Consumer Reports: LG 55EC9300 "Isn't the Best TV We've Ever Tested." - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1201 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 03:43 PM
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Understanding the real time calibration issues of these LG Oleds, has anyone tried calibrating any of these sets using an external processor like a radiance or an iScan Duo? Auto cal would be out of the question, but what about manual calibration? There are a lot of tvs out there that do not have full calibration controls, and if an external processor solves the problem then would we even be having this conversation if LG simply omitted 20pt grayscale and CMS controls?

Note, I have an iScan Duo, the new eye1pro colorimeter profiled by TH, and Chromapure and will try calibrating the set using solely the Duo's CMS and grayscale function soon, I just have not had time to do so yet. The downside I guess is when using the internal aps, but since I'm stuck using the TV's sound anyway for onboard aps due to my receiver not having ARC (and because I'm not going to run an optical cable through the wall), I will probably just continue to use my PS3 for most of those streaming services anyway, which would then be calibrated.
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post #1202 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
LOL. It's like some of these guys wake up every morning and say to themselves "Let's see, what new reason can I come up with today to not buy OLED". Yet these same guys are in every single OLED thread.

May I ask , which OLED model do you own Ken ?
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post #1203 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 04:02 PM
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I guess it may appropriate to note that according to professional calibrators themselves - less than 1% of all new TVs buyers actually have their TVs calibrated.

So, is the lack of calibration on the OLED really that big of a deal to anyone other than the less than 1% of us videophiles?
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post #1204 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
I
So, is the lack of calibration on the OLED really that big of a deal to anyone other than the less than 1% of us videophiles?
Given that the majority of OLED buyers at this point are likely to be videophiles, it does.
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post #1205 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 04:07 PM
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May I ask , which OLED model do you own Ken ?
I am in the market for the as of yet, unreleased 77". At what point I jump in will be entirely price dependent.
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post #1206 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
CNet, and Katzmaier in general, a huge lover of plasmas, in their review of the LG 9300 states several times -

"The LG 55EC9300 lives up to the promise of OLED with the best picture quality of any TV we've ever reviewed."

That includes their reviews/testing of the Panasonic VT60 and ZT60...
And the Kuro...
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post #1207 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I am in the market for the as of yet, unreleased 77". At what point I jump in will be entirely price dependent.

find it interesting you defend a television you don't own , and are dismissive of owners or reviewers who find fault with it
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post #1208 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by filmoreXXX View Post
find it interesting you defend a television you don't own , and are dismissive of owners or reviewers who find fault with it
You have to own this TV in order to comment on it now...?

If that is the case - this thread should be virtually empty...
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post #1209 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by filmoreXXX View Post
find it interesting you defend a television you don't own , and are dismissive of owners or reviewers who find fault with it
Like I didn't know you asked a loaded question.

It seems that guys like you get upset when someone tries to put some of the criticisms in perspective, calling this 'dismissive'. In fact, it's actually you that's being 'dismissive' of those trying to sort out the serious issues from those that most can't see anyway. If posters didn't challenge the severity of every issue that was brought up, most would come to these pages thinking the LG OLEDs were the most miserable displays ever produced.

Much to your dismay, I will continue on my current approach.

But hey, I'm glad you find it 'interesting'. Ba bye.
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post #1210 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Like I didn't know you asked a loaded question.

It seems that guys like you get upset when someone tries to put some of the criticisms in perspective, calling this 'dismissive'. In fact, it's actually you that's being 'dismissive' of those trying to sort out the serious issues from those that most can't see anyway. If posters didn't challenge the severity of every issue that was brought up, most would come to these pages thinking the LG OLEDs were the most miserable displays ever produced.

Much to your dismay, I will continue on my current approach.

But hey, I'm glad you find it 'interesting'. Ba bye.

and what if they cant be sorted out ?


I note even the guy on the 55" owners thread has noted colour non uniformity - exactly like I saw on my 55 ' OLED
and people are finding banding as well .(as I saw on the 55" OLED)


I find it extraordinary to read people say this "hopefully " will improve as the panel runs in , or its because of the way the photos were taken .


Your approach is : owners or reviewers who see fault in OLED as implemented by lucky goldstar can be ignored , lets keep waiting for units without faults or owners who can accept compromises (which sadly with retail televisions seems like an option)

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post #1211 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:36 PM
 
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When you stay away from the forum and the arguments the negative post stand out a lot more. Shout out to 5×10 and those who always keep it positive and respectful.

It is only a TV guys, people are starving to death and going to bed without a roof over their heads. Happy Holidays to all members on this forum .

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post #1212 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
in your opinion, what tv on the market today, has a better pq than these oleds?
The post where he said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logibaird
LG Oled coming close to Panasonics or Samsung's 2013 PDP's.
to a similar question from me seems to have disappeared. His position from that is that the LG OLED cannot come close to the Panasonics or Samsung's F8500. Not just that those are better, but that the OLED cannot come close.

People have different preferences, but I don't know if he would still hold the view that the PQ for the OLED cannot come close to the PQ for those PDPs if his opinion was based on more experience with the OLED. Maybe, maybe not. Does seem to be on the more extreme view of positions, but not all extreme views are wrong.

This was back here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post28912050

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post #1213 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
The positiv crew is at it again If you cannot handle folks being critical about OLED TV performance you should stopt visiting this Forum. There are these little AV Forums out there with nothing but applause and likes. AVS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE!

My problems with OLED at this time are very few and real; motion/off axis and calibration. Calibration issues are much more of a dealbreaker for me. Over time i might be able to live with motion and off axis problems. And by the time i buy a OLED i will look for all OLED problems i can find and see if i can live with that...
(i will chose the brand with NR over undefeatable NR).
What's wrong with some positive to counter the negatives?
As an owner, I think there are some very positive reasons to own this tv that easily trump the negatives
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
The post where he said:
to a similar question from me seems to have disappeared. His position from that is that the LG OLED cannot come close to the Panasonics or Samsung's F8500. Not just that those are better, but that the OLED cannot come close.




People have different preferences, but I don't know if he would still hold the view that the PQ for the OLED cannot come close to the PQ for those PDPs if his opinion was based on more experience with the OLED. Maybe, maybe not. Does seem to be on the more extreme view of positions, but not all extreme views are wrong.




This was back here:




https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post28912050




--Darin



it was kind of a loaded question, outside of the f8500, none of those tvs are on the market unless you want a used one

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post #1214 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 05:56 PM
 
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And they're arguably not better anyway. Some things they do better, one very important thing the LG OLEDs do better.
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post #1215 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Nah, this has nothing to do with the 'positive crew' not being able to handle criticism. Rather it has to do with the salivating that occurs among a few when anything negative is mentioned. A sincere critic will mention an issue once or twice, but when the same poster mentions it countless times, whether it's the curve, the DNR or whatever, it begins to take on a feeling of something other than sincere criticism. When someone says "I'll never buy that LG OLED because of *****", we get it. But when it's repeated over and over and over, it transcends sincerity. If I felt as strongly as do 4 or 5 posters here, I'd be gone. Why would I waste my time on a product I have no interest in. Why would I waste my time on a company whose products I don't trust because of 'poor engineering'. Why would I waste my time on a product that has non-defeatable DNR when I feel so strongly about the desire to shut it off?

I'm not picking on any one poster, but the pattern is very obvious.
One can easily turn your reasoning around. You do the same. Being positiv. Attacking people that are negativ, giving people that attack people that are negative a like. You do that over and over again. By doing that others feel forced to repeat the issues since visitors might get the impression that LG OLED TVs are perfect (which is not the case). At the end of the year AVS will give someone the MR POSITIV OLED AWARD, guess who wins and gets a OLED for free.. including the issues
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post #1216 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
What's wrong with some positive to counter the negatives?
As an owner, I think there are some very positive reasons to own this tv that easily trump the negatives.
You did not counter some negatives with some positive. What you did was counter some realism with negativity..
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post #1217 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
You did not counter some negatives with some positive. What you did was counter some realism with negativity..
Sorry, your right, here ya go

The Infinite contrast ratio on this tv makes the pictures pop more than any other set I have laid eyes on
4 people have said the 2d picture looks 3d
Not one mentioned off angle issues, not one mentioned dnr
How's that for realism?
This is the biggest jump in pq since the jump from standard definition to hd
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post #1218 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by filmoreXXX View Post
and what if they cant be sorted out ?


I note even the guy on the 55" owners thread has noted colour non uniformity - exactly like I saw on my 55 ' OLED
and people are finding banding as well .(as I saw on the 55" OLED)


I find it extraordinary to read people say this "hopefully " will improve as the panel runs in , or its because of the way the photos were taken .


Your approach is : owners or reviewers who see fault in OLED as implemented by lucky goldstar can be ignored , lets keep waiting for units without faults or owners who can accept compromises (which sadly with retail televisions seems like an option)
I've already explained my 'approach', but apparently you didn't understand me. I have never ignored owners who had issues, so please don't rewrite history.

I will not go around in circles with you, there's enough of that going on in these OLED threads. I wish you luck with whatever display you wind up with. Good night.
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post #1219 of 1360 Old 12-10-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
One can easily turn your reasoning around. You do the same. Being positiv. Attacking people that are negativ, giving people that attack people that are negative a like. You do that over and over again. By doing that others feel forced to repeat the issues since visitors might get the impression that LG OLED TVs are perfect (which is not the case). At the end of the year AVS will give someone the MR POSITIV OLED AWARD, guess who wins and gets a OLED for free.. including the issues
Oh brother, it's now a sin to be positive. It's now a sin to try and present the other side of the coin. It's now a sin to try and put negatives in perspective as opposed to denying they exist.

I have NEVER denied the issues. NEVER. Did I deny the existence of DNR? No. Did I deny the existence of CMS control issues? No. Did I acknowledge as with other techs there appears to be a panel lottery here too? Yes. If you claim otherwise, present the proof, otherwise give this nonsense up and stop accusing me of things that are not true. You mistake my putting things in perspective with denial. They are two VERY different things. Do I need to explain?

I also wasn't aware until just now that we also have a 'thumbs up' police dept. Who knew?

But hey, at the end of the year, if AVS gives a Mr. Negative OLED Award, there might be five or so in serious contention. Wow!

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post #1220 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post
Understanding the real time calibration issues of these LG Oleds, has anyone tried calibrating any of these sets using an external processor like a radiance or an iScan Duo? Auto cal would be out of the question, but what about manual calibration? There are a lot of tvs out there that do not have full calibration controls, and if an external processor solves the problem then would we even be having this conversation if LG simply omitted 20pt grayscale and CMS controls?

Note, I have an iScan Duo, the new eye1pro colorimeter profiled by TH, and Chromapure and will try calibrating the set using solely the Duo's CMS and grayscale function soon, I just have not had time to do so yet. The downside I guess is when using the internal aps, but since I'm stuck using the TV's sound anyway for onboard aps due to my receiver not having ARC (and because I'm not going to run an optical cable through the wall), I will probably just continue to use my PS3 for most of those streaming services anyway, which would then be calibrated.
Me and my friend Diego77 we calibrated, it took us a lot to understand how it works, but we got to the results of reference, perhaps only the best Kuro were able to get out of a white balance and a range with dE 0.2 ,
Seeing is believing, and all 20 points.
If you have a bit of experience you can not even with this LG, I ask you to see the calibration range, PERFECT, calculated that no adjustment has 20 points on the range, we have worked on everything green rgb that moves the range, we set and then came back on the white balance to touch up the mistakes, then we re-read everything and screen speak for themselves.
15 hours of work

I used google translator, I hope you understand.
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post #1221 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
One can easily turn your reasoning around. You do the same. Being positiv. Attacking people that are negativ, giving people that attack people that are negative a like. You do that over and over again. By doing that others feel forced to repeat the issues since visitors might get the impression that LG OLED TVs are perfect (which is not the case). At the end of the year AVS will give someone the MR POSITIV OLED AWARD, guess who wins and gets a OLED for free.. including the issues

They are not pefect, that's clear. However, they are the best screens on the market, and in my opinion, better than any Panasonic plasma. I have an OLED and 55VT50 and 50VT60, and put the OLED side by side a 55VT50 and the difference is tragicomic, independently calibration and DNR problems.

Wanting to compare these plasmas with that OLED screen is absurd, ridiculous, and only understandable from the point of view of those who have not had the chance to compare live as if I've done.
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post #1222 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
Ok, so there are indeed panels without crushing black areas. Good to know.
Also the 8800 I wrote a short review on. Though I didn't specifically look for the problem on the 1st OLED I saw and reviewed, the 9800, I think I would have noticed it if it had exhibited it.
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post #1223 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 06:27 AM
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Also the 8800 I wrote a short review on. Though I didn't specifically look for the problem on the 1st OLED I saw and reviewed, the 9800, I think I would have noticed it if it had exhibited it.
Hello Chad, your contribution on calibration 55EC9300 for us that we have calibrated my TV and 'was great, but I wonder' if there is a spectral saple best of RAW xyz, you advice that because most approaches to the reference, you have the Jeti and have worked around the problem, but we who have only Xrite how do we get a better result? can you help me im this?
Many thanks for the answer.
Carlo
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post #1224 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Carlo46 View Post
Hello Chad, your contribution on calibration 55EC9300 for us that we have calibrated my TV and 'was great, but I wonder' if there is a spectral saple best of RAW xyz, you advice that because most approaches to the reference, you have the Jeti and have worked around the problem, but we who have only Xrite how do we get a better result? can you help me im this?
Many thanks for the answer.
Carlo
Hi Carlo,

I hope this post will provide you with some answers. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post27758698
My i1D3 meter is pretty old, though, and I am not sure if it measures the same now as when it was new. That is not a concern of mine since I always profile it off the Jeti. In my experience, using the raw XYZ output from the i1D3 provided more accurate results than using the OLED profile.

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post #1225 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 07:14 AM
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ok thanks, I also went to review the calibration techniques Oled you've signed in, and I can confirm also the problem of the contrast, must be set perfectly on white clipping, breast 'is the range that the rgb 70-80-90- 100ire are difficult to flatten.
On the range we had more problems, the VT50 I had there 'control 10 points, but here no, then after a 20-point white balance, we went on the 20 point range but was very out of scale even setting it to 2.4 for 2.2.
We acted only on rgb green lifting it to lower the range and lowering it to raise the range, when we arrived we went back to the range perfect control on 20 points and placed the rgb just touching the blue and red because the green was right for the range, therefore 'to raise the blue fell red, to raise the green dim blue and red and on like this until you have a dE of 0.22 on the gray scale, then we returned to measure the range to see if you was moved and instead was perfect with a dE of 0.2.
That 'was our experience of calibration, fun and with 15 hours of work to get to the result.
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post #1226 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Oh brother, it's now a sin to be positive. It's now a sin to try and present the other side of the coin. It's now a sin to try and put negatives in perspective as opposed to denying they exist.

I have NEVER denied the issues. NEVER. Did I deny the existence of DNR? No. Did I deny the existence of CMS control issues? No. Did I acknowledge as with other techs there appears to be a panel lottery here too? Yes. If you claim otherwise, present the proof, otherwise give this nonsense up and stop accusing me of things that are not true. You mistake my putting things in perspective with denial. They are two VERY different things. Do I need to explain?

I also wasn't aware until just now that we also have a 'thumbs up' police dept. Who knew?

But hey, at the end of the year, if AVS gives a Mr. Negative OLED Award, there might be five or so in serious contention. Wow!
Sum up what is wrong with the LG OLEDs in your opinion Ken. What are the issues.
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post #1227 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 09:15 AM
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Congratulations carlo46, you rocked it!
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post #1228 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 09:21 AM
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Sum up what is wrong with the LG OLEDs in your opinion Ken. What are the issues.
Didn't he just do that?
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post #1229 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguelronda View Post
They are not pefect, that's clear. However, they are the best screens on the market, and in my opinion, better than any Panasonic plasma. I have an OLED and 55VT50 and 50VT60, and put the OLED side by side a 55VT50 and the difference is tragicomic, independently calibration and DNR problems.
Wanting to compare these plasmas with that OLED screen is absurd, ridiculous, and only understandable from the point of view of those who have not had the chance to compare live as if I've done.
I am pretty shure that LCd and Plasma blacks are a thing of the past and i have no problem with that being mentioned over and over again, in fact it is important that folks understand that. But what is that worth when i watch a blu-ray on it in the dark and the guy who calibrated it for me can not get it right and having a sample with bad uniformity which ruins dark scenes in a dark room, returning it and getting another bad sample? i am happy for you but for lots of people the blacks alone is not enough..

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Originally Posted by ChadB
The EC9300's black level was absolutely black in every situation and test I ran. There was absolutely no glow in black areas of the picture, no matter what content was right next to it. I have never seen this good of contrast performance in any other display technology; not even in the contrast kings like the Sharp Elite, 9.5G Pioneer Kuro, or Panasonic ZT60. The 5x5 ANSI checkerboard measured infinitely low blacks and 28.5 fL white.
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post #1230 of 1360 Old 12-11-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Didn't he just do that?
partly..
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