New Nvidia Shield TV Pro announced! Faster SOC, Dolby Vision, new remote! - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 12:34 PM
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What happens in Netflix if you play HDR content that has DV and HDR10 versions yet you don't have a DV display - does it play the HDR10 version, or does it do the same as the AppleTV and play the DV stream through an HDR10 conversion?
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post #662 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 12:59 PM
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What happens in Netflix if you play HDR content that has DV and HDR10 versions yet you don't have a DV display - does it play the HDR10 version, or does it do the same as the AppleTV and play the DV stream through an HDR10 conversion?
If you don't have a DV display you won't see that the content is DV, netflix will just show it with the normal HDR badge. At least that has been the case between my different Roku TV's.
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post #663 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 01:13 PM
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If you don't have a DV display you won't see that the content is DV, netflix will just show it with the normal HDR badge. At least that has been the case between my different Roku TV's.
I'm grateful for the input, but is that from experience of the nVidia netflix player - or are you extrapolating from how the Netflix player works on a different device?
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post #664 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 01:15 PM
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I'm grateful for the input, but is that from experience of the nVidia netflix player - or are you extrapolating from how the Netflix player works on a different device?
Yeah I am commenting on how netflix usually works on other devices.

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post #665 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 01:20 PM
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Yeah I am commenting on how netflix usually works on other devices.
OK, as I say I'm grateful but I'd rather know from folk who have tried this on the Shield. The behaviour on devices isn't always what you'd expect. Why on earth on the ATV4K for example they don't stream the HDR10 version instead of transcoding and giving it screwy "static" metadata is beyond me, but that is the craziness they do...
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post #666 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I'd rather know from folk who have tried this on the Shield.
I've seen requests regarding input stream configuration display (like Amazon X-Ray/dev tools). I haven't seen an answer but I haven't looked in the main thread.
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post #667 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 03:56 PM
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It seemed that the solution was for the Shield to have a better upscaler, and when I saw the new AI upscaling, I thought I finally had the last piece of the puzzle. It works, but not on all content, but worse, now I am reading that if the app will automatically match the frame rate, it will also trigger the Shield to switch to the native resolution of the media as well, which of course will bypass the internal upscaler. This would be great if I wanted to spend over $5k on a good processor, but I bought the new Shield so I wouldn't have to do that.
This is not necessarily true. The latest Plex app beta (and I think the current stable version) can switch refresh rate automatically without switching to the native resolution. The latest plex beta has separate options for automatic refresh rate switching and automatic resolution switching.
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post #668 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 04:02 PM
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This is not necessarily true. The latest Plex app beta (and I think the current stable version) can switch refresh rate automatically without switching to the native resolution. The latest plex beta has separate options for automatic refresh rate switching and automatic resolution switching.
I hope this works out and continues to go in this direction. I would hate to trade off one problem for another.

I haven't noticed refresh rate issues with Plex on the Shield in a long time, but I do see it on FireTV all the time. But I don't pay that much attention unless I am seeing something I don't like. I appreciate that some people here spend a lot of time worrying about whether the show they are watching is being played with all the features, but sometimes I wonder why they can't just watch it and if they can't tell if a feature is off, just assume it is on... If it is good enough that you can't tell, then why do you need to verify?
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post #669 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 04:21 PM
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OK, as I say I'm grateful but I'd rather know from folk who have tried this on the Shield. The behaviour on devices isn't always what you'd expect. Why on earth on the ATV4K for example they don't stream the HDR10 version instead of transcoding and giving it screwy "static" metadata is beyond me, but that is the craziness they do...
Netflix doesn't offer versions of media that aren't supported by your video chain. So if you set your Shield to 1080p, you won't even see 4k versions of movies in the menu any more. Likewise, they won't offer a DV if your display doesn't support it. I don't have DV on my projector or on my living room TV and I have never seen a DV offering on anything on the Shield, including Netflix and Amazon.
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
Netflix doesn't offer versions of media that aren't supported by your video chain.
The point being made is this is not true on the AppleTV4K. In that case if Netflix has a DoVi asset and an HDR-10 asset it will send the DoVi to any supported HDR display. The ATV4K converts DoVi to HDR-10 if needed. Hence questions about seeing the actual input stream like you can on the ATV4K. Personally I think this is something providers choose to do and I can't imagine they would do the same on any other platform.

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post #671 of 4628 Old 11-04-2019, 11:53 PM
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The point being made is this is not true on the AppleTV4K. In that case if Netflix has a DoVi asset and an HDR-10 asset it will send the DoVi to any supported HDR display. The ATV4K converts DoVi to HDR-10 if needed. Hence questions about seeing the actual input stream like you can on the ATV4K. Personally I think this is something providers choose to do and I can't imagine they would do the same on any other platform.
As above. I guess the original question is divided into two parts:
1) Does the Shield Netflix app report HDR10 vs DV correctly in the UI per your display capabilities, and offer HDR for all content in the library
2) If you play back content which has DV available, yet display is HDR10, can you be certain it is the HDR10 stream being played back, and not the DV stream via a conversion process to HDR10? Without eg. the developer HUD on the AppleTV you wouldn't be able to be sure, though the "odd" metadata behaviour might give you a clue.

One other unfortunate aspect of the AppleTV is that if there is only an HDR10 asset available, and no DV asset, I believe on the AppleTV you won't get HDR playback offered at all for that title. One Netflix title I noticed this with the other day was Top Boy, which is 25fps and available in HDR10 on Samsung UHD players, but the AppleTV only plays it in SDR.

Hopefully the app on the Shield, having evolved from and HDR10 based app, has just added support for DV, instead of replacing parts of HDR10 support with DV. would be nice to know for sure though.
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post #672 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 02:42 AM
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As above. I guess the original question is divided into two parts:
1) Does the Shield Netflix app report HDR10 vs DV correctly in the UI per your display capabilities, and offer HDR for all content in the library
2) If you play back content which has DV available, yet display is HDR10, can you be certain it is the HDR10 stream being played back, and not the DV stream via a conversion process to HDR10? Without eg. the developer HUD on the AppleTV you wouldn't be able to be sure, though the "odd" metadata behaviour might give you a clue.

One other unfortunate aspect of the AppleTV is that if there is only an HDR10 asset available, and no DV asset, I believe on the AppleTV you won't get HDR playback offered at all for that title. One Netflix title I noticed this with the other day was Top Boy, which is 25fps and available in HDR10 on Samsung UHD players, but the AppleTV only plays it in SDR.

Hopefully the app on the Shield, having evolved from and HDR10 based app, has just added support for DV, instead of replacing parts of HDR10 support with DV. would be nice to know for sure though.
Top Boy shows as Dolby Vision/Dolby Atmos on my Apple TV 4K. I'm pretty sure Netflix doesn't have any HDR10 only titles, everything they do has Dolby Vision (as well as HDR10 for devices without DV support).
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post #673 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 06:30 AM
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Top Boy shows as Dolby Vision/Dolby Atmos on my Apple TV 4K. I'm pretty sure Netflix doesn't have any HDR10 only titles, everything they do has Dolby Vision (as well as HDR10 for devices without DV support).
That's interesting, must have changed since I last tried (or something else odd happened in my setup at the point I was testing). Appreciate the feedback.
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post #674 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 06:43 AM
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Top Boy shows as Dolby Vision/Dolby Atmos on my Apple TV 4K. I'm pretty sure Netflix doesn't have any HDR10 only titles, everything they do has Dolby Vision (as well as HDR10 for devices without DV support).


I want to say I still see standard HDR titles on the new shield. I'd have to confirm that.

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post #675 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 08:50 AM
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So, I did get the Shield today. The upscaling is on par with Darbee to my eyes and is a substantial win for streaming
clarity of 720/1080 feeds. Overall I’m pretty impressed with this little electronic snausage. It does everything my
AppleTV or Firestick does and arguably better. The built in Chromecast is a boon, the interface response is snappy,
and options are plentiful and varied for enthusiasts. The only thing it doesn’t do is the Apple event app and AppleTV+
(which judging from the reviews and the sampling of the two shows I watched is more like a minus.) Suffice to say
the Snappel4K is going on Craigs and/or Fleabay manana.
’more thoughts on my new (hot dog version) Shield:

- The AI (on high setting) is superior to Darbee IMHO. There are a couple of seconds delay before it ‘kicks in’, but it can really produce a eyebrow raising quality (especially with HD video - as opposited to film) that I never really got with my the numerous Darbs’ I’ve had.

- There IS a manual beta anti-judder frame rate match setting (ATV has an auto setting) that you can map to a button on the remote/app (a really good explanation here.)

- The app remote lets you toggle between swipepad/trackpad/dpad.

- Google assistant with visuals on screen - 😎.
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’more thoughts on my new (hot dog version) Shield:

- The AI (on high setting) is superior to Darbee IMHO. There are a couple of seconds delay before it ‘kicks in’, but it can really produce a eyebrow raising quality (especially with HD video - as opposited to film) that I never really got with my the numerous Darbs’ I’ve had.

- There IS a manual beta anti-judder frame rate match setting (ATV has an auto setting) that you can map to a button on the remote/app (a really good explanation here.)

- The app remote lets you toggle between swipepad/trackpad/dpad.

- Google assistant with visuals on screen - 😎.
I set AI to high and it does not look good compared to Darbee. The EE on AI, does not look good at all.
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post #677 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 09:04 AM
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I set AI to high and it does not look good compared to Darbee. The EE on AI, does not look good at all.
Thanks, I will try the other settings.

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post #678 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 09:23 AM
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Anyone have this new Shield Pro that runs it from a different room? I use the FLIRC now that is mounted into a wall plate and hard wired back to my Shield. Wondering what the new Shield is like for those that have an AV rack in another room.
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post #679 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 09:48 AM
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I am reading that if the app will automatically match the frame rate, it will also trigger the Shield to switch to the native resolution of the media as well, which of course will bypass the internal upscaler. This would be great if I wanted to spend over $5k on a good processor, but I bought the new Shield so I wouldn't have to do that.

I hope in the end the developers figure out that they need to have the support to allow the app to set the output of the Shield to whatever the app decides. And that developers implement this by leaving the option available to choose whether to let the Shield upscale or send the native resolution, along with sending the media in the right frame rate and color space.
Could I ask for clarification - I have an external processor/scaler and would be interested in having the Shield bypass the internal scaler & output native resolution (assuming 1080p) so I can use my Lumagen to scale.

Is the behavior that you described a function of the Shield itself or the individual streaming apps? If the latter, which apps allow this native resolution output?

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post #680 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 09:54 AM
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Could I ask for clarification - I have an external processor/scaler and would be interested in having the Shield bypass the scaler & output native resolution (assuming 1080p).
Is the behavior that you described a function of the Shield itself or the individual streaming apps? If the latter, which apps allow this native resolution output?
My understanding is that it is a function of the application.

My experience has been that if I set the Shield to 4k in the HDMI settings, it is going to output 4k no matter the source. But I have seen a few posts that claim that when the application switches the frame rate, the resolution also switches with it. For 1080p content, this would switch the Shield output from 4k to 1080p and of course deliver 1080p content unmolested to the next device in your chain.

Others have stated that this can be selected based on the app, which is good. However, most apps don't have this level of control, so I fear that some apps may gain the ability to tell the shield what frame rate to use, and the Shield will automatically change resolution too.

This is speculation, I have not witnessed this happening yet, and so far I just set the Shield to 60hz and it seems to play my content just fine, no matter the actual frame rate.
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post #681 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
My understanding is that it is a function of the application.

My experience has been that if I set the Shield to 4k in the HDMI settings, it is going to output 4k no matter the source. But I have seen a few posts that claim that when the application switches the frame rate, the resolution also switches with it. For 1080p content, this would switch the Shield output from 4k to 1080p and of course deliver 1080p content unmolested to the next device in your chain.

Others have stated that this can be selected based on the app, which is good. However, most apps don't have this level of control, so I fear that some apps may gain the ability to tell the shield what frame rate to use, and the Shield will automatically change resolution too.

This is speculation, I have not witnessed this happening yet, and so far I just set the Shield to 60hz and it seems to play my content just fine, no matter the actual frame rate.
With my 2017 Shield, it is the apps that control resolution and framerate matching, not the Shield. I use both Kodi and MrMC, and both will match resolutions 720p or higher, and any framerate my display supports. I've heard that Plex has some limited functionality in this area, but I seldom use Plex on my home network, so can't speak to it. Other than that, I no of no other app that does both. Not saying there aren't any, just I'm not aware of them.

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With my 2017 Shield, it is the apps that control resolution and framerate matching, not the Shield. I use both Kodi and MrMC, and both will match resolutions 720p or higher, and any framerate my display supports. I've heard that Plex has some limited functionality in this area, but I seldom use Plex on my home network, so can't speak to it. Other than that, I no of no other app that does both. Not saying there aren't any, just I'm not aware of them.
There is a beta version of the Plex player that now enables resolution switching. I've got it to drop down to 720p on a few old DVD rips I own.

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With my 2017 Shield, it is the apps that control resolution and framerate matching, not the Shield. I use both Kodi and MrMC, and both will match resolutions 720p or higher, and any framerate my display supports. I've heard that Plex has some limited functionality in this area, but I seldom use Plex on my home network, so can't speak to it. Other than that, I no of no other app that does both. Not saying there aren't any, just I'm not aware of them.
The last time I used Kodi, the frame rate would match but the shield still kicked out 4k, not 1080p, when playing a 1080p movie. No matter what I threw at the shield, the receiver reported 4k coming in, and passed that to the projector at 4k. But that was about 18 months ago, so it could be different now. Plex, Netflix, and Amazon all seem to be adjusting frame rate properly, but resolution out of the shield remains at 4k as of the last time I checked (a few months ago). This made the idea of using an upscaler outside of the shield a pain, because I would have to switch manually to 1080p to get 1080p, and once switched, I lost 4k options in Netflix and Amazon, and plex transcoded down to 1080p when playing 4k.

This is one reason I bought the new Shield, so it could just do the upscaling internally and continue to send 4k for everything. Now that I am relying on the Shield to do this, I need it to do this all the time. I don't want it to start sending 1080p and have the JVC projector upscale as it is not good at it.

I use Plex instead of Kodi so I don't have to have Shields at every TV (last count was 7 TV's, lol, and that gets expensive). Instead I use FireTV sticks for the rest of the house, and with Kodi, half my content was unwatchable, either due to frame rate matching that the FireTV struggled with, the inability to play content over 35mbps (i.e. no direct 4k UHD), or codec issues (VC-1 doesn't work at all). Plex can just transcode it all for those TV's, and in the theater the shield handles it all direct with no issues. The only caveat to date is that the shield has to do the upscaling. That isn't a problem any more.
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post #684 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 11:15 AM
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The last time I used Kodi, the frame rate would match but the shield still kicked out 4k, not 1080p, when playing a 1080p movie. No matter what I threw at the shield, the receiver reported 4k coming in, and passed that to the projector at 4k. But that was about 18 months ago, so it could be different now. Plex, Netflix, and Amazon all seem to be adjusting frame rate properly, but resolution out of the shield remains at 4k as of the last time I checked (a few months ago). This made the idea of using an upscaler outside of the shield a pain, because I would have to switch manually to 1080p to get 1080p, and once switched, I lost 4k options in Netflix and Amazon, and plex transcoded down to 1080p when playing 4k.

This is one reason I bought the new Shield, so it could just do the upscaling internally and continue to send 4k for everything. Now that I am relying on the Shield to do this, I need it to do this all the time. I don't want it to start sending 1080p and have the JVC projector upscale as it is not good at it.

I use Plex instead of Kodi so I don't have to have Shields at every TV (last count was 7 TV's, lol, and that gets expensive). Instead I use FireTV sticks for the rest of the house, and with Kodi, half my content was unwatchable, either due to frame rate matching that the FireTV struggled with, the inability to play content over 35mbps (i.e. no direct 4k UHD), or codec issues (VC-1 doesn't work at all). Plex can just transcode it all for those TV's, and in the theater the shield handles it all direct with no issues. The only caveat to date is that the shield has to do the upscaling. That isn't a problem any more.
Resolution switching on the Shield, no matter the generation, always worked with Kodi, SPMC. MrMC and the Beta version of the Plex Player allow this feature to work as well.

Earlier on, there was a trick to allow for Netflix to change the resolution of your display, but that has since been removed.
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post #685 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 11:27 AM
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Resolution switching on the Shield, no matter the generation, always worked with Kodi, SPMC. MrMC and the Beta version of the Plex Player allow this feature to work as well.

Earlier on, there was a trick to allow for Netflix to change the resolution of your display, but that has since been removed.
I didn't use Kodi for long after the new 4k theater became functional because of the issues with other TV's in the house prompted the change to Plex, so most of my experience with 4k is that the shield just doesn't switch resolution. Prior to this theater, I used Kodi exclusively with my old 1080p theater, and resolution switching was pretty seamless in the "old HD days". So I must have just assumed that all apps couldn't change resolution and the Shield just upscaled them all.

Either way, Plex only makes up about 60% of my viewing in the theater. And now that there is better upscaling, I am relying on Shield to do it all. The last thing I want is for all my apps to start switching and using the JVC for upscaling.

Thanks for helping to clear some of this up.
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post #686 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 11:54 AM
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I posted my initial impressions of the 2019 Pro :

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post58779752
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post #687 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 01:43 PM
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Please tell me how to know that the Plex's version of my Shield 19. If I don't have the beta version yet, how to update?


Thanks,


Can Doan

Pana 60ST60, Onkyo TX-NR3009, OPPO BDP-103, Klipsch WF-35, Klipsch WS-24, Klipsch WC-24, Klipsch Reference RW-12d, BIC America DV62si.
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post #688 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner89 View Post
Man it's like nvidia intentionally makes it difficult to impossible to use attached storage. After getting constant playback stoppages last night due to network errors (which still makes no sense to me, wifi analayzer shows 800mbps+ network speed), and deciding I don't feel like spending money on solutions that "might" work i.e. moca or powerline adapters, I decided to just unplug my USB HDD from my router and connect it directly to the shield. After a bunch of forum searches I was finally able to connect to the Shield over the network and map it as a network drive. I moved all my media collection to the NVIDIA_SHIELD folder so I can write to it. Tested it by transferring a video file aaaaandd...it fails 100% of the time. Any time I try to transfer a large the network location becomes unresponsive. What a pain in the ass that was for nothing. Now I am back to square one. Honestly I am tempted to just give up on PC gaming entirely as these days I don't have much time for it anyway and move my modem to the living room.
You could setup LibreElec/Kodi image on RPi, share it's library then keep it headless. Their's OpenMediaVault (NAS) for Pi as another option too.
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post #689 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 05:12 PM
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I have been using moca for a few years and I can unconditionally state, it works.. not sometimes not maybe.. it just works. You won’t get exactly gigabit speeds but its pretty close (650-800 mbps) and that plenty for streaming ultra Hd.
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post #690 of 4628 Old 11-05-2019, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamah Khan View Post
I have been using moca for a few years and I can unconditionally state, it works.. not sometimes not maybe.. it just works. You won’t get exactly gigabit speeds but its pretty close (650-800 mbps) and that plenty for streaming ultra Hd.
Yeah moca seems like the perfect solution for me. I know that my cable signal from Spectrum does come out of both coax outlets in my living room and bedroom (if that matters at all). I just don't know enough to determine if it'll work in my apartment and haven't been motivated enough to put in the time and money it would take to find out.
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