Consumer Reports: LG 55EC9300 "Isn't the Best TV We've Ever Tested." - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1017Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Turrican4D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 750 Post(s)
Liked: 442
But Katz also noted, that some scenes loooked better with the ZT60. And in Gravity he mentioned, that the OLED didn't show as much stars as the other TVs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I rest my case. Unreal.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post28559162

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
This is just not true. The only problem with shadow detail on these is uniformity, which I described in my review.
So what is Tom Huffman missing? Maybe you can help him out?




Last edited by Turrican4D; 10-28-2014 at 12:47 PM.
Turrican4D is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
5x10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 913 Post(s)
Liked: 600
something to be said about the infinite contrast ratio
although somewhat quanitified, its impact on the picture is something you have to see and not read about
agkss likes this.
5x10 is offline  
post #273 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
If Panasonic put out a display tomorrow with an LG Display sourced OLED panel equipped with their own electronics/video processing that featured accurate color, gamma and defeatable noise reduction would anyone still be arguing the merits of this LG panel?

I've argued for years that contrast/black level is the most important aspect impacting picture quality and that's why I'm so excited about the possibility OLED presents. That being said: there is no way I'd trade my 55" VT60 plasma for this 55" 9300 OLED. There are just too many areas where this LG falls down for it to be considered an elite display. I'm not giving LG a pass just because they are the only game in town-- I expect more from them. It''s not like anyone is saying this isn't a good display, CR and hdtvtest are just saying this is far from the best display. Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush to the defense of an obviously flawed product? Especially considering hdtvtest clearly points out that many of these flaws are evident in LG's LCD displays and thus attributable to the brand and not the display type.
But panasonic aren't putting out an OLED display tomorrow. As much as we all wish they were. The sooner OLED gets adopted by the likes of Panasonic and Sony in the consumer field the better. Even if it was, I still think we would be arguing the merits of this OLED panel over every LCD and Plasma... which is what we are doing now.

I don't really see the point in debating it's strengths over a non-existent product. It would obviously be inferior to the perfect, hypothetical panel you describe. Can it that screen cost £500 too? Then the LG would really not be in the picture.

The LG panel right NOW is the best in class in contrast/black level which we both seem to agree is one of the most important aspect of perceptive picture quality. It's SO frustrating it falls in other areas but personally I choose it over anything else in the market right now because in balance I find it the most enjoyable screen to watch films in a dark room - they are my viewing habits and this screen delivers the goods for me. The fact you are happy with the Panasonic you have now. Great.

But are CR really saying it's far from the best display? It reads like it's very very nearly the best display to them. 1 point from the best display. Level on points with the 2nd best display. The points are really arbitrary. How people are reading it so negative I don't know. I think Jim even said in this thread he would buy it over the screens above it in their ranking list. I don't really care what score they give it. Even if they said it was the worst display in the world I would still be keeping mine.

I wouldn't say I'm in a rush to defend the displays flaws. I hope I don't come across that way. It's curved for a start! And most user reviews point out many of the flaws that CR and hdtvtest do. First time I saw one in a store I thought it looked terrible. But I'm lucky. My panel doesn't have a blue bias and like many others I could calibrate the display to give me accurate colour. It's not acceptable that some panels are unable to give you accurate colour, if that was the case with mine I would return it in an instant. I hold colour equally as important to contrast and black level.

And yet I'm on a forum lauding it's merits because in real world use, not looking at graphs or crops of static images it's the best looking large display I've laid eyes on. It's very annoying their are negatives, especially things that could easily be fixed like DNR, but it is not as heavy handed us some would be led to believe. All in all, nothing that would make me return it, but room for improvement definitely.

My reference point of a good display is a professional Sony OLED monitor... essentially as close as you get to 'perfect' (albeit relatively small) picture.

I just hope OLED doesn't disappear like Plasma before it gets a real chance to gain traction due to the bungled LG processing. If anyone is on the fence after reading otherwise positive reviews I implore them to give it a try.

If you've made up your mind already. Ignore me.
Ken Ross, agkss and 5x10 like this.

Last edited by fullybob; 10-28-2014 at 12:56 PM.
fullybob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #274 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
chexi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quick question on motion. Is the motion handling issue that people keep referring to on the LG OLEDs apparent when not using frame interpolation, or is this just related to less than perfect frame interpolation? I ask, because I always turn frame interpolation off anyway, as it makes me sick, and I am considering buying one of these (actually the 8800), but motion handling is important to me. I can live with film judder of course, as it is in the source, and do not need or want it corrected, but if these sets are adding in motion artifacts that are not in the source when not using frame interpolation, then I may have to stay on the sidelines and wait for the 2015s.
chexi1 is offline  
post #275 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JWhip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,889
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
something to be said about the infinite contrast ratio
although somewhat quanitified, its impact on the picture is something you have to see and not read about

Like some of us haven't? The blacks are black which is great. But once you spend some time with these sets and you grow more accustomed to the superb CR, you start to notice some is the issues with the set. Yes the slow moving scenes and objects on the black backgrounds look superb. Then I was able to watch football (soccer) on one of these sets and the motion issues jumped right out at me. The same is true for the detail. We watched a very detailed image about three feet away and could see the DNR. Neither of these issues should be issues at all for a set such as this and certainly not at these price points. Is a company like Panasonic a guarantee of improvement? No, but I am more confident in their prowess, based on the 2 Panny plasmas that I own and the years of experience I have had evaluating their plasma lines. Yes there have been missteps, such as the floating blacks and I have been unimpressed to say the least with the LCDs I have seen to date. But overall, I would take their processing prowess over what I have seen from LG any day. CES should prove rather interesting. I sure hope that they fix the DNR whenever they get around and get the 65" sets to market in any quantities. As for motion, that will likely be an issue for some time given what LG has said about the tech.
JWhip is offline  
post #276 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
5x10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 913 Post(s)
Liked: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Like some of us haven't?
i would be willing to bet the majority havent
i still think my 9800 easily provides a much better picture than my panny st50, something about the cr that really makes the picture pop and at some times, appear 3d
ive never seen that on my plasma
Ken Ross likes this.
5x10 is offline  
post #277 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mightyhuhn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,146
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1160 Post(s)
Liked: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post
Quick question on motion. Is the motion handling issue that people keep referring to on the LG OLEDs apparent when not using frame interpolation, or is this just related to less than perfect frame interpolation? I ask, because I always turn frame interpolation off anyway, as it makes me sick, and I am considering buying one of these (actually the 8800), but motion handling is important to me. I can live with film judder of course, as it is in the source, and do not need or want it corrected, but if these sets are adding in motion artifacts that are not in the source when not using frame interpolation, then I may have to stay on the sidelines and wait for the 2015s.
there are different types of motion issue.
this Tv doesn't have response time issue.
the 9300 has issue with motion blur from sample hold displays.
this displays only gets 300 lane without interpolation and ~550 with interpolation unlike the smasung oled that can do non interpolation BFI and gets the full 1080 lanes so in both modes not really good a normal LCD usually performs the same in term of sample hold motion blur most better LCD out perform this display in this type of motion blur.
mightyhuhn is offline  
post #278 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:43 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
can you provide some documentation of this?

it seems unbelievable....er...incredible
As so many things I've been reading lately.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #279 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hobbs47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,751
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 488
This thread is helping to keep the owners thread clean. Thank you all for participating.
Ken Ross, agkss, mo949 and 1 others like this.

Benq HT3550/LG OLED65B6P /Panny UB820 4k Bluray/Apple TV 4k
Nvidia Shield/HDFury AVRkey/Samsung HW-K950 Soundbar
hobbs47 is online now  
post #280 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:52 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Gee Ken you miss the point and forgot to add motion issues to boot. I have found the flat and curved LGs unwatchable because of the motion issues. I find it annoying and distracting just as you with ABL. I have sat with you at shootouts and you point to it and I say huh? As for DNR, it is obvious just looking at the picture. Not as noticeable at 10 feet away but once you see it you know it is there. See, ABL is necessary with plasma. Undefeatable DNR has no business in any display. You obviously cannot accept that I am annoyed by these issues but it is OK for you to be annoyed by ABL and not annoyed by the cyan error.
Because ABL is 'necessary' with plasma, doesn't make it desirable. It's visible on things like hockey games, large expanses of white, etc. Apparently some are more susceptible to seeing this issue, but are you saying you've 'never' seen a single manifestation of ABL, ever? Okeedokey.

As for motion issues, IMO, yes, that's a more valid complaint than DNR for sure, and not unlike that of LCDs. There we can agree that some are more sensitive than others. Many don't see it at all, some see it and aren't bothered by it and others see it and are bothered by it. Nothing new here.

As for the effects of DNR, it's not just me that's missing it, virtually every owner, Chad B and other pros as manifested in many reviews. You simply cannot see this unless you're very close to the screen and certainly not at typical seating distances. I'm quite surprised, as a non-owner, you've seen it since most in-store setups have simple demos playing with no way to A/B against another similar display without DNR.

But round and round we go, getting nowhere. You may have the last word, this is getting old...very old.
Mark Slone likes this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #281 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:57 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You really do have a hypersensitive spot about these LG OLED TVs. The thread doesn't go your way and doesn't have enough LG OLED cheerleading in it and you want to lock it since it's "worthless".

BTW. I never said that size was a defect. That's your total mischaracterization of what I said. I said that you think size is a valid criticism of the set would cause someone to not buy one. Who's the one throwing around hyperbole again?
So when one counters misinformation (which is plentiful in this thread) or presents a contrary viewpoint, they are labeled 'hypersensitive'. Those that continue to bash the LG on a daily basis and tell us why they would never ever buy an LG OLED, are well-reasoned and unemotional.

Thanks for clarifying that. You have a future in politics.

Last edited by Ken Ross; 10-28-2014 at 02:21 PM.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #282 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 01:58 PM
Member
 
JakeNY28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 82
CR can put the 9300 in 5th place in the 'overall' category all day long and has made some good points...(aside the one about "no ads, no free stuff, but heck, we'll do anything for SEO")...But a simple side by side of an OLED to anything else...the OLED will win for 9.5 out of 10 consumers in the PQ department. Yes...9 and 1/2 people

Unfortunately, articles like this only hurts the OLED...the average subscriber will have a few takeaways...like, 'ranked 5th place' and he won't ever remember why, so even though his eyes will love what he sees, he'll just stay away because of CR's rank level. CR may attempt to be looking out for the average consumer, but the average consumer has no clue or won't even notice the issues CR even pointed out. Perhaps CR should have included a poll of what a panel of average consumers ranked the TV after seeing side by side comparisons...I would bet money their rankings would be a lot higher than 5th.


I don't mind people disagreeing, but at least read the article if you're going to rake me over the coals for it. This is my the closing paragraph of the review:

But overall, LG’s 55EC9300 OLED TV is a top-performing 1080p set, and certainly ranks among the best TVs we’ve ever tested. It's worth noting that under normal viewing, many people won't notice the flaws we point out in this review. But even with some of the noted shortcomings of this set, it's clear to us that OLED will quickly emerge as the top display technology for those who care about top-notch television picture quality. That's why we're eagerly awaiting the arrival of some of LG's even newer OLED TVs, offered in 65- and 77-inch screen sizes, which combine OLED performance with higher Ultra HD TV resolutions. We expect these sets—and hopefully Ultra HD OLED TVs from other manufacturers—to become the new benchmarks for TV performance for the next several years.

—James K. Willcox and Claudio Ciacci


Is it really not clear to consumers how we feel?--Jim
JakeNY28 is offline  
post #283 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
@ Ken Ross: Why do you damage control some obvious issues just because you did not see them in Retail store. In Retail you see nothing.


Just look at the pictures:


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-55...1410203929.htm


Details that are expensive captured and you pay for (HD transfer, Blu Ray) are complete lost. 90% don't care, but they are not the people who buy a 3,5 k tv anyway.


And yes, people can see lost details for example in film grain.


Its a No go.
Turrican4D likes this.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #284 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
So what does that say about you and your extensive participation in this ''one of the most useless threads You've seen on AVS in a long time''? -> You've just checkmated yourself
Not at all, even though Mark thought he was clever in so insinuating that. I am and have always been uncomfortable with unchallenged misinformation. There has been plenty of that here. But if you construe my POV which counters the usual crowd of LG detractors that show up in every LG OLED thread as some kind of 'checkmate', so be it.

The bottom line is that the uninitiated can venture into these threads looking for objective information on OLED and come away thinking these must be the most God-awful displays ever produced. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I know the bashers would love to see me go away so their remarks could go unchallenged...aint happenin.

As I said, this thread is descending into something beyond silliness.
hobbs47 likes this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #285 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,463
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
So when one counters misinformation (which is plentiful in this thread) or presents a contrary viewpoint, they are labeled 'hypersensitive'. Those that continue to bash the LG on a daily basis tell us why they would never ever buy an LG OLED, are well-reasoned and unemotional.

Thanks for clarifying that. You have a future in politics.
Who are you accusing of spreading misinformation? I'm curious because that's no laughing matter to a journalist. Is it me? Is it AVS Forum? Is it HDTVtest? Is it Consumer Reports? Would you mind being specific as to what you consider a difference of opinion, versus misinformation. Thanks.
sage11x and fatuglyguy like this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #286 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
@ Ken Ross: Why do you damage control some obvious issues just because you did not see them in Retail store. In Retail you see nothing.


Just look at the pictures:


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-55...1410203929.htm


Details that are expensive captured and you pay for (HD transfer, Blu Ray) are complete lost. 90% don't care, but they are not the people who buy a 3,5 k tv anyway.


And yes, people can see lost details for example in film grain.


Its a No go.
Bruce, simply saying something doesn't make it so. You've been asked to back up previous remarks and you can't. It's not just me that doesn't see the impact of DNR, IT'S EVERY OWNER, including one guy who is in production. What part of that don't you understand? You choose to ignore all owners, you choose to ignore all professional reviews that talk about the fantastic detail and sharpness and you choose to ignore, most recently, Chad B's comments.

No Bruce, for YOU it's a 'no go'.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #287 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logibaird View Post
Or he missed what HDTVtest & CR didn't?
Yup, that must be it. We could have 4,000 reviews, owners and pros that say otherwise, but we'll latch on to only these two. Makes sense to me.

Look, DNR is undefeatable. DNR should be able to be switched off. How many times do I need to repeat that? I have never denied that. With that said, it does NOT mean that DNR's impact is obvious. It's very very obviously not or EVERYONE who be seeing it instead of a tiny minority.

This is not rocket science, it's pure & simple logic.

I believe in being fair & balanced. The presence of an issue does NOT necessarily mean the issue can be seen.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #288 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
1. Just read the Owners thread, yes they can see the difference.


2. Look at the pictures: Fine detail is completely lost, almost wiped out, that's the proof. Ok, you don't see it. Fine.


3. Every oled owner wants DNR gone, just gone. But you keep defending.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #289 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
there are different types of motion issue.
this Tv doesn't have response time issue.
the 9300 has issue with motion blur from sample hold displays.
this displays only gets 300 lane without interpolation and ~550 with interpolation unlike the smasung oled that can do non interpolation BFI and gets the full 1080 lanes so in both modes not really good a normal LCD usually performs the same in term of sample hold motion blur most better LCD out perform this display in this type of motion blur.
From what I've seen, those that are bothered by motion issues on most LCDs, will probably be bothered by motion on the OLED. Those that have been fine with motion on LCD, will probably be fine with it on OLED.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #290 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JWhip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,889
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Because ABL is 'necessary' with plasma, doesn't make it desirable. It's visible on things like hockey games, large expanses of white, etc. Apparently some are more susceptible to seeing this issue, but are you saying you've 'never' seen a single manifestation of ABL, ever? Okeedokey.

As for motion issues, IMO, yes, that's a more valid complaint than DNR for sure, and not unlike that of LCDs. There we can agree that some are more sensitive than others. Many don't see it at all, some see it and aren't bothered by it and others see it and are bothered by it. Nothing new here.

As for the effects of DNR, it's not just me that's missing it, virtually every owner, Chad B and other pros as manifested in many reviews. You simply cannot see this unless you're very close to the screen and certainly not at typical seating distances. I'm quite surprised, as a non-owner, you've seen it since most in-store setups have simple demos playing with no way to A/B against another similar display without DNR.

But round and round we go, getting nowhere. You may have the last word, this is getting old...very old.
Ken, you have no idea how many of these displays I have seen. In fact, a friend in London has had 2. I spent a week at his flat and spent a ton of time watching in a small room at night and in the dark. Both have gone back for the very reasons I have mentioned. I saw it, he saw it. I have no idea why others don't. As for ABL, no I don't notice it. Hockey ice has a gray tint BTW and shouldn't look bright white on a TV. Maybe on a Progressive commercial. That is about it. How often do you see a full or nearly full white field on a display?

Last edited by JWhip; 10-28-2014 at 02:31 PM.
JWhip is offline  
post #291 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Who are you accusing of spreading misinformation? I'm curious because that's no laughing matter to a journalist. Is it me? Is it AVS Forum? Is it HDTVtest? Is it Consumer Reports? Would you mind being specific as to what you consider a difference of opinion, versus misinformation. Thanks.
Misinformation is being spread by some posters, I thought you understood that. That's all I'll say about those folks, the pot has been stirred enough.

However "misinformation" is a word I might not use in regards to CR or HDTVtest, but I surely might use the term 'overblown' or 'embellished' in their description of some of the flaws. No Mark, that doesn't mean I don't agree the flaws exist (for the 100th time), but it does mean I most certainly don't agree about their severity. We still do have a right to disagree on these points, don't we...or is the counterpoint dismissed because those holding a different view are labeled 'hypersensitive'.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #292 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:31 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,056
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7275 Post(s)
Liked: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
1. Just read the Owners thread, yes they can see the difference.


2. Look at the pictures: Fine detail is completely lost, almost wiped out, that's the proof. Ok, you don't see it. Fine.


3. Every oled owner wants DNR gone, just gone. But you keep defending.
Asked & answered Bruce, multiple times. I can try sending smoke signals if that helps.

Oh, and please do tell me how many owners have reported they can see the DNR difference? You are a really quick reader to have gone through all the owner's threads.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #293 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
You need to turn the lights of, you can easily see and photographs the different black levels of displays.


Here a picture of Panasonic ST30 vs St60. The St30 has around 0.03 cd/m2.
The ST60 around: 0,006 cd/m2


The Sony 55 99b has 0,056 which (I think) is on the top end of the lcd tvs. So double the light output of the ST33.


So yes, putting an lcd next to an oled will look very bad for the lcd, most of if it is an IPS Panel. Even Lg shows this contrast.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55x...1405123771.htm
I can't get a decent photo with the lights off, there seems to be some sort of ambient light in those shots anyway so here's another of mine with a small lamp tucked in the other corner of the room (though the camera's upping the ISO so it's still a bit brighter than it actually is).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01109.JPG
Views:	117
Size:	214.2 KB
ID:	337497  
Geoff D is offline  
post #294 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Its like 2 mechanics talk about improving the engine to get best result on the racing track, and Ken Ross interrupts: Hey you don't feel the difference, because I don't, so please don't discuss the fine details on the engine.
Stereodude and sage11x like this.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #295 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I can't get a decent photo with the lights off, there seems to be some sort of ambient light in those shots anyway so here's another of mine with a small lamp tucked in the other corner of the room (though the camera's upping the ISO so it's still a bit brighter than it actually is).

That looks really impressive.


:-)
Geoff D likes this.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #296 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Asked & answered Bruce, multiple times. I can try sending smoke signals if that helps.

Oh, and please do tell me how many owners have reported they can see the DNR difference? You are a really quick reader to have gone through all the owner's threads.

I have no clue what you asked me, I was weeks away and I post very casual. What do you want to know?


The Owners thread 2 has only some pages, not much. There was a post about that the DNR and film grain being lost.


That's just what DNR does, it REDUCES DETAILS. since there is no digital noise.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #297 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vienna
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 516 Post(s)
Liked: 292
It also seems that the colors change between DNR On and Off: Look at the green colour and the wooden cabine.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-55...1410203929.htm


So maybe there is also some kind of colour optimization.
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #298 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,463
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Yup, that must be it. We could have 4,000 reviews, owners and pros that say otherwise, but we'll latch on to only these two. Makes sense to me.

Look, DNR is undefeatable. DNR should be able to be switched off. How many times do I need to repeat that? I have never denied that. With that said, it does NOT mean that DNR's impact is obvious. It's very very obviously not or EVERYONE who be seeing it instead of a tiny minority.

This is not rocket science, it's pure & simple logic.

I believe in being fair & balanced. The presence of an issue does NOT necessarily mean the issue can be seen.
As you know, the pros at the VE shootout unanimously chose the Samsung OLED over the LG. As it happens I did not, even though I gave the EC9300 a "4" for the way it handled motion—a far lower score than I gave any other TV there, in any category.

Also, here's an excerpt from the summary of a third review, from Digital Trends...

Quote:
"We’re in a pickle here. On one hand, the 55EC9300 delivers the promise of near-perfect blacks, excellent contrast, and rich color that OLED is revered for. Pair that with an excellent smart TV interface and wrap it up in a sexy package, and you’ve got a winning TV.

But the judder issue is not one that we’re able to overlook, and that’s not just because we stare at TVs day in and day out, either. More casual viewers struggled with the judder issue as well, so we can’t help but worry that you might, too.

Unfortunately, it appears LG had to cut some corners in order to bring the 55EC9300 to market at an unprecedentedly low price. And frankly, we probably should have seen it coming. This TV could easily have scored a 9, but considering its premium price and the judder issue, we just have to knock it down a couple points. It’s hard to throw our recommendation behind something that may disappoint the sort of buyer who would consider this TV in the first place."

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-revi...#ixzz3HTnih6Nh
Follow us: @digitalT rends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook
sage11x likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 10-28-2014 at 03:09 PM.
imagic is offline  
post #299 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 03:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mightyhuhn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,146
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1160 Post(s)
Liked: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
From what I've seen, those that are bothered by motion issues on most LCDs, will probably be bothered by motion on the OLED. Those that have been fine with motion on LCD, will probably be fine with it on OLED.
it's 100% the same issue with the same source for it. most people see it but it doesn't look totally unnatural so if you don't know it's there you don't see it but it's very obvoius.

the only thing that's strange is that the Lg implantation is below AVG. for example the AX800 gets to 1080+ with frame creating and backlight strobing at the same time and that's not a good way to handle this problem in my eyes but still a lot better than this. plasma doesn't have this type of motion blur problem.

on the other hand this display is very good with response time better than any LCD and plasma this was a very very huge problem with the first LCD on the market and is still not 100% gone.

people brought LCD without any of these BFI or my totally hated frame interpolation feature and didn't have a problem with that. it's simply the trust. but a display like this should have BFI like the samsung OLED.

and what's really sad every CRT has better motion and better response time X-).
mightyhuhn is offline  
post #300 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 03:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,188
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1135 Post(s)
Liked: 1767
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeNY28 View Post
Even with its flaws, I'd prefer the LG OLED to any of the UHD sets we've tested, which are all LCD TVs with that technology's limitations.
...
Regarding the ranking of the LG OLED—yes, I think it's where it should be.
I'm a little bit confused. It seems like you are saying that the LG OLED should be below at least one UHD set even though you would prefer the LG OLED to the higher scoring UHD set. Is that correct?

I'm not saying that couldn't be a reasonable position since your preferences could be different than what you want to score for reader's likely preferences or maybe price is figured in somehow, but wondering if I am understanding your position correctly.

One reason I stopped doing front projector reviews is that I didn't want to use a point system. Although I can see some value in them, I felt that it could mislead people. The best front projector depends a lot of things (such as the environment it will go into) and I didn't feel like I could come up with a points system that wouldn't push people toward a choice that wasn't best for them.

Thanks,
Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Tags
55EC9300 , frontpage , oled

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off