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post #1 of 25 Old 09-15-2019, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Backing up movies challenge

Ok, so I've been backing up my movies to a RAID for years now. We have 600+ movies backed up, everything from DVD to 4k, all genres and studios. About a year ago we witched to playing thru a Nvidia Shield and Plex, and since then MakeMKV (and the .mkv format) is the new standard, especially for 4k UHD content.

I generally only add the English versions, and none of the subtitles. Most of the time (99%) it works well, but it seems like lately the same problem has been cropping up more often.

I'll unselect everything, then select the track that I want, and the English versions of the audio track. When I play the movie back on the PC I'm ripping on, I'm getting the same annoying thing: There is narrating overdubbing the 2.1 English version. I've tried backing up many different versions, and ways, but it's happening. If I try to playback with any other audio track selected (5.1, etc), the PC can't play. If I allow another language to be backed up along with English, ONLY the English version has the narration. If I don't backup the 2.1 version, I can't playback on the PC.

HELP!?!?!
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post #2 of 25 Old 09-15-2019, 05:27 PM
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Easy solution... always back up to an .iso file and you will lose nothing. Storage is cheap these days.

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post #3 of 25 Old 09-15-2019, 07:23 PM
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What are you using for playback? Try using this https://mpc-hc.org/downloads/. Its based on LAV filters which will support anything coming from a physical disc (DVD/BR/UHD).

If the disc has more than one 2.1/2.0 English audio track on a English release, the last one is usually the commentary track.
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post #4 of 25 Old 09-16-2019, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Easy solution... always back up to an .iso file and you will lose nothing. Storage is cheap these days.
Sorry, "backup" is a euphamism for "creating a digital library from which to watch things".
And I know, I'm "backing up" my .mkv files to a 16TB array.

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What are you using for playback? Try using this https://mpc-hc.org/downloads/. Its based on LAV filters which will support anything coming from a physical disc (DVD/BR/UHD).

If the disc has more than one 2.1/2.0 English audio track on a English release, the last one is usually the commentary track.
I'm primarily playing back through the Shield, running Plex, thru the 13.2 receiver, but occasionally play plex thru the web app on PCs throughout the house.
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-16-2019, 03:06 PM
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I can "play back" my .iso files just fine, thank you very much.

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post #6 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 03:01 AM
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Storage is relatively cheap. When I populated my 4 NAS units with 4x4TB of NAS drives it still seemed kind of expensive.

Plus... When I backed stuff up I was thrilled to lose menus and forced trailers and extras that I didn't care about. I can only remember a few movies that had interesting special features or extras. And, What I mean is going to the trouble of backing up I also wanted to back up just what I was interested in.

Now, ISO makes everything is a good way. If you are selective then you do have to select the proper audio track.

I can't get behind the idea that MakeMKV is the new thing as it's pretty much the only thing I ever used and co incidentally the best. I enjoyed paying for it even though I didn't have to pay for it to use it.

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p.s. Also try VLC on your PC. You may think that is new too.. that's ok.
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post #7 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 10:26 AM
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Doug, what happens if you try playback on the PC using an application other than the Plex web app?


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post #8 of 25 Old 09-18-2019, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Storage is relatively cheap. When I populated my 4 NAS units with 4x4TB of NAS drives it still seemed kind of expensive.

Plus... When I backed stuff up I was thrilled to lose menus and forced trailers and extras that I didn't care about. I can only remember a few movies that had interesting special features or extras. And, What I mean is going to the trouble of backing up I also wanted to back up just what I was interested in.

Now, ISO makes everything is a good way. If you are selective then you do have to select the proper audio track.

I can't get behind the idea that MakeMKV is the new thing as it's pretty much the only thing I ever used and co incidentally the best. I enjoyed paying for it even though I didn't have to pay for it to use it.

-Brian

p.s. Also try VLC on your PC. You may think that is new too.. that's ok.
I hear you, I just think that's a LOT cheaper than it was a few years ago. Without the recent drops in storage pricing, I wouldn't be able to CONSIDER the 40ish 4ks I have.

I don't know much about ISO files, what media servers successfully present those? Also, the challenge I'm having, the whole REASON for this thread, is looking for help selecting the proper audio track. Do you have any wisdom on that?

I didn't say MakeMKV was the new thing, I'm saying that it being my sole container (.mkv files) is new to me.

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Doug, what happens if you try playback on the PC using an application other than the Plex web app?
Then I lose the ability to have playback on my whole library, across my PC, Mac, Shield, iPad, iPhones, etc... Much sadness ensues.
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post #9 of 25 Old 09-18-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post





Then I lose the ability to have playback on my whole library, across my PC, Mac, Shield, iPad, iPhones, etc... Much sadness ensues.
Oh nah I mean using software like jriver or Windows Media player (if they can play back the next gen codecs) to play the files back directly from your server to the PC without touching Plex elsewhere. Please would still work for all your other playback.

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post #10 of 25 Old 09-18-2019, 12:07 PM
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In terms of wisdom for picking the right audio track...

It usually isn't very difficult. If it is , play back the movie and see what types of audio tracks are available and that should help.

Maybe rip all the English audio and then you can cycle through them as a last resort.

-Brian
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post #11 of 25 Old 09-19-2019, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh nah I mean using software like jriver or Windows Media player (if they can play back the next gen codecs) to play the files back directly from your server to the PC without touching Plex elsewhere. Please would still work for all your other playback.
Yeah, I dig it. I just worry about finding something that only works on my PC, which I always burn from but is TBH the LEAST used for payback.

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In terms of wisdom for picking the right audio track...

It usually isn't very difficult. If it is , play back the movie and see what types of audio tracks are available and that should help.

Maybe rip all the English audio and then you can cycle through them as a last resort.

-Brian
Yup, I'd say 19/20 movies rip perfectly. The challenge is that (and it seems like it's happening more often) I'll rip a track based on what it contains, size, chapter count,etc. I'll play back, and it has narration over the voice track. I'll try to rip all of the English,and it plays back, but only w/Narration. If I turn off the 2.1 version, I don't have narration, but I also don't have ANY audio b/c I can't decode the 5.1, etc. If I use the same file selection, and play another language (Spanish for ex) it plays find in the 2.1 version, without Narration. I even had one file that had ~ 50 full versions of the movie, and checking EVERY. SINGLE. ONE had the same results. Either the studios are doing something different to make it more challenging to back these up, or there's something that I'm doing wrong. Considering that I've had success with over 650 discs so far, I don't think it's me.
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post #12 of 25 Old 09-19-2019, 11:39 PM
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The English audio will almost always be surround 5.1/7.1/etc. your player should be able to down convert it to stereo, if it can't, then you need a better player. If the source is Blu-Ray then you can rip the lossless to a lossy format for greater compatibility (e.g., Dolby TrueHD to Dolby digital or DTS master audio to DTS), in case your player can't do HD codecs.

The 2.1 English audio is almost always the director commentary track.

On North American releases, the French and Spanish soundtracks are also generally in 5.1/7.1.
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post #13 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Yeah, I dig it. I just worry about finding something that only works on my PC, which I always burn from but is TBH the LEAST used for payback.



Yup, I'd say 19/20 movies rip perfectly. The challenge is that (and it seems like it's happening more often) I'll rip a track based on what it contains, size, chapter count,etc. I'll play back, and it has narration over the voice track. I'll try to rip all of the English,and it plays back, but only w/Narration. If I turn off the 2.1 version, I don't have narration, but I also don't have ANY audio b/c I can't decode the 5.1, etc. If I use the same file selection, and play another language (Spanish for ex) it plays find in the 2.1 version, without Narration. I even had one file that had ~ 50 full versions of the movie, and checking EVERY. SINGLE. ONE had the same results. Either the studios are doing something different to make it more challenging to back these up, or there's something that I'm doing wrong. Considering that I've had success with over 650 discs so far, I don't think it's me.
Man everyone telling you to try a different player is super annoying. The problem here is not your player. Plex will play back *everything*.

When you rip the movie to MKV do you just select one audio track or do you select them all? Can you list output from ffprobe.exe of your backed up mkv file? Or better yet can you cut a 30 second clip of a problematic MKV for me to look at and post it somewhere? The english 2.1 track is almost always the commentary track.

As for the 5.1 track being silent, the 5.1 or whatever track is what should be played. Is your nvidia shield set to direct play this? Is it transcoding? Is it set to bitstream to your receiver? If you don't know if it's transcoding or not, play it in your nvidia shield and select the 5.1 track. When its playing go to your pc and load up plex.tv/web in your browser and see the playback streams and see if it shows your stream as direct play or transcode.

Let me know and we will get to the bottom of this.

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post #14 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
The English audio will almost always be surround 5.1/7.1/etc. your player should be able to down convert it to stereo, if it can't, then you need a better player. If the source is Blu-Ray then you can rip the lossless to a lossy format for greater compatibility (e.g., Dolby TrueHD to Dolby digital or DTS master audio to DTS), in case your player can't do HD codecs.

The 2.1 English audio is almost always the director commentary track.

On North American releases, the French and Spanish soundtracks are also generally in 5.1/7.1.
The player is Plex, and WMP, and iTunes, etc.. I'm pretty sure it's not the player...


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Man everyone telling you to try a different player is super annoying. The problem here is not your player. Plex will play back *everything*.

When you rip the movie to MKV do you just select one audio track or do you select them all? Can you list output from ffprobe.exe of your backed up mkv file? Or better yet can you cut a 30 second clip of a problematic MKV for me to look at and post it somewhere? The english 2.1 track is almost always the commentary track.

As for the 5.1 track being silent, the 5.1 or whatever track is what should be played. Is your nvidia shield set to direct play this? Is it transcoding? Is it set to bitstream to your receiver? If you don't know if it's transcoding or not, play it in your nvidia shield and select the 5.1 track. When its playing go to your pc and load up plex.tv/web in your browser and see the playback streams and see if it shows your stream as direct play or transcode.

Let me know and we will get to the bottom of this.
This is what I'm talking about, finally!

Trying to answer in order, as I have to admit I don't understand all of your questions:
I generally deselect everything, then only select the 3-4 English tracks, all of them. When I see problems, I start downselecting, but it's never worked.
IDK what that executable is, how can I get that output?
I don't have any software that will let me cut a mkv file down, any reco for a free one?
IDK if I've specifically told the shield to play any format. To clarify, I test every new rip on the PC before transferring it over to the RAID the shield is connected to. I can check Plex and WMP tho. IDK about transcoding or not, so I'll check out that idea you suggested.

Thanks!!
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post #15 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
The player is Plex, and WMP, and iTunes, etc.. I'm pretty sure it's not the player...




This is what I'm talking about, finally!

Trying to answer in order, as I have to admit I don't understand all of your questions:
I generally deselect everything, then only select the 3-4 English tracks, all of them. When I see problems, I start downselecting, but it's never worked.
IDK what that executable is, how can I get that output?
I don't have any software that will let me cut a mkv file down, any reco for a free one?
IDK if I've specifically told the shield to play any format. To clarify, I test every new rip on the PC before transferring it over to the RAID the shield is connected to. I can check Plex and WMP tho. IDK about transcoding or not, so I'll check out that idea you suggested.

Thanks!!
ok when you test your playback on the PC what are you using for that?
What happens if you just copy the file to your plex server and try to play it back through plex?

ffprobe.exe is part of ffmpeg. You can download a windows build here: https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/wi...n64-static.zip
This is a command line program.
Download the binary above, extract the bin folder and you have 3 .exe files. ffplay.exe, ffmpeg.exe and ffprobe.exe. ffprobe will just output info on each stream and exit. Extract ffprobe.exe to your hdd and open a command prompt to that location. Then run the command ffprobe YOURMKVFILE.MKV > out.txt
This should generate an out.txt you can paste here that will show all the info on the file and streams you've copied.

A free tool to split mkv files and do other things is mkvtoolnix. Windows build is here:
https://www.fosshub.com/MKVToolNix.h...-bit-37.0.0.7z
Actually, this has a tool called mkvinfo.exe in the bundle that you can use in place of ffprobe if you want.
mkvinfo.exe YOURMKVFILE.MKV > out.txt and paste the out.txt here.

OK to get a 30 second clip of your file, load mkvtoolnix-gui.exe. At least this is a GUI app. Drag the mkv file into the main window.
Then click the "output" tab.
See the "splitting" section. Under "split mode" select "by parts based on time codes"
In Parts, enter: 00:05:00-00:05:30
At the bottom of the screen you see output file. It's probably just your input file with (1) appended. But you can change this to something like test.mkv if its easier.
Click "start muxing". It should be done in a minute or so. Text.mkv should be small enough to upload somewhere like google drive or such.
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post #16 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Man everyone telling you to try a different player is super annoying. The problem here is not your player. Plex will play back *everything*.

When you rip the movie to MKV do you just select one audio track or do you select them all? Can you list output from ffprobe.exe of your backed up mkv file? Or better yet can you cut a 30 second clip of a problematic MKV for me to look at and post it somewhere? The english 2.1 track is almost always the commentary track.

As for the 5.1 track being silent, the 5.1 or whatever track is what should be played. Is your nvidia shield set to direct play this? Is it transcoding? Is it set to bitstream to your receiver? If you don't know if it's transcoding or not, play it in your nvidia shield and select the 5.1 track. When its playing go to your pc and load up plex.tv/web in your browser and see the playback streams and see if it shows your stream as direct play or transcode.

Let me know and we will get to the bottom of this.
plex will not play back .iso files!

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post #17 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 09:32 AM
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I hear you, I just think that's a LOT cheaper than it was a few years ago. Without the recent drops in storage pricing, I wouldn't be able to CONSIDER the 40ish 4ks I have.

I don't know much about ISO files, what media servers successfully present those? Also, the challenge I'm having, the whole REASON for this thread, is looking for help selecting the proper audio track. Do you have any wisdom on that?

I didn't say MakeMKV was the new thing, I'm saying that it being my sole container (.mkv files) is new to me.



Then I lose the ability to have playback on my whole library, across my PC, Mac, Shield, iPad, iPhones, etc... Much sadness ensues.
Jriver, Foobar2k, DVDFab Media Player all play .iso files on a pc. USB Pro does on Android... there are ones for nearly any platform

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post #18 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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plex will not play back .iso files!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
Jriver, Foobar2k, DVDFab Media Player all play .iso files on a pc. USB Pro does on Android... there are ones for nearly any platform
Agreed, the challenge isn't finding something for each platform. The challenge is finding one thing that plays well on ALL platforms, while not requiring me to change my storage style or ease/method of interface.
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post #19 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 09:40 AM
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Backing up movies challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post

I generally deselect everything, tracks, all of them. When I see problems, I start downselecting, but it's never worked.


Hey, one thing to consider is to select only one track (the high res track). Your Plex server will handle the rest. For instance, i have a rip of Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague (using this example because it’s the most recent). This is a Dolby Atmos track; however, I play it back on my phone often at work and the 2 channel audio comes through my headphones just fine.

So maybe only select only one track when ripping: the Atmos or DTS:X English track, skip the other tracks since Plex can handle it from there?


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post #20 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 03:31 PM
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plex will not play back .iso files!
Which cares? The OP isn’t using iso files here.
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post #21 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 03:37 PM
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The op was asking for best backup method

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post #22 of 25 Old 09-20-2019, 03:37 PM
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...and you said plex plays everything

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post #23 of 25 Old 09-22-2019, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Hey, one thing to consider is to select only one track (the high res track). Your Plex server will handle the rest. For instance, i have a rip of Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague (using this example because it’s the most recent). This is a Dolby Atmos track; however, I play it back on my phone often at work and the 2 channel audio comes through my headphones just fine.

So maybe only select only one track when ripping: the Atmos or DTS:X English track, skip the other tracks since Plex can handle it from there?
I'm telling you, I'm still missing something. I always grab those two, and the voice-over shows up on both PC and IOS.

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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
The op was asking for best backup method
Techiaclly, the OP was asking for a way to "backup" movies that allowed them to be in a single location to allow playback through multiple means.

If you still think that means that the main goal is "backing up", then you missed the true intent of this thread, sorry.
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post #24 of 25 Old 09-24-2019, 02:52 AM
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Ok I need to ask a different question...600+ movies...do you really think you'll re-watch all those again? I used to be similar with being a digital pack-rat with have about 100+ movies (and I thought that was a lot), but then one day realized that 95% of them I pretty much knew I wouldn't watch again. Now a days I keep about 15-20 of my favorites digitized that I do like to watch from time to time, but that's it. For those less interested movies but with the off-chance I might re-watch I usually can grab off of streaming service and usually for free if I'm okay with an ad or 2.
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post #25 of 25 Old 09-24-2019, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I need to ask a different question...600+ movies...do you really think you'll re-watch all those again? I used to be similar with being a digital pack-rat with have about 100+ movies (and I thought that was a lot), but then one day realized that 95% of them I pretty much knew I wouldn't watch again. Now a days I keep about 15-20 of my favorites digitized that I do like to watch from time to time, but that's it. For those less interested movies but with the off-chance I might re-watch I usually can grab off of streaming service and usually for free if I'm okay with an ad or 2.
This is an interesting question, something that I've gone back over many times. It's not all that different from my picture collection and music: I digitized them over 10 years ago, and just keep adding to them. The initial time sink is huge, but adding a couple every month after that is pretty simple. I know many will think that "pictures are different", but I'm not sure.

Here's my thinking:
- I LIKE having the movies all ready and available, so we can scroll thru and just pick one. We watch a LOT of movies, and with a 2 and 4 y/o, they're still exploring many of the "older movies" that we've put away to never watch again
- IMO, having an online and browsable collection is no different than a quality 4k player, high-speed streaming service, or HD cable connection. It's just a component in my system that I need to "feel complete"
- Since my room is 9.4.4, (Atmos enabled), many streaming services aren't sufficient. I know that some are going that way, but without buying the Atmos disc, or buying an Atmos digital version, I can't take advantage of what the room can do
- It's really nice having all of the movies in large plastic storage bins, on the other side of the house. I don't have to manage the physical content to find Bambi 2, or Paw Patrol season 1, or make sure the containers are alphabetized so I can find them. Buy it, rip it, forget it.
- The alternative would be bookshelves, which we had before the number broke ~400 or so. At that point we were already outgrowing the second bookshelf, on the way to 3. I know we'd be past that 3rd, onto a 4th by now. That's just too much space now.
- There's a HUGE trend of folks dumping their physical media and migrating to streaming, which means it's a gold rush for folks like me that stick to discs. There are 2-3 different Used Bookstores near me that take books and media (CDs, movies, records, etc) in on trade, and resell them. At my favorite I can get 5 DVDS (don't buy them) or 4 BluRays or 3 4k for $10. They have pretty much everything in there, and I'm stocking up like crazy! For the price of one 4k UHD, I'm getting 10-15 movies every other week or so! Quote me next year, and I bet I've added another RAID array and broken 1k movies!
- Using that math, I can either "rent" one digital movie from the streaming service of choice, or buy it (actually for a few bucks LESS usually) and keep it forever? No brainer, IMO.

I understand that not everyone has my OCD-collector personality, and the ability to add a RAID array to their home. I know that lots out there think that it's archaic to even THINK about not streaming content. For those reasons (and I'm sure others), none of those points I made matter. That's ok, we all enjoy this hobby differently!

Just to continue the conversation, what're your thoughts on the above?
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