Pricing for new LG OLEDs revealed - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 804Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1351 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 06:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sillysally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,146
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 1051
This is a interesting fact on LG OLED web page (.com US).

The new 2015 (webOS2) 65EG9600 is showing a MSRP of $8999.99

There still is no MSRP for the 77EG9700 (webOS) that seems to have been released.

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
LG77C8, Klein K10-A, Jeti 1211, CMS Lightspace, Calman home plus licence for K10-A, Murideo 6G.
sillysally is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1352 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 06:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
swanlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,481
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 480 Post(s)
Liked: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Well, the prices are out and B&H's prices were accurate. $4999.99 for the 55" flat 4K (seeing as they were accurate on the curved models). Ouch .


I did ask in the thread earlier, but how many are takers @ $5K for the 55" now that the prices are legit?


Dunno how they plan to move 600k this year LOL...

My limit now for the 55inch is $3500 and even that is really stretching it, no way on earth I'm dropping 5k for a 55 inch. If it can hit $3500 this year I'll get it if not then come Xmas I'll get a high quality 4k LED/LCD 55 inch for probably $2500 or less.


So the countdown is on, tick tock tick tock. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to have to skip OLED it is probably not going to achieve a viable price in the window that I'm going to upgrade my current 1080P LCD.


It's a shame cause I do like the technology but no way I'm paying 2 X more for OLED over LCD
swanlee is offline  
post #1353 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 06:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
This is a interesting fact on LG OLED web page (.com US).

The new 2015 (webOS2) 65EG9600 is showing a MSRP of $8999.99

There still is no MSRP for the 77EG9700 (webOS) that seems to have been released.

ss
Pretty sure that's $25,000.
Ken Ross is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1354 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 06:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jogiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,532
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked: 518
The 65" 4K LG OLED is $8,999 compared to the 55" 1080p OLED for $14,000 in 2013 that is now $3,499 !

jogiba is offline  
post #1355 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 07:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SledgeHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,291
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1135 Post(s)
Liked: 393
Thing that people are forgetting is that a top of the line 2015 Quantum Dot / HDR / FALD LCD is in the $4K ballpark MSRP too. So there isn't really much of an "OLED tax" and OLED will mop the floors with that $4K LCD.


That's kind of how I'm looking at it at least .


I dunno... I kind of consider $4k and $5k about the same in the scheme of a one time purchase, so I'd rather pay a little bit extra and get the 9/10 vs. save a bit of $$$ and get a 5 - 6.


Sad truth is, and I think Ken will agree is that OLED makes a 10 LCD look like a 5 TV and I've only seen the 1080Ps in person.
agkss likes this.
SledgeHammer is offline  
post #1356 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 07:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SledgeHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,291
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1135 Post(s)
Liked: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
The 65" 4K LG OLED is $8,999 compared to the 55" 1080p OLED for $14,000 in 2013 that is now $3,499 !


And?


I bought a Panasonic Pro 50" 1080P plasma in 2006 for $5K and its now going for about a $100 on eBay. I doubt I could give it away even though its still better then pretty much any 1080P LCD on the market.
SledgeHammer is offline  
post #1357 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 07:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sillysally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,146
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Pretty sure that's $25,000.
I understand what you think and others, but the fact is LG shows no MSRP for the 77EG9700.

You can read what you want into this, but I go by what LG shows. After all LG is making these displays and setting the MSRP's, not the retailers.

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
LG77C8, Klein K10-A, Jeti 1211, CMS Lightspace, Calman home plus licence for K10-A, Murideo 6G.
sillysally is offline  
post #1358 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 07:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SledgeHammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,291
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1135 Post(s)
Liked: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I understand what you think and others, but the fact is LG shows no MSRP for the 77EG9700.

You can read what you want into this, but I go by what LG shows. After all LG is making these displays and setting the MSRP's, not the retailers.

ss
The prices for all the models were leaked last week or so. The 77" MSRP is in fact $25K. The dealer that leaked them got in trouble with LG for it.
SledgeHammer is offline  
post #1359 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 07:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sillysally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,146
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
The prices for all the models were leaked last week or so. The 77" MSRP is in fact $25K. The dealer that leaked them got in trouble with LG for it.
Its only a fact if LG posts the MSRP, the rest is pure speculation.

Just like the posted LG MSRP for the 2014 (webOS) 65EC9700 is $11999.99.
However the new 2015 (webOS2) 65EG9600 is $8999.99

What a dealer posts means nothing, as you saw the dealer took down the price. The why is just speculation, unless you can link us to a official statement form LG as to why the dealers prices where taken down.

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
LG77C8, Klein K10-A, Jeti 1211, CMS Lightspace, Calman home plus licence for K10-A, Murideo 6G.
sillysally is offline  
post #1360 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 08:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Pastuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by x3sphere View Post
I think the best to hope for is $3500 by year's end on the 55" EF9500. There were a lot of holdouts on the EC9300 that didn't want to drop $3.5K on a 1080p set, that won't be the case with this new model.

That being said, the prices for 4K LCD have also gone down. You can get a 65" for a lot less now. And I'm sure Samsung will be equally aggressive towards any price cuts LG makes. It's going to be tough for LG to see sales growth this year with OLED IMO. Not to be overly negative, but I just hope they continue to stick with it with that ends up being the case...
2015 Vizio M 4k with 32 zone FALD will be starting at $600.
Pastuch is offline  
post #1361 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 08:47 PM
wse
AVS Forum Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,503
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2207 Post(s)
Liked: 814
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
The 65" 4K LG OLED is $8,999 compared to the 55" 1080p OLED for $14,000 in 2013 that is now $3,499 !

So with that in 2017 65" will be $2000 then I am game in the mean time I will enjoy My Panasonic ZT65 $2,300 is what I paid for it
wse is offline  
post #1362 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 10:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Trekari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Wow...8k for the flat 65.

I returned a 65" 8550 from Samsung recently because of false advertising issues. I paid $2400 for it.

I could stretch a budget to $3500, maybe $4,000 for a 65" OLED. That's the price premium I'd be willing to pay for LED>OLED upgrade. Once you approach nearly double the price for the same size, you completely lose my interest.

Sorry LG. I'd LOVE to support your production of OLED and make it successful in the marketplace, but you're out of your mind with these prices if you ever expect legitimate market share, especially with your brand name being what it is.
Trekari is offline  
post #1363 of 1874 Old 02-26-2015, 10:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dougri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,034
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
2015 Vizio M 4k with 32 zone FALD will be starting at $600.
No offense, but UHD is the only comparable spec. FALD has its only issues... especially with so few zones. My daily viewer is the 240 zone 55LHX until OLED comes down in price a bit... there really is no comparison. AFAIC, I'd take 1080p OLED over anything 4K LCD/LED.
dougri is offline  
post #1364 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 05:53 AM
Member
 
sundiego's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 131
65EG9600 MSRP - $8999.99

This is so depressing! I've been waiting ever since CES to buy this TV but there's no way I'm pay 9 grand for a TV. It'll be at least 6 months before it drops anything significantly and I can't wait that long. Looks like Samsung SUHD UN65JS9500 here I come at $5,999! May not be quite an OLED but the closest your going to get and maybe the best TV out there right now.
sundiego is offline  
post #1365 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:07 AM
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maybe ⅓ of the way from here to there.
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2589 Post(s)
Liked: 2312
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
My limit now for the 55inch is $3500 and even that is really stretching it, no way on earth I'm dropping 5k for a 55 inch.
Me neither. Thing is, I cringe when people look at this number and think that LG is somehow being naive or even flat out stupid. I would bet there isn't a single person in the executive team at LG/LGD who doesn't know that this is too high to sustain volume movement.
slacker711 and Turrican4D like this.
tgm1024 is offline  
post #1366 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Thing that people are forgetting is that a top of the line 2015 Quantum Dot / HDR / FALD LCD is in the $4K ballpark MSRP too. So there isn't really much of an "OLED tax" and OLED will mop the floors with that $4K LCD.


That's kind of how I'm looking at it at least .


I dunno... I kind of consider $4k and $5k about the same in the scheme of a one time purchase, so I'd rather pay a little bit extra and get the 9/10 vs. save a bit of $$$ and get a 5 - 6.


Sad truth is, and I think Ken will agree is that OLED makes a 10 LCD look like a 5 TV and I've only seen the 1080Ps in person.
It certainly outclasses any LCD (or any TV) I've ever seen, my Sharp Elite included, but I'm not sure I'd peg the disparity quite as you did when comparing it to the best LCDs.

But IMO, certainly worth the additional 'tax' as you've stated it.
MattyPeq likes this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1367 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:40 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
2015 Vizio M 4k with 32 zone FALD will be starting at $600.
Well there you go, OLED is dead, stick a fork in it.
dsinger and mo949 like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1368 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:54 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Me neither. Thing is, I cringe when people look at this number and think that LG is somehow being naive or even flat out stupid. I would bet there isn't a single person in the executive team at LG/LGD who doesn't know that this is too high to sustain volume movement.
Tgm, is it true that JWhip is on that executive team?
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1369 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 07:06 AM
Member
 
albsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well there you go, OLED is dead, stick a fork in it.
There's no worse death than the one coming from Vizio ...
albsky is offline  
post #1370 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 07:17 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
65EG9600 MSRP - $8999.99

This is so depressing! I've been waiting ever since CES to buy this TV but there's no way I'm pay 9 grand for a TV. It'll be at least 6 months before it drops anything significantly and I can't wait that long. Looks like Samsung SUHD UN65JS9500 here I come at $5,999! May not be quite an OLED but the closest your going to get and maybe the best TV out there right now.
Would you say it is/might be better than the LG 55EC9300?

(Not picking the UHD OLEDs just because some of us, like me, never saw those in person.)
MattyPeq is offline  
post #1371 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 07:22 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It certainly outclasses any LCD (or any TV) I've ever seen, my Sharp Elite included, but I'm not sure I'd peg the disparity quite as you did when comparing it to the best LCDs.

But IMO, certainly worth the additional 'tax' as you've stated it.
Ken, I need to ask you one thing.

If I remember correctly, you said that, if LCD is a 5 and PDP is a 7, UHD OLED is a 9.

I know it is hard to put it in a number, but since we already have three... If I may ask, how would you rate the 1080p OLED? (55EC9300, in particular)
Zoomomax likes this.
MattyPeq is offline  
post #1372 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Can I revise those numbers Matty?

After spending some quality time with the 77" OLED, I'd have to give UHD OLED a 10.

Based on that, I would give 1080p OLED an 8.5-9.

But as you acknowledge, it's really tough to assign numbers to such a complicated mix of performance attributes.
Zoomomax and MattyPeq like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1373 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:11 AM
 
sytech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,567
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2104 Post(s)
Liked: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Thing that people are forgetting is that a top of the line 2015 Quantum Dot / HDR / FALD LCD is in the $4K ballpark MSRP too. So there isn't really much of an "OLED tax" and OLED will mop the floors with that $4K LCD.


That's kind of how I'm looking at it at least .


I dunno... I kind of consider $4k and $5k about the same in the scheme of a one time purchase, so I'd rather pay a little bit extra and get the 9/10 vs. save a bit of $$$ and get a 5 - 6.


Sad truth is, and I think Ken will agree is that OLED makes a 10 LCD look like a 5 TV and I've only seen the 1080Ps in person.
There is currently a $2-3K price gap between a WHF™ (WCG/HDR/FALD) display and an OLED of comparable size. And that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF prices will fall quickly once volume ramps up. Sure the OLED will be better in black levels and viewing angles, but $2-3K better. Probably not for most consumers.
sytech is offline  
post #1374 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mo949's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 1193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well there you go, OLED is dead, stick a fork in it.
That was fast; its not even Black Friday yet
mo949 is offline  
post #1375 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Mrke1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsky View Post
There's no worse death than the one coming from Vizio ...
Why the Vizio hate? They're putting FALD 4K TVs within reach of people who could not afford them otherwise. You could say they're driving down prices for all, but every product has a budget line. Vizio doesn't claim to have the best image quality available.

The real scumbags IMO are compaines like Samsung and their ridiculous markups on things like adding a slight curve to a TV.
fafrd and MattyPeq like this.
Mrke1 is offline  
post #1376 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
That was fast; its not even Black Friday yet
See what happens mo? I've been told so many times that OLED is as good as dead, I'm now repeating it.

I need to get my stomach pumped to remove all the Kool-Aid.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1377 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:41 AM
Senior Member
 
donaldm823's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 79
New LG65EG9600 Specs

The specs of this new LG 65EG9600 OLED are on the LG web site. Noticed that HDMI ports =3 vice the standard 4 and also audio watts is 20w vice the 40w of its predecessor (65EC9700)

Anyone understand the reasons/justifications of the change in HDMI since most TVs have 4, and I use all 4 in my present TV.

Also, anyone know why the audio power was cut in half. I have concerns for sound quality and was wondering if LG has done something else to compensate

Don
SW Florida area
LG 65EF9500 OLED
LG LAS751M sound bar
donaldm823 is offline  
post #1378 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 09:44 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4771
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
There is currently a $2-3K price gap between a WHF™ (WCG/HDR/FALD) display and an OLED of comparable size. And that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF prices will fall quickly once volume ramps up. Sure the OLED will be better in black levels and viewing angles, but $2-3K better. Probably not for most consumers.
Brilliant.

WHF - you heard it here first and Sytech was the originator

p.s. Thank god it wasn't 'Tremendous Dynamic Range'
fafrd is online now  
post #1379 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 10:16 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,064
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7281 Post(s)
Liked: 8052
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldm823 View Post
The specs of this new LG 65EG9600 OLED are on the LG web site. Noticed that HDMI ports =3 vice the standard 4 and also audio watts is 20w vice the 40w of its predecessor (65EC9700)

Anyone understand the reasons/justifications of the change in HDMI since most TVs have 4, and I use all 4 in my present TV.

Also, anyone know why the audio power was cut in half. I have concerns for sound quality and was wondering if LG has done something else to compensate
Don, if you have any concern for sound quality, you should never be using the onboard audio for any TV...perhaps with the exception of the Sony XBRs with the large, side-mounted speakers.

If you use an audio receiver, as many people would with a TV of this quality, your concerns about the # of inputs would vanish. You'd be using the receiver as your switcher.

With that said, the changes made may reflect some cost-cutting to achieve the lower price of the newer displays.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #1380 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 10:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
MrEmoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE Mass, USA, Earth
Posts: 550
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Liked: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Don, if you have any concern for sound quality, you should never be using the onboard audio for any TV...perhaps with the exception of the Sony XBRs with the large, side-mounted speakers.

If you use an audio receiver, as many people would with a TV of this quality, your concerns about the # of inputs would vanish. You'd be using the receiver as your switcher.

With that said, the changes made may reflect some cost-cutting to achieve the lower price of the newer displays.
Not to pile on, but I was having similar thoughts. I've been a big fan of running the sound out through a stereo system since long before HDTV was out. I think it really makes all program material better, and if one goes to one of the various surround set-ups, contributes to a wonderfully immersive viewing experience.

But, you probably know that already.
Tomcup likes this.

Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma HDTV TV
Panasonic DMP-BDT360 3D Blu-ray Disc Player
Panasonic DMP-BDT215 3D Blu-ray Disc Player
Yamaha RX-V757 Receiver, Cambridge Soundworks Towers, JBL center, and assorted other speakers for 7.1
MrEmoto is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Tags
oled

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off