Renting 4K Titles - Industry Imposed Delays - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 09-30-2018, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Renting 4K Titles - Industry Imposed Delays

Just a rant really. How long before the industry gets it? When new titles become available via disc or stream, there is often a lag between purchase availability and rental availability for the stream. But now, the 4K version remains in "buy only" mode for an extended period of time for premium titles, thereby actually diminishing any excitement anyone might have about it in the first place. Oh yay, we get Infinity Wars a month later than everyone! :|

When will the studios realize that content is content, and format is format? Delaying rental availability just delays rentals, and does not translate into a significant change in purchasing behavior for 99% of us.

Customers who are early-ish adopters of technology are already paying the bills for the rest of the marketplace. I think we deserve more than being treated as the content cash-cows.

I for one will NEVER buy content that I did not already intend to buy in the first place, and as a matter of principle I won't buy it until it's already available to rent as well.

/rant.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-02-2018, 07:36 AM
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So even if you were going to buy it anyway, you're going to wait until it's available to rent... and then buy it. Way to fall on your sword there

I agree that not having access to 4K rentals at release sucks... so does not having week-of access to ANY digital rental. Still, the studios probably have a pretty good idea of whether holding back rental availability drives purchases or not... if it didn't drive purchases, I doubt they would do it. There have been times I would have rented but bought and there have also been times I just rented 1080p... so I can see it going either way but, chances are, the studios have the data to know which way it really breaks.

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post #3 of 18 Old 10-03-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich C View Post
Just a rant really. How long before the industry gets it? When new titles become available via disc or stream, there is often a lag between purchase availability and rental availability for the stream. But now, the 4K version remains in "buy only" mode for an extended period of time for premium titles, thereby actually diminishing any excitement anyone might have about it in the first place. Oh yay, we get Infinity Wars a month later than everyone! :|

When will the studios realize that content is content, and format is format? Delaying rental availability just delays rentals, and does not translate into a significant change in purchasing behavior for 99% of us.

Customers who are early-ish adopters of technology are already paying the bills for the rest of the marketplace. I think we deserve more than being treated as the content cash-cows.

I for one will NEVER buy content that I did not already intend to buy in the first place, and as a matter of principle I won't buy it until it's already available to rent as well.

/rant.
Before they get it? They get it very well. The times between streaming purchase and rentals have increased from what they used to be. It's an incentive for people to buy the streaming version. And streaming is where it's at now for the vast majority of people. Streaming revenue accounts for more than Disc sales. Remember AVS is not representative of the masses. The studios know what they are doing. If anything the times might increase further in the future. But they probably won't decrease.

Plus UHD BD and UHD streaming has been out a while now. I've been purchasing, renting, and watching UHD BD titles since around February 10th, 2016. Over 2.5 years ago. And streaming UHD content since November 2015. Almost three years ago.

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post #4 of 18 Old 10-04-2018, 09:39 AM
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Streaming revenue accounts for more than Disc sales.
Apple to an orange. Disc sales ≫ EST.
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post #5 of 18 Old 10-04-2018, 11:57 AM
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Apple to an orange. Disc sales ≫ EST.
But Disc sales have been declining for years now. And streaming sales have been increasing. To the point that streaming has surpassed DIsc. And disc will never regain the crown. For the masses streaming is fine and the studios know it. There is a reason they put more emphasis on streaming than disc now.

heck most people still use the Tv speakers for audio. They are perfectly happy with what they get from streaming services. Of course, with people on this forum, it is typically just the opposite.

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post #6 of 18 Old 10-05-2018, 05:43 AM
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But Disc sales have been declining for years now. And streaming sales have been increasing. To the point that streaming has surpassed DIsc.
According to DEG mid year report (the latest), the sales of disc for Q2, in millions, was $887.73. The sales of Electronic sell thru (EST) for same period, in millions, was $552.73. The part the studios care about is this, YoY for physical + EST was down 11.67%

The point was disc sales is still ≫ EST sales. EST sales are actually pretty pathetic when one takes into account the number of devices capable of playing EST titles vs disc players.
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post #7 of 18 Old 10-05-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
According to DEG mid year report (the latest), the sales of disc for Q2, in millions, was $887.73. The sales of Electronic sell thru (EST) for same period, in millions, was $552.73. The part the studios care about is this, YoY for physical + EST was down 11.67%

The point was disc sales is still ≫ EST sales. EST sales are actually pretty pathetic when one takes into account the number of devices capable of playing EST titles vs disc players.
But is that even taking all streaming into account? Because the articles I read, took all streaming into account. Like VOD that people purchase and rent. And with all streaming it surpassed disc revenue a year or two ago. Streaming revenue is greater than disc revenue when you take all streaming sales and rentals compared to all disc sales and rentals.

Bottom line they are bringing in more revenue from Streaming than from disc now. Studios don't care about just sales, they care about all revenue from sales and rentals.

Disc revenue has been dropping for years while streaming revenue is still increasing.

The disc lost it's crown and will never regain it again.

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post #8 of 18 Old 10-05-2018, 02:55 PM
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But is that even taking all streaming into account?
Of course not, we are talking sales, physical vs EST. PPV (cable, satellite, Amazon, VUDU, etc.) = rental. Disc by mail, B&M and kiosk, all = rental, none of which is included in sales. VOD (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) = Pay TV. Some of the media folks get wrong by lumping VOD in with sales but it belongs in the Pay TV category. I have been streaming Netflix (VOD) for > 12 years but I don't own any of that content from them.

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post #9 of 18 Old 10-05-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Of course not, we are talking sales, physical vs EST. PPV (cable, satellite, Amazon, VUDU, etc.) = rental. Disc by mail, B&M and kiosk, all = rental, none of which is included in sales. VOD (Netflix, Amazon, etc.) = Pay TV. Some of the media folks get wrong by lumping VOD in with sales but it belongs in the Pay TV category. I have been streaming Netflix (VOD) for > 12 years but I don't own any of that content from them.

Need a favor and will ask in the Sony X800 thread.
In my opinion it all belongs together. Since that is how people consume content. From both sales and rentals. And as far as the movies studios. They probably prefer a rental over a purchase.

For me I buy some content on disc and buy some content digitally. I also rent some content on disc and rent some content digitally. And Like you I've been doing that for over twelve years digitally. But I never fully got into renting/purchasing digitally until getting several Vudu boxes in 2007.

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post #10 of 18 Old 10-06-2018, 12:17 AM
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Given the way you "buy" digital videos, it's really a rental. It's just the industry decided they want to charge $20 to rent it before the disc release and after a few months they drop the price to $5 or whatever. So if you want it immediately you can rent it early, of you want it cheaper then you wait.

And I say rental because even if you "buy" it, it may disappear from your account tomorrow. It's just a fancy rental.
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post #11 of 18 Old 10-06-2018, 06:23 AM
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And I say rental because even if you "buy" it, it may disappear from your account tomorrow. It's just a fancy rental.
It appears the majority of folks purchasing digital content NEVER read the TOS of the providers or the TOS of the content owners. Most seem unaware the content may be removed or they may have to pay more to continue access for any given title. The one that really gets me, you have to agree the TOS may change at any time, in whole or in part and they can do this without notice.

For me, I have a simple equation for content: No First Sale Doctrine Protection = No Sale. I have several DVD2Digital titles, if I lost them it would not be a great loss. In several cases the DVD is better than the digital version.
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post #12 of 18 Old 10-06-2018, 07:15 AM
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Given the way you "buy" digital videos, it's really a rental. It's just the industry decided they want to charge $20 to rent it before the disc release and after a few months they drop the price to $5 or whatever. So if you want it immediately you can rent it early, of you want it cheaper then you wait.

And I say rental because even if you "buy" it, it may disappear from your account tomorrow. It's just a fancy rental.
True, but all the HD titles I purchased in 2005/2006 from my XBox are still available for me to watch. Twelve or thirteen years later. Not sure about all the Vudu titles I purchased between 2007 and 2009 though. Since I purchased too many back then. And some were SD on Vudu. Which I would would never want to watch again anyway since they are in such a low resolution.
But I'm also pretty sure that Vudu updated some of those titles automatically to a higher resolution at some point. For some reason.

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post #13 of 18 Old 10-08-2018, 10:41 AM
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I don't like that streaming has become such a priority for studios but I understand it.

Personally, it really makes no difference....I gave up going to theaters....so the way I look at it....if I am willing to wait 3-4 months for a movie....I can wait an extra few weeks for the best version of the movie.
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-08-2018, 10:54 AM
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earlier it the year.. Redbox announced 4K UHD rentals is test areas....

https://variety.com/2018/digital/new...ls-1202818029/

hope it succeeds...
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post #15 of 18 Old 10-08-2018, 11:13 AM
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earlier it the year.. Redbox announced 4K UHD rentals is test areas....

https://variety.com/2018/digital/new...ls-1202818029/

hope it succeeds...
Not likely since you couldn't reserve it. You had to hope the title you wanted was available when you showed up at the Kiosk. Last I read they had stopped mentioning it on their website.

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Not likely since you couldn't reserve it. You had to hope the title you wanted was available when you showed up at the Kiosk. Last I read they had stopped mentioning it on their website.

awe..bummer…

anyone tried this site for 4K rentals..?

http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com...ory-s/1868.htm
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post #17 of 18 Old 10-08-2018, 11:33 AM
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awe..bummer…

anyone tried this site for 4K rentals..?

http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com...ory-s/1868.htm
I've been using them since 2012 for 3D and 2D BD rentals. And since February 2016 for UHD BD rentals. And I've also had the occasional game rental from them as well.

I currently have three UHD BD titles on the way to me from them.
Skyscraper, Hotel Artemis, and Constantine City of Demons.

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post #18 of 18 Old 10-08-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Before they get it? They get it very well. The times between streaming purchase and rentals have increased from what they used to be. It's an incentive for people to buy the streaming version. And streaming is where it's at now for the vast majority of people. Streaming revenue accounts for more than Disc sales. Remember AVS is not representative of the masses. The studios know what they are doing. If anything the times might increase further in the future. But they probably won't decrease.

Plus UHD BD and UHD streaming has been out a while now. I've been purchasing, renting, and watching UHD BD titles since around February 10th, 2016. Over 2.5 years ago. And streaming UHD content since November 2015. Almost three years ago.
Well that bad thing though is that people are still willing to pay a price premium for a UHD stream or "purchase" when it still never matches the A/V quality you get buying on disc. But to each their own, I am a hard core buy on disc person and will be until they pry them from my cold dead hands.
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