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post #1 of 38 Old 03-17-2019, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Tivos and difficulty streaming from one to another

I posted this elsewhere (a week ago) and didn't get any response. I was hoping someone could provide some feedback.

My Tivo Premiere is hard wired to my router, but my Tivo Roamio is wireless. I use an Asus RT-AC3100 router.

Given the fact that I've got a high end router along with 100/100Mbps fiber optic internet, does anyone have any insight into the fact that these two Tivos cannot always connect to each other for playing recorded programs? Sometimes it works fine, and other times, the Tivos cannot see each other at all, or I will receive an error message that I don't have enough bandwidth.

I've never had a bit of problem from any other wireless devices in the house. And again, I have fiber optic internet with 100/100Mbps; and I am the only one in the house.
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post #2 of 38 Old 03-17-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I posted this elsewhere (a week ago) and didn't get any response. I was hoping someone could provide some feedback.

My Tivo Premiere is hard wired to my router, but my Tivo Roamio is wireless. I use an Asus RT-AC3100 router.

Given the fact that I've got a high end router along with 100/100Mbps fiber optic internet, does anyone have any insight into the fact that these two Tivos cannot always connect to each other for playing recorded programs? Sometimes it works fine, and other times, the Tivos cannot see each other at all, or I will receive an error message that I don't have enough bandwidth.

I've never had a bit of problem from any other wireless devices in the house. And again, I have fiber optic internet with 100/100Mbps; and I am the only one in the house.
Try posting here...
https://www.tivocommunity.com owners forum.

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post #3 of 38 Old 03-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
but my Tivo Roamio is wireless.
For best performance, TiVo's should be wired. If you can't run an ethernet cable, try Powerline Adapters or Moca. I use both for my units and very rarely have a connection issue where one TiVo can't see the other.
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post #4 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I posted this elsewhere (a week ago) and didn't get any response.
Where? (Would prefer to review previous feedback and any supplemental info provided therein.)

Quote:
Given the fact that I've got a high end router along with 100/100Mbps fiber optic internet, does anyone have any insight into the fact that these two Tivos cannot always connect to each other for playing recorded programs? ... And again, I have fiber optic internet with 100/100Mbps; and I am the only one in the house.
Your Internet connection rate (beyond an always-on connection to facilitate communication with the mothership) has no bearing on streaming reliability between your TiVo devices, what's called TiVo Multi-Room Streaming (or MRS).

Quote:
My Tivo Premiere is hard wired to my router, but my Tivo Roamio is wireless. I use an Asus RT-AC3100 router. ... does anyone have any insight into the fact that these two Tivos cannot always connect to each other for playing recorded programs? Sometimes it works fine, and other times, the Tivos cannot see each other at all, or I will receive an error message that I don't have enough bandwidth.
Piggybacking on @Kelson 's insight, a wired connection is not just preferred for all boxes part of a TiVo whole home setup, but a wired connection is *officially* required to support MRS (streaming), per TiVo's MRS How-To >here<.

All TiVo devices must connect to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection.
That said, many people have had success with DIY setups using wireless or Powerline, but one roadblock, in your case, might be the specific Roamio model in-use. The 4-tuner Roamio model's built-in wireless has been seen to be insufficient to support MRS/streaming. The DIY crowd would try a wireless bridge at the Roamio location, connecting the Roamio to the bridge via Ethernet, replacing the Roamio's deficient wireless connection with that of the wireless bridge.

Of course, if a MoCA/coax connection were possible, that would be my recommendation.
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post #5 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Where? (Would prefer to review previous feedback and any supplemental info provided therein.)


Your Internet connection rate (beyond an always-on connection to facilitate communication with the mothership) has no bearing on streaming reliability between your TiVo devices, what's called TiVo Multi-Room Streaming (or MRS).


Piggybacking on @Kelson 's insight, a wired connection is not just preferred for all boxes part of a TiVo whole home setup, but a wired connection is *officially* required to support MRS (streaming), per TiVo's MRS How-To >here<.

All TiVo devices must connect to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection.
That said, many people have had success with DIY setups using wireless or Powerline, but one roadblock, in your case, might be the specific Roamio model in-use. The 4-tuner Roamio model's built-in wireless has been seen to be insufficient to support MRS/streaming. The DIY crowd would try a wireless bridge at the Roamio location, connecting the Roamio to the bridge via Ethernet, replacing the Roamio's deficient wireless connection with that of the wireless bridge.

Of course, if a MoCA/coax connection were possible, that would be my recommendation.
I appreciate the feedback here.

Since my last post, I have realized that there appears to be no viable alternative to hard wiring the Tivos if I want to stream recordings from one Tivo box to another. My home internet is fiber optic so I don't use the coax lines within my home for internet. So as far as I understand Moca, that means that type of setup won't work. And network wi-fi extenders seems like a bit of a crap shoot. And it wouldn't work anyways (as far as I understand those devices) unless I plugged the extender directly from my router to a wall outlet. And I avoid doing that for all my electronics after having a laptop 'fried' by lightening several years ago. All of my electronics are on surge protectors in the home.

All that being said, I think I am going to hard wire the Tivo Roamio to my router this weekend. The Roamio is just on the other side of the wall (in another room) from where my router is placed. So that project appears doable. And since one of my Premieres is already hard wired, at least I'll have two Tivos hard wired. It just leaves the 3rd Tivo (a Premiere) in my master bedroom that will have to remain wireless. At least for the time being. Running ethernet cable to that room would be a far bigger task.

Just curious, while I have read the link about MRS as it relates to Tivos, does anyone here have any thoughts on why Tivos are not designed with better wireless capabilities for streaming? While I realize it's a different product all together, my other devices (such as my Roku) doesn't have a bit of problem streaming entire movies (wireless) with no buffering or interruptions whatsoever.
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post #6 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I appreciate the feedback here.

Since my last post, I have realized that there appears to be no viable alternative to hard wiring the Tivos if I want to stream recordings from one Tivo box to another. My home internet is fiber optic so I don't use the coax lines within my home for internet. So as far as I understand Moca, that means that type of setup won't work. And network wi-fi extenders seems like a bit of a crap shoot. And it wouldn't work anyways (as far as I understand those devices) unless I plugged the extender directly from my router to a wall outlet. And I avoid doing that for all my electronics after having a laptop 'fried' by lightening several years ago. All of my electronics are on surge protectors in the home.

All that being said, I think I am going to hard wire the Tivo Roamio to my router this weekend. The Roamio is just on the other side of the wall (in another room) from where my router is placed. So that project appears doable. And since one of my Premieres is already hard wired, at least I'll have two Tivos hard wired. It just leaves the 3rd Tivo (a Premiere) in my master bedroom that will have to remain wireless. At least for the time being. Running ethernet cable to that room would be a far bigger task.

Just curious, while I have read the link about MRS as it relates to Tivos, does anyone here have any thoughts on why Tivos are not designed with better wireless capabilities for streaming? While I realize it's a different product all together, my other devices (such as my Roku) doesn't have a bit of problem streaming entire movies (wireless) with no buffering or interruptions whatsoever.
I wanted to add, while I'm not going to replace my Tivos due to the investment I've already got in them, it does beg the question of whether or not other purchased DVRs (for OTA) offer better/easier wireless solutions?
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post #7 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quick reply on this one point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
My home internet is fiber optic so I don't use the coax lines within my home for internet. So as far as I understand Moca, that means that type of setup won't work.
How your Internet connection is made is a separate issue from how you implement your home network. MoCA can be used with fiber, DSL, wireless broadband and 4G hotspot Internet connections, so long as you have coax lines available -- though best if the coax lines are only carrying OTA or cable signals. Would need to know more about your setup, router location and available coax lines and what signals are present on the coax to assess how MoCA might be employed, if at all.

Off to read the rest of your post.

edit: One more quick update, IRT:
Quote:
And network wi-fi extenders seems like a bit of a crap shoot. And it wouldn't work anyways (as far as I understand those devices) unless I plugged the extender directly from my router to a wall outlet.
You wouldn't want to use a wireless extender, or at least not one configured in "extender" mode. You'd use a wireless bridge/adapter that would act simply as a wireless client and supply the TiVo box with a wired Ethernet connection. Some recommended examples:

  • Linksys RE6500
  • Linksys WUMC710
  • D-Link DAP-1650
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post #8 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 06:52 PM
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You need at least three MoCa devices connected to your home's cable network to make this work. One would be connected to the cable and to the ethernet port on your wireless router, then the other two would be connected to cable connections near your tivos and to the ethernet port on your tivos.
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post #9 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 07:05 PM
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You have a Roamio and 2 Premieres, but what are the specific model numbers ... or the number of tuners in each DVR, if you can't get to the model number info. (This will tell us if any of your DVRs have built-in MoCA bridging.)

  • Roamio?
  • Ethernet-connected Premiere?
  • Master Bedroom Premiere?
Also, are you tuning cable TV or OTA antenna?

As a separate issue, Weaknees currently has the TiVo Mini v2 on sale for $100. (link) And TiVo is having a "March Mania" sale, including decent prices for All-In renewed Roamio OTA and BOLTs. (link)

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post #10 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
Just curious, while I have read the link about MRS as it relates to Tivos, does anyone here have any thoughts on why Tivos are not designed with better wireless capabilities for streaming? While I realize it's a different product all together, my other devices (such as my Roku) doesn't have a bit of problem streaming entire movies (wireless) with no buffering or interruptions whatsoever.
Sure, TiVo doesn't have the luxury of controlling the compression of the video broadcast, so their solution has to accommodate multiple streams of MPEG2 video (what's been used for both cable and OTA broadcasting), up to 20 Mbps per stream, and most consumer Wi-Fi setups just aren't up to the task, or at least haven't been.

Netflix and other streaming services that use H.264 compression use 5 Mbps or less for full HD video quality.
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post #11 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 07:23 PM
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You can, sorta

I have two Tivos. The first is a Roamio OTA, and the second a Premiere with the N Wifi ethernet dongle. They are both within 15 feet of the router, an Apple Extreme with AC, one way though a floor.

I live a charmed life with wifi, I'm not near any other signals, I've optimized my channels.

On N level wifi, I can stream wirelessly between units most of the time. The Roamio will always stream HD to the Premiere with no issues. In the opposite direction, the Premiere will sometimes fail, but never on SD, only with HD content-still, fairly stable and the last few times, 100%

When I upgraded the router to the last Apple Extreme with AC, it actually worked reliably. The Tivos hook up N mode 5 ghz, at 300 mps for the Roamio and 270 mbs for the Premiere, both top speed settings-the difference has to do with Guard Intervals and the fact the Roamio has shorter intervals so can push more data....still at least 100% on both units.

I wasn't running Moca, or 5e cables around my 1920's cranky house.....but the AC level router moves the HD video with no problems. I've been told by others that an ethernet to an AC link will work.
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post #12 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I wanted to add, while I'm not going to replace my Tivos due to the investment I've already got in them, it does beg the question of whether or not other purchased DVRs (for OTA) offer better/easier wireless solutions?
Ah, you're doing OTA ... so you must have 2-tuner Premieres and a 4-tuner Roamio ... none of which have built-in MoCA functionality, so you'd have the added expense of adding MoCA adapters (e.g.) for any MoCA implementation.
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post #13 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Ah, you're doing OTA ... so you must have 2-tuner Premieres and a 4-tuner Roamio ... none of which have built-in MoCA functionality, so you'd have the added expense of adding MoCA adapters (e.g.) for any MoCA implementation.
You got it. I purchased two Tivo Premieres back in 2012 (these models came with 2 tuners built into each one of them). These models allow for cable and/or OTA, but I am currently using OTA only. Then a year ago, I bought a Tivo Roamio for OTA only, and it has 4 tuners built in.

As for my home set-up, this 1 1/2 year old home was completely wired for cable tv/internet when it was built back in 2017. But as the builder was constructing the home, he allowed me and my step father to come in and run separate dedicated coax lines from each room up to my attic (before the drywall was installed) because I already knew that I wanted an antenna in the attic and that I was going to use OTA only for TV. And I wanted to do it with dedicated coax lines (from each room to the attic) versus running a single wire down from the attic out to the cable box outside the home.

Separately, I ran a single cat 6 line from my L/R to my office. That enabled two rooms to be hard wired for any type of internet service. I wished I had been able to run more cat wire in the home before the drywall was put up - but the clock was ticking with the drywall going up the very next day (back when the home was being built in 2017). So that's my setup. And I've got a Tivo Premiere hard wired from the L/R cat 6 installed jack that runs directly to my front spare bedroom/office where the router is located and where to fiber comes out of my crawl space into the room.

So basically, all the coax cables that came with the house for cable tv and internet are setting there idle in each room and not in service at this time. My dedicated/separate coax lines (that I installed) run from each room directly (individually) up to the attic for my TV antenna. Separately, my internet is with a local co-op that runs fiber throughout my neighborhood with the wiring coming into my office. They came in (after the home was completed) and ran a line through my crawl space and up into my office. That fiber line comes directly into the room and into my AC3100 Asus router. So that's a summary of my setup here at the house. So here you have it....a long winded explanation of my home setup.

This weekend, I plan to go ahead and drill through from the office (where the router is) to my front bedroom (where the Tivo Roamio is). (the front bedroom where the Tivo Roamio is, is located just on the other side of the wall from my office - where the router is located. So my Roamio will soon be hard wired :-) But that still leaves my other Tivo Premiere (in the Master Bedroom) that will have to remain wireless (for now) until I can figure out some solution to bring it into the Tivo network with the other boxes. And of course, it just uses that dongle (I believe referred to as the N adapter).

Many thanks again here for the feedback on this topic. And I will check back in (again) over the weekend. With the devices that I've got (along with the wiring setup), maybe you guys can advise me on the best solution for the master bedroom Tivo because to run hard wire from my router (in the office) to that bedroom would be far more difficult. Maybe a Moca adaptation can be implemented for the Tivo Premiere in my master bedroom. I am not really up to speed on this whole Moca thing, but it's really good knowledge to have and also find out the cost to determine if it's a viable solution for the remaining Tivo Premiere in the Master Bedroom that will remain wireless using the dongle for now.
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post #14 of 38 Old 03-22-2019, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Sure, TiVo doesn't have the luxury of controlling the compression of the video broadcast, so their solution has to accommodate multiple streams of MPEG2 video (what's been used for both cable and OTA broadcasting), up to 20 Mbps per stream, and most consumer Wi-Fi setups just aren't up to the task, or at least haven't been.

Netflix and other streaming services that use H.264 compression use 5 Mbps or less for full HD video quality.
That makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. And so based on what you said, I would assume that other home solution DVR brands would be confronted with a similar scenario as the Tivos when attempting to stream (wireless) from one box to another.
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post #15 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
That makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. And so based on what you said, I would assume that other home solution DVR brands would be confronted with a similar scenario as the Tivos when attempting to stream (wireless) from one box to another.
Other systems often transcode into friendlier h.264 formats for streaming or they depend on clients to have built-in compatibility.

Like you, I was invested pretty heavily into TiVo. Multiple boxes for 10+ years. But I got tired of making excuses for certain problems (sketchy Onepass for streaming sources as well as limitations in whole-home). So I have for the most part moved off TiVo to alternatives.

Transcoding solutions (like the Recast or Tablo) use a headless system to send to clients like Roku, FireTV, etc.

In my case, Plex DVR (or Emby DVR) combined with an HDHomeRun tuner depends on client capabilities. Roku, for example, doesn't natively support mpeg2 (at least for the model I have) ... while FireTV does. So I use FireTV as my primary client connected to the TV and can sling mpeg2 HD video wirelessly on my network just fine.
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post #16 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Other systems often transcode into friendlier h.264 formats for streaming or they depend on clients to have built-in compatibility.

Like you, I was invested pretty heavily into TiVo. Multiple boxes for 10+ years. But I got tired of making excuses for certain problems (sketchy Onepass for streaming sources as well as limitations in whole-home). So I have for the most part moved off TiVo to alternatives.

Transcoding solutions (like the Recast or Tablo) use a headless system to send to clients like Roku, FireTV, etc.

In my case, Plex DVR (or Emby DVR) combined with an HDHomeRun tuner depends on client capabilities. Roku, for example, doesn't natively support mpeg2 (at least for the model I have) ... while FireTV does. So I use FireTV as my primary client connected to the TV and can sling mpeg2 HD video wirelessly on my network just fine.
Yes, I did invest heavily in Tivo, buying the lifetime service on both Premieres back in late 2011 or early 2012. The Tivo Roamio that I bought almost 1/2 years ago at BB (Black Friday) was considerably less expensive with lifetime on the Roamio OTA included in purchase price.

At this point, it wouldn't make financial sense to change DVRs. But once the new ATSC 3.0 comes out in the US (and becomes more standard with the new TVs with those next generation 4k tuners built into the TV sets - then I will eventually be looking for new DVR box(es) that have the same next generation tuners built into them.

As I understand things now - this new technology is available in South Korea, but it is still in the testing stage here in the US. And of course, we've got no broadcast stations evening broadcasting (yet) in the new ATSC 3.0 standard. But when this happens - maybe a Plex DVR or other may offer better whole home solutions.
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post #17 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick update here - my Tivo Roamio is now hard wired to my router. So two out of three of my Tivos now have solid network connections for streaming between boxes. I will dig deeper into the whole Moca issue later on. Meanwhile, if there are any more thoughts on that (based on my long winded explanation yesterday) of my home network setup, please post. Thanks again for the replies here.
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post #18 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
That makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. And so based on what you said, I would assume that other home solution DVR brands would be confronted with a similar scenario as the Tivos when attempting to stream (wireless) from one box to another.
Yes and no. As @eherberg commented, other solutions using Rokus or other streaming boxes as clients likely depend on transcoding the recorded/stored video before streaming it to a client. The Amazon Recast is one example, and this will also be what compatible TiVo DVRs will be doing when the TiVo app for streaming boxes is released later this year.

There are tradeoffs, though. In the case of the Recast and TiVo DVRs (once the app is released), the number of allowed concurrent streams will be limited by the capabilities of each box's built-in transcoding; and the transcoded video is often lower resolution than the original MPEG2 video.

  • Recast and TiVo BOLTs: 2 streams max
  • Roamio Plus|Pro and TiVo Stream: 4 streams max

NOTE that the above max streams are separate from the limits associated with TiVo Mini streaming. Unfortunately, at least at present, the Recast doesn't allow streaming the native MPEG2 video, even if all boxes are wired. (link)


Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
Just a quick update here - my Tivo Roamio is now hard wired to my router. So two out of three of my Tivos now have solid network connections for streaming between boxes. I will dig deeper into the whole Moca issue later on. Meanwhile, if there are any more thoughts on that (based on my long winded explanation yesterday) of my home network setup, please post.
Re: Wireless... I'd recommend reviewing this earlier comment, since you seem to have, perhaps incorrectly, excluded a wireless bridge as an option:

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
You wouldn't want to use a wireless extender, or at least not one configured in "extender" mode. You'd use a wireless bridge/adapter that would act simply as a wireless client and supply the TiVo box with a wired Ethernet connection. Some recommended examples:

  • Linksys RE6500
  • Linksys WUMC710
  • D-Link DAP-1650


On the MoCA front...

  • The cheapest solution, if you don't happen to have a couple MoCA adapters lying around, would be the WCB3000N ... a combo MoCA wireless extender available for cheap, used, via Amazon. (Some configuration is needed to disable or configure the wireless function, but the cost makes it worth it to many.)

  • And you could likely use a pair of antenna/satellite diplexers (e.g.) to minimize the loss associated with connecting the WCB3000N adapters to your coax lines feeding your DVRs. (more info >here<)

  • Lastly, you'd need a "PoE" MoCA filter installed to prevent the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from your OTA antenna. >See here< for more info.

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post #19 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 02:02 PM
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TL;DR: You should be able to get a hard-wired MoCA/coax connection to the MB Premiere for sub-$40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
So basically, all the coax cables that came with the house for cable tv and internet are setting there idle in each room and not in service at this time.
Heh, this greatly simplifies the MoCA setup, since you can just use your "cable" coax lines for any MoCA connectivity. (No need for splitters/diplexers or a MoCA filter; just need a couple MoCA adapters and a barrel connector.)

The just-posted MoCA suggestions (included below) could be simplified by just direct-connecting two MoCA adapters, using a F-81 barrel connector (e.g.) at the central junction to join their respective coax runs. One MoCA adapter would be installed at the Premiere location, and the other at any location that has available connectivity to your Ethernet LAN. (A plus of the WCB3000N is that it includes 2 Ethernet ports, giving you flexibility in where you install the main Ethernet/MoCA bridging WCB3000N: at the router, or at either currently hard-wired DVR location. The typical setup would have the main bridging MoCA adapter at the router location, but locating the main bridge at either hard-wired DVR location would allow some of the TiVo-to-TiVo traffic to entirely avoid passing through the router. Your call.)

If you wanted to expand your MoCA network beyond just the MoCA connection for the Master Bedroom Premiere, you'd switch from the barrel connector to an appropriately-spec'd splitter.

edit: p.s. To be clear, in case it wasn't obvious, you can have a mix of Ethernet- and MoCA-connected devices in your TiVo setup.

----
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
On the MoCA front...

  • The cheapest solution, if you don't happen to have a couple MoCA adapters lying around, would be the WCB3000N ... a combo MoCA wireless extender available for cheap, used, via Amazon. (Some configuration is needed to disable or configure the wireless function, but the cost makes it worth it to many.)

  • And you could likely use a pair of antenna/satellite diplexers (e.g.) to minimize the loss associated with connecting the WCB3000N adapters to your coax lines feeding your DVRs. (more info >here<)

  • Lastly, you'd need a "PoE" MoCA filter installed to prevent the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from your OTA antenna. >See here< for more info.

Last edited by krkaufman; 03-23-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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post #20 of 38 Old 03-23-2019, 02:18 PM
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Some add'l MoCA background info >here<.

Your TiVo gear will be satisfied with the MoCA 1.1 WCB3000N throughput (your TiVo boxes are FastE/100Mbps, WCB3000N throughput is up to ~150Mbps), but you may want to keep the later MoCA specs in mind if you begin pondering what your coax lines and MoCA can do for improving your overall network performance. (It's my view that it's best to get any traffic for fixed devices off the wireless spectrum, as budget allows, to free-up wireless for those devices that don't have any other option ... not to mention that the MoCA/coax network can be used for optimally locating any needed wireless access points to improve wireless coverage.)

MoCA 1.1 ... up to ~150 Mbps
Standard MoCA 2.0 ... up to 400 Mbps
Bonded MoCA 2.0 ... up to 800 Mbps

See >here< for some available MoCA adapters.


NOTE: MoCA is a peer-to-peer technology, and two MoCA nodes will communicate at the highest spec supported by BOTH nodes. (e.g. a bonded MoCA 2.0 and MoCA 1.1 pair would communicate only at MoCA 1.1)

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post #21 of 38 Old 03-24-2019, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
The just-posted MoCA suggestions (included below) could be simplified by just direct-connecting two MoCA adapters, using a F-81 barrel connector (e.g.) at the central junction to join their respective coax runs. One MoCA adapter would be installed at the Premiere location, and the other at any location that has available connectivity to your Ethernet LAN. (A plus of the WCB3000N is that it includes 2 Ethernet ports, giving you flexibility in where you install the main Ethernet/MoCA bridging WCB3000N: at the router, or at either currently hard-wired DVR location. The typical setup would have the main bridging MoCA adapter at the router location, but locating the main bridge at either hard-wired DVR location would allow some of the TiVo-to-TiVo traffic to entirely avoid passing through the router. Your call.)
For my situation, and from your feedback, it appears two MoCA adapters would be the way to go for a hard wired connection for my master bedroom Tivo the currently remains wireless. And I like what you described about the WCB3000N that includes 2 ethernet ports, giving me more flexibility in where I install the main Ethernet/MoCA bridging WCB3000n (as you said, at the router or one of the other hard wired Tivos).
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post #22 of 38 Old 03-24-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
On the MoCA front...[/B][LIST][*]The cheapest solution, if you don't happen to have a couple MoCA adapters lying around, would be the WCB3000N ... a combo MoCA wireless extender available for cheap, used, via Amazon. (Some configuration is needed to disable or configure the wireless function, but the cost makes it worth it to many.)
You mentioned some configuration is needed with the WCB3000N to "disable or configure the wireless function". Obviously, for my scenario (as using MoCa as discussed here), I would not want (or need) to configure an additional wireless function. So is configuration required to disable the wireless all together in the WCB3000N? And if so, (and if I don't want to mess with that), is there another MoCa adapter that would be more 'plug and play' ready with the currently unused coax lines in my home? I would not want to spend a fortune on a pair of MoCa adapters, but at the same time, I am not counting pennies either. And ease of installation would be important for someone like myself that has never used or set up a MoCa network.
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A reminder, should you go the WCB3000N route...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Some configuration is needed to disable or configure the wireless function


edit: p.s. In case it's not obvious via your browser, the "disable or configure the wireless function" in the above is a clickable link that takes you to the instructions on how to disable wireless on the WCB3000N.

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post #24 of 38 Old 03-24-2019, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
You mentioned some configuration is needed with the WCB3000N to "disable or configure the wireless function". Obviously, for my scenario (as using MoCa as discussed here), I would not want (or need) to configure an additional wireless function. So is configuration required to disable the wireless all together in the WCB3000N?
Yes, thus the "disable" in my caveat. It's truly not a difficult process; I recommend reviewing the linked notes.

Quote:
And if so, (and if I don't want to mess with that), is there another MoCa adapter that would be more 'plug and play' ready with the currently unused coax lines in my home? ... ease of installation would be important for someone like myself that has never used or set up a MoCa network.
Yes, any of the adapters in the list previously linked. If the DIY budget route isn't for you, then I'd suggest looking at:

  • Motorola MM1000
  • FiOS Network Adapter
Both are bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters, and so would also be the best choice were you to want to leverage your coax to improve your overall home network performance.
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post #25 of 38 Old 03-24-2019, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Re: Wireless... I'd recommend reviewing this earlier comment, since you seem to have, perhaps incorrectly, excluded a wireless bridge as an option:
I just decided that since I already had the supplies (in the house) to simply go from the router (in my office), and literally, just on the other side of the wall....that I would go ahead and hard wire my Roamio to the network using cat 6 wiring. But, as I've known all along, it would be MUCH harder to run ethernet to my master bedroom Tivo from the router, and so I've realized that an alternative for that Tivo would be necessary, if I want streaming capabilities on that box.

But on the note of wireless bridges (versus the MoCA adaptors), can you explain something? I now basically understand the concept of how a MoCA network setup would work in my scenario for my master bedroom. And with the Moca adaptors.....along with connecting the two (cable) coax wires (outside at my cable box) with a barrel would basically create a 'loop', enabling all of this to work.

On the other hand, a wireless bridge appears to be another solution all together. If I understand wireless bridges correctly, (in layman's terms), it would basically serve to perform a wireless function that the N adapter (dongle) with the Tivo is not capable of doing efficiently. Correct? So with a wireless bridge, I would basically disconnect my N Adapter dongle from the Master Bedroom Tivo Premiere, and replace it with a wireless bridge whereby I would connect the cat wire from the Premiere into the wireless bridge (sitting next to it). And then the wireless bridge would (if working properly) effectively 'see' and have the capability to (on a wireless basis) 'see' my router and effectively be able to talk to (stream) from my other Tivo devices in the home? Just wanted to confirm I am understanding that correctly.

Of course, this is all a moot point with a wireless bridge (if I go the MoCA route using the unused coax lines in my home), but I just wanted to be sure I understood everything correctly about the different alternatives. I believe you had indicated (earlier) that a wireless bridge is something that a DIY homeowner might choose as an alternative to using the coax wires in their homes for MoCA.

Thanks again for all the feedback.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I believe you had indicated (earlier) that a wireless bridge is something that a DIY homeowner might choose as an alternative to using the coax wires in their homes for MoCA.
I didn't offer it as an alternative where a MoCA/coax connection was reasonably possible, but where an Ethernet or MoCA/coax connection wasn't possible or somehow prohibitively expensive. My view is that fixed devices warrant wired connections where possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
On the other hand, a wireless bridge appears to be another solution all together. If I understand wireless bridges correctly, (in layman's terms), it would basically serve to perform a wireless function that the N adapter (dongle) with the Tivo is not capable of doing efficiently. Correct? So with a wireless bridge, I would basically disconnect my N Adapter dongle from the Master Bedroom Tivo Premiere, and replace it with a wireless bridge whereby I would connect the cat wire from the Premiere into the wireless bridge (sitting next to it). And then the wireless bridge would (if working properly) effectively 'see' and have the capability to (on a wireless basis) 'see' my router and effectively be able to talk to (stream) from my other Tivo devices in the home? Just wanted to confirm I am understanding that correctly.
Simply put... the wireless bridge acts as a dumb wireless client connecting to a wireless base station, and can bridge traffic between the wireless base station (typically a router) and devices connected via the wireless bridge's built-in Ethernet ports.

As you said, the wireless bridge solution is moot given a MoCA solution is easily and cheaply doable for your Master Bedroom.
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post #27 of 38 Old 03-24-2019, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I just decided that since I already had the supplies (in the house) to simply go from the router (in my office), and literally, just on the other side of the wall....that I would go ahead and hard wire my Roamio to the network using cat 6 wiring. But, as I've known all along, it would be MUCH harder to run ethernet to my master bedroom Tivo from the router, and so I've realized that an alternative for that Tivo would be necessary, if I want streaming capabilities on that box.
Before you give up hope, try a pair of powerline adapters. I use them between my family room Roamio (where the router is) and my Roamio OTA in the upstairs bedroom. Works perfectly to stream recordings from the family room TiVo or to stream from Netflix/Prime from the router in the family room.

The peformance of powerline adapters is situational so your performance may not mirror my success. So buy them from Best buy and give them a try -- if they don't work for you return them.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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Before you give up hope...
Huh? As far as I can tell, they're ready to do the simple direct MoCA connection -- and shouldn't be considering any other approach, given the simplicity and superiority of the MoCA solution.

"Quit while we're ahead" is a phrase that comes to mind.
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Huh? As far as I can tell, they're ready to do the simple direct MoCA connection -- and shouldn't be considering any other approach, given the simplicity and superiority of the MoCA solution.

"Quit while we're ahead" is a phrase that comes to mind.
I don't disagree that Moca is superior (I use Moca betwee my family room TiVo and my kitchen Mini). I took his posts to mean he had discarded Moca and was going to replace the TiVo. Perhaps I misinterpreted.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I don't disagree that Moca is superior (I use Moca betwee my family room TiVo and my kitchen Mini). I took his posts to mean he had discarded Moca and was going to replace the TiVo. Perhaps I misinterpreted.
OP has a 2-tuner Premiere in the Master Bedroom which is currently connected via wireless, and they want to improve its connectivity -- and they have unused coax runs from their central junction box to the Master Bedroom and to every location where there is Ethernet connectivity.

They haven't used MoCA previously.
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