Pricing for new LG OLEDs revealed - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 12:34 PM
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Amazon now says 3-6 weeks availability for the EC9700 (they've never stocked it themselves before, only third party sellers): http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics...eywords=ec9300

Weird that timeframe lines up with the expected launch of the EG9600, late March/early April. I really don't know why anyone would get the EC9700 with the EG9600 coming out then? Unless the price on it is going to be lower, but still says $10K for now.
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post #1382 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Can I revise those numbers Matty?

After spending some quality time with the 77" OLED, I'd have to give UHD OLED a 10.

Based on that, I would give 1080p OLED an 8.5-9.

But as you acknowledge, it's really tough to assign numbers to such a complicated mix of performance attributes.
Very interesting.

I appreciate the reply and also the more pondered mark on the UHD OLED.

Thank you.
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post #1383 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 01:52 PM
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Tgm, is it true that JWhip is on that executive team?
If I was, there would be a 70 incher and the curve wouldn't exist.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #1384 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 02:23 PM
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Nah, 70 is too close in size to the 65. From a marketing standpoint it doesn't seem to make much sense IMO.
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post #1385 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 02:38 PM
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And I would be selling stock fast...
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post #1386 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Don, if you have any concern for sound quality, you should never be using the onboard audio for any TV...perhaps with the exception of the Sony XBRs with the large, side-mounted speakers.

If you use an audio receiver, as many people would with a TV of this quality, your concerns about the # of inputs would vanish. You'd be using the receiver as your switcher.

With that said, the changes made may reflect some cost-cutting to achieve the lower price of the newer displays.
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Originally Posted by MrEmoto View Post
Not to pile on, but I was having similar thoughts. I've been a big fan of running the sound out through a stereo system since long before HDTV was out. I think it really makes all program material better, and if one goes to one of the various surround set-ups, contributes to a wonderfully immersive viewing experience.

But, you probably know that already.

Would a soundbar be a good alternative?
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post #1387 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 03:37 PM
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the 65" 9500 OLED just showed up at Video Only in Mountian View, CA. They called me and left a message saying they are putting it up on the wall and calibrating it today.

Might go have a look at it. Wish they had the 9700 in.
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post #1388 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 03:42 PM
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The 9500? Definitely let us know what price you see that for, supposedly its cheaper than the 9700 even, as odd as that sounds.
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post #1389 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
the 65" 9500 OLED just showed up at Video Only in Mountian View, CA. They called me and left a message saying they are putting it up on the wall and calibrating it today.

Might go have a look at it. Wish they had the 9700 in.
Are you sure it's not the EG9600 or EC9700? I'd be super surprised if they had the flat one, if they do I think I speak for this board by saying please go and take pictures, especially of the ports, plus note the price!
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post #1390 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
the 65" 9500 OLED just showed up at Video Only in Mountian View, CA. They called me and left a message saying they are putting it up on the wall and calibrating it today.

Might go have a look at it. Wish they had the 9700 in.
Hmm since the 9600 comes with a stand, this 9500 might be the no sound frame version of the flat 55EA8800.
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post #1391 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
Would a soundbar be a good alternative?
Maybe? I haven't heard them. If you can go to a shop and demo the tv speakers then demo the soundbar, that will tell you a lot.

The high level thing I was trying to get across is that we go for the best picture we can manage, but we sometimes leave the sound as an afterthought, even though having good sound enhances the experience dramatically. I use a stereo receiver/amplifier (my regular stereo that I listen to CDs of FM radio with) that outputs to separate speakers for the 7.1 channel set-up I have. The main left and right speakers are large enough to provide very full fidelity and rich sound. The center, sides, and rear speakers are not quite as high end, but are adequate to fill in the locations provided in a surround sound mix. Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable member here can point to an audio thread that would be of assistance in what components are thought good these days; my stuff is all several years old.

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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
If I was, there would be a 70 incher and the curve wouldn't exist.
I'm a big fan of flat TV's of course. But it occurs to me: You could make it flat, but just vertically "pinch it" in the middle into a slight bow tie, and then all the people watching it would post how they didn't notice it after a while....

:-P
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post #1393 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Morning5 View Post
Hmm since the 9600 comes with a stand, this 9500 might be the no sound frame version of the flat 55EA8800.
started this thread on it here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...on-thread.html

I think the 9800 (premium 9500) is the one you are thinking of.
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post #1394 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
started this thread on it here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...on-thread.html

I think the 9800 (premium 9500) is the one you are thinking of.
I heard LG was going to release a no frame flat OLED tv. Perhaps LG dropped the 9500 for the 9600.
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post #1395 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
Would a soundbar be a good alternative?
Nope.


They add a lot to the price of the TV (assuming you're talking about the built in one), you can't upgrade individual pieces and the sound quality isn't as good as real speakers.


You're talking about buying a $5000 or $8000 TV. Time to invest in a real AVR and 5.1 speakers.
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post #1396 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 05:55 PM
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Would a soundbar be a good alternative?
Better than most on board audio, yes, but not nearly as good as a true surround setup.
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post #1397 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Nope.


They add a lot to the price of the TV (assuming you're talking about the built in one), you can't upgrade individual pieces and the sound quality isn't as good as real speakers.


You're talking about buying a $5000 or $8000 TV. Time to invest in a real AVR and 5.1 speakers.
Yeah... I agree...

The problem is when all of your budget is gone after you got the tv.

Yeah, I'm talking about what will probably happen to me. Haha.
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post #1398 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
the 65" 9500 OLED just showed up at Video Only in Mountian View, CA. They called me and left a message saying they are putting it up on the wall and calibrating it today.

Might go have a look at it. Wish they had the 9700 in.
9500? That's the flat one. If you got the number right, I would like to know why they got the flat one before the curved and, more importantly, how did they get it so soon.
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post #1399 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:10 PM
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Of course, this pricing is no death knell. It does suggest, however, a much, much lower volume target for 2015 than we'd be led to believe/hoping for.

I don't for a second buy into the theory that 200K sold TVs + 400K panels for wholesale is at all LGD's target. Nor, for what it's worth, do I believe that wholesale panels would logically exceed TVs sold anytime soon.

If you assume an OEM would perhaps require 3 months worth of panels and would reasonably be expected to sell at most 1/4 the volume of LG itself in the near term -- a figure I'm going to replace with 1/2 to show the absurdity of those calculations -- an OEM could need. Perhaps 1/2 of LG's 4th-quarter TV sales, which I'll estimate at 80,000 based on these prices and the fact that sales are basically commencing with 9-10 months left in the year, depending on model. You'd need then 40K for an OEM in Q4. Multiply that by 3 OEMs, double the production for two quarters worth and you get an OEM need of 240K panels (it's lower, because Q3 LG sales would be and the OEM would be just starting out) at the absolute high end. And those forecasts / production numbers are ridiculous.

Why? Because if LG were ramped up, they would have these panels to sell, of course. If they were ramped out, however, they wouldn't be pricing for a sliver of the TV market so small that they are literally competing for 50% share of the top 2% of the market -- a row which is going to be awfully tough to hoe, I might add.

In short, production is nowhere near forecasts -- yet. This is typical of the LG OLED story and doesn't mean it's a death knell. It means it's still taking far longer than anticipated to ramp things up. If it weren't, you'd see significantly more aggressive pricing. LG would need >50% share of the top 5% of the market to sell 600K units. Again, that's a completely unbelievable market share achievement at price parity with competing products. So you'd actually see LG priced along with the top 8% or so of the market and basically selling against clearly inferior goods.

Once it had established an ability to do that, it would not be necessary to cut prices as quickly to continue taking share. In the other scenario, it's unrealistic to believe LG will ever obtain 70, 80, 90% share of the top 2-3% of the market -- no matter how good the product. And OLED would be locked in a niche.

I don't see that happening. And therefore I see the current pricing as an admission of an inability to price "aggressively" where clearly inferior products are also targeted.
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post #1400 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post


The 9500? Definitely let us know what price you see that for, supposedly its cheaper than the 9700 even, as odd as that sounds.
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Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
Are you sure it's not the EG9600 or EC9700? I'd be super surprised if they had the flat one, if they do I think I speak for this board by saying please go and take pictures, especially of the ports, plus note the price!
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Originally Posted by Morning5 View Post
Hmm since the 9600 comes with a stand, this 9500 might be the no sound frame version of the flat 55EA8800.
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9500? That's the flat one. If you got the number right, I would like to know why they got the flat one before the curved and, more importantly, how did they get it so soon.
If I have more than one day off this week I'll cruise by the place and see if they are telling the truth.

I don't know why they would call and say they had it when they didn't. Either that or they are confused on the type of model they got which would scare me if they didn't even know the type of TV they had

I am also on their call list for the Samsung js9500 and Sony 940. No calls for those yet. Last year this store started selling the Samsung 9000 2 weeks before it was out everywhere else. It wasn't on the floor, but we're selling the stock in the back since they "were not allowed" to put it out on the floor so early. Their words, I'll find out if true or not soon.
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post #1401 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 07:15 PM
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Hmmm that makes me think it might be the Samsunf js9500 and someone just misspoke, but who knows!
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post #1402 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
Would a soundbar be a good alternative?
Please don't get a soundbar.

If you are the type of person to even remotely consider these new 4K OLEDs, you should spend some time learning about audio because I guarantee you will appreciate it. You don't have to spend a lot of money and the quality of the experience over a soundbar is still huge. Also, if you take the time and effort to learn about properly position speakers and setting up the listening area you can get additional value out of a cheap system. I was surprised how close to a theater experience I could get after everything was set up correctly, and that definitely got me more interested in audio. It's easy to fixate on video but once you experience good audio at home its hard to go back.
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post #1403 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MattyPeq View Post
Yeah... I agree...

The problem is when all of your budget is gone after you got the tv.

Yeah, I'm talking about what will probably happen to me. Haha.
Yup.


Honestly, there is no need to go overboard on your surround setup.


AVR in the $500 to $1000 street is going to do the job for 99.9999% of people and same thing goes for another $1000 to $2000 on speakers.


You'll always find people who say you need $10,000 speakers, but lets get real, you don't. But don't get book shelves either.


2 front floor standings will run about $200 to $300 each... center will run another $200 and rears will run you another $200 to $300 each as well. Sub will run probably $400. These are MSRP / full retail prices. If you shop online, you can get the next class or two higher for these MSRPs.


Speakers at that level are going to fill 99.9999% of peoples needs.


Definitely good enough for a starter setup.
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post #1404 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 09:37 PM
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Hmmm that makes me think it might be the Samsunf js9500 and someone just misspoke, but who knows!
There's also a UF9500 Quanum Dot TV by LG that they could have mistakenly called about. We'll see.
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post #1405 of 1874 Old 02-27-2015, 11:04 PM
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Well I would expect street EG shall be lower than street EC version. By $1000 if not more. Now April or December I am enjoying my kuro


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post #1406 of 1874 Old 02-28-2015, 12:06 AM
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Now if LG does decide to fold up shop on OLED in 2016 and are accelerating initiatives to find manufacturing partners and customers for OEM WOLED panels to salvage something from their billion$ investment, there is an interesting prospect for a white knight on the horizon if ever there was one...

Once OLED has addressed all technical and manufacturing questions and it's success or failure rests on questions relating to marketing and selling of a premium product at a premium price, who is better positioned than Apple to demonstrate how to close that remaining gap...
If Apple can purchase 3 billion dollars to a rapper for some "Dr. Dre" headphones, (he is not a real doctor btw) they certainly could expand investments into some high tech forward thinking large screen consumer panel displays.

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
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post #1407 of 1874 Old 02-28-2015, 12:40 AM
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Brilliant.

WHF - you heard it here first and Sytech was the originator

p.s. Thank god it wasn't 'Tremendous Dynamic Range'
WHF is cool, in considerations for OLED & other tech acronyms, but for gamers this abbreviation works even better by adding high frame rate for the H at the end> WHFHTM


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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Amazon now says 3-6 weeks availability for the EC9700 (they've never stocked it themselves before, only third party sellers): http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics...eywords=ec9300

Weird that timeframe lines up with the expected launch of the EG9600, late March/early April. I really don't know why anyone would get the EC9700 with the EG9600 coming out then? Unless the price on it is going to be lower, but still says $10K for now.
Why don't you buy it here(in the same page)?
http://www.wrsmartphonewarehouse.com...9700-499-p.asp
It will save you some cash :-)
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post #1409 of 1874 Old 02-28-2015, 02:05 AM
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Why the Vizio hate? They're putting FALD 4K TVs within reach of people who could not afford them otherwise. You could say they're driving down prices for all, but every product has a budget line. Vizio doesn't claim to have the best image quality available.

The real scumbags IMO are compaines like Samsung and their ridiculous markups on things like adding a slight curve to a TV.
No hate towards Vizio.
Just trying to say that it is not relevant mentioning a totally different technology and a totally different market approach in a thread frequented by people wanted to buy the best TV out there.
It's just like mentioning Lenovo Vibe X in an iPhone 6 thread ...
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post #1410 of 1874 Old 02-28-2015, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Of course, this pricing is no death knell. It does suggest, however, a much, much lower volume target for 2015 than we'd be led to believe/hoping for.

I don't for a second buy into the theory that 200K sold TVs + 400K panels for wholesale is at all LGD's target. Nor, for what it's worth, do I believe that wholesale panels would logically exceed TVs sold anytime soon.

If you assume an OEM would perhaps require 3 months worth of panels and would reasonably be expected to sell at most 1/4 the volume of LG itself in the near term -- a figure I'm going to replace with 1/2 to show the absurdity of those calculations -- an OEM could need. Perhaps 1/2 of LG's 4th-quarter TV sales, which I'll estimate at 80,000 based on these prices and the fact that sales are basically commencing with 9-10 months left in the year, depending on model. You'd need then 40K for an OEM in Q4. Multiply that by 3 OEMs, double the production for two quarters worth and you get an OEM need of 240K panels (it's lower, because Q3 LG sales would be and the OEM would be just starting out) at the absolute high end. And those forecasts / production numbers are ridiculous.

Why? Because if LG were ramped up, they would have these panels to sell, of course. If they were ramped out, however, they wouldn't be pricing for a sliver of the TV market so small that they are literally competing for 50% share of the top 2% of the market -- a row which is going to be awfully tough to hoe, I might add.

In short, production is nowhere near forecasts -- yet. This is typical of the LG OLED story and doesn't mean it's a death knell. It means it's still taking far longer than anticipated to ramp things up. If it weren't, you'd see significantly more aggressive pricing. LG would need >50% share of the top 5% of the market to sell 600K units. Again, that's a completely unbelievable market share achievement at price parity with competing products. So you'd actually see LG priced along with the top 8% or so of the market and basically selling against clearly inferior goods.

Once it had established an ability to do that, it would not be necessary to cut prices as quickly to continue taking share. In the other scenario, it's unrealistic to believe LG will ever obtain 70, 80, 90% share of the top 2-3% of the market -- no matter how good the product. And OLED would be locked in a niche.

I don't see that happening. And therefore I see the current pricing as an admission of an inability to price "aggressively" where clearly inferior products are also targeted.
Well said.

High prices = no manufacturing volume. It's a pretty simple equation (which many struggle to accept).

Even with the reduced Phase I ramp to only 6000 panels per month, that means there will eventually be a tsunami of over 25,000 OLEDs per month hitting the marketplace, and as soon as that has started to happen, we will know because of unexpected and unbelievable price cuts on the 2015 OLEDs...

Total worldwide sales of OLED TVs since first introduction in fall 2013 is probably well under 25,000 as of today.
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