feedback to engineers and hope it could be acheived.


But some of advice, like point 3, we are afraid it might not be acheived, as it could only know exact properties after it is played.


If there is update for HT2, we will inform you."


Shame about point 3, but that would seem to indicate that HT2, being a separate application, does not hook mediaInfo, but the player does.

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post #1337 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
I sent an email yesterday about:


1. Separate TV & Movie categories


2. User definable Categories


3. Adding movie properties (badges) at scrape time


4. Show Audio & Video codecs in movie properties


I got this reply:


"Thanks for your suggestion, all of them will be feedback to engineers and hope it could be acheived.


But some of advice, like point 3, we are afraid it might not be acheived, as it could only know exact properties after it is played.


If there is update for HT2, we will inform you."


Shame about point 3, but that would seem to indicate that HT2, being a separate application, does not hook mediaInfo, but the player does.
Maybe they refer to limitations you find in scrapers such as yaDIS. yaDIS cannot access media info for ISO files so defaults to AC3 5.1 and you can manually set the media info. It handles single MKV and BDMV folders fine.

If that's what they mean I'm OK with that.

Nice to see they at least they engage with customers.

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post #1338 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by blenky View Post
Maybe they refer to limitations you find in scrapers such as yaDIS. yaDIS cannot access media info for ISO files so defaults to AC3 5.1 and you can manually set the media info. It handles single MKV and BDMV folders fine.

If that's what they mean I'm OK with that.

Nice to see they at least they engage with customers.

I can see problems with ISOs and indeed with BDMV structures because the main transport stream(s) would have to be identified and doubly so in the case of ISOs as it would have to be mounted before being interrogated - not really within the scope of a scraper, particularly on a soc box.


But given it doesn't work with MKV either, I just don't think it calls mediaInfo.


One of the issues with not identifying media types is that it makes the built in categories such as "4K" in HT2 next to useless as it will only show the 4K movies you've watched. I assume the same is true of the 3D category, but I've not tested that since I don't use 3D movies. Presumably the Blu-Ray category works with BDMV if not ISO before playing?


(I know you can append the movie title by the way, but I don't really want to have to do that for compatibility with other players)

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post #1339 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
I can see problems with ISOs and indeed with BDMV structures because the main transport stream(s) would have to be identified and doubly so in the case of ISOs as it would have to be mounted before being interrogated - not really within the scope of a scraper, particularly on a soc box.


But given it doesn't work with MKV either, I just don't think it calls mediaInfo.


One of the issues with not identifying media types is that it makes the built in categories such as "4K" in HT2 next to useless as it will only show the 4K movies you've watched. I assume the same is true of the 3D category, but I've not tested that since I don't use 3D movies. Presumably the Blu-Ray category works with BDMV if not ISO before playing?


(I know you can append the movie title by the way, but I don't really want to have to do that for compatibility with other players)
It should be updated to call mediainfo when scraping and make it easy, like yaDIS, to manually update media info where it can't access the video file directly e.g ISOs. I did try updating the file names to add '4K' etc but it's a pain and really messed up yaDIS on the Dune!

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post #1340 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 04:33 PM
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Very interesting question - I can't see any reason why such a stream could not be muxed into an MKV but I suspect that the Zidoo would not pick up a flag within the stream, I'm pretty sure it just looks at the container flag. The Martian one is a separate track already with the forced bits, but it is the second English one, and I don't think marked as default


I you fancy demuxing such a stream and sending by PM, I'll give it a go though..
Yeah subtitles are a bit of a bane, especially the forced subs in bits for some movies (eg The Martian). I was wondering if there was such a thing as a single subtitle track where only some parts of it were forced. So Avatar has that?

The other problem is 3D. Not many tools handle full frame packed 3D properly that I'm aware of where you can add a subtitle track, so for example say you wanted to add a forced subtitle track you made buy cutting all the non-forced bits out so it just contained the forced subs, and make that a forced track, good luck. At least I'm not aware of any. MKVToolnix doesn't seem to handle frame packed 3d. MakeMKV handles 3d but not any remuxing.

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post #1341 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 04:42 PM
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I upgraded my AVR recently, from an old 2008 Onkyo to a new 4k Yamaha TSR-7850. In both cases, the image/video were slightly darker. Not sure if there is anything I can to to elevate the brightness other than adjusting my projectors (2k and 4k).

Separately, I noticed when I increased or decreased the volume, there is no screen display (other than the AVR itself), but it's there with Roku and 4k BR player ever since my 4k upgrade.

TIA.
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post #1342 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 04:51 PM
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Oops. Found one of my answers. Under the picture parameter, I can increase the brightness.

On the HDMI display part, it keeps defaulting to 1080p with my 4k projector; Auto does not hold.
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post #1343 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Yeah subtitles are a bit of a bane, especially the forced subs in bits for some movies (eg The Martian). I was wondering if there was such a thing as a single subtitle track where only some parts of it were forced. So Avatar has that?

The other problem is 3D. Not many tools handle full frame packed 3D properly that I'm aware of where you can add a subtitle track, so for example say you wanted to add a forced subtitle track you made buy cutting all the non-forced bits out so it just contained the forced subs, and make that a forced track, good luck. At least I'm not aware of any. MKVToolnix doesn't seem to handle frame packed 3d. MakeMKV handles 3d but not any remuxing.
I use MKVtoolnix all the time with 3d files.... especially to add Atmos tracks from the 4K or 2D versions to the 3D video...in addition, after I determine the proper PGS forced subtitle track with Mediainfo, I use MKVtoolnix to flag it as Forced and/or simply get rid of the other subtitle tracks...
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post #1344 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 05:28 PM
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I use MKVtoolnix all the time with 3d files.... especially to add Atmos tracks from the 4K or 2D versions to the 3D video...in addition, after I determine the proper PGS forced subtitle track with Mediainfo, I use MKVtoolnix to flag it as Forced and/or simply get rid of the other subtitle tracks...
Hmm. I must be doing something wrong then. When I tried it on the weekend it messed up the 3d and did 2d. I did check the video stream (which wasn't ticked when I added the MPLS). I tried googling and thought from what I read it didn't do frame packed.

Any tips?
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post #1345 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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Hmm. I must be doing something wrong then. When I tried it on the weekend it messed up the 3d and did 2d. I did check the video stream (which wasn't ticked when I added the MPLS). I tried googling and thought from what I read it didn't do frame packed.

Any tips?
I have no idea why that wouldn't be working for you.....you should be able to verify that you indeed are remuxing a frame packed video stream by highlighting it on the left box and checking the individual "properties" adjustment parameters on the right side box... scroll down to the video properties and you should see one for "stereoscopy"... it should say something like "both eyes laced in one block".....
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post #1346 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 05:43 PM
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I have no idea why that wouldn't be working for you.....you should be able to verify that you indeed are remuxing a frame packed video stream by highlighting it on the left box and checking the individual "properties" adjustment parameters on the right side box... scroll down to the video properties and you should see one for "stereoscopy"... it should say something like "both eyes laced in one block".....
OK thanks. so that one means frame packed?

Seems I spend so much time on audio and subtitle remuxing projects over the years. And now after I've more or less finished all my backlog of 3d atmos fixes, I am wanting / needing now to sort out the subtitles. I recently redid one (2d) where I extracted and OCR'd the subs, and regenerated a sup file with smaller, at the BOTTOM of the screen, and partially transparent subs. Something more appropriate to my 115" projector screen I watched it last night and so much better...

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post #1347 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 09:57 PM
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Hmm. I must be doing something wrong then. When I tried it on the weekend it messed up the 3d and did 2d. I did check the video stream (which wasn't ticked when I added the MPLS). I tried googling and thought from what I read it didn't do frame packed.

Any tips?
What player are you using? Even if the file is properly created and the streams correctly flagged, the player might require the file name to have a component like *.MVC.* or something to recognize and play as 3D by default.
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post #1348 of 1557 Old 05-27-2019, 10:15 PM
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What player are you using? Even if the file is properly created and the streams correctly flagged, the player might require the file name to have a component like *.MVC.* or something to recognize and play as 3D by default.
A z9s - but the file was too small compared to the source, which tipped me straight up, and when I opened it elsewhere just showed I think 1 stream, avc.
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post #1349 of 1557 Old 05-28-2019, 10:58 AM
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Just announced on the Zidoo forum that the Z9S will support SDR.2020.


Now that is impressive and along with correct HDR SEI reporting, this really sets it apart from the rest...


It'll depend on how they apply gamma of course, but it's another tool in the bag for pj owners.
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post #1350 of 1557 Old 05-28-2019, 12:09 PM
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Just announced on the Zidoo forum that the Z9S will support SDR.2020.


Now that is impressive and along with correct HDR SEI reporting, this really sets it apart from the rest...
If only it supported seamless branching and forced subs on BDMV and ISO playback, missing basic functionality.

Is it such a great idea anyway......
“Those modes (SDR BT 2020) are close to "fake me a wide color gammut image" modes on TVs, maybe a little bit better, if the Bluray Players manufacturers knows what he is doing are doing. The issue still remains, that if you display a color at 100% of its intended saturation, but at 25% of its intended brightness, it still the wrong color. and if you have 5 colors at that 100% saturation level, same xy coordinates, and 26%, 40%, 60%, 80% and 100% intended brightness, they would still be shown as the same wrong color (25% of intended brightness) on your setup. This ruins the image (= massive clipping, and wrong colors). So what the Projector manufacturer, or the Blueray manufacturer does in this case, is to compress the dynamic range (resorting in wrong color mappings), but preserving "full saturation" (resulting in even more wrong color perception.).”

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