LG 65EC9700 OLED Owners Thread - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1475 Old 05-13-2015, 12:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jh87 View Post
not really. you have to learn to live with that. the new EG model has it too. see here
Actually you can fix this issue, this happens on RBG FULL outputs such as PS3/PS4/PC inputs. You need to change the black level to high (which allows RBG FULL) and calibrate as best as you can using websites like http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

You should be able to get the second box about 60% filled and the first box completely black, and it should give you nearly 100% black uniformity. If you try to get the first box visible you'll get that banding issue as seen in that forum topic.

For some reason, this display doesn't like 2% black level very well, it's almost as if its purposely making it darker.

Ideally the best way to calibrate black level is to simply get a 255 solid black background and turn the brightness up as high as you can until you notice banding, then drop it down 1 until its invisible. This should get you to at least 4% black level.

Last edited by Chase Payne; 05-13-2015 at 12:45 AM.
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post #1412 of 1475 Old 05-13-2015, 09:45 AM
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Actually you can fix this issue, this happens on RBG FULL outputs such as PS3/PS4/PC inputs. You need to change the black level to high (which allows RBG FULL) and calibrate as best as you can using websites like http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

You should be able to get the second box about 60% filled and the first box completely black, and it should give you nearly 100% black uniformity. If you try to get the first box visible you'll get that banding issue as seen in that forum topic.

For some reason, this display doesn't like 2% black level very well, it's almost as if its purposely making it darker.

Ideally the best way to calibrate black level is to simply get a 255 solid black background and turn the brightness up as high as you can until you notice banding, then drop it down 1 until its invisible. This should get you to at least 4% black level.
I am not sure this is true. I am seeing this in high or low with video streamed over chromecast coming in at 1080p. I am specifically referring to the opening scene from the first Sherlock Holmes movie, which is quite dark. I have played with brightness, OLED level, and contrast. I cannot get rid of the low level blotchy image without crushing blacks. I have not done a two point or twenty point calibration as I do not have the tools.
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post #1413 of 1475 Old 05-17-2015, 09:41 PM
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I just got this TV yesterday and I am amazed. My Elite blacks had turned reddish and it was time to move on.
At least now there is something a Kuro owner can be happy with
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post #1414 of 1475 Old 05-26-2015, 01:05 PM
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I have been playing with the pictures settings and cannot get it right. Couple of things to discuss.

I used the settings from different reviews only to find the picture washed out or flat.

Have any of you played with wide vs standard color gamut? It seems to me that wide can be good if you dial the color setting down. Wide seems more accurate to me by the eye test.

Has anyone got white calibrated with 2 point settings to a satisfactory level? This seems to be the key to getting the shadow detail correct.
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post #1415 of 1475 Old 05-26-2015, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mschoobs View Post
I have been playing with the pictures settings and cannot get it right. Couple of things to discuss.

I used the settings from different reviews only to find the picture washed out or flat.

Have any of you played with wide vs standard color gamut? It seems to me that wide can be good if you dial the color setting down. Wide seems more accurate to me by the eye test.

Has anyone got white calibrated with 2 point settings to a satisfactory level? This seems to be the key to getting the shadow detail correct.
Try this in expert1: Oled & contrast 90, brightness & color 60, sharpness v & h 20, edge enhancer on, wide color gamut, 20 pt, warm 2, high black, user motion 1 and 9, gamma 2.4,
everything else off.
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post #1416 of 1475 Old 05-26-2015, 01:42 PM
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Try this in expert1: Oled & contrast 90, brightness & color 60, sharpness v & h 20, edge enhancer on, wide color gamut, 20 pt, warm 2, high black, user motion 1 and 9, gamma 2.4,
everything else off.
That high color setting with wide doesn't look too over saturated?
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post #1417 of 1475 Old 05-26-2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring5 View Post
Try this in expert1: Oled & contrast 90, brightness & color 60, sharpness v & h 20, edge enhancer on, wide color gamut, 20 pt, warm 2, high black, user motion 1 and 9, gamma 2.4,
everything else off.
That high color setting with wide doesn't look too over saturated?
No
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post #1418 of 1475 Old 05-26-2015, 08:12 PM
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I bet it does. Should give you some kind of Disney Land.

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post #1419 of 1475 Old 05-27-2015, 02:34 AM
 
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That high color setting with wide doesn't look too over saturated?
60 color is about the point where a blue filter color pattern will tell a person to set everything on these LG OLEDs. But what a lot of people don't realize is that pattern only equalizes color luminance and adjusting a TV's "color" setting has a secondary effect of increasing saturation. In the standard gamut, where saturation is supposed to conform to Rec 709, that's an adequate way to set "color". In wide though, colors are saturated beyond Rec 709 with anything above ~35 color. Luminance will be way off if you set color to properly saturate colors and luminance is arguably the more important characteristic of color. You'll either get oversaturated properly luminant colors or properly saturated underluminant colors, wide's just not appropriate for accurate color reproduction. But if you're forced to use the wide gamut, 50 color would probably deliver a good compromise between saturation and luminance (neither will be correct, but neither will be massively incorrect either).

With all that said, I have had to calibrate my EG9600 using the wide gamut because the standard gamut doesn't fully saturate yellow. The TV's built-in CMS is inadequate to make the wide gamut conform to Rec 709 (HD color gamut) - not only does it not offer a large enough adjustment range for saturation and luminance, it also adds artifacts to the image with even the slightest amount of adjustment. So I have a separate video processor doing the necessary color correction. It's a real shame that the TV requires this, but products like the Lumagen Radiance exist for a reason

Not everyone cares about accurate colors though, and I suppose if someone can tolerate 60 color in the wide color gamut and no CMS or 3D LUT color correction, they don't.

I'd actually be more concerned with the OLED Light and Contrast set to 90. That's going to destroy above white detail and the ABL will become a major nuisance. Colors will visibly shift when the image goes beyond a certain brightness. 78 is the highest you can set contrast on these TVs with black level set to Low and preserve the full video range. With black level set to High, you can set contrast as high as you want, but near black gamma performance is really messed up and the image gets washed out. A lot of people call this "preserving shadow detail", but it's really just boosting gamma near black.
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post #1420 of 1475 Old 05-27-2015, 04:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschoobs View Post
I am not sure this is true. I am seeing this in high or low with video streamed over chromecast coming in at 1080p. I am specifically referring to the opening scene from the first Sherlock Holmes movie, which is quite dark. I have played with brightness, OLED level, and contrast. I cannot get rid of the low level blotchy image without crushing blacks. I have not done a two point or twenty point calibration as I do not have the tools.
There are two issues at play here, first you can't ideally set brightness to a point where video level 17 is not crushed without introducing strange black behavior without a proper calibration. A simple two-point that subtracts some bias from the low-end will fix this up and then you can set brightness much higher before it starts messing with the picture performance.

The other issue is signal noise. You're going to notice this sort of problem on poorly compressed video sources a lot (e.g. cable TV or streaming), the TV's MPEG noise reduction helps a little bit, but there are some movies I absolutely cannot watch on my EG9600 without turning brightness down two clicks. 2.4 gamma helps but won't completely eliminate the problem. The only consolation I can give you is that when put side-by-side against my VT60, the noisy part of the signal discussed here is at a level of black that plasma can't even display. So you're not really losing out on anything that you'd ordinarily see by crushing that part of the signal. The bottom 5% or so isn't visible on most display devices because of the way gamma works.
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post #1421 of 1475 Old 05-27-2015, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jh87 View Post
I have done multiple calibration myself to find the best settings. I will say it is tricky to get the best of shadow details. Few clicks up or down in brightness change the shadow details quite differently. It is like the brightness level not linear at all. In the end, I have to crush blacks slightly. Some movies look fantastic with great shadow, but then with the same setting, other material do not look as good. I would not say the EC9700 has poor shadow details. it is just hard to describe it. Maybe that is why some people either return the LG 4K set or already had multiple replacement, while others do not feel the same at all.
You're absolutely right about that. Out of the box, gamma is an absolute mess. You may think you're getting 2.4 when you select the 2.4 option in ISF Expert, but it's anything but. Even after a 2-point white balance the gamma flat point can be off by as much as +/- 0.3. So that's either 2.1 gamma (massively washed out near black image) or 2.7 gamma (massively crushed near black). It largely depends on what black level setting you have, black level High likes to blow out black and black level Low likes to crush it even after a 2-point white balance sorts out the top 70% of the gamma curve.

The rest of the gamma curve is pretty consistent, but it's imperative to get proper black performance on these TVs that you fix up IRE 5-20 to match the rest of the gamma curve. It's quite bizarre really, I have a cheap Panasonic GT30 next to my EG9600 and I can spend about 45 minutes on its 2-point white balance and get relatively flat gamma (good thing too, because it doesn't have anything more advanced), but this TV requires a 2-point and then to fix up what the 2-point broke some fiddling with the 20-point.

That particular aspect of black performance would be worth a professional calibration. Some of these other issues being discussed, I'm not so sure.

I'll add some CalMAN charts that show the out-of-the-box gamma curve when I get home tonight, it's quite telling.

UPDATE:

This is how my TV looked (after 600 hours) with the factory preset values (only change was gamma 2.2 -> 2.4).

In the Gamma Log/Log graph, if the TV were doing 2.4 gamma properly all the way through the signal range, it would be a flat graph. But instead at around 10% stimulus gamma goes way up almost to 3.0. Counter-intuitively, if gamma is high, it means the image is going to be dimmer than it ought to be. Effectively, the TV takes much longer to "come out of black" than it's supposed to in the default white balance and if you use the nightmare of a pattern on the AVS 709 disc that blinks to set your brightness you can easily overshoot things because there's not a rapid enough change in brightness to figure out where the bottom is. I strongly suggest for one thing you don't use that stupid blinking pattern to set brightness on this TV, use a proper static PLUGE pattern.

Also, at the high-end gamma dips and the default white balance exagerates white detail. This problem is minor compared to the black crushing going on at the other end, but it's still something that you want to have worked out with a proper calibration to get optimal image performance.

Last, I've attached an image that shows what happens if you do a simple 2-point white balance and try to leave it at that. The TV again pushes gamma way up at the bottom 5-20% of the signal, and you have to go in with the 20-point white balance and fight with the TV to keep it from doing what it was engineered to do (crush black) with black level set to Low. A professional calibrator would never leave it at just a 2-point white balance, but the point I'm trying to get at here is that even when you fix up the top 70-80% of the signal, the TV is designed to work differently for the bottom 20%. It absolutely wants to do the opposite of whatever you want it to
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Last edited by Kaldaien; 05-27-2015 at 10:47 AM.
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post #1422 of 1475 Old 05-30-2015, 06:25 AM
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Hello everyone. I just bought a 65 970ec (Rome, Italy) .... I am trying the setting for this TV ... What do you advise me? ... 20 points white?... Or only 2 points? Before I had the OLED 55-inch ...
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post #1423 of 1475 Old 05-30-2015, 08:30 PM
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post #1424 of 1475 Old 05-31-2015, 03:34 AM
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Ok... But a base setting to starting?... When I had 55 oled I like the Internet setting ... And it was perfect....
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post #1425 of 1475 Old 05-31-2015, 10:47 PM
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Here is a good starting point. The review will cover settings in a embedded video. I tweaked some settings from this review and I am very happy with pq.

https://www.avforums.com/review/lg-6...0-review.11299
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post #1426 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 12:42 AM
 
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Ok... But a base setting to starting?... When I had 55 oled I like the Internet setting ... And it was perfect....
I doubt it, copy settings is more likely to make everything worse.

I would start with 2 point calibration first, since a properly calibrated 2 point can pretty much fix the entire grayscale to acceptable ranges of 1-4 delta E and only takes like 10 minutes to fix. 20 point on the other hand, if you're super serious with it then it can take like 2 hours. 20 point is the only way you can fix the gamma curve. 2 point is good enough to get it within acceptable ranges to make it look much better than defaults.

You're really not going to get anything right until you get a calibration device, even the cheap ones that aren't as great as the $10,000 ones will improve your display quality significantly. I was able to calibrate mine using http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457, it took me about 3 hours; it looks so much better.

A professional will always do better than a do it yourself, but when you learn how to do it yourself it becomes pretty much a hobby; you can get your display looking much better even if it's not technically perfect.

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post #1427 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 12:47 AM
 
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You're absolutely right about that. Out of the box, gamma is an absolute mess. You may think you're getting 2.4 when you select the 2.4 option in ISF Expert, but it's anything but. Even after a 2-point white balance the gamma flat point can be off by as much as +/- 0.3. So that's either 2.1 gamma (massively washed out near black image) or 2.7 gamma (massively crushed near black). It largely depends on what black level setting you have, black level High likes to blow out black and black level Low likes to crush it even after a 2-point white balance sorts out the top 70% of the gamma curve.
I've been reading up online, some people suggest a completely flat gamma curve is bad and you really should be increasing it slightly from 1.8 to 2.2-2.4 in the high range. Actually it appears there is a whole battle between calibrators for 2.2 vs 2.5.

I don't know much since I am not a professional, but when I calibrated my 10 IRE at 2.2 gamma, it pretty much made it harder to see the black level test. I would rather have it at a higher gamma and then slowly increase to 2.2. (Since I am a video gamer, 2.2 gamma is very important as most of my video games are dark.)

Also my Gamma wasn't that bad. Out of the box, 2.4 gamma was actually 2.3, and 2.2 was around 2.1

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post #1428 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 10:08 AM
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Hi.... I have PS4 as br player and Sky and a sound bar

I have connected:

Sky................hdmi 1
Sound bar ....hdmi 2
PS4 ............... Hdmi 3 (10 bit)

So when i turn on the PS4 the oled TV says ..... "Deep color not avaiable for this device....." ..... So PS4 is it compatible?.... Or not?.... I have to change the hdmi?.... Or simply Just have to off the UHD del colour of hdmi 3?


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk
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post #1429 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mikimoto01 View Post
Hi.... I have PS4 as br player and Sky and a sound bar

I have connected:

Sky................hdmi 1
Sound bar ....hdmi 2
PS4 ............... Hdmi 3 (10 bit)

So when i turn on the PS4 the oled TV says ..... "Deep color not avaiable for this device....." ..... So PS4 is it compatible?.... Or not?.... I have to change the hdmi?.... Or simply Just have to off the UHD del colour of hdmi 3?


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Turn off deep color for port 3.
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post #1430 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 06:11 PM
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A professional will always do better than a do it yourself, .
I beg to differ!
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post #1431 of 1475 Old 06-02-2015, 10:21 PM
 
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I beg to differ!
Someoone with a $10,000 spectrometer and years of experience is going to do better than you with limited experience and cheaper hardware.

If you happen to have that spectrometer, then I wouldn't call you an average joe; you'd be a professional at that point. I don't see why a regular user who doesn't do tv calbirations would spend $10,000 on a meter just for one TV.

I
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A professional doesn't know every TV model. He doesn't have the heartblood that I have for my very own TV. He wouldn't get IRE 5 alone on my LG plasma as pitch perfect as I managed to do, let alone the rest. He wouldn't even had the amount of time necessary to do so.

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post #1433 of 1475 Old 06-03-2015, 10:03 AM
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Someoone with a $10,000 spectrometer and years of experience is going to do better than you with limited experience and cheaper hardware.

If you happen to have that spectrometer, then I wouldn't call you an average joe; you'd be a professional at that point. I don't see why a regular user who doesn't do tv calbirations would spend $10,000 on a meter just for one TV.

I
Well, I'd rather spend the $10K on a spectro than leave it to my wife to spend on her next husband.
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JimP.... Ahahahah

Where can I found 4k videos on Web?.... Not YouTube... For me YouTube not so good... I want to test my new TV whit a reference 4k videos... Thanks
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New 65EG9600 Owner Question

Hi all,
Just got my new 65EG9600 and am watching Marco Polo on Netflix in 4k. About every 10m the audio and subtitles bar pops to for no reason, is there a known fix for this? It's very annoying for a $9k TV.
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post #1436 of 1475 Old 06-05-2015, 06:32 AM
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It's a known bug when using streaming services (Amazon, Netflix) on the EG9600 that LG has yet to fix. Nothing you can do.

And you should have posted here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...600-4k-51.html

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post #1437 of 1475 Old 06-05-2015, 07:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by New LG OLED owner View Post
Hi all,
Just got my new 65EG9600 and am watching Marco Polo on Netflix in 4k. About every 10m the audio and subtitles bar pops to for no reason, is there a known fix for this? It's very annoying for a $9k TV.
Yeah, every TV has this problem. I have had thousand dollar TV's and cheap one, all the same. The internal software is glitchy, really slow and aggregating. I would invest in something like Roku/AppleTv/Amazon/Video Game Consoles as they are a lot more stable. If you get a PS4 right now, it will support 4k blu ray playback when the software upgrade comes out; so something to look into, plus having the bonus of playing games if you want or for the kids.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Payne View Post
Yeah, every TV has this problem. I have had thousand dollar TV's and cheap one, all the same. The internal software is glitchy, really slow and aggregating. I would invest in something like Roku/AppleTv/Amazon/Video Game Consoles as they are a lot more stable. If you get a PS4 right now, it will support 4k blu ray playback when the software upgrade comes out; so something to look into, plus having the bonus of playing games if you want or for the kids.
No it Wont but the new ps4 thats going to be shown at E3 might be able to.
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post #1439 of 1475 Old 06-05-2015, 11:00 AM
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Well, I'd rather spend the $10K on a spectro than leave it to my wife to spend on her next husband.
If she reads this, she'll demand it in the divorce.
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post #1440 of 1475 Old 06-05-2015, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mikimoto01 View Post
JimP.... Ahahahah

Where can I found 4k videos on Web?.... Not YouTube... For me YouTube not so good... I want to test my new TV whit a reference 4k videos... Thanks
If you didn't find these already:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...ay-stores.html

Specifically, the ones you can download on the google drive linked here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post31053930
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