New Zidoo Z9S and Z10 (RTD1296 SoC) - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 1761 Old 12-01-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DVideoBuff View Post
Agreed. I'm a latecomer to Zidoo family (spring of 2018) and don't know the beginning of stutter just what people say in forums. Quite possible it was always there. Some people don't see it at all and I thing Zidoo guys belong to this grup Your testing and my slow motion videos on Zidoo forum put more pressure on the issue.


They can't deny now. They even asked me for the links


That is one thing you can definitely say for Zidoo - their support team are great - very communicative and they respond very quickly and very personally to emails.
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post #152 of 1761 Old 12-01-2018, 04:46 PM
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I don't think so - all the literature I've seen says it's the 1295.


I think given the length of time the 1295 has been out, and with all the firmware revisions on all the devices and yet no-one has ever nailed the frame-rate, it kind of says it all. As I've said before though, I'd love to be proved wrong.


I've had an X9S since they were released and I've never seen it without stutter - Early on all the reports were anecdotal, and it is a difficult one to pin down - it's only recently we've had the tools and information to pin down the reason and make some empirical measurements.
RE : High end Dune players
http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full...dia_players/58

Specification

Media processor: Realtek RTD1296 SoC
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post #153 of 1761 Old 12-01-2018, 06:39 PM
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To those w/HDFury Vertex, worth getting? What do you get w/it other than device output details?

Hi-deft Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #154 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
To those w/HDFury Vertex, worth getting? What do you get w/it other than device output details?

100% worth getting - You get full control over info frames, EDIDs, HDR manipulation and a shed load more - the best bit of kit I've bought for a long time.
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post #155 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
RE : High end Dune players
http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full...dia_players/58

Specification

Media processor: Realtek RTD1296 SoC

That's the old landing page for the original concept for the Ultra HD based on the Zidoo X20 that never saw light of day. Remember way before the Pro was released? and then mysteriously the picture disappeared? and then they seemed to forget it ever existed?


This is the one they seem to be actually shipping:


http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full...dia_players/62


Media processor: Realtek RTD1295 SoC
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post #156 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 04:26 AM
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Has anyone had this problem before? Browsing folders on my PC through the Media Center app, when I click on a drive, the Zidoo cannot see the first folder? For example, on my D drive there is a folder called Drama, it's there, but not visible in Media Center, but other folders are. But when I create a new blank folder, called 'C', the drama folder appears, but not the C folder.
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post #157 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DVideoBuff View Post
Agreed. I'm a latecomer to Zidoo family (spring of 2018) and don't know the beginning of stutter just what people say in forums. Quite possible it was always there. Some people don't see it at all and I thing Zidoo guys belong to this grup Your testing and my slow motion videos on Zidoo forum put more pressure on the issue.


They can't deny now. They even asked me for the links
Thanks for your persistence on the Zidoo forum with regards to the problem. Your persistence in posting and video evidence along with Marks frame rate summary chart is hopefully enough information/evidence to get a correction. If the X9S can playback the correct frame rate with 3D, it's hard to imagine it can't be done for 2K or 4k.
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post #158 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Whirlpool0548 View Post
After reading comments about the Zidoo Z9S, I decided to investigate the new player for myself, to see (apart from the fix for the stutter issue - “the stutter never bothered me anyway”), whether in other respects this player is superior to the Dune Pro 4K.

Initial Observations :

1. With both players on the network, playing the same movie, there is no obvious difference in video quality between the two players for 4K playback. But, for DVD, I believe the Dune Pro 4K does a better job of upscaling. (Not a big issue as my display does a better upscaling job than either player).

2. Some users have no interest in menus, but comparing the menu playback implementation to that of the Dune Pro 4K, although the Z9S supports UHD blu-Ray menus, there is a general issue with menu playback for both UHD and HD blu-ray menu playback. When playback starts, the studio logo and pre-amble logos are displayed very briefly (not displayed in the usual way) the menu loop starts, but then immediately restarts ???
It looks messy. The Pro 4K doesn’t have UHD blu-Ray menus (yet), but, there is no such issue with HD blu-ray menu playback. Reading back on the Zidoo forums, it appears this has been an ongoing issue with the X9S. I have emailed Zidoo support about this.

3. There appears to be no equivalent to the Pro 4k’s Time search facility. It looks like the only way to get to a time point in the playback is FWD or REW, unless anyone has found this functionality on the Z9S ?

General observation, in my opinion, the Dune’s HCI ‘look’ and ‘feel’ looks more developed.
I don’t use movie wall or scraping features, so can’t comment.

I plan to use the Z9S as the main player for a while to see how it compares with the Dune Pro 4K.
Bummer - one of the things I was hoping it would be good at...

EDIT: Were you scaling DVD to 4K or 1080?

Still waiting on mine...

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post #159 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 08:37 AM
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Bummer - one of the things I was hoping it would be good at...

EDIT: Were you scaling DVD to 4K or 1080?

Still waiting on mine...
The Z9S DVD player functionality is better, with more aspect ratio options, but, the Pro 4K scales to 4K better than the Z9S.
My display scales better than the Z9S and the Pro 4K.

If you are after a better developed DVD player then (currently) the Z9S is better, just use your display to do the upscaling.
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post #160 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
To those w/HDFury Vertex, worth getting? What do you get w/it other than device output details?
You could probably get 3D MVC Kodi version going on Intel NUC with HDMI 2.0 port with this device.
I remember reading somewhere in the forum about it. Intel graphic chip with HDMI 2.0 had something messed up in 3D MVC format. Once you fixed ID's and some frequency the signal was actually correct 3D.
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post #161 of 1761 Old 12-02-2018, 04:19 PM
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3D MVC on Intel w/Kodi is dying. See my thread here; at one point, it was one of the best ways to watch full 3D. At present, I rely on Zidoo X9S, and Raspberry Pi 3 B+ secondarily.

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post #162 of 1761 Old 12-03-2018, 08:57 AM
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Is there any improvement in the Movie Wall - Scraper in the Z series from the X series? I have the x9s and the implementation of the Movie Wall, particularly when mixing in TV Series, is awful. Episodes of TV series are misidentified as Movies and I have found no way to correct this. Placing Movies and TV Series in different folders on my harddrives doesn't solve the problem. There are things I like about the Zidoo, but between the frame rate playback issue and the Movie Wall, it's a deal breaker for me. I do not have either of these problems with the Zappiti.

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post #163 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by johng View Post
Is there any improvement in the Movie Wall - Scraper in the Z series from the X series? I have the x9s and the implementation of the Movie Wall, particularly when mixing in TV Series, is awful. Episodes of TV series are misidentified as Movies and I have found no way to correct this. Placing Movies and TV Series in different folders on my harddrives doesn't solve the problem. There are things I like about the Zidoo, but between the frame rate playback issue and the Movie Wall, it's a deal breaker for me. I do not have either of these problems with the Zappiti.

Not sure if you're referring to the original Home Theatre app or version 2, but as far as I know both players now use the same app, Home Theatre 2.


And it works very well - ok you get the occasional funky scrape, but it's very easy to rectify either on screen or via a web browser and it's usually down to bad file naming - get that right and 90% of your problems are gone.


If you want to categorise your collection, eg 2K movies & 4K movies or if you use it for TV shows (I don't) then you can put them into different folders as you say and then use filters to view them independently.


You can choose to scrape with either TMDB or TVDB if the "smart" scraping doesn't work - all in all like any scraper, you need to have a bit of input, but it's very painless and very accurate if used correctly.


The wall can be viewed at several sizes, either with or without labels.


I'm also unsure what you mean about the frame rate issue with the Z9S - as we've seen, it plays frame-perfectly, without micro-stutter in all modes, 2K & 4K and the only playback issue I've seen is what is presumably an 8-bit pipeline in 12-bit 422 playback resulting in chroma banding - but you'd only want to use that mode if you have an HDMI 1.4 sink anyway.

Last edited by markswift2003; 12-04-2018 at 06:12 AM.
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post #164 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
3D MVC on Intel w/Kodi is dying. See my thread here; at one point, it was one of the best ways to watch full 3D. At present, I rely on Zidoo X9S, and Raspberry Pi 3 B+ secondarily.
Can you give me a lay mans steps to using a Zidoo X10 or X9S - please ...

I am mainly interested in ripping my 3D movie collection and using the Zidoo to pay.

Steps:

1. Buy Zidoo
2. Rip 3D Blu Ray or UHD - how do you do this? Is there a social software needed? What format do you need to rip in?
3. Rip using a PC ? If BD then the PC should have BD Drive correct? and if UHD then it should have a UHD Drive??
4. Is there a certain directory structure you need to follow or just put the movie files on a USB and dump on to the Zideoo hard drive??
5. Any other best practices to follow?
6. Is there a tutorial on this available online??

Thanks and sorry for asking so many questions :-)
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post #165 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Not sure if you're referring to the original Home Theatre app or version 2, but as far as I know both players now use the same app, Home Theatre 2.


And it works very well - ok you get the occasional funky scrape, but it's very easy to rectify either on screen or via a web browser and it's usually down to bad file naming - get that right and 90% of your problems are gone.


If you want to categorise your collection, eg 2K movies & 4K movies or if you use it for TV shows (I don't) then you can put them into different folders as you say and then use filters to view them independently.


You can choose to scrape with either TMDB or TVDB if the "smart" scraping doesn't work - all in all like any scraper, you need to have a bit of input, but it's very painless and very accurate if used correctly.




I'm also unsure what you mean about the frame rate issue with the Z9S - as we've seen, it plays frame-perfectly, without micro-stutter in all modes, 2K & 4K and the only playback issue I've seen is what is presumably an 8-bit pipeline in 12-bit 422 playback resulting in chroma banding - but you'd only want to use that mode if you have an HDMI 1.4 sink anyway.
Is there a tutorial somewhere that explains how to correct a title that is incorrectly identified? I'm using V2 of the Home Theater App. I'm storing all titles on a server, with TV shows in one folder and movies in another. When I scrape the NAS, Zidoo mixes up the 2 folders, misidentifying all the TV shows as movies. I also have a Zappiti and the titles display perfectly, properly sorted into "Movies" and "TV Shows".


The frame rate issue I'm referring to is the momentary stutter that's been well documented in this thread.

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post #166 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 10:06 AM
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Is there a tutorial somewhere that explains how to correct a title that is incorrectly identified? I'm using V2 of the Home Theater App. I'm storing all titles on a server, with TV shows in one folder and movies in another. When I scrape the NAS, Zidoo mixes up the 2 folders, misidentifying all the TV shows as movies. I also have a Zappiti and the titles display perfectly, properly sorted into "Movies" and "TV Shows".


The frame rate issue I'm referring to is the momentary stutter that's been well documented in this thread.

I've never seen a tutorial, I just figured it out as things needed fixing - the main thing to know is when you have the incorrect poster highlighted on the wall, either long-press <ok> or press <popup-menu> and that brings up the context menu where there's an option to rematch.


You can use names or IMDB numbers to identify.


On the main "top level" of the wall, yes, you will see everything mixed up, but press <menu> then <filter> and you'll see your sources on the left hand side so you can choose which drive or folder you want to use - assuming you have them each separately defined as a source.


Stutter - To be fair, you may be in the wrong forum this is the Z9S forum not the X9S and although the X9S is, and I believe always will be due to hardware constraints, plagued with micro-stutter due to the frame rates being over 23.976 (actually 23.978) so video has to repeat a frame every 8m20s or so to maintain audio sync, the Z9S does not suffer from this problem at all.


The Z9S has a framerate of 23.974 in all modes which it has in common with big brand UHD bluray players (Oppo, Panasonic) and the Nvidia Shield and video is rock solid. (I believe when frame rate is just lower than 23.976, audio is padded, but I stand to be corrected - certainly frames are not skipped as you might expect).

Last edited by markswift2003; 12-04-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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post #167 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
I've never seen a tutorial, I just figured it out as things needed fixing - the main thing to know is when you have the incorrect poster highlighted on the wall, either long-press <ok> or press <popup-menu> and that brings up the context menu where there's an option to rematch.


You can use names or IMDB numbers to identify.


On the main "top level" of the wall, yes, you will see everything mixed up, but press <menu> then <filter> and you'll see your sources on the left hand side so you can choose which drive or folder you want to use - assuming you have them each separately defined as a source.


Stutter - To be fair, you may be in the wrong forum this is the Z9S forum not the X9S and although the X9S is, and I believe always will be due to hardware constraints, plagued with micro-stutter due to the frame rates being over 23.976 (actually 23.978) so video has to repeat a frame every 8m20s or so to maintain audio sync, the Z9S does not suffer from this problem at all.


The Z9S has a framerate of 23.974 in all modes which it has in common with big brand UHD bluray players (Oppo, Panasonic) and the Nvidia Shield and video is rock solid. (I believe when frame rate is just lower than 23.976, audio is padded, but I stand to be corrected - certainly frames are not skipped as you might expect).
Thanks, Mark. You are correct, I thought I had posted to the X9s thread. Since the frame rate issue is fixed in the Z9s I may pick one up. Thanks also for the tips on correcting the thumbnails.

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post #168 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 11:08 AM
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Thanks, Mark. You are correct, I thought I had posted to the X9s thread. Since the frame rate issue is fixed in the Z9s I may pick one up. Thanks also for the tips on correcting the thumbnails.

Don't worry - I've posted in the Dune thread thinking I was in this one..


I didn't think there'd be that much difference in the 1296 SOC over the 1295 - on paper, it's just better RAM and more IO, but I got one out of curiosity and haven't been disappointed - Even if Realtek would never admit it, they do seem to have fixed the shortcomings of the 1295.
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post #169 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 02:42 PM
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This info from their site reads like marketing info but maybe they did indeed take the feedback posted on their forum about the framerate issues with the 1295 and worked with RT to make some changes which we're seeing now with the Z9s.



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post #170 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 06:58 PM
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Let's don't get carried out too far with all that joy about Realtek 1296.

Web-Dl files are still limping. Maybe not the stutter like previous chip but outputting 23.976fps as 60fps is not desired. I'm sure there are some motion blips with this conversion.
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post #171 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post
3D MVC on Intel w/Kodi is dying. See my thread here; at one point, it was one of the best ways to watch full 3D. At present, I rely on Zidoo X9S, and Raspberry Pi 3 B+ secondarily.
The Raspberry Pi is buttery smooth on 3D playback - no strobing at all. The X9S does ok but the strobing kind of sucks (to be fair almost all 3D playback strobes).
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post #172 of 1761 Old 12-04-2018, 09:21 PM
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Let's don't get carried out too far with all that joy about Realtek 1296.

Web-Dl files are still limping. Maybe not the stutter like previous chip but outputting 23.976fps as 60fps is not desired. I'm sure there are some motion blips with this conversion.

I tried the same files on the Shield and Oppo 203, they both play at 23.974 reported on the Vertex. They should be able to fix the detection of the framerate for these specific files. At least there is the option to quickly convert to TS file and play back at the proper framerate which doesn't happen on the Dune 4K Pro or the X9s.

the big deal imo is finally fixing the framerates for 1:1 UHD MKV's. I would use the Zidoo or Dune for 3D and swap to the Shield or Oppo for UHD. now finally 1 box that can handle both. certainly not perfect but definitely more functional than the 2 1295's models I have on the shelf.
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post #173 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DVideoBuff View Post
Let's don't get carried out too far with all that joy about Realtek 1296.

Web-Dl files are still limping. Maybe not the stutter like previous chip but outputting 23.976fps as 60fps is not desired. I'm sure there are some motion blips with this conversion.

Let's be careful about what works, what doesn't and why - those WebDL files are pretty specific in that they don't have correct frame-rate information, so they are technically substandard in the first place.

@zombie10k tested with Framerate on the Z9S set to auto which resulted in playback at 1080p60 which you would expect - the player seems to revert to 1080p60 if framerate info is missing just as it does if EDID is missing, which is logical.


Once he'd remuxed the file with correct framerate info, it played as expected at the correct framerate.


I tried the original file with framerate specifically set to 23.976 on the Z9S (Resolution set to 3840x2160p 23Hz which is my default setting), and it played back flawlessly, again behaviour you would expect.


So given the technical aspects of the file (framerate info missing) and the settings used to test, the behaviour is exactly what you would expect it to be.


Ok, Zidoo may or may not be able to introduce framerate recognition for such files, but this is a file issue rather than a player issue.


We just need to be sure apples are apples here.
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post #174 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 01:42 AM
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@markswift2003 can you test the Z9S for YUV clipping?
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post #175 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 02:35 AM
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@markswift2003 can you test the Z9S for YUV clipping?

I did check the Dune Pro for colour clipping a while ago with the Spears & Munsil Chroma Alignment pattern and it passed.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post56923226


Given the chipset family, I'd expect the Z9S to be the same, but I'll check to be sure.


Haha - just realised it was you that asked about the Dune originally
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post #176 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Let's be careful about what works, what doesn't and why - those WebDL files are pretty specific in that they don't have correct frame-rate information, so they are technically substandard in the first place.

@zombie10k tested with Framerate on the Z9S set to auto which resulted in playback at 1080p60 which you would expect - the player seems to revert to 1080p60 if framerate info is missing just as it does if EDID is missing, which is logical.


Once he'd remuxed the file with correct framerate info, it played as expected at the correct framerate.


I tried the original file with framerate specifically set to 23.976 on the Z9S (Resolution set to 3840x2160p 23Hz which is my default setting), and it played back flawlessly, again behaviour you would expect.


So given the technical aspects of the file (framerate info missing) and the settings used to test, the behaviour is exactly what you would expect it to be.


Ok, Zidoo may or may not be able to introduce framerate recognition for such files, but this is a file issue rather than a player issue.


We just need to be sure apples are apples here.
Media Info reports correct 23.976fps and any other player plays those files correctly. TSMuxes is pretty old program that hasn't been updated for years. It is reporting missing frame rate info in the video stream. There are probably some other file tags inside MKV container reporting 23.976. It looks like Zidoo is following the old standard from TSMuxer days and not recognizing correct frame rate. If the stutter is not there it's probably a quick software fix to read the frame rate from MKV tags.
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post #177 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 09:51 AM
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Media Info reports correct 23.976fps and any other player plays those files correctly. TSMuxes is pretty old program that hasn't been updated for years. It is reporting missing frame rate info in the video stream. There are probably some other file tags inside MKV container reporting 23.976. It looks like Zidoo is following the old standard from TSMuxer days and not recognizing correct frame rate. If the stutter is not there it's probably a quick software fix to read the frame rate from MKV tags.

I'm not sure why one program reports and one doesn't because as far as I know both would get it from a calculation of frame duration, but interestingly for a standard ripped movie, MediaInfo reports a framerate of 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS as expected, but your WebDL file shows 23.976 (23976/1000) FPS which is non standard, so again, I'd say there's something dodgy with the file and the Z9S is interpreting the information as expected - ie playing back at 60fps in auto (the default) and 23.976 when forced.


As far as the stutter goes, which only occurs on the X9S remember, if it stutters on 24000/1001 material I'm not surprised it does similar on 23976/1000, so interpreting the framerate as 24000/1001 will not remove the stutter, just change the cadence perhaps.
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post #178 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 10:21 AM
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The PQ of those low bitrate files doesn't look great at 142". They are certainly watchable but would much prefer the 1:1 UHD MKV

btw, I tested Bill Lynn's halftime walk at 4K/60 and it had no issues as expected.
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post #179 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 01:06 PM
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As far as the stutter goes, which only occurs on the X9S remember, if it stutters on 24000/1001 material I'm not surprised it does similar on 23976/1000, so interpreting the framerate as 24000/1001 will not remove the stutter, just change the cadence perhaps.
The stutter is different from other single frame repeat. It's multi frame adjustment like it's trying to synchronize with audio or something.

Web-Dl is probably optimized for streaming but I don't believe there is anything wrong with it. I plays everywhere else OK and it's not one time bad file issue.
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post #180 of 1761 Old 12-05-2018, 01:10 PM
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The PQ of those low bitrate files doesn't look great at 142". They are certainly watchable but would much prefer the 1:1 UHD MKV

btw, I tested Bill Lynn's halftime walk at 4K/60 and it had no issues as expected.

So what's your verdict so far on this little machine?


I think we have fairly similar rooms - your screen is slightly bigger and your room a bit darker and I have motorised masking but I think our projectors and sources are close - I'm using my own custom curve which I created manually and I have to say I've never seen HDR look as good as it does with this box. I don't see why it should look better than the Shield, but it does, and in combination with the Vertex connected by 232 to my Crestron system to control PJ modes, I'm made up with the new Zidoo.....
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