Official 2018 (new) FireTV Stick 4K--Dolby Vision, HDR10+, Dolby Atmos - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 03:31 PM
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Has anyone on this thread who owns the firetv 4k stick added a second gen fire cube to their system and if so are you receiving atmos in the Netflix app,and Disney plus app?

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post #1802 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
You can still have non HDR content and still be around 18Gbps. Like 444 at 60P and 8 bit which is 17.8 Gbps. Or 422 at 60P and 12 bit which is 17.8 Gbps.
To be specific there is no native [email protected] 4:4:4/RGB "content" for the FTV. The UI is not "content". Likewise 12b is not "non HDR" unless it's actually 8b. So the fundamental point regarding " Standard 2160p (4K) [vs] HDR 4K" stands. In fact if you include encapsulated Dolby Vision then to spec non-certified High Speed cables are sufficient to transport (some) HDR.

The real issue (as far as I can tell) not primarily cabling -- at least in the sense that replacing cables won't help. Particularly if "My AVR does not support HDCP2.2" is true. In that case by-passing the AVR or replacing cables is pointless if the goal is 4K.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #1803 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
To be specific there is no native [email protected] 4:4:4/RGB "content" for the FTV. The UI is not "content". Likewise 12b is not "non HDR" unless it's actually 8b. So the fundamental point regarding " Standard 2160p (4K) [vs] HDR 4K" stands. In fact if you include encapsulated Dolby Vision then to spec non-certified High Speed cables are sufficient to transport (some) HDR.

The real issue (as far as I can tell) not primarily cabling -- at least in the sense that replacing cables won't help. Particularly if "My AVR does not support HDCP2.2" is true. In that case by-passing the AVR or replacing cables is pointless if the goal is 4K.
If a device is outputting in the 422 color space with UHD, it is sending it as 12 bit. That is all that is allowed in the HDMI spec with the 422 colorspace at 2160P. Many receivers erroneously report it being 8 bit, when it's actually 12 bit. Like my Onkyo receiver does.
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post #1804 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
If a device is outputting in the 422 color space with UHD, it is sending it as 12 bit.
The point being I don't imagine there's any valid 8b content being sent as 4:2:2. It would be a device/configuration error forcing 8b 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 to 4:2:2.
And of course there's the relevant point regarding the OP trying to get 4K (I think).

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #1805 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The point being I don't imagine there's any valid 8b content being sent as 4:2:2. It would be a device/configuration error forcing 8b 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 to 4:2:2.
And of course there's the relevant point regarding the OP trying to get 4K (I think).
My 4K Fire TV sticks are always outputting at 2160P with 422 at 12 bit. At least for SDR and HDR10 content. Of course with DV it's sending RGB.
And a device sending 2160P60 with 444 has to be 8 bit. Since that is already at 17.8Gbps. Like what my UHD BD players send when in the Disc menus. Any higher bitdepth would push it past the 18Gbps limit. Which is why a higher bitdepth than 8bit is not allowed in the HDMI spec with 444 output at 2160P60.
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post #1806 of 2793 Old 11-14-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
That cable is almost certain to fail at what you're asking of it. As a test, either run a temporary direct connect to the PJ with a certified premium cable, or even just plug the FTV directly into the PJ.


Plugged FS directly into the hdcp2.2 port on the pj and nothing showed up. “No source”


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post #1807 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
My 4K Fire TV sticks are always outputting at 2160P with 422 at 12 bit. At least for SDR
Like I said -- 8b data pointlessly expanded to 12b. The whole FTS color space configuration system seems to be a great example of a poor UX.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #1808 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
My 4K Fire TV sticks are always outputting at 2160P with 422 at 12 bit. At least for SDR
Like I said -- 8b data pointlessly expanded to 12b. The whole FTS color space configuration system seems to be a great example of a poor UX.
Not pointless all. Like he said, it's expanded to 12b deliberately, there is no other option, otherwise it would not be possible to send over a hdmi 2.0 link since hdmi 2.0 does NOT support 4k 4:2:2 in 8 or 10 bit.
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post #1809 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Not pointless all. Like he said, it's expanded to 12b deliberately, there is no other option, otherwise it would not be possible to send over a hdmi 2.0 link since hdmi 2.0 does NOT support 4k 4:2:2 in 8 or 10 bit.
The UI isn't HDR (presumably it's HD scaled to 4K). The FTS sends 4K59.933 422 BT709 12b 593MHz*, it could also send the same 8b data as 4K59.933 420 BT709 8b SDR 297MHz*.

*HDfury style.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #1810 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The UI isn't HDR (presumably it's HD scaled to 4K). The FTS sends 4K59.933 422 BT709 12b 593MHz*, it could also send the same 8b data as 4K59.933 420 BT709 8b SDR 297MHz*.

*HDfury style.
This is true, but 4:2:0 would look even worse than 4:2:2, and it's the UI, which ideally would be full 4:4:4 or RGB. (The Samsung K8500 player I have uses the full-blown 17.82Gbps, 8bit 4:4:4/RGB mode for its UI for example). I was focussing on the 4:2:2 modes and replying to the assertion that the expansion was done "for no reason".

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post #1811 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This is true, but 4:2:0 would look even worse than 4:2:2, and it's the UI, which ideally would be full 4:4:4 or RGB. (The Samsung K8500 player I have uses the full-blown 17.82Gbps, 8bit 4:4:4/RGB mode for its UI for example). I was focussing on the 4:2:2 modes and replying to the assertion that the expansion was done "for no reason".
Plus all the streamed content and content on disc is in 420 to begin with anyway.

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post #1812 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Do you have resolution set to 2160 on the Fire Box? On my 2016 E6 OLED, I only get 1080p60 with DV from Netflix and Disney. Match frame rate does not work with those apps, so if I set Fire Cube to Auto resolution, it drops all resolution to 1080p on those apps, including 4K, 4K HDR10 and 4K DV HDR on my 4K tv. If I want 4K on those apps, I have to set resolution to 2160 on Fire Cube, but then I lose DV. What a pain. On Amazon Prime, There are no issues. Automatically switches to 4K24 for DV titles.
Set to Auto 4K. I don't get no HDR from any apps. might have to change cables. And I don't have an option to match framerate on my 2015 Fire Box. Don't really care for HDR, since my TV cannot spit it out over HDMI. I'm just confused as to why Disney+ app on the Fire Box sticks to 1080P, while Netflix/Amazon Prime on the Fire Box spits out 2160P with no problem?
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post #1813 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tomanystraydogs View Post
I have a Fire Stick 4K, not sure if the settings are the same but these are mine and Disney+ 4K Dolby Vision looks really good. Unfortunately it seems Disney+ does not support frame rate matching.
Nah, only got video resolution on my 2015 fire box
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post #1814 of 2793 Old 11-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This is true, but 4:2:0 would look even worse than 4:2:2, and it's the UI, which ideally would be full 4:4:4 or RGB. ... I was focussing on the 4:2:2 modes and replying to the assertion that the expansion was done "for no reason".
It is done for no reason beyond ineptitude. If your streamer UI doesn't look good in 4:2:0 or looks better in 4:2:2 than 4:2:0 that's on them (them = Amazon in this case).



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Plus all the streamed content and content on disc is in 420 to begin with anyway.
This is true but I don't undertand the point you're making.

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #1815 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hershy67 View Post
Quick Qustion: Can anyone confirm they can get Disney+ 4K content to actually spit out 2160P from the Amazon FireTV Box 4K (Gen2 from 2015)?? All i'm getting is 1080P and PCM audio.

My tv is a 2015 LG 55" EG9600 (No DolbyVision).

Amazon Prime Video and Netflix 4K Content successfully gives me 2160P.

But I just cant figure out how to get Disney+ to give me 2160P.

I already did factory reset on box and updated firmware, cleared cache/data, etc.

Any thoughts or feedback? Maybe I'll try a better hdmi cable later tonight.
[off thread subject topic]

I have the identical issue here on TWO Amazon Fire 2nd gen boxes. The Disney+ app won't do any better than 1080p with 2 channel PCM on either one, where the identical setup will deliver UHD and DD+ from Netflix and Prime. I think it's the Disney+ app that's borked.

On my LG OLED, the Disney+ app delivers UHD and DV, but also 2 channel PCM audio.

On my bedroom Sony 900e with the Disney+ app, I get UHD with HDR10, and DD+ audio over ARC to a Marantz 1608, just as I do with Netflix.

[on thread subject topic]

I just found this group, and without reading almost 2000 posts, can someone please tell me if the Amazon 4K stick delivers full DolbyVision/HDR at UHD resolution and up to Dolby Atmos (when available) audio for Disney+, Netflix, and Prime?

The Amazon page selling the thing says it does, but I'd like to hear from an actual user that it's true. I asked the question on Amazon, and got several uninformed replies (like "The 2nd gen Fire doesn't support UHD" - it does).

So far, from what I've read, only the Apple TV 4K will deliver everything video (UHD plus DV/HDR) and full spectrum audio with Disney+ and other streaming services/apps.

Thanks.
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post #1816 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
[off thread subject topic]

I have the identical issue here on TWO Amazon Fire 2nd gen boxes. The Disney+ app won't do any better than 1080p with 2 channel PCM on either one, where the identical setup will deliver UHD and DD+ from Netflix and Prime. I think it's the Disney+ app that's borked.

On my LG OLED, the Disney+ app delivers UHD and DV, but also 2 channel PCM audio.

On my bedroom Sony 900e with the Disney+ app, I get UHD with HDR10, and DD+ audio over ARC to a Marantz 1608, just as I do with Netflix.

[on thread subject topic]

I just found this group, and without reading almost 2000 posts, can someone please tell me if the Amazon 4K stick delivers full DolbyVision/HDR at UHD resolution and up to Dolby Atmos (when available) audio for Disney+, Netflix, and Prime?

The Amazon page selling the thing says it does, but I'd like to hear from an actual user that it's true. I asked the question on Amazon, and got several uninformed replies (like "The 2nd gen Fire doesn't support UHD" - it does).

So far, from what I've read, only the Apple TV 4K will deliver everything video (UHD plus DV/HDR) and full spectrum audio with Disney+ and other streaming services/apps.

Thanks.
What tv do you have? I have an E6 OLED. If I manually force the Fire TV (in my case the Cube 2) to 2160p, I will get 4K HDR10, but not DV with Disney, because my TV does not support 4K60 DV. If I set resolution to Auto, with frame matching on, everything from Disney is at 1080p including HDR10 and DV. I don't believe Disney works properly with frame matching and Auto resolution if the tv can't support [email protected], and thus will downgrade everything to 1080p. In fact, the Netflix app does the same thing. If I want 4K from the Disney or Netflix app, I have to manually set the Fire Cube to 2160p, but then I only get HDR10. Until those apps sign on to allow frame matching through the Fire device, I won't get 4K DV. Amazon prime video on the other hand, when I set resolution to auto, and frame matching to on, I get 4K DV @24hz.

With that being said, I can not tell the difference in PQ between 1080P DV via the Disney and Netflix apps on the Fire Cube, and the 4K DV stream via the tv's internal apps. They both look exactly the same.
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I have the 4k Firestick and get 4k Dolby Vision with Disney+, but so far only Dolby Digital+ (no Atmos). With Netflix I get 4k Dolby Vision, but only 5.1 audio (again no Atmos). With Amazon video, I can get definitely get Atmos but not sure on Vision (I haven't gone looking for it). I know the device is capable of putting out both, as a previous side load of the Vudu app used to get me both and I can get both with the Movies Anywhere app.

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post #1818 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
What tv do you have? I have an E6 OLED. If I manually force the Fire TV (in my case the Cube 2) to 2160p, I will get 4K HDR10, but not DV with Disney, because my TV does not support 4K60 DV. If I set resolution to Auto, with frame matching on, everything from Disney is at 1080p including HDR10 and DV. I don't believe Disney works properly with frame matching and Auto resolution if the tv can't support [email protected], and thus will downgrade everything to 1080p. In fact, the Netflix app does the same thing. If I want 4K from the Disney or Netflix app, I have to manually set the Fire Cube to 2160p, but then I only get HDR10. Until those apps sign on to allow frame matching through the Fire device, I won't get 4K DV. Amazon prime video on the other hand, when I set resolution to auto, and frame matching to on, I get 4K DV @24hz.

With that being said, I can not tell the difference in PQ between DV 1080P DV via the Disney app on the Fire Cube, and the 4K DV stream via the tv's internal app. They both look exactly the same.
I have the E6 as well. Your Fire Cube 2 is a later device than my 2nd gen FireTV (which is that 4" x 4" x 0.5" sealed box).

I don't have any of those options available. It's all done automagically, for good or bad.

But I do get UHD and DD+ on Netflix and Prime out of the two I have, where Disney+ is 1080p only, and the audio from Disney+ is 2 channel PCM only.


Also, when I launch Disney+ from the E6 app, I do get UHD with DV, but still get 2 channel PCM audio over ARC and optical.
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post #1819 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by doshortell View Post
I have the 4k Firestick and get 4k Dolby Vision with Disney+, but so far only Dolby Digital+ (no Atmos). With Netflix I get 4k Dolby Vision, but only 5.1 audio (again no Atmos). With Amazon video, I can get definitely get Atmos but not sure on Vision (I haven't gone looking for it). I know the device is capable of putting out both, as a previous side load of the Vudu app used to get me both and I can get both with the Movies Anywhere app.

Thanks. That's very helpful. It's definitely a big step up from my current situation, and worth the money to try it.
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post #1820 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I saw the same results with my FireTV 4K sticks and Disney+. Dolby Vision with 5.1 DD+.

Right now the best devices I have for Disney+ playback seem to be my Rokus and Apple TVs. Since I can get Atmos from both of them. And HDR10 from the Rokus and Dolby Vision from the ATV 4Ks.

I hope they enable Atmos from the FireTv stick. Because I would prefer to use that over the ATV 4K. That way I could get DV and Atmos.
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post #1821 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 02:09 PM
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I saw the same results with my FireTV 4K sticks and Disney+. Dolby Vision with 5.1 DD+.

Right now the best devices I have for Disney+ playback seem to be my Rokus and Apple TVs. Since I can get Atmos from both of them. And HDR10 from the Rokus and Dolby Vision from the ATV 4Ks.

I hope they enable Atmos from the FireTv stick. Because I would prefer to use that over the ATV 4K. That way I could get DV and Atmos.

Thanks.


Don't understand why you prefer the stick since AppleTV 4K seems to support just about everything, both audio and video according to the Apple site.



I'm trying to make up my mind whether to spend 3x the amount for the AppleTV or just buy the 4K Stick...
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post #1822 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 02:15 PM
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@DougDingle I also have a 2016 LG (c6). Firestick 4k (and I'm guessing 4k cube base on @wxman above) Frame matching is broken for all apps accept Prime Video. If you set to auto resolution with frame match On; Jack Ryan S1 with play in Dolby Vision at the correct framerate and resolution. Everything else within the Prime App will also be okay. All other apps (youtube, netflix...) will be at 1080p because the firestick tries to send the output at 2160p60 and our series LG's can't handle it for Dolby Vision (only 2160p30 or lower). I will aggree with wxman that the 1080p DV looks good, but it irks me because I know it "should" be in 4k.

One workaround is to force the Firestick 4k resolution to 2160p24 and then it will work for Netflix/youtube (haven't test Disney+). Problem with this is the menu is a stuttering mess and forget watching sports lol. Plus I got terrible lipsync with my older receiver.

Seems like each of the current streaming devices have it's pluses and minuses, but I find the ATV4K, as much as it pains me to say as a android guy, to be the best all around at the moment.
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post #1823 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 03:16 PM
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Thanks.


Don't understand why you prefer the stick since AppleTV 4K seems to support just about everything, both audio and video according to the Apple site.



I'm trying to make up my mind whether to spend 3x the amount for the AppleTV or just buy the 4K Stick...


I have had both. I personally ended up selling the Apple TV 4K in favor of the Fire Stick 4K. They are pretty similar. Big differences would be:

Apple TV
-No 4K/HDR YouTube (1080P Only)
-Swipe Remote
-PCM Audio (A lot of TV's only Passthrough 2.1 PCM, so you want to connect to a receiver)
-Atmos with any app that supports it
-Dolby Vision on any app that supports it
-Frame rate matching on a lot of apps (not all)

Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K
-No Vudu
-Clicker Remote
-HDR10+ with Amazon Prime
-Dolby Vision on any app that supports it (except Apple TV+, that’s only in HDR at the moment).
-Atmos only with Amazon Prime, Movies Anywhere
-Frame rate matching on Amazon Prime only

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask anymore questions you have.


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post #1824 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
Thanks.


Don't understand why you prefer the stick since AppleTV 4K seems to support just about everything, both audio and video according to the Apple site.



I'm trying to make up my mind whether to spend 3x the amount for the AppleTV or just buy the 4K Stick...
The ATV 4K is the only device I sometimes have issues with the AV sync. And that is with Dolby Vision content. With HDR10 it's fine. Plus I also have multiple devices and try to use them fairly regularly. So I find I prefer the Roku, Shield TV,X800, or FireTV 4K sticks over the ATV 4K overall for streaming content. For one thing or another. Whether, the UI, transport controls, or some feature while watching etc.
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post #1825 of 2793 Old 11-18-2019, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
Thanks.


Don't understand why you prefer the stick since AppleTV 4K seems to support just about everything, both audio and video according to the Apple site.



I'm trying to make up my mind whether to spend 3x the amount for the AppleTV or just buy the 4K Stick...
You answered your own question, the ATV costs quite a bit more.


And the Fire 4K stick keeps getting better. It's probably 9/10 the device for 1/4 the price.




Though I too am on the hunt for something for our 2nd TV, trying to decide between the new Fire Cube or new Nvidia Shield.
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post #1826 of 2793 Old 11-19-2019, 07:56 PM
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Upscaling everything to 4K

Vizio P75F1 and new 4k Fire Stick. I have video set to Auto up to 4k, match original on, color format auto and dynamic range is adaptive. I have tried every combo I can think of and the stick upscales everything to 4k in all apps. I would prefer that my TV do the upscaling on 1080 and under. Am I missing something or is this normal?
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post #1827 of 2793 Old 11-20-2019, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post
Vizio P75F1 and new 4k Fire Stick. I have video set to Auto up to 4k, match original on, color format auto and dynamic range is adaptive. I have tried every combo I can think of and the stick upscales everything to 4k in all apps. I would prefer that my TV do the upscaling on 1080 and under. Am I missing something or is this normal?
Yup normal, I believe all the streaming devices do this, I know Roku does as well. Everything is upscaled from the streaming device you are using. No idea why but it does.
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post #1828 of 2793 Old 11-20-2019, 08:32 AM
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No atmos sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post
Has anyone on this thread who owns the firetv 4k stick added a second gen fire cube to their system and if so are you receiving atmos in the Netflix app,and Disney plus app?
I am also having issue getting atmos sound. Pioneer elite receiver C-91 which for sure does atmos(thru BD player) but cant get to thru new firestick 4k. Plugged in back of receiver and all cables are 2.2 compliant. Tried Jack ryan but no atmos. Have set to best available audio. I am about done messing with it and ready to send back. Am I missing something? Anything to try that I have not already??

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post #1829 of 2793 Old 11-20-2019, 08:33 AM
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Yup normal, I believe all the streaming devices do this, I know Roku does as well. Everything is upscaled from the streaming device you are using. No idea why but it does.

Wow. I had no idea. On the list of obnoxious unwanted behavior by hardware that knows better than you what's good for you, that tops the list.


My 2nd gen UHD capable Fire TV doesn't do that.



Reminds of when Apple TV 4K first shipped, and made EVERYTHING, including its own menus, into DolbyVision. But that is typicaly obnoxious "You're stupid - we'll tell you what you need!" Apple behavior.


So just to be clear, you're saying the $5 upscaling chip in the 4K stick is used no matter what the stick is seeing?
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post #1830 of 2793 Old 11-20-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DougDingle View Post
Wow. I had no idea. On the list of obnoxious unwanted behavior by hardware that knows better than you what's good for you, that tops the list.


My 2nd gen UHD capable Fire TV doesn't do that.



Reminds of when Apple TV 4K first shipped, and made EVERYTHING, including its own menus, into DolbyVision. But that is typicaly obnoxious "You're stupid - we'll tell you what you need!" Apple behavior.


So just to be clear, you're saying the $5 upscaling chip in the 4K stick is used no matter what the stick is seeing?
I believe so. I mean smarter people than me should chimn in because I believe this is the case.
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