What devices will stream Amazon Music HD Lossless - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
Some folks over on the Roon forums seem to be indicating that they're having a hard time figuring out how to bypass the Windows OS audio mixer for ouptut to an external DAC... which isn't encouraging, IMO. But I haven't tried yet/seen for myself...
Is this what you're referring to?
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post #62 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
I may have to bite the bullet and get one. I'm actually very reluctant to have anything Alexa (or Siri or OK Google or Cortana) related in my home. I hate the idea of the microphone always being on. If they had a FireTV 4K stick that didn't have Alexa, I'd pick it up immediately.
Actually I just remembered that someone else reported that their FTV4K stick was limited to 48Khz sampling. Don't know if they are on the current version though.

I haven't done any listening comparisons yet so this might change, but my go to method for listening on my home theater will probably be Bluesound Node, then HEOS casting from Amazon Echo. But I'm very happy with my Windows>Audioquest>powered speakers/subwoofer setup.
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post #63 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Is this what you're referring to?

Yes, sort of. I think I might expect to see it say "Dragonfly - WASAPI Exclusive" or something if it were bypassing the windows audio mixer... but i don't know for sure.


It probably won't be tonight, but if nobody else beats me to it, I'll try to see what it shows regarding my connection when I'm on Foobar or Roon and post that, for comparison...
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post #64 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Actually I just remembered that someone else reported that their FTV4K stick was limited to 48Khz sampling. Don't know if they are on the current version though.
Looks like you're right, unless they're doing a firmware update: https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fi...ecifications-1
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post #65 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
That's encouraging. I suspect, though, that they're still listening even if I don't press the button.

But who am I kidding? I carry around a video camera and microphone in my pocket everywhere I go...
Not saying you are wrong, but I'd be less concerned about the microphone in the remote.

You'd be killing batteries too often if it was always listening. It's not an always plugged in device or a device that recharges every day (like a phone).

Now the Echo Dot....


Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
Looks like you're right, unless they're doing a firmware update: https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fi...ecifications-1
Yes 48khz, but mine (with latest firmware/software last night 9/17) was also limited to 16-bit output.

Perhaps it's just an app limitation for now and they'll update it to allow 24-bit output.

Last edited by dwaleke; 09-18-2019 at 03:44 PM.
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post #66 of 245 Old 09-18-2019, 04:01 PM
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I installed the Amazon Music app on my Windows Laptop and Pixel 2 phone. While casting is available for my Shield, Sony TV, Chromecast Ultra, and two Google Home Minis, there's no way to play any content to my AVR with the exception of a Blue Tooth connection between my Phone and AVR, or having my Laptop in hand while using a DAC that is physically connected to my AVR.

Can't complain since it's a 90-day free service.

Roon has Spoiled me.


Edit:

A new discovery. It appears that all of the CDs I purchased from Amazon in the past are all available in the Amazon Music Interface. I stored some music on my Amazon Drive storage space, and that appeared as well.

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post #67 of 245 Old 09-19-2019, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post
A new discovery. It appears that all of the CDs I purchased from Amazon in the past are all available in the Amazon Music Interface. I stored some music on my Amazon Drive storage space, and that appeared as well.

Where they lossless FLAC or lossy MP3? I get/got "autorip" MP3's with most (all?) of my CD purchases through Amazon... would be cool if they "upgraded" you to FLAC as part of Amazon HD.


Also, did you move any lossless FLAC over to Amazon Drive? Did they remain as FLAC, and play back as FLAC or did Amazon convert them to something else? Other services I've used will see my FLAC and use my FLAC, but convert them to high bitrate MP3 for use within their service (Google Play Music, for example)...
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post #68 of 245 Old 09-19-2019, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
Where they lossless FLAC or lossy MP3? I get/got "autorip" MP3's with most (all?) of my CD purchases through Amazon... would be cool if they "upgraded" you to FLAC as part of Amazon HD.


Also, did you move any lossless FLAC over to Amazon Drive? Did they remain as FLAC, and play back as FLAC or did Amazon convert them to something else? Other services I've used will see my FLAC and use my FLAC, but convert them to high bitrate MP3 for use within their service (Google Play Music, for example)...
Good questions. All of the "purchased" CDs were in "HD" format. None of them were in Ultra HD. However, I was able to find an Ultra HD version of "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis. This reminded me of Roon where you have the option to search for alternative versions of music you own or imported into your library.

I haven't used my Amazon Drive in years. There were 4 mp3 files stored there. I believe the last time I used this drive was when Plex gave you an option to connect to cloud storage. I can try this evening to see if any conversion takes place. I do have some 24/192 Flac files purchased from HDTracks that I can use.

My concern now is the actual quality of the files considering I've been used to seeing my DAC's "indicator lights" change depending on what type of file is being streamed. That's not so say the audio I was hearing was poor or of subpar quality, because the music I was listening to sounded very good.
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post #69 of 245 Old 09-19-2019, 07:35 AM
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My previous Amazon CD purchases show up as HD/lossless FLAC (as you would expect), since all content should be streaming in at least CD quality. When there is a UHD version, its available but it needs to be accessed via the "Music Unlimited" tab. It will still show up as HD in the "My Music" section.
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post #70 of 245 Old 09-19-2019, 02:18 PM
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I just signed up for the HD service using my Chromebook. Using the computer I built an "Album" player list using the Search box. I entered the artist name, went to the Album section and choose which albums I wanted added to the Album list.

Next I turned on my TV in the LR where I have my best surround setup and fired up Amazon Music on the new Firestick 4K I installed last week. Under My Music I found my Player Lists, went to Albums. I have loaded about fifteen albums so far so I went to the first song in the first album and listened to a few. Then I found the shuffle icon at the bottom, hit it, and I'm off to the races. I assume that if I turn off shuffle it will just pick up on whatever song and album I'm on and go sequentially from there. Nothing is perfect. A Dizzy Gillespie album just started to play in HD and you can easily hear the age of the recording, sometime in the 50's or 60's.

In the upper left corner of the album info there is a orange indicator of the quality level. Right now I'm listening to Neil Diamond's Hot August Night and it says ULTRA HD. The previous song was HD. Really cool.

I'll be discontinuing my Pandora $5/mo. subscription later today and up my payment for the better quality.
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post #71 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
Yes, sort of. I think I might expect to see it say "Dragonfly - WASAPI Exclusive" or something if it were bypassing the windows audio mixer... but i don't know for sure.
Or, it could have an Exclusive Mode option check box, like the TIDAL Windows Desktop app does.


If the Amazon Desktop app isn't capable of using exclusive mode for the selected audio output device, then the audio will be resampled by the Windows audio mixer to whatever the default Windows sample rate & bit depth settings are set to for that audio output device!

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post #72 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post
I just signed up for the HD service using my Chromebook. Using the computer I built an "Album" player list using the Search box. I entered the artist name, went to the Album section and choose which albums I wanted added to the Album list.

Next I turned on my TV in the LR where I have my best surround setup and fired up Amazon Music on the new Firestick 4K I installed last week. Under My Music I found my Player Lists, went to Albums. I have loaded about fifteen albums so far so I went to the first song in the first album and listened to a few. Then I found the shuffle icon at the bottom, hit it, and I'm off to the races. I assume that if I turn off shuffle it will just pick up on whatever song and album I'm on and go sequentially from there. Nothing is perfect. A Dizzy Gillespie album just started to play in HD and you can easily hear the age of the recording, sometime in the 50's or 60's.

In the upper left corner of the album info there is a orange indicator of the quality level. Right now I'm listening to Neil Diamond's Hot August Night and it says ULTRA HD. The previous song was HD. Really cool.

I'll be discontinuing my Pandora $5/mo. subscription later today and up my payment for the better quality.
Per the 4K FTV Stick specs, it's limited to 48kHz. Do you have a way to verify the sampling rate while playing HD (96kHz) and UHD (192kHz) song?

Irrespective of specs, do the HD and UHD songs you've listened too sound better than regular non-HD/UHD amazon music library?

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post #73 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Per the 4K FTV Stick specs, it's limited to 48kHz. Do you have a way to verify the sampling rate while playing HD (96kHz) and UHD (192kHz) song?

Irrespective of specs, do the HD and UHD songs you've listened too sound better than regular non-HD/UHD amazon music library?
Signed up for the sorta free promo today. Have to pay $7.99/month for Music Unlimited to get the "free" three month HD promo. Then a total of $12.99/month thereafter.

Disappointed (so far) using the FTV Stick 4K. Check the streaming stats in the pic below. The UHD track in the pic is 24/44.1 but the 4K Stick is limited to 16 bits. Hopefully Amazon will introduce some new FTV devices next week that can minimally support 24/96 (and possibly 24/192).

Amazon's own definitions:
HD: 16/44.1 (CD Quality)
UHD: Up to 24/192.

I need to listen to more tunes on my system but I believe there is a slight improvement over their normal SD library but I'm not sure yet it's worth paying extra for.

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post #74 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Signed up for the sorta free promo today. Have to pay $7.99/month for Music Unlimited to get the "free" three month HD promo. Then a total of $12.99/month thereafter.

Disappointed (so far) using the FTV Stick 4K. Check the streaming stats in the pic below. The UHD track in the pic is 24/44.1 but the 4K Stick is limited to 16 bits. Hopefully Amazon will introduce some new FTV devices next week that can minimally support 24/96 (and possibly 24/192).

Amazon's own definitions:
HD: 16/44.1 (CD Quality)
UHD: Up to 24/192.

I need to listen to more tunes on my system but I believe there is a slight improvement over their normal SD library but I'm not sure yet it's worth paying extra for.

Great info. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if they're (intelligently) selecting a native 16/44.1 downmixed version of the HiRez master... Or are they letting that hardware (4k stick) do the transcoding on the fly...
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post #75 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 06:29 PM
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Anyone using an Nvidia Shield able to display file information, similar to the screenshot taken by kokishin?

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post #76 of 245 Old 09-20-2019, 08:10 PM
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Artist playlists

I have to admit that Amazon's artist playlist are quite good. My 90 day trial is going to make me have to make a choice about Tidal and Pandora. I use Tidal for sound quality, Pandora for casual listening and their playlists. Right now, Amazon seems to be giving me both. Hmmm......
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post #77 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
Some folks over on the Roon forums seem to be indicating that they're having a hard time figuring out how to bypass the Windows OS audio mixer for ouptut to an external DAC... which isn't encouraging, IMO. But I haven't tried yet/seen for myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Is this what you're referring to?
So FWIW this is what I"m talking about. When I'm using Qobuz's Desktop app (not a web browser), it has a list of options for selecting how audio is output via USB. And within Roon Settings the software let's me configure each one individually as it's own "Endpoint". I'm hoping to hear that Amazon has made available similar means to avoid the operating system resampling the audio before it outputs.
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post #78 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebolla View Post
Or, it could have an Exclusive Mode option check box, like the TIDAL Windows Desktop app does.


If the Amazon Desktop app isn't capable of using exclusive mode for the selected audio output device, then the audio will be resampled by the Windows audio mixer to whatever the default Windows sample rate & bit depth settings are set to for that audio output device!
Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post
So FWIW this is what I"m talking about. When I'm using Qobuz's Desktop app (not a web browser), it has a list of options for selecting how audio is output via USB. And within Roon Settings the software let's me configure each one individually as it's own "Endpoint". I'm hoping to hear that Amazon has made available similar means to avoid the operating system resampling the audio before it outputs.
Unfortunately I'm not seeing anything in the Amazon desktop app either, unlike the Tidal desktop app
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post #79 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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I've been playing Amazon Music HD with Heos on my Marantz AV7704 and have really been enjoying it, EXCEPT for the fact the "My Music" is not available in the Heos version of the app. You have to search for each album and track from scratch.

Heos really needs to add "My Music". Sonos has Amazon's "My Music" within the Sonos version of the app, so it is clearly possible from a software standpoint.

I asked D/M support about this and all they came back with is that there are no Heos updates planned and they sent me a link to their Heos blog, which was useless.

Is there a Heos community forum that D/M actually listens to?

Ultimately, Amazon should add a feature like Spotify's "Connect" within the native app. Sure, the app has the "Cast" feature, but this has a lot of limitations vs. Spotify's "Connect" feature.




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post #80 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 04:18 PM
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I've been playing Amazon Music HD with Heos on my Marantz AV7704 and have really been enjoying it, EXCEPT for the fact the "My Music" is not available in the Heos version of the app. You have to search for each album and track from scratch.

Heos really needs to add "My Music". Sonos has Amazon's "My Music" within the Sonos version of the app, so it is clearly possible from a software standpoint.

I asked D/M support about this and all they came back with is that there are no Heos updates planned and they sent me a link to their Heos blog, which was useless.

Is there a Heos community forum that D/M actually listens to?

Ultimately, Amazon should add a feature like Spotify's "Connect" within the native app. Sure, the app has the "Cast" feature, but this has a lot of limitations vs. Spotify's "Connect" feature.

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What are the limitations of casting from the Amazon app? Not sure but I believe that it casts via HEOS.
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post #81 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 06:55 PM
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What are the limitations of casting from the Amazon app? Not sure but I believe that it casts via HEOS.
My Marantz AV7704 does not even show up as a cast target.

Are you using Alexa Cast? I know zero about Alexa Cast and am totally illiterate on the whole voice assistance thing. I don't have Alexa set up on anything.

On the Sonos forum, someone indicated that Alexa Cast limited the stream to the SD bitrate.

If you are casting to Heos and have a way to clock the bitrate of HD and UHD tracks, I would be very interested to hear if you get bitrates that reflect a HD and UHD stream.

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post #82 of 245 Old 09-21-2019, 11:06 PM
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So one thing I’ve noticed between Tidal, Qobuz and Amazon HD. They all seem to pretty much have the same albums in Hi-Res. I’m sure this may not be 100% true, but I’m willing to bet it’s at least 90% true. I also noticed with Tidal and Amazon HD they both will have a Hi-Res version as well as a standard version with no indication. Can’t remember if Qobuz is the same way. Just for reference, I’ve been using HEOS for Amazon, but Bluesound for Tidal in order to get MQA. Bluesound also has Amazon as well as Qobuz. I haven’t noticed any difference in sound quality between the three. For me the deciding factor will be curated playlist and availability of music because I will not continue to pay for multiple services. I currently pay for Pandora (love their playlists) and Tidal for sound quality. Amazon seems to cover both. Guess I’ll be making a decision when my trial ends in December.

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post #83 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
My Marantz AV7704 does not even show up as a cast target.

Are you using Alexa Cast? I know zero about Alexa Cast and am totally illiterate on the whole voice assistance thing. I don't have Alexa set up on anything.

On the Sonos forum, someone indicated that Alexa Cast limited the stream to the SD bitrate.

If you are casting to Heos and have a way to clock the bitrate of HD and UHD tracks, I would be very interested to hear if you get bitrates that reflect a HD and UHD stream.
Unfortunately casting stopped working for me today, still trying to troubleshoot it. I'll definitely check if I can get a bit depth and sampling frequency.

The Amazon Music HD FAQ lists the 2nd generation and later Echo devices as supporting HD. If one connects from Alexa to Bluetooth, then definitely there will be a loss in quality. The screenshot in my earlier post suggests that the Amazon app casts to HEOS via Alexa. If so, that will give you a lossless access to My Music.

https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011
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post #84 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Unfortunately casting stopped working for me today, still trying to troubleshoot it. I'll definitely check if I can get a bit depth and sampling frequency.

The Amazon Music HD FAQ lists the 2nd generation and later Echo devices as supporting HD. If one connects from Alexa to Bluetooth, then definitely there will be a loss in quality. The screenshot in my earlier post suggests that the Amazon app casts to HEOS via Alexa. If so, that will give you a lossless access to My Music.

https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011
Would one need a separate Alexa device for this? Again, I know nothing about Alexa and what is required to set up Amazon Music casting to Heos.

Hopefully, this can be done without the need for a voice assistant, as I have no desire to have one.

5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #85 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
Would one need a separate Alexa device for this? Again, I know nothing about Alexa and what is required to set up Amazon Music casting to Heos.



Hopefully, this can be done without the need for a voice assistant, as I have no desire to have one.
Not sure. You might not need one. I don't activate it by voice, I use the cast icon in the Amazon music app. It looks similar to a Chromecast icon if you're familiar with that.

Try installing the Alexa app on your phone and then see if it will pair with your Marantz AVR.

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post #86 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Not sure. You might not need one. I don't activate it by voice, I use the cast icon in the Amazon music app. It looks similar to a Chromecast icon if you're familiar with that.

Try installing the Alexa app on your phone and then see if it will pair with your Marantz AVR.
OK, I did that am casting from the Amazon Music app to my Marantz AV7704 processor.

Unfortunately, I can't determine the quality (file type, bitrate, and sampling frequency) of the stream in the Heos app because the "i" button is not available when casting. Using the Amazon Music app within Heos allows you to tap "i" to see the file type, bitrate, and sampling frequency.

Also, within the native Amazon Music app with a couple albums I've tested so far, the stream quality drops a level when casting (for example, HD drops to SD and UHD drops to HD), but you can't actually determine the file type, bitrate, and sampling frequency that is being cast.

So, casting is working, but is apparently limiting the stream quality vs. what is natively available in the Amazon Music app.

Using the Amazon Music app within Heos provides the native HD and UHD streams, but no "My Music", unfortunately.

Net, there does not appear to be an ideal implementation of Amazon Music HD with Heos.



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5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #87 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post



Unfortunately, I can't determine the quality (file type, bitrate, and sampling frequency) of the stream in the Heos app because the "i" button is not available when casting. Using the Amazon Music app within Heos allows you to tap "i" to see the file type, bitrate, and sampling frequency.


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This is where I use my ears to determine the quality of the music. They work much better.

If they cannot detect a difference then does it matter?

If it sounds like low quality compressed music its usually immediately obvious. This is harder to notice in a car with low quality system and environment but in the home it only takes a few seconds.
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post #88 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 11:22 AM
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I'm coming from Spotify on Android casting to Chromecast connected to audiophile quality system. I've been waiting for better streaming sound quality that is relatively inexpensive.
I get that Amazon does not want to support the Google Chromecast.
So I've connected my laptop with Dragonfly DAC to my analog preamp,
with a long cord.
Can someone point me to an Android app to use as a remote control for Amazon HD Music desktop app, so I can connect with a short cord? If not available now, is it logical to expect an app like this in the near future?
If not, what is the most economical method to obtain wireless streaming Ultra HD 24 bit to my analog preamp?
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post #89 of 245 Old 09-22-2019, 09:19 PM
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What kinds of sample frequency and bit rate are people getting from Amazon HD Music and UHD Music. So far my best is 48khz and 24bit displayed on Emotiva xmc-1 pre pro via optical from roku ultra+ 4k (2017). Am wondering if october 10, 2019 release of second generation fireTv cube will be better. On hdmi 1.4 it looks like i am limited to 20 bit from the roku.
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post #90 of 245 Old 09-23-2019, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
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Yes thats what high res primarily does, restores dynamic range (difference between the lowest volume levels and highest volume levels in a particular piece of content). It results in more punch.
Ahh no, hi-res does no such thing, it is simply provides a larger "digital bucket" . Perceived or measured acoustical dynamic swings are the function of the recording, or mixing technique regardless of encoding including lossy . I could throw a brick walled master into a 24/96-192 container and none of it's characteristics will change, and why would it. What do happens though is that many recordings gets remixed/mastered that will alter many aspects of the previous master, or restore a butchered one and then gets the higher encoding, however re encoding it to 16/44.1 will lose nothing of that process, and the reason they don't do it these days , so they can sell the "hi-res" to unsuspecting people who just don't know any better or just misinformed. Using 24bit during recording and mastering has it's benefits indeed, but not because of the theoretical increase of DR of the lower levels of the signal which can only be measured but not heard. No commercial recording exists that can come close to challenge 16bits let alone 24bits.
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