New TIVO 4K Streaming Dongle Coming In April - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 21Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 07:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
It's a 50 dollar streamer, it's not a Roku Ultra, Nvida Shield, or an Apple TV. People want more than 50 dollar performance not happening. You get what you pay for. A number of people also have no idea how Sling TV works on the device. NOTE: This mostly refers to people outside of AVS, here people seem to be a little more tech savy.
The Xiaomi Mi Box 2016 is about the same price range and works much better than this, and is almost 5 years old.

It's disappointing that there's no perfect streaming box. NVidia Shield comes pretty close, but it's missing VP9 profile 2 support, so no HDR in Youtube. The search continues I guess.
Karelia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 08:54 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 12,169
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Liked: 585
As far as I know, there is no Android TV boxes support VP9.2 or YT HDR yet even though many come with the chipset that claims VP9.2 support.

As for Shield, aside from YT DHR, it is also missing HLG support that many other much cheaper boxes like MiBox do support. When we eventually get to the 4K broadcasting age, HLG will be the only format supported by live broadcasting. The other HDR formats are not suitable for such tasks.
Foxbat121 is offline  
post #63 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 01:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 3,631
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Couple things I didn't see anyone else mention:

1) USB-C gigabit ethernet adapters do work (mine is Asix USB 2.0 based) but I had some trouble getting it online. Then it suddenly started working. Not sure which of these fixed it but here are some of the things I changed: put a USB hub between USB-C port and adapter, enabled Android developer options, toggled wifi on/off with the adapter connected, some reboots.

2) You can manually force the HDMI format to 23.976 but there are some issues with it. Frame stutter every few seconds. Don't see that with default 59.940 (other than usual 3:2 judder). No way to auto switch framerate unless someone figures out how to root it.

3) Remote has no dedicated rwd, pause, fwd buttons so navigating most video apps sucks. You have to click on on-screen icons for these functions.

4) No way to defeat forced HDR conversion on everything if your display reports HDR capability. Something is definitely off about the image quality. I will run some test patterns later to confirm.

5) Menu options for DTS-HD and True HD but I've only been able to get DD+ and DTS bitstream output working.

6) My first gen legacy dual OTA HDHomerun stutters and freezes using either Live Channels or HDHomerun apps. Maybe issues with mpeg2 decoder or deinterlacing support.

Overall, it's same buggy crap as most generic android tv boxes. At least it's licensed so you get DRM app support from Netflix, etc. I would avoid until there are confirmed fixes released for some of these issues.
Wizziwig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 03:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
home_theatre_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

4) No way to defeat forced HDR conversion on everything if your display reports HDR capability. Something is definitely off about the image quality. I will run some test patterns later to confirm.

5) Menu options for DTS-HD and True HD but I've only been able to get DD+ and DTS bitstream output working.
BT.709 color is off on the HDR conversion, among other things. I didn't make it very far into my library of patterns before deciding to wait for a later build.

I did briefly plug it into an 1.4 display and noticed a significant loss of steps near black, but didn't investigate. Again, waiting for a later build.

EDIT: It turns out this was due to a setting in the display, not the Stream 4K.

I affirm your experience with lossless audio. I've read that the hardware does not support it, but that information is old and may be inaccurate.

Chase Walton
Technical Editor
PMI, Ltd. / MSR, Inc.

Home Theater Design and Calibration Insider

My comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of PMI, Ltd. or MSR, Inc.


Last edited by home_theatre_man; 05-14-2020 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Correction
home_theatre_man is offline  
post #65 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 03:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
brotony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Couple things I didn't see anyone else mention:



1) USB-C gigabit ethernet adapters do work (mine is Asix USB 2.0 based) but I had some trouble getting it online. Then it suddenly started working. Not sure which of these fixed it but here are some of the things I changed: put a USB hub between USB-C port and adapter, enabled Android developer options, toggled wifi on/off with the adapter connected, some reboots.



2) You can manually force the HDMI format to 23.976 but there are some issues with it. Frame stutter every few seconds. Don't see that with default 59.940 (other than usual 3:2 judder). No way to auto switch framerate unless someone figures out how to root it.



3) Remote has no dedicated rwd, pause, fwd buttons so navigating most video apps sucks. You have to click on on-screen icons for these functions.



4) No way to defeat forced HDR conversion on everything if your display reports HDR capability. Something is definitely off about the image quality. I will run some test patterns later to confirm.



5) Menu options for DTS-HD and True HD but I've only been able to get DD+ and DTS bitstream output working.



6) My first gen legacy dual OTA HDHomerun stutters and freezes using either Live Channels or HDHomerun apps. Maybe issues with mpeg2 decoder or deinterlacing support.



Overall, it's same buggy crap as most generic android tv boxes. At least it's licensed so you get DRM app support from Netflix, etc. I would avoid until there are confirmed fixes released for some of these issues.
There are CEC, framerate and dynamic range settings that will launch onscreen when using adblink app. It's in another forum (TiVo community for this device) so I won't link it here.

I do agree it's a mess because though these settings are reachable with the developer settings and an external compatible device and app, the same procedure would be required again, like when rebooting. I so dislike unsticky redundant methods like this; not ideal. I'd much prefer out of the box UI settings and solutions.

But worthy of mention for those that have this device. I've used that app along with a tutorial like in that thread on the Fire 4KS but it's the same disappointment having to repeat so often. People don't want to buy boxes to personalize this way; legal settings should be in the settings menu.

I did notice someone posted that TiVo support says do not hookup an Ethernet adapter. First I've heard of an Android TV box maker saying such? Ethernet shouldn't require a dongle; as Ethernet specs improve, latest compatibility should be included. Not everyone is going to want to use WiFi. Most that can use either will prefer Ethernet.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
brotony is online now  
post #66 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 03:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
As far as I know, there is no Android TV boxes support VP9.2 or YT HDR yet even though many come with the chipset that claims VP9.2 support.

As for Shield, aside from YT DHR, it is also missing HLG support that many other much cheaper boxes like MiBox do support. When we eventually get to the 4K broadcasting age, HLG will be the only format supported by live broadcasting. The other HDR formats are not suitable for such tasks.
My Hisense H9F supports Youtube HDR and it has a pretty weak chip. It's crazy that a $200 device does not support VP9.2 or HLG.
Karelia is offline  
post #67 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 06:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Matt L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Flushing, MI
Posts: 6,144
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 682
At this point I've unplugged it, it's greedy and any input I start to watch it demands it be switched to tivo. I'll be watching here for word on new software, but for now it's dead to me.

Quite honestly I do not know how a major company could release it with such an obvious bug, I guess we are Alpha testers.
Matt L is offline  
post #68 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 06:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
brotony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
At this point I've unplugged it, it's greedy and any input I start to watch it demands it be switched to tivo. I'll be watching here for word on new software, but for now it's dead to me.

Quite honestly I do not know how a major company could release it with such an obvious bug, I guess we are Alpha testers.
Rumors say Google is working on the same approach but baked in at the software level. I sure hope Google does more than bring a remote to the streaming scene.

If ALL rumors are true and game changing, I'd spend the rumored $80 on that but not before confirming some truths. The actual developer model from last year is impressing to have HDMI 2.1 and a remote.

I anticipated a better device from TiVo but now it's the Chromecast Ultra 2 or whatever Google calls it that I'm looking forward to. Just anticipation though; I've been burned too many times by Android TV already. Had one of this first Sony models that Google abandoned updates due to hardware limitations and Fire TV devices have been disappointing too. Never considered the Chromecast because a remote is a must.

Any Android TV device needs to have realized potential before a buy, IMO. How about guaranteed updates for so many years like Apple TV buyers have enjoyed? Dumping an unfinished device on consumers and abandoning isn't good for buyers. I'm wary of another buy and also refrain from returning a disappointing device though I keep original packaging for some time by default. Each time, return period passed before I realized improvements weren't coming. Buggy out of the box, buggy until abandoned. There's always a new one coming.

I bought the ATV4K; also got one for each TV. I love the device and regular updates but app updates are getting buggy with Hulu, Philo, Tennis TV, ESPN, Sling and Pluto. The latter 3 have been missing screensaver capability like they're overridden. That's annoying and Apple claims they have no control of app developers overriding screensaver. And I dislike live TV launching by default. The Apple TV app hasn't been much use with its bugs; best to not use it, I guess. It wasn't consistently keeping up with episodes watched when had interest in it. I hope Google is paying attention if they want to shake up the streaming market.

Edit: I checked Pluto with my ATV4K again. What I thought was wrong with that app on it is not there now.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Last edited by brotony; 05-14-2020 at 10:59 PM.
brotony is online now  
post #69 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 09:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
koan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
3) Remote has no dedicated rwd, pause, fwd buttons so navigating most video apps sucks. You have to click on on-screen icons for these functions.
The navigation control circle in the center of the remote is supposed to change to playback control when watching video, so that the center button is used to pause, the left side rewinds, and the right side fast-forwards. However, Tivo says "Availability of playback controls depends on the show and streaming apps."
koan is offline  
post #70 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 10:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
home_theatre_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by brotony View Post
There are CEC, framerate and dynamic range settings that will launch onscreen when using adblink app. It's in another forum (TiVo community for this device) so I won't link it here.
Thanks for the lead.

After removing the forced HDR and looking at SDR BT.709 RGB and YCbCr output, BT.709 colors are still not reproduced correctly.

SDR range near black looks good; did not check SDR white clipping or HDR range.

Netflix and Plex automatically trigger HDR (not DoVi), but Prime does not.

HDR color is correct.

Plex does not change frame rates, even with Plex and Stream 4K set to support dynamic frame rate.
brotony likes this.

Chase Walton
Technical Editor
PMI, Ltd. / MSR, Inc.

Home Theater Design and Calibration Insider

My comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of PMI, Ltd. or MSR, Inc.

home_theatre_man is offline  
post #71 of 80 Old 05-14-2020, 10:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
brotony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post
Thanks for the lead.



After removing the forced HDR and looking at SDR BT.709 RGB and YCbCr output, BT.709 colors are still not reproduced correctly.



SDR range near black looks good; did not check SDR white clipping or HDR range.



Netflix and Plex automatically trigger HDR (not DoVi), but Prime does not.



HDR color is correct.



Plex does not change frame rates, even with Plex and Stream 4K set to support dynamic frame rate.
I don't have this device. Interesting.

I've also read there's something wrong with DV. Does disabling DV help any with your color space errors? I think I read that that color is better without DV, even when looking at a TV with lesser specs that shouldn't support DV: 1080p HDMI 1.4

Crazy stuff.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
brotony is online now  
post #72 of 80 Old 05-15-2020, 09:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
home_theatre_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by brotony View Post
I've also read there's something wrong with DV. Does disabling DV help any with your color space errors? I think I read that that color is better without DV, even when looking at a TV with lesser specs that shouldn't support DV: 1080p HDMI 1.4
When the Stream 4K is in forced DoVi mode (as opposed to forced HDR mode), choosing "Disable" for DoVi does not have any effect; the Stream 4K continues to output DoVi.

Changing from DoVi to HDR requires a reboot (user menu setting).

Once in forced HDR mode, choosing "Disable" for DoVi does disable forced HDR and change the color space from BT.2020 to BT.709.

However, BT.709 colors are still rendered incorrectly. This was also a problem with Shield TV at launch, eventually fixed by NVIDIA.

With Shield TV, changing from 4K resolution to 1080p would correct BT.709 color; I have not looked into whether this is true of Stream 4K as well.
brotony likes this.

Chase Walton
Technical Editor
PMI, Ltd. / MSR, Inc.

Home Theater Design and Calibration Insider

My comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of PMI, Ltd. or MSR, Inc.

home_theatre_man is offline  
post #73 of 80 Old 05-15-2020, 11:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
brotony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post
When the Stream 4K is in forced DoVi mode (as opposed to forced HDR mode), choosing "Disable" for DoVi does not have any effect; the Stream 4K continues to output DoVi.



Changing from DoVi to HDR requires a reboot (user menu setting).



Once in forced HDR mode, choosing "Disable" for DoVi does disable forced HDR and change the color space from BT.2020 to BT.709.



However, BT.709 colors are still rendered incorrectly. This was also a problem with Shield TV at launch, eventually fixed by NVIDIA.



With Shield TV, changing from 4K resolution to 1080p would correct BT.709 color; I have not looked into whether this is true of Stream 4K as well.
Ok. Something to look for when Google releases the next Chromecast Ultra generation. Would be nice to see more user settings, features and less issues at a decent price point.

I also saw there's another thread in that forum detailing how to remove most of the TiVo branding to the Android TV dongle. Not sure how that would effect color?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
brotony is online now  
post #74 of 80 Old 05-18-2020, 12:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
As far as I know, there is no Android TV boxes support VP9.2 or YT HDR yet even though many come with the chipset that claims VP9.2 support.

As for Shield, aside from YT DHR, it is also missing HLG support that many other much cheaper boxes like MiBox do support. When we eventually get to the 4K broadcasting age, HLG will be the only format supported by live broadcasting. The other HDR formats are not suitable for such tasks.
Also, I think Xiaomi Mi Box (the 2016 version) supports Youtube HDR (with SmartYoutube TV app), auto refresh rate switching, Dolby TrueHD and Atmos pass through. Don't know if it supports HLG. It looks as good as it is going to be, the only thing that's missing is an Ethernet port which I understand can just be done with a USB 3.0 hub.
Karelia is offline  
post #75 of 80 Old 05-18-2020, 12:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Moebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Memphis area
Posts: 1,630
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked: 152
As I'm just getting to the point of "cutting the cord", decided to order a TiVo Stream and Fire Stick just to figure out how I'm looking to go forward. Ultimately, I will probably get at least one Shield as I just built a new PC that can handle Gamestream, so it'd be nice to play the occasional game from the couch.

As far as the TiVo goes, right now I have no HDR capable displays (even my projector is the older JVC RS600), so I haven't seen any of that particular bug. I do have the CEC problem where it keeps turning my system back on, which definitely needs some work. For the moment, I'm testing on the bedroom TV with no AVR and not having any CEC issue. The only other problem I've been trying to isolate is with Plex. For some reason, if I have passthru enabled for audio, if I try to launch a DTS encoded movie from my server, it crashes. Not the Stream, but the Plex playback error. I did not see the same issue with the Fire Stick in initial tests. Also, at least on the bedroom TV (haven't tried to isolate elsewhere), I'm seeing a weird problem in Plex with black frames popping up. A movie will be playing, and just have a quick flash to a solid black screen. It's irregular, sometimes several times in a matter of a few seconds, then go minutes without a flash, so I'm not sure if it's something with keyframes or not. Next test is trying on other displays to see if it happens there. I've not seen the same with the Firestick on that either.

As a whole, and speaking as a loyal TiVo lover since 2002, if they could polish things up a bit, I definitely like the interface a bit better. To be honest, I'm primarily using the Android TV interface, not the TiVo guide, but even that's a bit smoother and cleaner than the Fire Stick, which forces giant banners in your face. If TiVo adds other providers to the guide (I'm going to be using YTTV as Sling just doesn't have the channels I need), it would definitely be a short term winner. That might change in the coming couple of years as I replace TVs (and one day my projector), but for the short term definitely.

Remember, no matter where you go... You're not where you were anymore.

HJ Movie House Build Thread
Moebius is offline  
post #76 of 80 Old 05-21-2020, 08:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
ShoutingMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA / One Loudoun
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Can this replace a TiVo mini as a front end to my TiVo’s, plus give a single box for streaming apps? That would probably be worth $50+ to me.
ShoutingMan is offline  
post #77 of 80 Old 05-22-2020, 04:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoutingMan View Post
Can this replace a TiVo mini as a front end to my TiVo’s, plus give a single box for streaming apps? That would probably be worth $50+ to me.

No, but it is said to be in the works. Of course we all know how that goes with TiVo, lol!
BillyClyde1115 is offline  
post #78 of 80 Old 05-24-2020, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dsskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 286
FYI, Spoke with Logitech Harmony looking for codes for the TiVo Stream 4K. I was informed that they don’t have rights to issued TiVos codes for their remotes, thatt it’s a TiVo issue. I then contact TiVo, who told me, “ Unforunately, TiVo Stream 4K is not compatible with other accessories like other remote brands. For the mean time you may email our design team for feature request using this special form provided on the link so they will be able to review your request.” which I did. No response yet.

ISF Calibrator
Samsung PN64F8500, Denon AVR-S910.
Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Denon AVR-X2400H, Palliser Flicks lOlOOlOl Dax material.
Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, as they tend to shrink over time.
dsskid is offline  
post #79 of 80 Old 05-25-2020, 12:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Matt L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Flushing, MI
Posts: 6,144
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked: 682
Funny, my Harmony Ultimate has codes for the Stream 4k, leastwise it loaded them into the remote. I have not bothered to plug the TiVo back in since it hogs the system and turns my whole system on in the middle of the night. Waiting for an CEC update to fix the issue. Or move it to one of my other systems.

Update: Plugged the TiVo back in and no love, remote code loaded from Harmony do not work. Was watching a movie on my FS and blip the entire system turned off - Thanks TiVO. Pulled the plug again.

Last edited by Matt L; 05-25-2020 at 11:13 PM.
Matt L is offline  
post #80 of 80 Old 05-26-2020, 12:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 3,631
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Wizziwig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off