Consumer Reports: LG 55EC9300 "Isn't the Best TV We've Ever Tested." - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 08:59 AM
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It is not that far to all the new 2015 models..


:-)

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post #242 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 09:10 AM
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So, if I do want to see all shades near black, I am left with mll of 0.03 cd/m2. If I throw away shade 17, I have a mll of 0.012 cd/m2... hmmm, so the 65VTW60 has a three times deeper black than the EC9300 OLED.
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post #243 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
The irony here is palpable. The people who want some of the performance qualities of the current OLED TVs to be improved before diving in could say the exact same thing you did, yet they get bashed.

So size, resolution, and price are acceptable criticisms. Motion resolution, forced DNR, uniformity, color accuracy, black crush, etc are not. Got it!
There is not the slightest bit of irony in what I said. It's almost impossible for me to believe you could have so twisted my meaning.

Screen size is not a defect. Requirements vary by viewing environment.

The absence of UHD is not a defect. Some don't place the same value in it that I do. I have a 4K videocanera, most do not.

But somehow you equate this to criticisms in performance. Got it.
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post #244 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
If Panasonic put out a display tomorrow with an LG Display sourced OLED panel equipped with their own electronics/video processing that featured accurate color, gamma and defeatable noise reduction would anyone still be arguing the merits of this LG panel?

I've argued for years that contrast/black level is the most important aspect impacting picture quality and that's why I'm so excited about the possibility OLED presents. That being said: there is no way I'd trade my 55" VT60 plasma for this 55" 9300 OLED. There are just too many areas where this LG falls down for it to be considered an elite display. I'm not giving LG a pass just because they are the only game in town-- I expect more from them. It''s not like anyone is saying this isn't a good display, CR and hdtvtest are just saying this is far from the best display. Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush to the defense of an obviously flawed product? Especially considering hdtvtest clearly points out that many of these flaws are evident in LG's LCD displays and thus attributable to the brand and not the display type.
Nobody is saying you should give LG a pass. That's a totally individual decision. I would gladly swap out my 64" FL 8500 for a 77" LG OLED even if it had the same issues. For me, a no-brainer.

As for professional reviews and their opinions, yes, some don't think it's the best display and other pros do. That's what makes horse racing. But once again, picking the LG over anything else does not make you one of those in the 'vivid crowd'.

It would appear that some here would categorize those buying the LG as 'vidiots'. Nonsense.
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post #245 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 09:46 AM
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When I read the title to this thread, my reaction was “So What?”.

There will always be a group of people who will let Consumer Reports make the decision for them regarding what to buy. There will also be a group of people who will let their eyes make the decision about which TV they should buy. I'm one of those people. That is why I chose the LG 9800 (the price made the choice between the 9800 and the 9300 very easy to make). There will be people whose eyes will select a different TV; that will be the right choice for them.

I understand differences of opinion. I have lots of them. But the ardency of the opinions expressed about the LG OLEDs is astounding particularly since many of those holding them don't seem to actually own the TV.

I think that Consumer Reports does a great job of testing products; and the accuracy of their testing is undisputed. A lack of bias in their ratings, however, does not exist. The weight that they assign to one criterion over another is often totally subjective to the reviewer. I seriously doubt that many people on this forum ever go the Consumer Reports for a determination of which TV, Blu Ray player or speaker system to buy. At least, I don't. So if they want to rate it #5 , that's fine with me. I have had the TV for almost a month and have zero buyer's remorse. Even my husband, who is a philistine on matters of TVs and sound, thinks this is the best picture he has ever seen.
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post #246 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peschiNL View Post
wow that LCD screen looks aweful. anyone know what model that was? thought LCD looked better these days.
It does. By a country mile. See attached pic of my Sony 55X9005B. (Colour's washed out due to camera settings.)
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post #247 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
So, if I do want to see all shades near black, I am left with mll of 0.03 cd/m2. If I throw away shade 17, I have a mll of 0.012 cd/m2... hmmm, so the 65VTW60 has a three times deeper black than the EC9300 OLED.

This is just not true. The only problem with shadow detail on these is uniformity, which I described in my review.


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post #248 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 10:39 AM
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So what setting do you recommend?


Shadow detail with that "uniformity issue" or a bit of black crush?
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post #249 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
It does. By a country mile. See attached pic of my Sony 55X9005B. (Colour's washed out due to camera settings.)

You need to turn the lights of, you can easily see and photographs the different black levels of displays.


Here a picture of Panasonic ST30 vs St60. The St30 has around 0.03 cd/m2.
The ST60 around: 0,006 cd/m2


The Sony 55 99b has 0,056 which (I think) is on the top end of the lcd tvs. So double the light output of the ST33.


So yes, putting an lcd next to an oled will look very bad for the lcd, most of if it is an IPS Panel. Even Lg shows this contrast.


http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55x...1405123771.htm
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post #250 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I couldn't have said it better Sage. I have been advocating for Panasonic or a CE with better processing acumen than LG to get into the OLED game but was told I am nothing but a plasma fanboy and that the processing on the LG sets is just great and that there is no evidence that Panasonic processing would be any better and that OLED is just not for me. I would put it that this incarnation of OLED is not for me. I have seen the 8800 and the 9300 and the DNR and motion issues are deal breakers for me. While I will never buy a curve, I can live with the screen uniformity issues provided they aren't visible with content including B&W. The WRGB panels look to be fine and that it is the processing that is the issue. I find it interesting that Ken rails against ABL on plasmas and yet objects when others complain about the issues with the LG OLED. ABL doesn't bother me and frankly, I never even notice it. I feel the same way about the DNR and the motion issues on the LG sets as Ken feels about ABL. Until it is fixed, I will just wait.
So the difference is, I can easily demonstrate ABL at typical viewing distances, you can't do the same with DNR at viewing distance. You may still claim it doesn't bother you, but I CAN demonstrate it. DNR? Not so much.

But hey, we do get it, we really do, the LG OLED is not for you. De ja vu all over again.

Me? I'm squarely in the 'vidiots' column.

BTW, I'm also amused by the Panasonic advocates that are 'sure' a Panasonic branded OLED will wipe out all the issues they feel exist with the LG and add none of their own. There is no such guarantee of that happening, let alone Panasonic ever coming out with their own version. But keep waiting...and waiting...and waiting.
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post #251 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
He was in the lucky situation, that his sample wasn't on the bluish side.
We have no idea if he was 'lucky' since we have very few data points. Maybe David was UNlucky to have his sample.

You guys will just bend over backwards, twist yourselves into pretzels, to turn anything positive about LG into something negative. It's extraordinary to watch.
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post #252 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
So, if I do want to see all shades near black, I am left with mll of 0.03 cd/m2. If I throw away shade 17, I have a mll of 0.012 cd/m2... hmmm, so the 65VTW60 has a three times deeper black than the EC9300 OLED.
I rest my case. Unreal.

Enjoy your LCD, you should be able to find something in the LCD world far superior to OLED.

This has become, without a doubt, one of the most useless threads I've seen on AVS in a long time.
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post #253 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
This is just not true. The only problem with shadow detail on these is uniformity, which I described in my review.


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Chad it is very obvious to me that 'truth' has little utility in this thread. But hey, we've got huge helpings of 'hyperbole'. Truly stunning. As I said, this thread should be euthanized.
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post #254 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I rest my case. Unreal.

Enjoy your LCD, you should be able to find something in the LCD world far superior to OLED.

This has become, without a doubt, one of the most useless threads I've seen on AVS in a long time.
I appreciate your extensive participation, I think it's a great discussion.

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post #255 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:22 AM
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^ Very funny.
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post #256 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Chad it is very obvious to me that 'truth' has little utility in this thread. But hey, we've got huge helpings of 'hyperbole'. Truly stunning. As I said, this thread should be euthanized.
Here's the link to Chad's review on ClevelandPlasma.com. Definitely worth adding his observations to the mix/conversation.

And here it is posted in AVS Forum... https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post27772953

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post #257 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
That's a good question Andy. As opposed to the cyan issue on the Sharp Elite, one would think including the ability to shut DNR off would be an exceedingly easy one. Only LG knows the answer.
Ken

I'd speculate that there are other image problems that using DNR hides. That's why they don't offer an on/off option for it.
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post #258 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
We have no idea if he was 'lucky' since we have very few data points. Maybe David was UNlucky to have his sample.

You guys will just bend over backwards, twist yourselves into pretzels, to turn anything positive about LG into something negative. It's extraordinary to watch.
I'm avoiding the LG at all costs. The LG logo looks funny. Hopefully Panasonic will fix this.
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post #259 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Chad it is very obvious to me that 'truth' has little utility in this thread. But hey, we've got huge helpings of 'hyperbole'. Truly stunning. As I said, this thread should be euthanized.
"we've got huge helpings of 'hyperbole'"
and
"Truly stunning."
and
"As I said, this thread should be euthanized."

Man, all that hyperbole. LOL! :-P
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post #260 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:33 AM
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And cutting to the chase in Chad's review:

"The EC9300 left me nearly speechless with it's amazingly lifelike, razor sharp image. There was tons of pop; unlike the LED LCD competition, the image looked punchy and exciting in both bright and dark movie scenes. Too often I am sent soaring with an LED's pop and punch in bright scenes, only to come crashing down to earth when a darker scene comes along with it's milky, fluctuating blacks. Not so with the EC9300.

I felt the image had a wonderfully smooth naturalness, which I referred to as "photorealistic" in my 9800 review. I saw great shadow detail overall; it was well balanced and neutral, though from my testing I knew it wasn't that good across the entire screen. When I looked for problems caused by the poor uniformity just above black, very occasionally I was able to see slight black crush in the upper left quadrant of the screen, but it was only because I was looking for it having seen issues with test patterns. I would never have noticed it otherwise, and my conclusion is that it was a non issue on my reference material. I was not able to pin down any confirmable sightings of the Dirty Screen Effect.

Motion could seem a bit choppy sometimes if I focused on it too much, but in the end I had no complaints.

Color was rendered beautifully; there was not even the slightest hint of the bluish dark shades or off whites mentioned previously. The combination of truly amazing contrast and very good color resulted in the most lifelike, realistic, and exciting image I've ever seen on a display.

In nearly every way, the EC9300 reminded me of the EA9800, which leaves me wondering if anything picture related was even changed. But that's not such a bad thing when, to quote my previous review, "the EA9800 is the best of the best, handily surpassing previous reference displays." That tradition continues with the seductively beautiful EC9300."

The reason I've highlighted some of Chad's conclusion is because it addresses nearly every one of the criticisms that 'non-owners' seem to have on every page of this and other threads. But I'm sure we'll be told that Chad's sample was an anomaly, a one of a kind.

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post #261 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'm avoiding the LG at all costs. The LG logo looks funny. Hopefully Panasonic will fix this.
They're working on it.
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post #262 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
"we've got huge helpings of 'hyperbole'"
and
"Truly stunning."
and
"As I said, this thread should be euthanized."

Man, all that hyperbole. LOL! :-P
I've found the only way to battle hyperbole is with hyperbole.

Thanks for noticing.
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post #263 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Ken

I'd speculate that there are other image problems that using DNR hides. That's why they don't offer an on/off option for it.
Jim, I suppose it's possible, but until we know for sure we can only guess.
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post #264 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Incredible...
All of the posts are just talking about video quality pros/cons..
They have failed to mention that the subject LG display is not HDMI certified..
So having issues with HDCP and HDMI CEC component interoperability is highly likely, especially if used with an AVR that has an HDMI repeater..
I can agree it is awesome to have the latest/greatest video performance features but...
without HDMI certification one may face some major system interface/operation issues..


Just my $0.02...
can you provide some documentation of this?

it seems unbelievable....er...incredible
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post #265 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
So the difference is, I can easily demonstrate ABL at typical viewing distances, you can't do the same with DNR at viewing distance. You may still claim it doesn't bother you, but I CAN demonstrate it. DNR? Not so much.

But hey, we do get it, we really do, the LG OLED is not for you. De ja vu all over again.

Me? I'm squarely in the 'vidiots' column.

BTW, I'm also amused by the Panasonic advocates that are 'sure' a Panasonic branded OLED will wipe out all the issues they feel exist with the LG and add none of their own. There is no such guarantee of that happening, let alone Panasonic ever coming out with their own version. But keep waiting...and waiting...and waiting.
Gee Ken you miss the point and forgot to add motion issues to boot. I have found the flat and curved LGs unwatchable because of the motion issues. I find it annoying and distracting just as you with ABL. I have sat with you at shootouts and you point to it and I say huh? As for DNR, it is obvious just looking at the picture. Not as noticeable at 10 feet away but once you see it you know it is there. See, ABL is necessary with plasma. Undefeatable DNR has no business in any display. You obviously cannot accept that I am annoyed by these issues but it is OK for you to be annoyed by ABL and not annoyed by the cyan error.
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post #266 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
There is not the slightest bit of irony in what I said. It's almost impossible for me to believe you could have so twisted my meaning.

Screen size is not a defect. Requirements vary by viewing environment.

The absence of UHD is not a defect. Some don't place the same value in it that I do. I have a 4K videocanera, most do not.

But somehow you equate this to criticisms in performance. Got it.
You really do have a hypersensitive spot about these LG OLED TVs. The thread doesn't go your way and doesn't have enough LG OLED cheerleading in it and you want to lock it since it's "worthless".

BTW. I never said that size was a defect. That's your total mischaracterization of what I said. I said that you think size is a valid criticism of the set would cause someone to not buy one. Who's the one throwing around hyperbole again?
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post #267 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'm avoiding the LG at all costs. The LG logo looks funny. Hopefully Panasonic will fix this.
why panasonic?
there LCD don't have a BFI without frame interpolation.
right now i don't see panasonic as a special brand for LCD/OLED.
I don't say there products are bad or something but they are not like there PLASMA panels. at least not yet.

and it's not like LG is the only brand that sells OLED.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-la...es-2014-a.html

this is most likely a LG panel but isn't this what we want?
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post #268 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:05 PM
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^ Very funny.
So what does that say about you and your extensive participation in this ''one of the most useless threads You've seen on AVS in a long time''? -> You've just checkmated yourself
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post #269 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
And cutting to the chase in Chad's review:

"The EC9300 left me nearly speechless with it's amazingly lifelike, razor sharp image. There was tons of pop; unlike the LED LCD competition, the image looked punchy and exciting in both bright and dark movie scenes. Too often I am sent soaring with an LED's pop and punch in bright scenes, only to come crashing down to earth when a darker scene comes along with it's milky, fluctuating blacks. Not so with the EC9300.

I felt the image had a wonderfully smooth naturalness, which I referred to as "photorealistic" in my 9800 review. I saw great shadow detail overall; it was well balanced and neutral, though from my testing I knew it wasn't that good across the entire screen. When I looked for problems caused by the poor uniformity just above black, very occasionally I was able to see slight black crush in the upper left quadrant of the screen, but it was only because I was looking for it having seen issues with test patterns. I would never have noticed it otherwise, and my conclusion is that it was a non issue on my reference material. I was not able to pin down any confirmable sightings of the Dirty Screen Effect.

Motion could seem a bit choppy sometimes if I focused on it too much, but in the end I had no complaints.

Color was rendered beautifully; there was not even the slightest hint of the bluish dark shades or off whites mentioned previously. The combination of truly amazing contrast and very good color resulted in the most lifelike, realistic, and exciting image I've ever seen on a display.

In nearly every way, the EC9300 reminded me of the EA9800, which leaves me wondering if anything picture related was even changed. But that's not such a bad thing when, to quote my previous review, "the EA9800 is the best of the best, handily surpassing previous reference displays." That tradition continues with the seductively beautiful EC9300."



The reason I've highlighted some of Chad's conclusion is because it addresses nearly every one of the criticisms that 'non-owners' seem to have on every page of this and other threads. But I'm sure we'll be told that Chad's sample was anomaly, a one of a kind.
Or he missed what HDTVtest & CR didn't?
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post #270 of 1360 Old 10-28-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
No Mark, ultimately the 'fans' of the EC9300 have chosen ultimate blacks & CR over other PQ parameters. They're just following what all the 'pros' have said for as many years as I've been on AVS.

It seems some of these gurus have moved MLL & CR from the top of their list to somewhere further down their list. It's now OK to go back to LCD with all of its warts as long as you get cyan right and make sure to implement a defeatable DNR that most can't see in the first place.
David Katzmeier is an expert that has remained consistent in prioritizing the criteria throughout all his reviews. I think he summed it up nicely here http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-55ec9300/2/:

"Picture quality
The most important component of picture quality is contrast ratio, and in that arena the LG 55EC9300 trounced the best TVs I had on hand for comparison. That's enough to make it the best-performing TV I've ever reviewed, but it doesn't equal picture-quality perfection.

The LG OLED lagged behind in its color accuracy and also fell short of their video processing prowess, showing more excessive judder at times. Uniformity was not perfect, albeit much better than LCD, and LG's passive 3D showed the same sorts of artifacts I've come to expect from non-4K TVs."

He definitely doesn't call it 'Perfect' and at the same time he manages not to falsely imply that people would be better off buying one of the LCDs or older plasmas. He achieves the balance rather gracefully and manages a more holistic look at the set and all its features better than anywhere else I've seen yet. Also using two reference displays (the ZT60 and Kuro) for his comparison shows that he wasn't holding back on comparing it to the best side by side either.
Ken Ross and agkss like this.
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