What devices will stream Amazon Music HD Lossless - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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What devices will stream Amazon Music HD Lossless

Amazon Music Lossless HD starts today.

Would any device that has Amazon Music stream it? If not, what devices will?
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post #2 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 01:48 PM
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Here you go
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post #3 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:18 PM
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Lossless on the small Amazon Echo speaker is not going to have much impact. Sending it to a premium sound system via Bluetooth will also limit the quality. I just got the Amazon Echo Auto and will try this out this evening via 3.5mm connection to my car stereo head unit.

Regardless, this is very good news.
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post #4 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Lossless on the small Amazon Echo speaker is not going to have much impact. Sending it to a premium sound system via Bluetooth will also limit the quality. I just got the Amazon Echo Auto and will try this out this evening via 3.5mm connection to my car stereo head unit.

Regardless, this is very good news.
I hope to pass it to Denon AVR via HDMI. An Amazon Music rep said a Fire TV Stick 4K would but I am not sure he understood what I was asking.
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post #5 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Lossless on the small Amazon Echo speaker is not going to have much impact. Sending it to a premium sound system via Bluetooth will also limit the quality. I just got the Amazon Echo Auto and will try this out this evening via 3.5mm connection to my car stereo head unit.

Regardless, this is very good news.
Not good news as this is just another site that will not give the provenance of the music files. Their catalog is likely just like everyone else... cd or lower quality that has been upsampled to a bigger package for delivery... just a bunch of extra zeros in the file!
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post #6 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:30 PM
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Not a lot of albums showing so far but still browsing:
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post #7 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
Not good news as this is just another site that will not give the provenance of the music files. Their catalog is likely just like everyone else... cd or lower quality that has been upsampled to a bigger package for delivery... just a bunch of extra zeros in the file!

I'm not as cynical. The proof will be in the listening tests. I'll also be able to test it on my home theater via Bluesound Node (which is the same way I listen to Tidal Hi Res)
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post #8 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I'm not as cynical. The proof will be in the listening tests. I'll also be able to test it on my home theater via Bluesound Node (which is the same way I listen to Tidal Hi Res)
I ran the output through Adobe audition and there was no energy above 21khz in the 20 ultra HD files that I tried.

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post #9 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I added the 90 day trial. My Android phone's Amazon Music got updated. I am streaming to my receiver via Aux-RCA, so I guess the quality depends on the phone's DAC since it is passing analog. My first try is Pink Floyd Dark Side of Moon album. It is at 16 bit 44.1 kHz sample. I guess that is CD level. States my device caps at 24bit 48 kHz so Ill try to find a song at that level.

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post #10 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
I ran the output through Adobe audition and there was no energy above 21khz in the 20 ultra HD files that I tried.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
Are you referring to the sampling frequency? Or the frequency response of the content?

Human hearing is limited to 20 Khz, not sure what you're getting at
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post #11 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I added the 90 day trial. My Android phone's Amazon Music got updated. I am streaming to my receiver via Aux-RCA, so I guess the quality depends on the phone's DAC since it is passing analog. My first try is Pink Floyd Dark Side of Moon album. It is at 16 bit 44.1 kHz sample. I guess that is CD level.
Sounds like you are getting HD (CD quality). Which is still better than any other streaming service aside from Tidal/Qobuz/Deezer. Amazon is saying external DACs are not supported on Android right now, to get the UHD content. Check if your AVR has a native Amazon service which you can control with the AVR's app (example, Denon HEOS)
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post #12 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Check if your AVR has a native Amazon service which you can control with the AVR's app (example, Denon HEOS)

Its a 2015 version, the year before Denon put Amazon Music on them I think.
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post #13 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Sounds like you are getting HD (CD quality).
I wonder if the higher quality stream would make music more dynamic. I just had my receiver at -15 and during a higher dynamics portion of a song, I had to turn it down to almost -25 to get to a comfortable level and it was still louder than the lower volume part of the song at -15.
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post #14 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I am playing Nirvana Nevermind album now. it is labeled as Ultra HD and has 24-bit at 96kHz quality but my phone is limited to 24-bit 48 kHz.

I ordered a Fire TV Stick 4K. Hopefully it will do what ever the Amazon Music HD service can do and will pass it digitally to my receiver via HDMI and let my receiver's DAC decode it.

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post #15 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I found some David Bowie songs at 24-bit 192Khz but cannot stream that high with my phone - hopefully the Fire TV stick will do it.
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post #16 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I wonder if the higher quality stream would make music more dynamic. I just had my receiver at -15 and during a higher dynamics portion of a song, I had to turn it down to almost -25 to get to a comfortable level and it was still louder than the lower volume part of the song at -15.
Yes thats what high res primarily does, restores dynamic range (difference between the lowest volume levels and highest volume levels in a particular piece of content). It results in more punch.
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post #17 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:35 PM
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Streaming Led Zep in 24 bit, 96 KHZ high res via the Denon HEOS app on my Android phone to my Denon AVR.
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post #18 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Streaming Led Zep in 24 bit, 96 KHZ high res via the Denon HEOS app on my Android phone to my Denon AVR.


Did HEOS just do an update to allow hires streaming?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #19 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by george1906 View Post
Did HEOS just do an update to allow hires streaming?


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A question on HEOS please. I am thinking of getting a new Denon for my exercise room. I have trouble with bluetooth, so I would like to get a newer Denon with Amazon Music built into it. If I use it, with HEOS or other ap allow me to control Amazon Music as far as searching, choosing songs etc. on my phone, then the new Denon will play it via its built in Amazon Music not the phone's?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I am playing Nirvana Nevermind album now. it is labeled as Ultra HD and has 24-bit at 96kHz quality but my phone is limited to 24-bit 48 kHz.

I ordered a Fire TV Stick 4K. Hopefully it will do what ever the Amazon Music HD service can do and will pass it digitally to my receiver via HDMI and let my receiver's DAC decode it.
The Amazon Music HD FAQ says that Fire TV will support it

Try playing a high res song on your Android Amazon Music app, and then look for a casting icon to cast it to your AVR. Mine casts via Alexa to the AVR in high res
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post #21 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:56 PM
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I'll be checking this out tonight when I get home on my Marantz 8012 with Heos as well as my Bluesound Node that is connected to my Yamaha 2010.

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post #22 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
A question on HEOS please. I am thinking of getting a new Denon for my exercise room. I have trouble with bluetooth, so I would like to get a newer Denon with Amazon Music built into it. If I use it, with HEOS or other ap allow me to control Amazon Music as far as searching, choosing songs etc. on my phone, then the new Denon will play it via its built in Amazon Music not the phone's?
You'll be able to achieve your goal but not quite the way you explain it. Denon no longer has onboard apps, that's what HEOS does. HEOS effectively controls the services (eg. Amazon) which reside in the cloud, and then stream directly to your AVR. It's a much better architecture as it's not limited to the apps that are installed on your AVR.
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post #23 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Try playing a high res song on your Android Amazon Music app, and then look for a casting icon to cast it to your AVR. Mine casts via Alexa to the AVR in high res
My receiver is too old, I do not think it has it. Yep confirmed, it started with receivers after mine (X4200.) https://usa.denon.com/us/alexa

Denon AVR-X8500HDenon AVR-X6500HDenon AVR-X6400HDenon AVR-X6300HDenon AVR-X4500HDenon AVR-X4400HDenon AVR-X4300HDenon AVR-X3500HDenon AVR-X3400HDenon AVR-X2500HDenon AVR-X2400HDenon AVR-X1500HDenon AVR-X1400HDenon AVR-S940HDenon AVR-S930HDenon AVR-S740HDenon AVR-S730HDenon AVR-S640H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post
I'll be checking this out tonight when I get home on my Marantz 8012 with Heos as well as my Bluesound Node that is connected to my Yamaha 2010.
I've tested the following methods, all work well as far as I can tell:

Amazon via HEOS to my Denon
Amazon via Android app casting to my Denon via Alexa
Amazon via Bluesound to my Denon
Amazon Windows app through Audioquest DAC
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post #25 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 05:00 PM
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Ok. Quick education time...

CD redbook quality is 44.1khz/16 bits. The 16 bits represents the dynamic range or the potential difference between the loudest and softest sound in the file. The 44.1khz in sampling theory represents double the highest potential frequency that can be exactly digitized without loss. Thus 22khz or above "human hearing". The ONLY reasons to record music above 44.1khz/16 bits are:

1. Allow additional headroom for filtering, compression, noise correction, etc.
2. Capture as much energy in the room that might come from sounds that we cannot necessarily hear but may be able to sense.
3. Allow for greater range in the quietest to loudest sounds.

Most recordings to date have been done on equipment that could not even come close to these specifications. For example, the Nirvana album cited above was recorded in early 1991 on a Studer 2" tape machine that is almost identical to the one that you will see in my signature below. The microphones, tape and tape machine used in this recording could not produce more that 10 bits of dynamic range and could only capture frequencies below 18khz when freshly calibrated. All you would need to fully play this back would be a file that is 36khz/10bit. Anything above that would be a bigger file padded with zeros.


According to Amazon, if i were to digitize a record that i was playing back from a 1913 Edison player using a $2 plastic Hasbro microphone at 192khz/24bits, that would be called ULTRA HD quality.


I like TRUE High Resolution recordings that are made with high res microphones using Hi Res DACS and saved with 96khz sampling without using low res mixing/mastering plug-ins. There are very few recordings that are true high resolution. You must generally check with the label. Some of these labels are AIX Records, 2L Records, and Naxos.

I would be surprised if the total number of real high resolution recordings that Amazon offers is above 300 even if they label 2 Million of them that way. This is why knowing the provenance of a recording is so important!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
I've tested the following methods, all work well as far as I can tell:

Amazon via HEOS to my Denon
Amazon via Android app casting to my Denon via Alexa
Amazon via Bluesound to my Denon
Amazon Windows app through Audioquest DAC
Which Denon do you have?
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post #27 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 05:02 PM
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Which Denon do you have?
4400H. If you have an Echo device try casting it. The AVR doesn't necessarily have to have HEOS support.
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
Ok. Quick education time...

CD redbook quality is 44.1khz/16 bits. The 16 bits represents the dynamic range or the potential difference between the loudest and softest sound in the file. The 44.1khz in sampling theory represents double the highest potential frequency that can be exactly digitized without loss. Thus 22khz or above "human hearing".
Thanks. Is the bit a straight dB? 16 bit is a dynamic range of up to 16dB or is it a different scale?
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post #29 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
The Amazon Music HD FAQ says that Fire TV will support it

Try playing a high res song on your Android Amazon Music app, and then look for a casting icon to cast it to your AVR. Mine casts via Alexa to the AVR in high res
Which Fire TV is the question. I wonder why they didn't identify which models, do they mean all Fire TV devices will work? That would be including the 4K Stick, the dongle, the box, displays that run the Fire OS?

Need more data.
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post #30 of 207 Old 09-17-2019, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
Ok. Quick education time...

CD redbook quality is 44.1khz/16 bits. The 16 bits represents the dynamic range or the potential difference between the loudest and softest sound in the file. The 44.1khz in sampling theory represents double the highest potential frequency that can be exactly digitized without loss. Thus 22khz or above "human hearing". The ONLY reasons to record music above 44.1khz/16 bits are:

1. Allow additional headroom for filtering, compression, noise correction, etc.
2. Capture as much energy in the room that might come from sounds that we cannot necessarily hear but may be able to sense.
3. Allow for greater range in the quietest to loudest sounds.

Most recordings to date have been done on equipment that could not even come close to these specifications. For example, the Nirvana album cited above was recorded in early 1991 on a Studer 2" tape machine that is almost identical to the one that you will see in my signature below. The microphones, tape and tape machine used in this recording could not produce more that 10 bits of dynamic range and could only capture frequencies below 18khz when freshly calibrated. All you would need to fully play this back would be a file that is 36khz/10bit. Anything above that would be a bigger file padded with zeros.


According to Amazon, if i were to digitize a record that i was playing back from a 1913 Edison player using a $2 plastic Hasbro microphone at 192khz/24bits, that would be called ULTRA HD quality.


I like TRUE High Resolution recordings that are made with high res microphones using Hi Res DACS and saved with 96khz sampling without using low res mixing/mastering plug-ins. There are very few recordings that are true high resolution. You must generally check with the label. Some of these labels are AIX Records, 2L Records, and Naxos.

I would be surprised if the total number of real high resolution recordings that Amazon offers is above 300 even if they label 2 Million of them that way. This is why knowing the provenance of a recording is so important!
Good info but even if the "high res' content that Amazon is passing off is not true "end to end" high res as you have described, its still an improvement on the lossy streaming that has been available up until now. And high res is really just the gravy, the main advantage is the CD quality content since it represents the vast majority of the available library. Your argument is similar to the Real vs Fake 4K debate in the video field. Even fake 4K is better than 1080P (most of the time)

It's not perfect but as I mentioned earlier, its still good news for consumers.
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