Pricing for new LG OLEDs revealed - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:17 AM
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Once you factor in the 600,000 supply number for 2015 (even if it's less due to sales to other manufacturers) it does seem like either lg is fibbing about the number or VE is fibbing. If they were both right then demand is far above what we have been guessing at for a 10k tv

One thing is for sure to me, if it isn't availabke at brand name stores it really isn't 'out' yet and you are paying 'sneak preview' prices.
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post #1472 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 02:26 AM
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65EF9500 and 55EF9500 removed from online stores above. Not a good sign.
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post #1473 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by esoxlee View Post
65EF9500 and 55EF9500 removed from online stores above. Not a good sign.
The common understanding here is that those TVs will be available starting from August.
What's the purpose of having them in the website?
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post #1474 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
my take is that this is some one in the business of selling TVs and who has a vested interest in promoting the idea that current prices will remain stable for 'two to three years'...

We all know the problems created by deflation...
Certainly not Robert @VE, I'll vouch for his integrity and I've known him for years. You'd have a hard time finding more of a straight-shooter in this business than Robert.

Yes, he's in the business of 'selling TVs', but he's not in the business of stretching the truth.

Any comments he's made, I'm sure are predicated on the best information given him by LG that he felt were credible.

Of course none of us can vouch for the accuracy of LG's information.
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post #1475 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Certainly not Robert @VE, I'll vouch for his integrity and I've known him for years. You'd have a hard time finding more of a straight-shooter in this business than Robert.

Yes, he's in the business of 'selling TVs', but he's not in the business of stretching the truth.

Any comments he's made, I'm sure are predicated on the best information given him by LG that he felt were credible.

Of course none of us can vouch for the accuracy of LG's information.
Ken: I also have a lot of respect for Robert but based upon his and apparently LG comments, I think they are both ignoring the fact that prices for high end LCDs from the likes of Samsung and Sony are going to drive OLED prices when and if LG gets to the 600,000 production rate for this year and (hopefully) 1,500,000 for 2016. IMO LG has to get the price down to no more than a 10% premium over comparable LCDs to move a volume of 600,000.
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post #1476 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 07:49 AM
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Wow if the 55EF9500 isn't out till August then it won't have much time at all to drop prices before Xmas. Sorry but this entire thing is a complete Cluster F from LG from the impressions we got at CES.

Competitive Pricing? Nope
Clear indication of port specs? Nope
Release date soon enough for prices to drop later in the year? Nope

After years and years and years of hearing about OLED and seeing the benefits on smaller devices I thought the technology was ready for primetime for normal consumers but seems that is my fault for thinking that.

Last edited by swanlee; 03-04-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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post #1477 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Wow if the 55EF9500 isn't out till August then it won't have much time at all to drop prices before Xmas. Sorry but this entire thing is a complete Cluster F from LG from the impressions we got at CES.

Competitive Pricing? Nope
Clear indication of port specs? Nope
Release date soon enough for prices to drop later in the year? Nope
Maybe they will start immediately with a low price, so no time needed to lower it.
Why everyone is trying to predict the future?
IMO, it is more constructive to discuss on what's in the market currently.
I won't purchase a 65" 4K OLED TV at 10K, and yet, every single piece that is produced is in customers' homes.
I won't purchase an old 1080p OLED, and yet, there are only a few left in the stores.

I am waiting to see how price and availability will evolve for EG9600, and then decide.

But, from here, trying to give LG advices on how to reach their 600K goal for this year?
It's not my job!
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post #1478 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 08:05 AM
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post #1479 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 08:13 AM
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http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lguk-...1503044022.htm

This states that the UK at least may not see the flat models until 4th quarter...
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post #1480 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by albsky View Post
Maybe they will start immediately with a low price, so no time needed to lower it.
Why everyone is trying to predict the future?
IMO, it is more constructive to discuss on what's in the market currently.
I won't purchase a 65" 4K OLED TV at 10K, and yet, every single piece that is produced is in customers' homes.
I won't purchase an old 1080p OLED, and yet, there are only a few left in the stores.

I am waiting to see how price and availability will evolve for EG9600, and then decide.

But, from here, trying to give LG advices on how to reach their 600K goal for this year?
It's not my job!
Well we pretty much know the Flat 55 inch is going to be priced at $5K so I do not consider that in anyway shape or form a competitive price for a 55 inch 4K HDTV.

That is at least $2500 higher than other 55 inch 4k HDTV's, and the gap is even worse when you consider lower end models that can be had for $1500 and still produce a decent picture.
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post #1481 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wicklow View Post
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lguk-...1503044022.htm

This states that the UK at least may not see the flat models until 4th quarter...
According to this article also, the EC9700 is still in production and LG plans on selling it alongside the EG9600.

Quote:
What really surprised us was that the EC930V isn’t the only 2014 carry-over model. The LG 65EC970V, which was launched in June last year but never came into stock for purchase (at least within the UK), will apparently start arriving in British stores at the end of March, commanding its original retail price of £6,500. The EC970V even received centrepiece location at LG’s event yesterday, and first-page billing in the company’s 2015 product range preview brochure.

To make things more confusing, the 2015 4K OLED models, namely the 65-inch LG 65EG960V and the 55-inch 55EG960V, are supposed to get a UK launch between March and April too, at estimated prices of £6,500 and £3,800 respectively. When asked why potential customers would want to buy a 2014 model when a newer version with upgraded WebOS and processor is available for the same money, Taylor explained that the 65EC970V holds the upper hand in certain design elements such as the 4-channel Harman Kardon speaker system, and that the company is keen to provide more choices for consumers.
I don't get it, does LG really think anyone would buy the older model (without webOS 2.0) for a better speaker system on a $10K TV?
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post #1482 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Certainly not Robert @VE, I'll vouch for his integrity and I've known him for years. You'd have a hard time finding more of a straight-shooter in this business than Robert.

Yes, he's in the business of 'selling TVs', but he's not in the business of stretching the truth.

Any comments he's made, I'm sure are predicated on the best information given him by LG that he felt were credible.

Of course none of us can vouch for the accuracy of LG's information.
Ken, I'm sure Robert is a great guy and certainly did not mean to imply that he is the source of misinformation.

But the point is, we all know that 'stable prices for 2-3 years has absolutely 0% chance of materializing'. There is going to be another 'sudden' 'unexpected' price drop before the year is out or LG will end the science experiment well before the end of 2016.

The expectation of lower prices stifles short-term demand - that is human nature (and the 'deflation' problem I was referring to).

So LG has every motivation to fuel the perception that 'these OLED prices are as good as there gonna' get, and if your interested in one of these OLEDs, you might as well pick one up now because they ain't gonna' be any cheaper come Black Friday'.

And Robert has every incentive to pass on that LG-sourced information without critical analysis.

I suspect if you were to ask Robert to bet $1000 that 65" LG OLEDs will still have a street price of over $8000 by Black Friday that he would politely decline. Deep-down, he know doubt has the experience and judgement to know to take everything LG is telling him with a big grain of salt, but he really has no incentive to do so (and in fact a modest disincentive depending how many customers like you he has in his Rolodex).
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post #1483 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 12:57 PM
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AVforums are saying that LG won't release any of the proposed new 2015 OLED models in the UK until after IFA (Berlin) in September. They hope to get them in retail outlets in time for Christmas.

Whether this will be a worldwide delay or just for the UK/Europe market remains to be seen.
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post #1484 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
AVforums are saying that LG won't release any of the proposed new 2015 OLED models in the UK until after IFA (Berlin) in September. They hope to get them in retail outlets in time for Christmas.

Whether this will be a worldwide delay or just for the UK/Europe market remains to be seen.
Deja-vu...
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post #1485 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by albsky View Post
Maybe they will start immediately with a low price, so no time needed to lower it.
Why everyone is trying to predict the future?
IMO, it is more constructive to discuss on what's in the market currently.
I won't purchase a 65" 4K OLED TV at 10K, and yet, every single piece that is produced is in customers' homes.
I won't purchase an old 1080p OLED, and yet, there are only a few left in the stores.

I am waiting to see how price and availability will evolve for EG9600, and then decide.

But, from here, trying to give LG advices on how to reach their 600K goal for this year?
It's not my job!
When you find the answer to that question, let me know.

We've got hundreds & hundreds of posts 'predicting the future' and nobody knows. Nobody. Some pretend to know, but the reality is nobody knows.
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post #1486 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:18 PM
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Not good, sounds like the EC9700 launch all over again. It makes sense that prices are going to remain high if they are having issues with production. Hopefully nothing major is wrong, LG seemed pretty confident about the M2 ramp-up back in December
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post #1487 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Ken, I'm sure Robert is a great guy and certainly did not mean to imply that he is the source of misinformation.

But the point is, we all know that 'stable prices for 2-3 years has absolutely 0% chance of materializing'. There is going to be another 'sudden' 'unexpected' price drop before the year is out or LG will end the science experiment well before the end of 2016.

The expectation of lower prices stifles short-term demand - that is human nature (and the 'deflation' problem I was referring to).

So LG has every motivation to fuel the perception that 'these OLED prices are as good as there gonna' get, and if your interested in one of these OLEDs, you might as well pick one up now because they ain't gonna' be any cheaper come Black Friday'.

And Robert has every incentive to pass on that LG-sourced information without critical analysis.

I suspect if you were to ask Robert to bet $1000 that 65" LG OLEDs will still have a street price of over $8000 by Black Friday that he would politely decline. Deep-down, he know doubt has the experience and judgement to know to take everything LG is telling him with a big grain of salt, but he really has no incentive to do so (and in fact a modest disincentive depending how many customers like you he has in his Rolodex).
So if what you're saying is true, why is every unit that comes in, sold? Surely we'd have, despite the limited supply, a slow & steady building backlog of units with people anticipating significant price drops.

The bottom line is that you & I have no idea. Logic says, yes, prices will drop, but nobody knows for sure.

Virtually everyone (including you) was wrong in 'predicting' prices at this point...for whatever reason.

Honestly, I just skim over the posts that endlessly try to perform the crystal ball thing. It can't be done.
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post #1488 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
AVforums are saying that LG won't release any of the proposed new 2015 OLED models in the UK until after IFA (Berlin) in September. They hope to get them in retail outlets in time for Christmas.

Whether this will be a worldwide delay or just for the UK/Europe market remains to be seen.
It's obviously not a worldwide delay since the US has gotten a number of 65" & 77" units in.

Yes, I hear it, 'those are not the REAL 2015 OLEDs'. Whatever.
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post #1489 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:32 PM
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For some reason, people keep assuming that a brand new 1st year (still luxury) technology will follow the same downward price trajectory as a commodity technology thats been around since around 1970 . Sorry, it won't. Not yet. No competition. Ramp up is still slow. Volume is still low. And of course, people keep ignoring the fact that LG specifically said they intend to keep the prices high as they are marketing towards the top 15% or something like that. That's kind of how that whole price trajectory thing works . "Company A" releases Item A at $10,000 and "Company B" wants a piece of the pie, so they release it at $9,000. Now "Company A" wants its market share back and goes to $8500. Rinse, Repeat. Except there is no "Company B" in this case.

We'll see how the release of the EG9600 goes price wise... but I think people will be disappointed. JMO though.

Roberts also saying the 77" will be $30K. That can't make Ken too happy.
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post #1490 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Yes, I hear it, 'those are not the REAL 2015 OLEDs'. Whatever.
Well, they aren't.

But LG hasn't told us what they've changed except for the screen coating (which people didn't like on the 2014) and sped up the UI with WebOS2.0 and upped the horsepower.

Oh yeah, and don't forget, the screen "floats" now .
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post #1491 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It's obviously not a worldwide delay since the US has gotten a number of 65" & 77" units in.

Yes, I hear it, 'those are not the REAL 2015 OLEDs'. Whatever.
A very small amount though, as far as I've seen you only been able to buy a 65" or 77" from specialty retailers on a pre order basis.

Personally, I don't really consider these units 'launched' until you can just walk into a Best Buy or some other big retailer and buy one. Right now it seems like they are just made to order. LG's statements about production being ramped up in a big way for 2015 seem to contradict the current situation, I think that's why a lot of people were expecting lower prices. Something didn't go as planned IMO.
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post #1492 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
For some reason, people keep assuming that a brand new 1st year (still luxury) technology will follow the same downward price trajectory as a commodity technology thats been around since around 1970 . Sorry, it won't. Not yet. No competition. Ramp up is still slow. Volume is still low. And of course, people keep ignoring the fact that LG specifically said they intend to keep the prices high as they are marketing towards the top 15% or something like that. That's kind of how that whole price trajectory thing works . "Company A" releases Item A at $10,000 and "Company B" wants a piece of the pie, so they release it at $9,000. Now "Company A" wants its market share back and goes to $8500. Rinse, Repeat. Except there is no "Company B" in this case.

We'll see how the release of the EG9600 goes price wise... but I think people will be disappointed. JMO though.

Roberts also saying the 77" will be $30K. That can't make Ken too happy.
I'm assuming he means the 77" flex since the 77" curved is a 'mere' $25,000.
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post #1493 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 01:41 PM
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A very small amount though, as far as I've seen you only been able to buy a 65" or 77" from specialty retailers on a pre order basis.

Personally, I don't really consider these units 'launched' until you can just walk into a Best Buy or some other big retailer and buy one. Right now it seems like they are just made to order. LG's statements about production being ramped up in a big way for 2015 seem to contradict the current situation, I think that's why a lot of people were expecting lower prices. Something didn't go as planned IMO.
I guess everyone is entitled to their own definition of 'launched'.
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post #1494 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 02:29 PM
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And of course, people keep ignoring the fact that LG specifically said they intend to keep the prices high as they are marketing towards the top 15% or something like that.
'Or something like that'... being the key phrase in your post.

In the January LG earnings call, LG's head of IR Hee Yeo Kim said of the planned 600,000 shipments in 2015, "It is just 2.3% for total TV market demand. It means we have to target ultra-high-end market, so price point will be very strategic because we are targeting ultra-high-end market."

You do understand, don't you, that with LG only able to manufacture a small number of panels in 2015, at costs to themselves currently far higher than it would be to make LCDs, the territory they're first going to be have to get a foothold within is the 'ultra-high-end' market?

What is your basis for somehow believing that OLED panels are cheap to make, leading you to believe that LG are somehow deciding to jack up the prices and stick it to the consumer?

Or maybe it doesn't need any foundation, or even a basis in reality, so long as you add the disclaimer 'or something like that'.

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I'm not sure why we call them 2014 TV 2015 TV if 2014 TV us released in late 2014 or even 2015, and 2015 TV is released in late 2015/2016
LG is very bad about timing
Samsung is more reliable, TV is shown in CES in January, it hits the stores in March
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post #1496 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post
'Or something like that'... being the key phrase in your post.

In the January LG earnings call, LG's head of IR Hee Yeo Kim said of the planned 600,000 shipments in 2015, "It is just 2.3% for total TV market demand. It means we have to target ultra-high-end market, so price point will be very strategic because we are targeting ultra-high-end market."

You do understand, don't you, that with LG only able to manufacture a small number of panels in 2015, at costs to themselves currently far higher than it would be to make LCDs, the territory they're first going to be have to get a foothold within is the 'ultra-high-end' market?

What is your basis for somehow believing that OLED panels are cheap to make, leading you to believe that LG are somehow deciding to jack up the prices and stick it to the consumer?

Or maybe it doesn't need any foundation, or even a basis in reality, so long as you add the disclaimer 'or something like that'.

Desk
I think you misunderstood my post. Let me clarify.

LG is the only game in town, has zero competition, they are aiming for the ultra high-end of the market...

You mistook that to think I meant LG is leaving meat on the bone for themselves... That is not what I meant.

First off, none of us know how much meat is left on the bone for LG... they could be making these at a loss to get the technology out there for all we know, or they could be leaving a ton of meat on the bone... you know companies do that, right?

What I ACTUALLY meant was that they aren't even TRYING to reduce the cost at this time. And if they actually do manage to sell 600k units, that is hardly enough to bring the price down on scale.

Fact is, zero competition will keep the price high and low volume will as well.

A Ferrarri certainly costs a lot more then a Toyota to build... but a BMW? A BMW doesn't cost much more then a Toyota to actually build. They keep the prices high on BMW to keep it a luxury item. Not saying that is what LG is doing with OLED or that is what they intend to do. Just saying that it happens. A lot.

Hell, you can buy a $2000 BluRay player and a $50,000 record player if you want...
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Originally Posted by anis_ber View Post
I'm not sure why we call them 2014 TV 2015 TV if 2014 TV us released in late 2014 or even 2015, and 2015 TV is released in late 2015/2016
LG is very bad about timing
Samsung is more reliable, TV is shown in CES in January, it hits the stores in March
Yeah, those Samsung OLED TV sets are rolling out like clockwork, huh?

See, this is the thing... OLED isn't LCD. If it was, everyone would be doing it.

OLED represents only the fourth ever type of TV technology produced in any kind of number, after CRT, plasma and LCD. This is its birth we're witnessing, and it's actually going relatively smoothly. LG are the only company persevering with it, and bar some delays they're doing okay in my book.

And if you have complaints about OLED, just think back to how horrible those initial LCD sets looked.

So Samsung may well be able to trot out LCD sets on schedule. I don't want one. I want OLED.

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post #1498 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
AVforums are saying that LG won't release any of the proposed new 2015 OLED models in the UK until after IFA (Berlin) in September. They hope to get them in retail outlets in time for Christmas.

Whether this will be a worldwide delay or just for the UK/Europe market remains to be seen.
Is there any link to this information?
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post #1499 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sandman8989 View Post
Is there any link to this information?
Found it here: https://www.avforums.com/video/lg-uk-4k-oled-tv.11248

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At the event, LG revealed their AV line-up for the first half of the year and the news on OLED was disappointing. LG plan to retain last year's 55-inch EC930V Full HD OLED TV and at the end of April they will launch their 65-inch 65EC970V Ultra HD 4K TV that was supposed to have been released last year. It looks as though we'll have to wait until after IFA in September before we see any new UHD OLED TVs from the South Korean manufacturer. Otherwise it was Ultra HD all the way, with over 60 percent of LG's TV line-up offering 4K and none of their LED LCD TVs using curved screens.
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post #1500 of 1874 Old 03-04-2015, 03:36 PM
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Thank you, it's getting quite annoying. It looks like LG is getting used to fail launching a new product...
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