What devices will stream Amazon Music HD Lossless - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Thanks. Is the bit a straight dB? 16 bit is a dynamic range of up to 16dB or is it a different scale?
Human hearing is about 140db. 24 bits equates to 144db. 16 bits is 96db.

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post #32 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Fire Stick will be capped at 48 kHz on FLAC files per: https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fi...ftvstick4kgen1

But based on the explanation above on the sample rate, it wont matter.
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post #33 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Good info but even if the "high res' content that Amazon is passing off is not true "end to end" high res as you have described, its still an improvement on the lossy streaming that has been available up until now. And high res is really just the gravy, the main advantage is the CD quality content since it represents the vast majority of the available library. Your argument is similar to the Real vs Fake 4K debate in the video field. Even fake 4K is better than 1080P (most of the time)



It's not perfect but as I mentioned earlier, its still good news for consumers.
This is not new. What about Qobuz, and Tidal?

People should be informed when they are not getting what they paid for.

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post #34 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
This is not new. What about Qobuz, and Tidal?

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Its not new but its additional consumer choice at a lower cost. Plus its another alternative to MQA without having to pay a premium.
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post #35 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:30 PM
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FireTV 4k says the device capability is 16-bit / 48khz connected to my Yamaha RX-A3080.

Good enough for CD quality.
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post #36 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
FireTV 4k says the device capability is 16-bit / 48khz connected to my Yamaha RX-A3080.

Good enough for CD quality.
See if there are options in settings to increase. Based on this hardware spec for Fire TV 4K stick, assuming they are FLAC files, it should do 24bit. It even states "no dithering" so true 24-bit I assume.

https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fi...ftvstick4kgen1
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post #37 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve Roach stuff is in HD. New age stuff like that probably really benefits from higher quality code. Listening to one of his song now and my subwoofer shock my chest like on some ultra low movies - did not really hear it but felt it, so I guess the stream goes to low Hz.

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post #38 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Steve Roach stuff is in HD. New age stuff like that probably really benefits from higher quality code. Listening to one of his song now and my subwoofer shock my chest like on some ultra low movies - did not really hear it but felt it, so I guess the stream goes to low Hz.
Contact his label, Projekt records, and ask them for the recording provenance

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post #39 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:41 PM
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No go. Everything is set to best available.

There seems to be variable streaming in the app as well. HD quality songs start streaming in standard (lossy) quality and then change to HD.

I'm pretty sure you can force the Android app to only play HD/Ultra HD regardless of network conditions.
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post #40 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
No go. Everything is set to best available.

There seems to be variable streaming in the app as well. HD quality songs start streaming in standard (lossy) quality and then change to HD.

I'm pretty sure you can force the Android app to only play HD/Ultra HD regardless of network conditions.
This seems to mirror what happens on Amazon Prime Video for UHD content.
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post #41 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
No go. Everything is set to best available.

There seems to be variable streaming in the app as well. HD quality songs start streaming in standard (lossy) quality and then change to HD.

I'm pretty sure you can force the Android app to only play HD/Ultra HD regardless of network conditions.

What device is streaming in that video display?
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post #42 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 08:09 PM
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I hope Amazon doesn't screw this up like they do with Amazon video.

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post #43 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
What device is streaming in that video display?
FireTV 4k
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post #44 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 11:12 PM
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Did a search for Norah Jones, and a UltraHD playlists popped up for her. Haven’t seen that for any other artists yet, but I’ve only searched a few artists so far.
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post #45 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 11:26 PM
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Unlike Tidal which has a prominent Masters section (Masters playlists, Masters by Genre, New to Masters, New Masters Albums) I don't see anything similar on Amazon.

However if one searches by artist, and then expands the album discography it generates a lot of High Res Albums. In some cases, only certain tracks are high res though
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post #46 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 11:27 PM
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Also noticed that Amazon’s hi-res library is not as large as Tidal’s. Though I do realize it’s in its infancy.

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post #47 of 245 Old 09-17-2019, 11:31 PM
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Using Amazon Echo Auto this evening and requesting known UHD content works fantastic. Sound is comparable to Tidal MQA but the convenience of managing by voice command while driving can't be beat.
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post #48 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Fire Stick will be capped at 48 kHz on FLAC files per: https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fi...ftvstick4kgen1

But based on the explanation above on the sample rate, it wont matter.
I tested 24/48 vs 24/96 and couldn't tell any difference and I don't think anyone else could either.

I used to play back 24/96 files from a music server but now play them back directly through my ATV4K. It down samples to 24/48 but still sounds perfect.

I find surround sound (5.1) high res to be the most interesting but nothing offers that for streaming and few devices that support High Res Audio support surround sound. (My Denon S730H and Sony X700 say they support High Res Audio but neither does gapless playback or surround sound.)

I listen to Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and other Pink Floyd recordings at 24/48 in 5.1 surround sound.

I'm glad to see high res coming to streaming. Never had interest in Tidal and never will.

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post #49 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Using Amazon Echo Auto this evening and requesting known UHD content works fantastic. Sound is comparable to Tidal MQA but the convenience of managing by voice command while driving can't be beat.
@PlanetAVS, that is good news then. I received the echo auto a few days ago, and have not set up. I think I will take the time tonight. Did you set your Echo Auto up via Bluetooth?
Thanks, Russ
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post #50 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 09:37 AM
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@PlanetAVS, that is good news then. I received the echo auto a few days ago, and have not set up. I think I will take the time tonight. Did you set your Echo Auto up via Bluetooth?
Thanks, Russ
It requires Bluetooth and Location Services on but its just a connection between Echo Auto and the mobile device. I use 3.5mm to connect to the car audio system, so that there is no loss of quality transmitting via Bluetooth
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post #51 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 10:51 AM
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First a question, then a comment:



Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Sounds like you are getting HD (CD quality). Which is still better than any other streaming service aside from Tidal/Qobuz/Deezer. Amazon is saying external DACs are not supported on Android right now, to get the UHD content. Check if your AVR has a native Amazon service which you can control with the AVR's app (example, Denon HEOS)
What isn't clear to me yet is how they're handling (or not) bit-perfect playback...

What I know is that with my own FLAC files as well as my streaming subscription to Qobuz, I need to either use Desktop software like Roon, Qobuz's desktop application (not a browser window), or Foobar to make sure I'm outputting via WASAPI or AIOS... or on mobile (Android) I have to use an app like USB Audio Player Pro and configure within settings to output via External DAC... otherwise Windows and Android both will *play* FLAC files (from 16/44.1 to 24/96), but not without first muddling them (for lack of a technical term). To get the 1's and 0's out, unadulterated, for a downstream DAC to D-to-A the original files... is not always easy.

And without using one of those apps/programs and getting bit-perfect output, the results are noticably degraded. When they say Android can support "up to" 24/48, that's clever phrasing, IMO.... Obviously I don't have hands-on run-time with ALL Android devices... but I have/use several. And just relying on something like Plex, which supports playback of these files but (to my knowledge) does not have any way to bypass the native android renderer before output? My NVidia Shield "upsamples" all of my 16/44.1 CD rips and 24/44.1 HiRez files to 16/48 and 24/48, repectively (and does a really poor job at that upsampling). And Roon converts everything to 16/48 when I specify my phone as the endpoint...

I'm not in the Amazon ecosystem. This news has me intrigued... but going and looking at external devices like Echo Dot's and Echo Dot Inputs, etc... it looks like they can only do external output via Analog 3.5mm jack, and don't support USB output?
[Edit/Update] - Amazon Echo Link. still in search of confirmation that it's "bit-perfect", but it certainly *could* be... and at least has a digital output option.


All of these unanswered questions (for me... maybe someone here can shed some light or educate) have me thinking that I can't currenlty "make this work for me" for either my headphone rig or my whole-home-speaker setup...



Quote:
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Ok. Quick education time...

CD redbook quality is 44.1khz/16 bits. The 16 bits represents the dynamic range or the potential difference between the loudest and softest sound in the file. The 44.1khz in sampling theory represents double the highest potential frequency that can be exactly digitized without loss. Thus 22khz or above "human hearing". The ONLY reasons to record music above 44.1khz/16 bits are:

1. Allow additional headroom for filtering, compression, noise correction, etc.
2. Capture as much energy in the room that might come from sounds that we cannot necessarily hear but may be able to sense.
3. Allow for greater range in the quietest to loudest sounds.

Most recordings to date have been done on equipment that could not even come close to these specifications. For example, the Nirvana album cited above was recorded in early 1991 on a Studer 2" tape machine that is almost identical to the one that you will see in my signature below. The microphones, tape and tape machine used in this recording could not produce more that 10 bits of dynamic range and could only capture frequencies below 18khz when freshly calibrated. All you would need to fully play this back would be a file that is 36khz/10bit. Anything above that would be a bigger file padded with zeros.


According to Amazon, if i were to digitize a record that i was playing back from a 1913 Edison player using a $2 plastic Hasbro microphone at 192khz/24bits, that would be called ULTRA HD quality.


I like TRUE High Resolution recordings that are made with high res microphones using Hi Res DACS and saved with 96khz sampling without using low res mixing/mastering plug-ins. There are very few recordings that are true high resolution. You must generally check with the label. Some of these labels are AIX Records, 2L Records, and Naxos.

I would be surprised if the total number of real high resolution recordings that Amazon offers is above 300 even if they label 2 Million of them that way. This is why knowing the provenance of a recording is so important!
Such is the life and struggle of the digital audiophile.

For me, by-far-and-away the #1 reason to buy HiRez 24-bit files is if/when (and they aren't always) the same "mastering". When the CD release has been intentionally mastered to have less dynamic range, so that it and MP3's made from it will sound "better in people's cars"... sometimes the 24-bit version of the album has more dynamics. Software like Roon can scan the file and tell you if it has more dynamic range than the CD or not (assuming you own both). Most (but not all) of the songs on the Fleetwood Mac Greatest Hits CD, ripped losslessly to FLAC, tend to have more dynamic range (as measured by Roon using r128) than the HiRez 24-bit versions I recently purchased of the S/T album and the Rumours album. I recently (within the last 3-4 weeks) bought compies of Green Day's American Idiot (Edition Studio Master's) and Pearl Jam's 10 in 24-bit Hi-Rez, and those versions both sound better to my ears (anecdotally) AND measure better in Roon than previous versions I have.

I am still open to the idea that the 24-bits *can* matter, if only a very very very little bit... to the listening experience. I think there might be more to it than just that it has more TOTAL dynamic range, but that it also moves from minimum to maximum in smaller more nuanced steps... I'm personally pretty skeptical of any value to sampling rates beyond 44.1 and 48 khz... I think that's all nonsense.

I am a big believer in this stuff though. To my ears, the difference between 16/44.1 lossless FLAC and 320 kbps MP3's is noticable/discernible, and contrary to what some will tell you, I can do quite well in a Blind A-B test. Anything that gives you access to that is a good thing, IMO. And having access to and the ability to play back 24 bit HiRez can give you access to some "better recordings" of content, which is also really cool/enjoyable if you're into this sort of thing, as I am...

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post #52 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 10:55 AM
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Doesn't work with Chromecast Audio

From the FAQ:

Quote:
Amazon Music can only be played in Standard quality on Chromecast.


The good speakers in my house are part of my home theater. I use Chromecast Audio for music on them. I also have an Apple TV that I use for streaming video, but I can't seem to get that to work. I was hoping I could get it to work with the pj on, and then set up a macro so I could use Amazon Music without the pj. Now I don't think I can even use Amazon Music with Apple TV at all, so that's kind of a dead end.

My pre-amp doesn't have a bunch of different apps or anything, so it seems like I'm SOL on this one.

Anyone with some ideas on how to get it to stream at full fidelity to a non-Alexa device?
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post #53 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 11:02 AM
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Thanks PlanetAVS, I am missing the 3.5 mm option in my Ford...
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post #54 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
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I've tested the following methods, all work well as far as I can tell:

Amazon via HEOS to my Denon
Amazon via Android app casting to my Denon via Alexa
Amazon via Bluesound to my Denon
Amazon Windows app through Audioquest DAC

For the Amazon Windows App, were you able to "Cast" or control audio playback with a mobile device? I have a non-HEOS Marantz AVR and would like to try out my Laptop which is currently connected to my Meridian Explorer 2 DAC, capable of 24bit/192kHz resolution.

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post #55 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
From the FAQ:





The good speakers in my house are part of my home theater. I use Chromecast Audio for music on them. I also have an Apple TV that I use for streaming video, but I can't seem to get that to work. I was hoping I could get it to work with the pj on, and then set up a macro so I could use Amazon Music without the pj. Now I don't think I can even use Amazon Music with Apple TV at all, so that's kind of a dead end.

My pre-amp doesn't have a bunch of different apps or anything, so it seems like I'm SOL on this one.

Anyone with some ideas on how to get it to stream at full fidelity to a non-Alexa device?
You might want to consider an Echo Dot or a FireTV 4K stick.
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post #56 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
For the Amazon Windows App, were you able to "Cast" or control audio playback with a mobile device? I have a non-HEOS Marantz AVR and would like to try out my Laptop which is currently connected to my Meridian Explorer 2 DAC, capable of 24bit/192kHz resolution.
Not sure I understand your question correctly but I don't control the Windows app via mobile. I use it from my laptop, outputting to an Audioquest Dragonfly DAC and then to powered speakers and subwoofer.
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post #57 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
You might want to consider an Echo Dot or a FireTV 4K stick.
I may have to bite the bullet and get one. I'm actually very reluctant to have anything Alexa (or Siri or OK Google or Cortana) related in my home. I hate the idea of the microphone always being on. If they had a FireTV 4K stick that didn't have Alexa, I'd pick it up immediately.
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post #58 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
I may have to bite the bullet and get one. I'm actually very reluctant to have anything Alexa (or Siri or OK Google or Cortana) related in my home. I hate the idea of the microphone always being on. If they had a FireTV 4K stick that didn't have Alexa, I'd pick it up immediately.
I feel the same as you. I don't want these services passively listening in my home. However, the FTV Stick 4K remote has a microphone button you have to press and hold in order to actively engage Alexa.

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post #59 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I've tested the following methods, all work well as far as I can tell:

Amazon via HEOS to my Denon
Amazon via Android app casting to my Denon via Alexa
Amazon via Bluesound to my Denon
Amazon Windows app through Audioquest DAC

Some folks over on the Roon forums seem to be indicating that they're having a hard time figuring out how to bypass the Windows OS audio mixer for ouptut to an external DAC... which isn't encouraging, IMO. But I haven't tried yet/seen for myself...
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post #60 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
I feel the same as you. I don't want these services passively listening in my home. However, the FTV Stick 4K remote has a microphone button you have to press and hold in order to actively engage Alexa.
That's encouraging. I suspect, though, that they're still listening even if I don't press the button.

But who am I kidding? I carry around a video camera and microphone in my pocket everywhere I go...
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