LG Shows Expanded 4K UHD OLED Lineup at CES 2015 - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
The color of the ice at a hockey game is not the result of ABL on a plasma. Properly calibrated it looks like it does live. I know you see ABL. I don't and have never seen the phosphor trails either.
I'm not talking about the color of the ice relative to ABL, just that ABL exists. ABL is a fact and not subject to debate...whether you see it or not.
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post #122 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 12:52 PM
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Has this been posted?

Swedish target prices (incl 25% sales tax) for EG/EF:
http://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?s...&id=1420661256

Lowest store price in Sweden for EC930, currently 19000 SEK, is half the target price of 55EF9500...
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Last edited by ipac; 01-08-2015 at 12:58 PM.
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post #123 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by forlorn View Post
Not sure why you'd have to explain this. It's marketing 101. Wait for the shootout if you want a more objective environment.
I'm not sure either, but some question LG every step of the way.
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post #124 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'm not talking about the color of the ice relative to ABL, just that ABL exists. ABL is a fact and not subject to debate...whether you see it or not.
Duh Ken, I know it is. I just never notice it or have never been bothered by it. I have never seen a white field in a screen suddenly drop in brightness as a result of ABL. That happens so fast, at least for me, that I just assumed that the white color is supposed to look the way that it does. I don't sit there thinking, gee, that white should be brighter. As a result, ABL is of no concern to me. Of course, it is to you, which is fine of course. I am not denying ABL,just that the color of ice on a hockey broadcast is not affected by it.

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post #125 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ipac View Post
Has this been posted?

Swedish target prices (incl 25% sales tax) for EG/EF:
http://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?s...&id=1420661256

Lowest store price in Sweden for EC930, currently 19000 SEK, is half the target price of 55EF9500...
So according to this the 77" will be approximately $40,000USD (pretax)?
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post #126 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Have a Pro 110 and Pro 150, I've never seen any phosphor trail either.

The HVS isn't the same for everyone. It's well documented that red and green phosphors used in PDP displays are orders of magnitude slower than blue. Some people can observe the artifacts created due to the speed difference, while others cannot.


Benham's top is an interesting test - http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col-Benham/index.html


ABL being bothersome on a PDP or OLED is subjective, but it's existence is certain!

Last edited by rgb32; 01-08-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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post #127 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Have a Pro 110 and Pro 150, I've never seen any phosphor trail either.

I've witnessed phosphor trails on Panasonic plasma's and dirty gray or urinated on whites.

BTW Jwhip - ice in and of itself is not white of course but if you fill an arena that has sides/bottom and above is white and white overhead lights then you can easily see white or whatever surface coloring resides under it - perhaps your Arena has dirty surrounds/bottom.

Also, my Panny Plasma could never truly show white - ocean wake on a caribbean island is pure white as is the snow cliffs on a sunny day while skiing and I've been to both numerous times and they NEVER appeared dirty gray or yellowish as they did on the plasma I owned briefly or in the store. Saying it's gray FOR ALL Arena's is assuming every arena in the NHL or Ice Show uses the same surround/foundation is a ridiculous assumption.

One of the long lived complaints with most plasma's were it's dim, dull dirty/urinated on Whites. Pick up an ice cube and yes it's translucent yet place it in front of a white background and it becomes WHITE and place a spotlight highlighting it and it becomes Whiter usually.

Plasma is where it belongs - RIP! But enjoy yours.

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post #128 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 01:21 PM
 
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Hopefully, OLED will eventually put LCD where it belongs (unless QD emissive tech ever becomes practical).
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post #129 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Duh Ken, I know it is. I just never notice it or have never been bothered by it. I have never seen a white field in a screen suddenly drop in brightness as a result of ABL. That happens so fast, at least for me, that I just assumed that the white color is supposed to look the way that it does. I don't sit there thinking, gee, that white should be brighter. As a result, ABL is of no concern to me. Of course, it is to you, which is fine of course. I am not denying ABL,just that the color of ice on a hockey broadcast is not affected by it.
It's funny. I am 100% aware of ABL on AT&T commercials where they end with a nearly full white field and it's actually hard not to notice the brightness drop off a bit (albeit just a bit).

That said, I watched a ton of Sochi, a number of movies with snow and routinely see hockey highlights on my local news. And I don't believe the brightness dropped (drops) off during any of them. Is it moving some indiscernible amount? Perhaps. But none of those have "peak white" taking up enough of the screen to matter enough to really cause an ABL effect.

I actually spent some time testing this (not for a while) using my laptop screen as a proxy for a "zero ABL" screen. Again, this was unmetered, but my eyes are not exactly a terrible "meter" and they know the truth.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #130 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I've witnessed phosphor trails on Panasonic plasma's and dirty gray or urinated on whites.

BTW Jwhip - ice in and of itself is not white of course but if you fill an arena that has sides/bottom and above is white and white overhead lights then you can easily see white or whatever surface coloring resides under it - perhaps your Arena has dirty surrounds/bottom.

Also, my Panny Plasma could never truly show white - ocean wake on a caribbean island is pure white as is the snow cliffs on a sunny day while skiing and I've been to both numerous times and they NEVER appeared dirty gray or yellowish as they did on the plasma I owned briefly or in the store. Saying it's gray FOR ALL Arena's is assuming every arena in the NHL or Ice Show uses the same surround/foundation is a ridiculous assumption.

One of the long lived complaints with most plasma's were it's dim, dull dirty/urinated on Whites. Pick up an ice cube and yes it's translucent yet place it in front of a white background and it becomes WHITE and place a spotlight highlighting it and it becomes Whiter usually.

Plasma is where it belongs - RIP! But enjoy yours.
I see the phosphor trails on my Pany. My wife thinks I am crazy. However, even she can see image retention on the plasma.
Unfortunately, our plasma will stay in place until I can get my hands on one of these.

Working on the next one...
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post #131 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I've witnessed phosphor trails on Panasonic plasma's and dirty gray or urinated on whites.

BTW Jwhip - ice in and of itself is not white of course but if you fill an arena that has sides/bottom and above is white and white overhead lights then you can easily see white or whatever surface coloring resides under it - perhaps your Arena has dirty surrounds/bottom.

Also, my Panny Plasma could never truly show white - ocean wake on a caribbean island is pure white as is the snow cliffs on a sunny day while skiing and I've been to both numerous times and they NEVER appeared dirty gray or yellowish as they did on the plasma I owned briefly or in the store. Saying it's gray FOR ALL Arena's is assuming every arena in the NHL or Ice Show uses the same surround/foundation is a ridiculous assumption.

One of the long lived complaints with most plasma's were it's dim, dull dirty/urinated on Whites. Pick up an ice cube and yes it's translucent yet place it in front of a white background and it becomes WHITE and place a spotlight highlighting it and it becomes Whiter usually.

Plasma is where it belongs - RIP! But enjoy yours.
Hopefully LCD will make there too someday westa

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post #132 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks. Mike, that's what I thought and that's why I was really disappointed with your other post.

Maybe you were just frustrated.
Yep. Very.

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post #133 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliRaftDude View Post
While I am tremendously excited about the OLED 4k sets from LG (although I really wish more vendors would enter this space to push the competition for processing, features, and cost) - the coolest thing I am hearing from CES so far is:

http://www.picobrew.com/Shop/productdetails.cshtml/0#

Clearly should be part of any new Home Theater build....
LOL, that's amazing.

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Mike, given the content they were playing, there's no way you could pick up that kind of uniformity issue. If Mark saw otherwise, we will agree to strongly disagree.
What about this video with half red and half white?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH9EZddoNp8#t=1m39s

Should be possible to see if there are any red/green tint issues on the white half of the TVs. I don't seen any tint on the video, but it's only off angle so difficult to see. Anyone at the CES who took a look?

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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Every curved OLED I have seen here or Europe has it and it is very clear. However, I will let you and Ken battle that one out. I just hope that your next one is as clean as a whistle. If I were you and unless I needed a TV, I would wait for the flat one.
LG need to fix stuff that is broken, as easy as that. And for that to happen ppl need to keep mentioning those issues.
As seen in the following avforums interview where avforums writer Stever Withers mentioned the tint, DNR and CMS/calibration problems to a LG product manager.
Not surprisingly, the LG rep denied all of it, though he probably didn't know any better anyways. Would have been interesting to hear Tim Alessi's answer, the guy who promised at the shootout that the DNR problem would be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
As most owners who have the tint have said, they have difficulty seeing it with most real content. There was no full field gray slides. Surprising, I know.
Seeing the tint when winter sports is on is enough to annoy me. Of course you won't see it as clearly on other material with less bright screens.

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thank you. I am so tired of some posters that salivate over anything negative. I pointed out in several threads that not only is some of the darkening the result of the camera that took the picture, but in some pictures it's clearly in the source. The picture that shows a comparison of an Elite to an OLED with the same source, shows a darkening in BOTH displays, although the OLED shows more darkening.

I own the Elite and I can state unequivocally there is no darkening on that display. So the only way the darkening can exist in the picture, is if it's in the source or is being introduced by the camera.
I can't deny the possibility that the issues might be exaggerated by certain material and/or cameras, but the issues DO exist as confirmed by 2 (or 3?) owners so far.

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post #134 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I've witnessed phosphor trails on Panasonic plasma's and dirty gray or urinated on whites.
Urinated??? Sorry, but maybe you should have calibrated your plasma then.

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post #135 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 07:17 PM
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post #136 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 07:43 PM
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Would like to replace an aging 32" LCD with a 32" OLED but it does not exist. Could LG produce this size or is there a technical limitation that prohibits it?
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post #137 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 07:56 PM
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I got to see the LG OLED Tvs at CES today as well and I was very impressed. I was leaning toward several of the other 4K LCD Tvs as my TV to replace a quickly dying Samsung Plasma, but after today I really need to get the 77" OLED. Now the big question is can LG finally deliver the TV by Q3 of 2015 and can I get it for less than 10K.
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post #138 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Would like to replace an aging 32" LCD with a 32" OLED but it does not exist. Could LG produce this size or is there a technical limitation that prohibits it?
I'm sure they can, the market is not there for a 32" OLED though. It would cost significantly more compared to other 32" LCDs since no high end market exists for that size these days.

When OLED gets closer to normal LCD prices, then I expect LG will invest in producing smaller sizes.
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post #139 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I've witnessed phosphor trails on Panasonic plasma's and dirty gray or urinated on whites.

BTW Jwhip - ice in and of itself is not white of course but if you fill an arena that has sides/bottom and above is white and white overhead lights then you can easily see white or whatever surface coloring resides under it - perhaps your Arena has dirty surrounds/bottom.

Also, my Panny Plasma could never truly show white - ocean wake on a caribbean island is pure white as is the snow cliffs on a sunny day while skiing and I've been to both numerous times and they NEVER appeared dirty gray or yellowish as they did on the plasma I owned briefly or in the store. Saying it's gray FOR ALL Arena's is assuming every arena in the NHL or Ice Show uses the same surround/foundation is a ridiculous assumption.

One of the long lived complaints with most plasma's were it's dim, dull dirty/urinated on Whites. Pick up an ice cube and yes it's translucent yet place it in front of a white background and it becomes WHITE and place a spotlight highlighting it and it becomes Whiter usually.

Plasma is where it belongs - RIP! But enjoy yours.

Nostalgia - Westa complaining about plasma. Makes me feel young again.

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post #140 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Duh Ken, I know it is. I just never notice it or have never been bothered by it. I have never seen a white field in a screen suddenly drop in brightness as a result of ABL. That happens so fast, at least for me, that I just assumed that the white color is supposed to look the way that it does. I don't sit there thinking, gee, that white should be brighter. As a result, ABL is of no concern to me. Of course, it is to you, which is fine of course. I am not denying ABL,just that the color of ice on a hockey broadcast is not affected by it.
With some plasmas I don't have to focus on it at all, the drop in brightness as the white field increases is very obvious to me. But we've been around this block a few hundred times.

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post #141 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Yappadappadu View Post

What about this video with half red and half white?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH9EZddoNp8#t=1m39s
You tell me? I don't see it in that video, and more importantly I didn't see it live standing in front of that wall of OLEDs. I can also tell you I didn't hear one person there commenting on uniformity issues.
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post #142 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarCRO View Post
I got to see the LG OLED Tvs at CES today as well and I was very impressed. I was leaning toward several of the other 4K LCD Tvs as my TV to replace a quickly dying Samsung Plasma, but after today I really need to get the 77" OLED. Now the big question is can LG finally deliver the TV by Q3 of 2015 and can I get it for less than 10K.
I guess you didn't see those uniformity issues either.

I think a few here think I just deny seeing issues that I really can see. Fortunately I think most here know me better than that. I have two great displays, but I'll be the first to admit there are now better ones out there.
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post #143 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:36 PM
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Would like to replace an aging 32" LCD with a 32" OLED but it does not exist. Could LG produce this size or is there a technical limitation that prohibits it?
There are probably some very expensive professional OLED monitors at that size. For consumer OLED to get down to that size, it will have to mean OLED has displaced LCD. That is a long way down the road.

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Now the big question is can LG finally deliver the TV by Q3 of 2015 and can I get it for less than 10K.
Yes, barring unforeseen development. No, barring unforeseen development.
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post #144 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:37 PM
 
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You tell me? I don't see it in that video, and more importantly I didn't see it live standing in front of that wall of OLEDs. I can also tell you I didn't hear one person there commenting on uniformity issues.
Only other alleged complaint is by the OP of this thread...would be nice to hear an expatiation of that claim.
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post #145 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I guess you didn't see those uniformity issues either.

I think a few here think I just deny seeing issues that I really can see. Fortunately I think most here know me better than that. I have two great displays, but I'll be the first to admit there are now better ones out there.
No uniformity issues and amazing viewing angles as well. The LG OLED Tvs were much more impressive in person than in pictures or video. I took pictures both with my iPhone 5s and a better Sony Camera and in both cases they didn't do the actual TV pictures justice. I am sure that there are some tricks being pulled with the demo material they are presenting and the settings on the TV, but my cameras captures looked much worse than the real thing.
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post #146 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 09:52 PM
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Yes, barring unforeseen development. No, barring unforeseen development.
So you think they will be out by the End of Q3 2015, and yet it will be more than $10k for a 77-in LG OLED? (not the flex one as that will have an extra premium on it). I thought in person the curve was quite small on both the curved 77in and the flex one in curved mode.

I have a feeling though the higher-end 4K Samsung and Sony TVs in the 75-80" will be quite a bit below that price by the big Q42015 Buying season. It will be a very tough sell at a large premium for the LG OLED. They certainly won't sell 600k Displays by the end of the 2015 if they have a large premium.
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post #147 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarCRO View Post
So you think they will be out by the End of Q3 2015, and yet it will be more than $10k for a 77-in LG OLED? (not the flex one as that will have an extra premium on it). I thought in person the curve was quite small on both the curved 77in and the flex one in curved mode.

I have a feeling though the higher-end 4K Samsung and Sony TVs in the 75-80" will be quite a bit below that price by the big Q42015 Buying season. It will be a very tough sell at a large premium for the LG OLED. They certainly won't sell 600k Displays by the end of the 2015 if they have a large premium.
IMO, regardless of price, a very small amount of the 600K sales (if they sell that much) will be the 77". That's still a very niche size for TVs, so LG may not be as motivated to bring down the price on it. It will heavily depend on yields and what Samsung prices their flagship at.

I think seeing the 77" under $10K this year is very wishful thinking, but we'll see.
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post #148 of 275 Old 01-08-2015, 11:47 PM
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IMO, regardless of price, a very small amount of the 600K sales (if they sell that much) will be the 77". That's still a very niche size for TVs, so LG may not be as motivated to bring down the price on it. It will heavily depend on yields and what Samsung prices their flagship at.

I think seeing the 77" under $10K this year is very wishful thinking, but we'll see.
I think I read/saw somewhere that last years model was $24000 list - I realize none exist, so its hard to tell if this was stale information that was never updated because they never really released the display. Dropping the price 60% plus seems pretty drastic to me as well. It will be interesting to see where the battle goes, for all intents they can probably put a small premium above where a (?)UHD 4K LCD is but multiple thousands, I think, will push all but the most demanding. I imagine the pricing on the 55" and 65" will probably be very competitively priced against the 4K LCDs in that size and the 77" will get some additional premium on that.

I'd like the 77, but I am sure I will survive with a 65" if they drop to around $5K

btw - thanks for all the "reporting", these forums have always been a far better source of research than anywhere else.
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post #149 of 275 Old 01-09-2015, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wicklow View Post
So according to this the 77" will be approximately $40,000USD (pretax)?
For the EG990, yes.

It usually work very well to multiply US target prices by 10 to estimate the Swedish target prices (for example, the $399 PS4 is 3990 SEK over here). Using the same logic, dividing Swedish target prices by 10 to get US target prices should get you in the right ballpark at least.

However, for some reason we have very cheap OLED tvs over here. At least store prices, don't know the target price for EC930 (the EA970 is even cheaper), but about $3500-4000 and $6000-6500 for the EF models (who cares about the curved ones? ) sounds likely, no?
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Last edited by ipac; 01-09-2015 at 12:37 AM.
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post #150 of 275 Old 01-09-2015, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Has anyone seen the up scaling ability of these new 4k displays with the HD or SD material?

Any word on support for rec2020 color gamut?
The word is there's still no such thing as a TV that can reach rec. 2020

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