1080p Blu-ray or 4K UHD Streaming: Which is Better - Poll - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Which is better: HD Blu-ray or 4K UHD streaming
4K UHD Streaming is better than HD Blu-ray 140 30.84%
HD Blu-ray is better than 4K UHD Streaming 217 47.80%
The two are about the same, overall 46 10.13%
Who cares, I refuse to stream movies 34 7.49%
Who cares, I refuse to buy any more discs 17 3.74%
Voters: 454. You may not vote on this poll

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post #121 of 158 Old 11-29-2018, 02:24 PM
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Has anyone mentioned the aspect ratio issue with some streaming media? When I watch a movie, I don't want to have to search the web in hopes the someone has posted whether or not the streaming service carries the correct format. Much less of an issue on Blu-Rays, and even if it is, easier to look up.
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post #122 of 158 Old 11-29-2018, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gan7114 View Post
Who knows, maybe we’ll see 8K “UHD Cartidges” and we’ll be sliding them in toasters like the 80s and 90s. 🙂
Hey, I really think that will happen. A spinning platter introduces a lot of potential degradation that must be overcome. Oversampling and resonance damping designs help but a plug and play solid state device removes all of those issues. Oppo chose to not tackle that next round of development.

5G promises to greatly upset the current structure of fixed point internet delivery. With 300 meg minimum a 4K streamer with a modest buffer to negate jitter etc.. can be identical in performance to our hypothetical solid state medium. 8K will be more demanding but the 5G standard runs up to 3 gigs I believe. The standard seems to be morphing as the roll out happens.

So streaming for most folks and solid state medium for the videophiles. Golden Eyes ?(ala Golden Ears of old).

Exciting times.
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post #123 of 158 Old 11-29-2018, 08:03 PM
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UHD Streaming requires high bandwidth internet since I have ADSL modem/router combo and 18Mbts down! in order to have UHD Streaming, you need a fiber optic network! I'll stick with UHD 4k Blu-ray!
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post #124 of 158 Old 11-29-2018, 11:28 PM
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18 Mbps down is not super fast - even a low end cable internet package of 25Mbps is more than adequate for single UHD stream. Most higher end cable internet is 100 Mbps or faster.

Most fiber starts around 100 Mbps and goes up from there.
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post #125 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 05:12 AM
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i have comcrap 25 down and have no issue streaming any 4k stream from vudu or appletv. other people can be on the internet as well..
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post #126 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
Has anyone mentioned the aspect ratio issue with some streaming media? When I watch a movie, I don't want to have to search the web in hopes the someone has posted whether or not the streaming service carries the correct format. Much less of an issue on Blu-Rays, and even if it is, easier to look up.
I don't believe that's come up yet, but you bring up an interesting part of the topic. Thanks for bringing it up! It absolutely drives me BONKERS when I'm watching old shows/movies that they've obviously zoomed in to make content that was originally 4:3 magically fill up a 16:9 HDTV space. I really don't mind black bars, so wish I got to see the entire image. It's just as bad as when they'd lop off the sides of a movie so people wouldn't have letterbox on VHS/DVD movies. I hated that in the 90s. I absolutely loathe that today. Inexcusable in the year 2018. At least many DVDs would allow you to select an option or flip the disc over to choose your preferred aspect ratio!
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post #127 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer26 View Post
UHD Streaming requires high bandwidth internet since I have ADSL modem/router combo and 18Mbts down! in order to have UHD Streaming, you need a fiber optic network! I'll stick with UHD 4k Blu-ray!
You're not close enough to the VRAD/node. People who are closer to the VRAD/node can get 100mbps on VDSL on AT&T and 115mbps on Frontier. Most cable systems are gigabit now, so no, you don't need fiber.
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post #128 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 07:43 AM
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I stopped buying physical versions of media (games, movies/tv, books) probably around 2013. I've sold/given away all of them at this point.

I'm sure UHD Blu-ray is better, but I realized that while video streaming does not look as good as the disc, by buying discs I was locking my content down to a large box plugged into my TV. Whereas every movie/tv show I have bought on Amazon or Google Play works on all of my devices, my phone, tablet, laptop, monitor, and TV. The discs only work on my Xbox One X at this point, and the only reason I have a disc drive in that thing is because I have to. If you never watch Blu-rays, I also noticed that you stop noticing that quality difference and just enjoy the content.

Recently, I had quite a few Google Play movies upgraded to UHD for free. However, I don't buy movies or TV shows anymore, since it seems like an expensive and risky way to consume content (risky in the sense that owning anything digitally locks you into a provider). Instead, I rotate streaming services for TV shows or rent digital movies I haven't seen in the theater (which is a low number because I see a $5 Tuesday movie almost every week). You can consume basically anything you want relatively inexpensively by doing these things, without locking money up in media that in the future might not work on your preferred device or might be an inferior version compared to what else is available.
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post #129 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 08:31 AM
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The biggest benefit by far of UHD disc vs streaming is the use of data. If I stream a lot of 4K, I'm going to hit my data limit and increase my internet bill.
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post #130 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 12:49 PM
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Streaming doesn't match the quality of movies compressed to a disc. It's practically impossible. Macroblocking, compression artifacts and noise over the picture and definitely in dark scenes. There's an overall less tighter and less detailed image compared to a pristine artifact free higher bitrate bluray disc.

That's not to say streaming doesn't look good. Movies and TV shows from Netflix and Amazon can look amazing. They just don't match that complete quality that disc provides. Streaming is a convenience, never a replacement for movie watching.
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post #131 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledgehamma View Post
That’s not accurate about iTunes and HD. iTunes pretty much is the worst when it comes to HD and nowhere near close to 15mbit. Amazon on the other hand is the best for HD and has a Bitrate of 15mbit.
Can’t say anything about UHD content, though.
I can second the fact that Amazon is the best I have seen of HD streaming by a noticeable amount.
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post #132 of 158 Old 11-30-2018, 04:15 PM
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I have close to 900 blu rays, with 268 of them UHD 4K disks, which is not part of the poll, but is generating my discussion. I usually keep somewhere between 20 and 30 movies I have not yet watched. I not only enjoy watching them, but I enjoy perusing my displayed disks, which is usually done when picking something to watch. Like many others, all of my physical media is displayed at the rear of my home theater room. I also routinely watch content from Amazon, Roku, Netflix, and maintain digital libraries with Vudu, Movies Anywhere, Amazon, Google, and FandangoNow. IMO Dolby Atmos, both from disks and streaming, has revitalized my interest in watching video and listening to the audio that goes with it. I love it when friends come over and walk my back wall looking at the available movies and deciding which one we are about to watch. My home theater equipment is far from top of the line, but I am proud of it, and enjoy showing it off to others. Hands down I prefer UHD 4K streaming to Blu Ray, but there are a lot of variables that must be met for that to happen. First, you have to have competent equipment that is calibrated so that it plays correctly. Second, (and probably first), you must have an adequate internet signal, if you are trying to stream. The last thing you want is buffering or drop outs in the middle of the movie. Your group won't hang around very long with a bad signal. If your ISP has a history of intermittent service, that in itself will turn you away from streaming. That alone is probably the biggest reason why I have hung onto my physical media as long as I have, and will continue to until something comes along better. Here's an example....recently the town I live in had a town wide weather related power outage that lasted 9 hours....no internet. On hour 3 we were watching a UHD 4K movie, as our generator was running the refrigerator, the LR TV and 4K DVD player. Streaming was not possible that day because my ISP was down as well. They actually were down for an additional 3 hours after our power came back on. One of my all time favorite movies never issued a 4K disk, Edge of Tomorrow. Did I purchase that movie from a digital provider? Yes I did, but it is the exception instead of the rule in my house. At Christmas last year, I bought the 4K Christopher Nolan collection, which did not include digital copies. Over the next 3 or 4 months, I purchased 4K digital copies to those same movies to keep my digital catalog as current as possible. Because my ISP is not the most reliable, and I own the house I am in, I don't have the option of moving to a location where better options are available. That alone is the deal breaker for me as it relates to streaming. In my opinion, 4K streaming prevails against blu rays, as long as a good signal is maintained throughout the streaming. Without a good signal, streaming doesn't work. (Sorry for being a bit off topic).

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post #133 of 158 Old 12-01-2018, 01:54 PM
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I had to vote Blu-ray I know some things on Netflix have lossless audio but almost everything on Blu-ray has lossless, and for me lossless audio is half of the experience at least.
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post #134 of 158 Old 12-02-2018, 05:11 AM
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Streaming is convenient but physical media all day. I like the option of owning a physical copy. If those streaming services ever go down you guys will be running back to discs.

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post #135 of 158 Old 12-02-2018, 05:30 AM
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I actually voted that they are about equal.

I've recently watched a lot of 4K Dolby Vision shows on Netflix (House of Cards, Lost in Space, Marco Polo, Fight World, Frontier, Black Sails, Altered Carbon, The Punisher and many more) as well as Amazon Prime 4K/HDR (Jack Ryan, The Grand Tour, Bosch). I honestly think that the shows from Netflix look better than ≈ 90% of the blu-ray movies I own! The only blu-ray disks that I think can even match (let alone surpass) the best looking 4K-DV Netflix shows are the likes of Transformers 5, Interstellar, Pixar movies, The Dark Knight Rises, Black Panther etc.

I sit around 1.7 metres from a 55" OLED.

Amazon's 4K/DV is a little bit worse than Netflix's, but it is still comparable to a very good blu-ray disk.


Youtube's 4K is also amazing, if you watch channels like MKBHD(films in perfectly studio lighting with a RED 8K camera), Dave2D, LinusTechTips, etc they all look absolutely phenomenal as you can see every little detail, dirt, grain, zit, skin pore etc in their face and not a single grain/pixel/noise in sight. Sitting 1.7m from a 1080p blu-ray and I can see grain/fuzziness in probably 95% of movies. This isn't visible from 2 metres, but at 1.7m you can see it. Netflix, Youtube & Amazon 4K - Perfect even if I sat 1.5m away!

However the BEST picture quality I have ever seen is from 4k/HDR Blu-ray movies like Dunkirk and is a level above what you find in streaming.


1. 4K/HDR Blu-ray
2. Netflix 4K Dolby Vision
3. Youtube 4K
4. 1080p SDR Blu-ray
5. Amazon Prime 4K/DV
6. Netflix/Amazon 4K SDR
7. Broadcast 1080i
8. Netflix/Amazon 1080p
9. Broadcast 720p
10. Amazon movies (1080p?)
11. Youtube 1080p
12. Netflix movies (720p? 1080p? its worse than Amazon)
13. DVD 480p
14. HBO Nordic, local streaming services like Viaplay, TV2 Sumo "HD Stream"
15. Youtube / Netflix "720p"
16. Standard broadcast
17. Laser Disc
18. VHS
19. Standard definition (480p) streams
20. 240p streams
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post #136 of 158 Old 12-02-2018, 05:32 AM
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Just to make my post clear... Netflix TV SHOWS have GORGEOUS 4k/DV PQ, while their movies look like compressed 720p garbage. Same applies to Amazon where the shows look better than the movies, but IMO Amazon 4K shows are a bit worse than Netflix 4K shows, while Amazon HD movies are a little better than Netflix HD movies.


I never watch movies on any streaming website as the quality isn't acceptable for me.
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post #137 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
I actually voted that they are about equal.

I've recently watched a lot of 4K Dolby Vision shows on Netflix (House of Cards, Lost in Space, Marco Polo, Fight World, Frontier, Black Sails, Altered Carbon, The Punisher and many more) as well as Amazon Prime 4K/HDR (Jack Ryan, The Grand Tour, Bosch). I honestly think that the shows from Netflix look better than ≈ 90% of the blu-ray movies I own! The only blu-ray disks that I think can even match (let alone surpass) the best looking 4K-DV Netflix shows are the likes of Transformers 5, Interstellar, Pixar movies, The Dark Knight Rises, Black Panther etc.

I sit around 1.7 metres from a 55" OLED.

Amazon's 4K/DV is a little bit worse than Netflix's, but it is still comparable to a very good blu-ray disk.


Youtube's 4K is also amazing, if you watch channels like MKBHD(films in perfectly studio lighting with a RED 8K camera), Dave2D, LinusTechTips, etc they all look absolutely phenomenal as you can see every little detail, dirt, grain, zit, skin pore etc in their face and not a single grain/pixel/noise in sight. Sitting 1.7m from a 1080p blu-ray and I can see grain/fuzziness in probably 95% of movies. This isn't visible from 2 metres, but at 1.7m you can see it. Netflix, Youtube & Amazon 4K - Perfect even if I sat 1.5m away!

However the BEST picture quality I have ever seen is from 4k/HDR Blu-ray movies like Dunkirk and is a level above what you find in streaming.


1. 4K/HDR Blu-ray
2. Netflix 4K Dolby Vision
3. Youtube 4K
4. 1080p SDR Blu-ray
5. Amazon Prime 4K/DV
6. Netflix/Amazon 4K SDR
7. Broadcast 1080i
8. Netflix/Amazon 1080p
9. Broadcast 720p
10. Amazon movies (1080p?)
11. Youtube 1080p
12. Netflix movies (720p? 1080p? its worse than Amazon)
13. DVD 480p
14. HBO Nordic, local streaming services like Viaplay, TV2 Sumo "HD Stream"
15. Youtube / Netflix "720p"
16. Standard broadcast
17. Laser Disc
18. VHS
19. Standard definition (480p) streams
20. 240p streams
You can't compare those shows to any random bluray. You need to have the actual disc version to compare it with. Otherwise you're just comparing a specific shot show to another specific shot bluray. Same with Youtube.
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Last edited by saprano; 12-03-2018 at 05:46 AM.
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post #138 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 05:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post
UHD discs are all over the place, but many tend to fall around 60 Mbps in my experience.
Interesting side note: Billy Lynn (UHD HDR in 60 fps) is only 69 Mbps, but provides two and a half times as many frames, despite having similar bandwidth as many 24 fps UHD Blurays listed here.

The efficiency of picking 60 fps over 24 is astonishing, for the very visible benefits you get. It's like looking through a window, even downscaled to my 1080p projector (running in 10-bit rec 709), I have never seen anything look so life-like. Native HFR would much better than UHD res, for me. And I'm sure 120 fps in HEVC wouldn't be substantially more bitrate than 60 fps, I've read 120 vs 60 HEVC costs only 25% more bandwidth on average.

A 1080p 120 fps HDR HEVC stream could be done in 20-25 mbps and give you a picture that looks way more realistic than anything out there, including 24 fps UHD Blurays. Of course taking a UHD Bluray and doing interpolation on it in the client would give you the best of both worlds, but not many 4K projectors can do interpolation very well yet, or even at all.
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post #139 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Just to make my post clear... Netflix TV SHOWS have GORGEOUS 4k/DV PQ, while their movies look like compressed 720p garbage. Same applies to Amazon where the shows look better than the movies, but IMO Amazon 4K shows are a bit worse than Netflix 4K shows, while Amazon HD movies are a little better than Netflix HD movies.


I never watch movies on any streaming website as the quality isn't acceptable for me.
Movies look great on both. Netflix's original movies especially look really good.

Amazon and Netflix are about equal for PQ, The differences i noticed are that Amazon has a little better compression with blacks. Netflix tends to be filled with noise and other compression problems.

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post #140 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 09:52 AM
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I haven't done enough of a comparison to give an informed opinion but this did remind me of an old feature that avsforum used to run where they would compare the quality of different streaming services and include images from each. I don't know why that feature was discontinued. Maybe because there wasn't any variance in the results. If that's the case, I'd love to see it return now with 4K discs, 4k streaming, Atmos streaming, etc.

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post #141 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lethean View Post
I haven't done enough of a comparison to give an informed opinion but this did remind me of an old feature that avsforum used to run where they would compare the quality of different streaming services and include images from each. I don't know why that feature was discontinued. Maybe because there wasn't any variance in the results. If that's the case, I'd love to see it return now with 4K discs, 4k streaming, Atmos streaming, etc.
While I too would love to see that, it may just be that there are FAR, FAR too many variables to prove one thing or the other. Especially when within one service I can see such a difference that depends upon my internet speed/stability, what device I'm streaming it from AND viewing it on, and even down to the content itself (like how they purposefully downgrade kids shows while making high profile, high budget original content truly shine). Even on my own gear, I've had a tough time truly ascertaining the truth about apples to apples comparisons due to these variables. Thus why I just always assume that my content viewed from local sources will always give at least the most consistent experience, even it's not always the "best" video quality necessarily. And that's about the best conclusion I've been able to deduce thus far. Really frustrating actually.
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post #142 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 11:06 AM
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4K uhd on my Apple TV and lg e8 mops the floor steaming vs Blu-ray movies .
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post #143 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 01:30 PM
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Streaming has come a long, long way. 4K Blade Runner 2049 on Vudu is awesome, as is Planet Earth II on Netflix.

However, the big problem with streaming was just pointed out to me in a big way when Filmstruck closed up shop. Thousands of films, some of which have never even been released on DVD, let alone Blu-ray, are inaccessible now, and the corporate *******s who own the rights to those films don't give a damn about 'niche' markets.

If your taste in entertainment runs beyond Power Rangers and The Emoji Movie, physical media is the only way to go, and in some cases, even that isn't available.
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post #144 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Wolfer View Post
Streaming has come a long, long way. 4K Blade Runner 2049 on Vudu is awesome, as is Planet Earth II on Netflix.

However, the big problem with streaming was just pointed out to me in a big way when Filmstruck closed up shop. Thousands of films, some of which have never even been released on DVD, let alone Blu-ray, are inaccessible now, and the corporate *******s who own the rights to those films don't give a damn about 'niche' markets.

If your taste in entertainment runs beyond Power Rangers and The Emoji Movie, physical media is the only way to go, and in some cases, even that isn't available.
Criterion Round 2...
https://www.criterion.com/channel
I signed up, I think Criterion steering the ship will make a difference.

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post #145 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 04:58 PM
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Streaming = Rental, or if you prefer "Temporary License To View" in the future when people ask "What's a Red Box" this will be very evident. If you want to own something a copy you can download make become the new physical media along with discs.

"Espresso is like tequila, when in doubt apply more shots."
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post #146 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Movies look great on both. Netflix's original movies especially look really good.

Amazon and Netflix are about equal for PQ, The differences i noticed are that Amazon has a little better compression with blacks. Netflix tends to be filled with noise and other compression problems.
Movies look awful on Netflix. Haven't really watched any Netflix original movies other than the one with Will Smith being a cop. Bright or whatever it is called. That was 4K/Dolby Vision, the others are compressed 1080p, which is no where near good enough for me.

I sit uncomfortably close I guess, since nowadays blu ray doesn't really cut it either, which leaves me with 4K/HDR blu-ray
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post #147 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 06:05 PM
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Criterion Round 2...
https://www.criterion.com/channel
I signed up, I think Criterion steering the ship will make a difference.
Yeah, I signed up for that too, and I'm looking forward to it.

But the point I wanted to make is the largely ephemeral nature of streaming. Titles come and go from all the services. Movies Anywhere is good insurance against a service like Vudu closing up, but it's really no substitute for having the disc in hand, which they will have to pry from my cold dead fingers.

Plus, the sound is so much better. And again, I am really impressed with the 4K streaming on Vudu, Netflix and YouTube. It's all good, except when you can only watch mainstream superhero movies.
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post #148 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sledgehamma View Post
So in your mind DV (no matter the Bitrate) trumps all?
I certainly don’t agree with that as this completely leaves out that not all movies are created equal. It depends how DV was done on that movie, how it was mastered and certainly your equipment plays an important role as well.
So simply stated that DV is superior to HDR10 is way too simplified in my opinion.

That said, this discussions seems to be focused on 4K streaming vs 4K discs.
What many people forget is that not every 4K movie on streaming platform has HDR or BT.2020 for example.
Just an example: Wall Street is not available on 4K UHD BD but is available in 4K SDR (not sure about the color space) on iTunes. So what would you guys then prefer? In case it’s really BT.709 (which i suspect) it’s just more pixels with a lower Bitrate than the BD and inferior audio quality.
While the thread subject was supposed to be about how 4K UHD streaming compares to Bluray Disc 1080p content.

On an SDR versus SDR basis, it's possible to have a rational debate on the question, but once we throw HDR UHD streaming versus SDR HD disc content into the debate, there are too many variables for a rational discussion.

For what it's worth, here's my take:

1/ UHD streaming of SDR content is pretty much indistinguishable from the SDR HD Bluray (assuming sufficient bandwidth).

2/ Depending on the specific piece of content and how well it was mastered, HDR can look significantly better than SDR.

So UHD streaming pretty much always looks as good or better than SD HD Bluray content - at worst, it looks equivalent (again, assuming sufficient bandwidth).

Now, when audio is thrown into the mix, that's a whole other ball of wax...
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post #149 of 158 Old 12-03-2018, 10:12 PM
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1/ UHD streaming of SDR content is pretty much indistinguishable from the SDR HD Bluray (assuming sufficient bandwidth).
Not with the right content. With content where the extra resolution is apparent, the extra resolution really, really shines and makes it far superior to 1080p Blu-Ray.

Quote:
2/ Depending on the specific piece of content and how well it was mastered, HDR can look significantly better than SDR.
Maybe. I haven't been too impressed by HDR. 4k resolution is a "WOW!" experience, HDR adds a little to it in certain situations (like The Revenant), but it's not nearly as impactful as the extra resolution.

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Now, when audio is thrown into the mix, that's a whole other ball of wax...
Definitely. Having DTS-HD MA is awesome.
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post #150 of 158 Old 12-05-2018, 10:36 PM
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I am finding the comments very interesting and yet can't find the validity of such polls other than if it were to have been written - In your personal experience how would you rate the following or prefer etc. There are my thoughts as I read all of the comments and I am more than happy if someone finds error in my thinking and explains why I am incorrect. For now, I think my thoughts are in order and on target -



First, Blu Ray like DVD (commercial movies etc.) all come in various qualities. We can see from Ralph Potts and company reviews that show among Blu Ray that the quality of video and sound may vary.


Second, given there is no perfect Blu Ray but some very very good quality ones, those along with a mediocre quality Blu Ray title might be used in comparing to streamed "4k."


Third, as most point out, not everyone has the same speed for inbound data and thus this can impact the quality of the streamed content. From a hardware standpoint, you have the modem, router and either a hardware player or software going to a TV or the TV itself handles the stream directly. ALL of these items can add to the mix of the quality of playback.



Ideally, there may be as little as two approaches and possibly more to this comparison but the data is only tells us about what is compared. Consider -


4k movie streamed to a typical cable modem/router and goes to an ATV and then to a decent 4k TV. Then compare that with the same but instead a Roku, then an Amazon streamer and perhaps an HTPC and Nvidia Shield. The results may all be very different. As well, it certainly is possible that the back end decides that your modem or beyond can not handle top speed so streaming provider limits the speed incorrectly.


Incidentally, on paper, a 2k master upscaled properly should look better than one downscaled to 1080. This is measurable.



HVEC vs old means of compression - no reminder is really needed that this newer compression does not compress as much in real use as what is said can be done in theory. The compression used for 4k streaming is somewhat aggressive which is an indicator that there is some possibly noticeable degradation.
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