Netflix 5.1 Needs DD+ so Soundbar/AVR choices. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 12-02-2019, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
6volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Netflix 5.1 Needs DD+ so Soundbar/AVR choices.

I think it is ironic that to receive the venerable 5.1, one has to have DD+ which in Samsung soundbars, the HW-Q60R (according to samsung.com online specs) does NOT have. The HW-Q70R DOES according to them.

So that looks like DD+ is not available in "lower" $500 models. It seems (as far as Samsung is concerned) that DD+ is found w/ATMOS bars.

That puts me OUT OF BUSINESS - it's beyond my budget.

To get Netflix 5.1, now I have to confirm DD+ specs on everything I look at to be a "basic 5.1" surround.

QUESTION: Do all AVR's have DD+?
QUESTION: Any chance of a soundbar with Q60R features with DD+? at the $277 Q60R price?


NOTE: It's a good thing I didn't buy a Q60R, I was on the fence and fortunately procrastinated enough to discover this limitation.

This also means my venerable but functional RCA RT2760 with only the optical input needs upgrading.
QUESTION: Are there any HDMI to Digital Optical DD+ to 5.1 converters w/HDCP 2.2 out there?
6volt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 12-03-2019, 01:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Worf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,314
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 861 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Pretty much any AVR with HD codecs will support DD+. We're talking about a codec that's been available for nearly 15 years now (it was used during the HD disc wars).

Unfortunately, DD+ cannot be carried over optical so you must be using HDMI.
Worf is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 12-03-2019, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Pretty much any AVR with HD codecs will support DD+. We're talking about a codec that's been available for nearly 15 years now (it was used during the HD disc wars).

Unfortunately, DD+ cannot be carried over optical so you must be using HDMI.

You don't have to have HD codec support to have DD+ 5.1 decoding. I have the Vizio SB 3651 sound bar. It has a wireless subwoofer with rear speakers wired to it. It's a 5.1 system w/ HDMI input and ARC. It has an LED that lights for successful decoding of DD and DTS. It does not support HD codecs, but it takes the DD/DTS 'core' from the signal to provide 5.1. When I send it DD+ over HDMI, the DD LED comes on, and it's 5.1.
Tfid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 12-03-2019, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
6volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 15
OK, so AVR's are pretty much compatible. But that sure leaves a big "compatibility hole" in soundbars.

I guess with Netflix offering ATMOS sound, they decided to drop the "legacy 5.1 optical."

This really irks me because I was all set to buy a Samsung 5.1 HW-Q60R sound beaming soundbar. It was $500 list and being offered for $279 everywhere on Cyber Monay. Just checked (Tuesday noon), they're $399 everywhere now.
6volt is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
6volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfid View Post
You don't have to have HD codec support to have DD+ 5.1 decoding. I have the Vizio SB 3651 sound bar. It has a wireless subwoofer with rear speakers wired to it. It's a 5.1 system w/ HDMI input and ARC. It has an LED that lights for successful decoding of DD and DTS. It does not support HD codecs, but it takes the DD/DTS 'core' from the signal to provide 5.1. When I send it DD+ over HDMI, the DD LED comes on, and it's 5.1.
"When I send it DD+ over HDMI..." are you talking about Netflix or some other source?

Supposedly DD+ is not available through ARC either which is only the same as Optical (I definitely read that ARC has the same bandwidth as Optical so what was the point of limiting HDMI ARC???.

However, since it is HDMI, maybe that is where the DD+ to DD5.1 extraction/conversion is done. I believe I have read that not all components perform this "extraction."

BIG QUESTION: Has anyone gotten Netflix DD5.1 via Optical?
6volt is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Stephen Hopkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Douglasville, GA
Posts: 4,217
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post
BIG QUESTION: Has anyone gotten Netflix DD5.1 via Optical?
There are a handful of older Roku devices that will transcode DD+5.1 to DD5.1 over optical... I think the first-gen Ultra will do it, but that should be verified before purchasing.

BenQ TK800 | Silver Ticket 106" 16:9 1.0 Grey | Marantz SR6011 | B&W P6 | B&W CDMC SE | Sonance .5 THX SUR | MCM In-Ceiling Atmos | Ascendant Avalanche 12" in 6 ft^3 @ 18Hz w/ BASH 500w Plate Amp | Sony X800 | NVidia Shield TV Pro | XBox One 500gb | Nintendo Switch | Harmony Smart Control | SmartThings Hub | Google Home | AT&T Fiber 300 | YouTube TV | Netflix | HBO Now | Spotify
Stephen Hopkins is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 01:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post
"When I send it DD+ over HDMI..." are you talking about Netflix or some other source?

Supposedly DD+ is not available through ARC either which is only the same as Optical (I definitely read that ARC has the same bandwidth as Optical so what was the point of limiting HDMI ARC???.

However, since it is HDMI, maybe that is where the DD+ to DD5.1 extraction/conversion is done. I believe I have read that not all components perform this "extraction."

BIG QUESTION: Has anyone gotten Netflix DD5.1 via Optical?

I used Vudu on the Nvidia Shield. Vudu uses DD+ instead of TrueHD to contain Atmos encoding, so if a vid says 'Atmos' then it it's using DD+. My TV is a Sony x900e (2017), so it supports DD+ over HDMI. I thought optical didn't support DD+, but HDMI does.

This link may help or send you to info that will be useful to your situation.
https://developer.dolby.com/blog/dol...art-3-reality/
Tfid is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
6volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfid View Post
I used Vudu on the Nvidia Shield. Vudu uses DD+ instead of TrueHD to contain Atmos encoding, so if a vid says 'Atmos' then it it's using DD+. My TV is a Sony x900e (2017), so it supports DD+ over HDMI. I thought optical didn't support DD+, but HDMI does.

This link may help or send you to info that will be useful to your situation.
https://developer.dolby.com/blog/dol...art-3-reality/
Yes, definitely no DD+ over Optical.
However, I've found one claim that ARC also does not support DD+, only what was available through Optical.

When Optical output came out, it matured as far as chipset went. Then along came DD+. I doubt if Optical technology was changed to accommodate only DD+5.1 since DD+ is used for all the HD types.

However, HDMI ARC is another story. First, WHY IN THE WORLD did they limit bit rate to that of Optical? Perhaps since HD formats didn't exist?

  • If you want HD audio, you route Source to AVR, then AVR to TV.
  • Routing ARC to AVR (or ATMOS soundbar) would result in no HD audio.
  • If no AVR AND ATMOS soundbar, I believe you route Source to Bar, Bar to TV (bars claim "4K Passthrough")
  • WORST CASE: If Source = Smart TV, I suppose it is up to the manufacturer whether to output DD+ HD from a TV App like Netflix. Worst case is you have ATMOS sound system and want to get DD+ ATMOS from your TV via the Netflix App. I wouldn't hold my breath for that one - at least not until ATSC 3.0 comes out.


I'd love to see some class action lawsuit filed against all these manufacturers for rackateering with regards to connect standards that don't allow use of components and legal legitimate content.
6volt is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 03:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post
Yes, definitely no DD+ over Optical.
However, I've found one claim that ARC also does not support DD+, only what was available through Optical.

When Optical output came out, it matured as far as chipset went. Then along came DD+. I doubt if Optical technology was changed to accommodate only DD+5.1 since DD+ is used for all the HD types.

However, HDMI ARC is another story. First, WHY IN THE WORLD did they limit bit rate to that of Optical? Perhaps since HD formats didn't exist?

  • If you want HD audio, you route Source to AVR, then AVR to TV.
  • Routing ARC to AVR (or ATMOS soundbar) would result in no HD audio.
  • If no AVR AND ATMOS soundbar, I believe you route Source to Bar, Bar to TV (bars claim "4K Passthrough")
  • WORST CASE: If Source = Smart TV, I suppose it is up to the manufacturer whether to output DD+ HD from a TV App like Netflix. Worst case is you have ATMOS sound system and want to get DD+ ATMOS from your TV via the Netflix App. I wouldn't hold my breath for that one - at least not until ATSC 3.0 comes out.


I'd love to see some class action lawsuit filed against all these manufacturers for rackateering with regards to connect standards that don't allow use of components and legal legitimate content.

TVs after 2016 do support DD+ over ARC. I think DD+ does not = HD audio. Isn't that why DD+ is used at all is to reduce the bandwidth requirement for Atmos? Also I consider an AVR and a sound bar to be the same thing.
Tfid is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 12-04-2019, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
6volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tfid View Post
TVs after 2016 do support DD+ over ARC. I think DD+ does not = HD audio. Isn't that why DD+ is used at all is to reduce the bandwidth requirement for Atmos? Also I consider an AVR and a sound bar to be the same thing.
Looks like my TV doesn't have DD+ via ARC since was purchased Black Friday 2015 (Hisense 55H7B) This is perplexing because IF the component is not compatible, the "5.1" box in the Netflix title info will not appear - my PC does not have 5.1 and it does not appear. So if it appears in my Hisense and it does not have DD+ THEN ????????

I suppose the best thing is to try to find someone that has successfully obtained 5.1 from my model TV.

I am by no means expert on this complex technology. But I knew that at least 5 years ago, ARC had limited bandwidth equivalent to Optical which was considered totally inadequate for the HD audio formats.

Also discovered Netflix LIED TO ME! They said I need 3 mbs for DD+5.1 and some ridiculous number like 10 or 20 mbs for ATMOS. Their website says 3 mbs for ATMOS. Further, their website says "5.1 components" are required and nothing about DD+.

So is the online info old and out-of-date? Try and get a straight answer....

UPDATE: Just found some news articles about Netflix and ATMOS. In 2016 they did the DD+ thing and guess what, that coincides with DD+ via ARC. They have an ATMOS bit rate of 768 (don't remember units) and increased 5.1 from 190 to 640. So I guess Digital Optical and Coax are DEAD. R.I.P.

Last edited by 6volt; 12-04-2019 at 04:42 PM.
6volt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off