Official Owners Thread 2015 LG 55EG9600 / 65EG9600 4k - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 11:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
It's not, but I wouldn't object to having it. I'm aware it likely won't work from 4k Bluray sources. I'm sure HDR is awesome, but I'm a TV addict, not a movie addict. For me, TV replaced movies a decade ago. Great movies are now essentially a thing of the past, with more and more big actors joining the TV world. I can't find any current movies that compare to say Game of Thrones, Spartacus, Breaking Bad, Outlander, etc. You are just very limited as to what you can do in a 2 hour movie versus 100 hours or more of TV! My actual point is, will we ever see HDR TV? Maybe, but by that time I will be on to my next TV set anyways. If HDR is just going to be on a few select Hollywood action type blockbusters, I likely won't give a rip about it.

So CMS is still broken, even on the WebOS 2.0 models?
That is correct, it appears LG is not using enough precision when the CMS matrix is applied because of the sorts of artifacts it creates. External CMS will totally fix the problem up without said artifacts, and since the TV takes a 10-bit signal, you have a lot of wiggle room for correction before you run out of precision. For most colors you don't need a lot of CMS work, just touch up luminance and tint here and there (not enough to create any artifacts), but then you get to yellow. It's hopelessly broken in the standard gamut, it increases luminance instead of saturation if you go past about 75% saturation and that turns things that are supposed to be an intense yellow into a dull white. CMS can't add or even subtract saturation from it. It works fine in the wide gamut, but you need a lot of help from external CMS or a 3D LUT to make the wide gamut produce accurate colors.

So yeah, the only thing you really need CMS for on this TV is too big a problem for CMS to fix And if you even humored the thought of using the TV's built-in CMS to make the wide gamut function as Rec 709, be prepared for all sorts of otherworldly banding artifacts.
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post #1382 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 11:38 AM
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Walked into my local BB today and they finally have the 65EG9600 mounted up on the wall in the Magnolia department. Immediately I saw the exact same dark edge banding issues that is present on my set and others. The Magnolia rep mentioned noticing it as well even before I mentioned it. Good to know I'm not crazy! My repair date was pushed out to the 6th due to a delay in getting the parts.
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post #1383 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 11:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Ok, wait a second, can I have you guys clarify something here?

On the LG OLED's, which of the settings that affect the high end also end up raising the black level (to whatever degree)?

Or do none of them?

It is a different beast entirely than LCD (on LCD, if you increase the backlight, the bottom and top raise proportionately ending up with the same CR). And I'm confused as to how similar the settings may be to plasma.

Note, I'm not talking about the theoretical capabilities of the technology. I feel like I've read every Kodak patent and white paper there was on the subject already. I'm asking specifically about LG's settings, which are free to do anything.
What do you mean by affect the high end? Are you talking luminance output?

I can give you a general list of things that will screw with the black level:

1. Positive bias (low) on the 2-point white balance
2. Adding to IRE 5 on the 20-point white balance
3. Setting brightness
4. Black Level setting
5. Dynamic Contrast (it S-curvifies the calibrated gamma, so can potentially raise IRE 5)

None of those are things you would directly go to if your goal were to increase light output though.

Setting OLED light or contrast, the two things you would go to for the purpose of setting peak light output, won't raise the black level. Though you might see video level 17 a lot more clearly if you jack contrast and OLED light up to 100, making setting brightness with a PLUGE pattern a hell of a lot easier; it doesn't change the actual black level, just makes everything that was already visible either brighter or clips it. Those two things have a minor affect on RGB separation and gamma (changing the contrast setting causes this mostly), but not enough to raise the black level (unlike dynamic contrast, which I have observed do that).
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post #1384 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 12:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kaldaien View Post
What do you mean by affect the high end? Are you talking luminance output?
Yes, of course. That's why I gave the backlight (LCD setting) as an example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldaien View Post
I can give you a general list of things that will screw with the black level:

1. Positive bias (low) on the 2-point white balance
2. Adding to IRE 5 on the 20-point white balance
3. Setting brightness
4. Black Level setting
5. Dynamic Contrast (it S-curvifies the calibrated gamma, so can potentially raise IRE 5)
I did read the rest of your post, but for the list above:

1. makes sense.
2. makes sense.
3 & 4. Hold on.----That's how it usually works, but are you sure that LG didn't artificially anchor the bottom end to zero no matter what?
5. No comment/clue about this.
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post #1385 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
No it doesn't. You guys are still trying to calibrate built on your experience with other technology.

There are some very interesting things in the service menu
That's not true, at least for me.
Forget about opening the service menu or HDR speculation.
Lets try to stick with the facts, unless you can show proof about chips or locked controls or what ever.

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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
The oled light control set to anything but 100 enables dimming so on screen huds or dogs or any static images are targeted and dimmed. That could suggest that that could be reversed to allow bright areas to be targeted and raised for HDR. I've yet to measure high bright this set can go with a couple of tweaks in the service menu. Will have time over the weekend
Yes ChadB has already suggested using that method.
I have tried that and am not all that happy with the results.

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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
As for the other controls I'm sorry I don't agree with you. Getting your greyscale right there is more than enough adjustment in the cms to get an awesome image.
Yes imho you can get a nice PQ with limited use of the controls of the EG9600.
I would disagree with the wording "awesome image".
However if you would like to show us proof of that statement, that would be nice.

I get it you don't want to post charts and raw numbers, the only chart you posted in this thread is one you copied and pasted from someone that posted that chart for his 9300 on the UK forum.
So maybe you could post your settings and let a few of us try them, of course we understand that they probably will be a little off because of the variation from TV to TV.

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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
Sure external cms boxes will do a far better job but that is the the same with ANY set.
If this is true, and to a degree I agree with that statement.
How do you best "awesome image" by using a external box?

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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
I see loads of discussions and charts showing dots in squares but no discussion about picture quality. Sorry charts do not tell anything like the full story
That's a lot of bull. Charts tell us a lot about what is going on with the display, however using these charts and more importantly raw numbers is where the art comes into play. First understand that 2+2 doesn't equal 5.
The charts that Chad posted on the EG9600 I believe are honest charts. If you look at them he has improved the grayscale, RGB balance, Temp and gamma. However there is very little improvement in the CMS.

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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
There's plenty that even the best profiled meters can't measure that the eye can see. There are things that the eye can't see that meters pick up and calibration is a combination of the 2. It's a combination of science and art.

And isn't watching a film or a program what it's all about.
Yes the CIE 1931 observer is based on a average range of what folks can see. iow I may see things slightly different than the next guy based on age and a few other factors.
Same goes for a client of yours, you may see colors a little different than your client. So who is correct, your client of course, because he is looking through his eyes not yours.

As far as meters go and making a meter profile matrix, there can be a weak link in using a reference color meter and a non reference spectro meter, or in the software that is used or are you using a 5mn spectro or a 10mn spectro as you reference meter.

Watching a film is a old Cliché, video may look good on one but the next video not so good. Consistency is what you want to see.

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post #1386 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 01:27 PM
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Official Owners Thread 2015 LG 55EG9600 / 65EG9600 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post
Move on guys...stay on topic and discuss products, never each other.

Hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldm823 View Post
Mike-thanks for finally stepping in. The many argumentative comments by a handful of forum members were doing a disservice to this forum, were NOT enhancing owner experience, and in essence "hijacked" the forum. I for one hope there is more active moderator action in the future to keep this "noise" to a minimum

I agree this stuff should be in calibration threads. I'm a calibrator but this stuff is tiresome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldaien View Post
I've had plenty of discussions about the picture quality in this forum as they pertain to this issue. You're on some bizarre high horse here that I cannot for the life of me figure out. Just because yellow saturation is not an issue for you when viewing content on your brittish set, that doesn't mean this problem doesn't affect other people.

Getting your grayscale right sounds like a really good generic thing to tell someone to cover all bases, but I've got grayscale down to < 0.1 delta E. Problems with secondaries absolutely, unequivocally do not lie with grayscale. This is a problem affecting everyone I've talked to who has worked on a 55/65EG9600, we must all really suck at white balance if nobody's ever encountered one of these TVs without this problem.

I for one find it very distressing when watching movies and television where skin tones are lacking natural yellow pigment and blonde hair is white rather than yellow. But you're sitting here telling me the only reason I worked my ass off to fix yellow saturation was because it produced pretty charts. I'm sorry, but you sir are completely off your rocker.

In fact, if you scroll back several pages in this same thread you will find Chad B's calibration report, which shows clear as day the massive undersaturation issues endemic to this TV. Yes, hue is important for secondaries, and that's under control the way he calibrated it, but a delta E > 10 for saturation on anything is going to be visible to anyone watching familiar content on the TV. If you're used to watching plasmas and CRTs that display accurate yellow, this problem sticks out like a sore thumb and eats at your very soul until you fix the white parts of the picture that are actually supposed to be yellow. Is that an adequate description of the problem for you without using charts?

As for setting OLED light to 100 and contrast to 50%, that absolutely alters the gamma curve and RGB balance. I'm very surprised you of all people are trying to tell me otherwise.

And last, regarding the service menu, I'm sure there is some useful stuff in there, but it's impossible to get into. You need a special remote control.

Oh I agree there's under saturation but there are ways of dealing with it. As for the rest you are now just becoming rude.

I guess your attitude to my original valid and correct comments on your first attempt is now not so warm. Remember I offered to talk to you by Skype or something to try and help.

Sadly people are right about some people's attitudes on this forum.

I do genuinely hope you eventually find the results you are seeking considering the hours of work you seem to have put in. What's the term "this is avs forum"

I'll continue getting excellent results in about 4-5 hours using my methods with the built in controls that do enough for what is needed.

That's for everyone else considering one of these.

You don't need external boxes to get a really decent result and a good calibrator over in the states will achieve that for you such as Chad.

To finish. I've had one of these next to a Samsung JS 9000 next to each other for a week on my lounge.

Again for people looking to purchase this set Yellow can be dealt with using the built in controls without artefacts.



By the way the LG is on the right (corrected)
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post #1387 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
I guess your attitude to my original valid and correct comments on your first attempt is now not so warm. Remember I offered to talk to you by Skype or something to try and help.
I did PM you before I got the EG9600 asking you for basic settings so I could quickly setup the EG9600 that was in BB.

You never replied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post


By the way the LG is on the left
I hope the set on the left was a typo or a example of how the yellow issue (that Kaldaien raises) looks before a calibration.

I think all we want is for your advice on how you setup the EG9600. I am sure any attitudes you may detect will quickly become thank you's.

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post #1388 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I did PM you before I got the EG9600 asking you for basic settings so I could quickly setup the EG9600 that was in BB.



You never replied.







I hope the set on the left was a typo or a example of how the yellow issue (that Kaldaien raises) looks before a calibration.



I think all we want is for your advice on how you setup the EG9600. I am sure any attitudes you may detect will quickly become thank you's.



ss

Lol yes it was. Sorry just peed off. Will correct it.

Sorry missed your pm.

Your last post talks sense.

Believe me I've always said beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I said in earlier post calibration is science and art and not everything can be measured.

I'm sorry charts without the set in front of you that's being measured are meaningless. I've seen enough perfect charts and a resulting poor image in my time to know this

I agree with you re service menu, same should be said then for external processing.

Look, personally like you I do have external boxes, because like with my audio I will try things to eek the very last inch of performance. I would love just an oled monitor.

You can get an awesome image from the standalone set using its own controls. Maybe as a Brit I'm not totally familiar with the correct context to use the word awesome so with external boxes the image becomes draw droppingly insanely awesome (does that work).

This stuff is so technical this isn't the place for it, it should be in calibration threads and ideally by a telephone (Skype) conversation because it is hijacking the thread

The images you state were copied were not they were mine taken on my iPhone and sent to the client to post.

Finally this is a 65" 960 I did on Tuesday.




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post #1389 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 02:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
Hmmm




I agree this stuff should be in calibration threads. I'm a calibrator but this stuff is tiresome.




Oh I agree there's under saturation but there are ways of dealing with it. As for the rest you are now just becoming rude.

I guess your attitude to my original valid and correct comments on your first attempt is now not so warm. Remember I offered to talk to you by Skype or something to try and help.

Sadly people are right about some people's attitudes on this forum.

I do genuinely hope you eventually find the results you are seeking considering the hours of work you seem to have put in. What's the term "this is avs forum"

I'll continue getting excellent results in about 4-5 hours using my methods with the built in controls that do enough for what is needed.

That's for everyone else considering one of these.

You don't need external boxes to get a really decent result and a good calibrator over in the states will achieve that for you such as Chad.

To finish. I've had one of these next to a Samsung JS 9000 next to each other for a week on my lounge.

Again for people looking to purchase this set Yellow can be dealt with using the built in controls without artefacts.



By the way the LG is on the left
Looks like LG is on the right.
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post #1390 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post

Sorry missed your pm.
NP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
The images you state were copied were not they were mine taken on my iPhone and sent to the client to post.
Am I correct that Sat sweep was for a 9300, not a EG960?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumtious View Post
Finally this is a 65" 960 I did on Tuesday.
I see you are grappling with the neon effect in that picture.
I found along with how well your adjusts work, turning down the color control in the EG960 (9600) will help lesson that effect.
I understand that may folks want to see the colors really pop as that image shows, so you guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to pleasing the client.

On a happy note, you are correct when you said the ASIL doesn't seem to affect the triplet pattern windows. At least using a K10-A. Thanks for that tip.

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post #1391 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
NP







Am I correct that Sat sweep was for a 9300, not a EG960?







I see you are grappling with the neon effect in that picture.

I found along with how well your adjusts work, turning down the color control in the EG960 (9600) will help lesson that effect.

I understand that may folks want to see the colors really pop as that image shows, so you guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to pleasing the client.



On a happy note, you are correct when you said the ASIL doesn't seem to affect the triplet pattern windows. At least using a K10-A. Thanks for that tip.



ss

Just the camera capture.

Many ways to skin a cat. (Don't know if that's a phrase you guys use).

It never fails to amaze me how people think you have to leave certain controls at their default settings.

One solution is bloody simple. You can't add saturation but it's the software that's screwing yellow as its fine in the wide space. So reign the others in to the same as the weakest one and increase the universal colour control.

That's just one thing to try.


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post #1392 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 03:38 PM
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Just the camera capture.

Many ways to skin a cat. (Don't know if that's a phrase you guys use).

It never fails to amaze me how people think you have to leave certain controls at their default settings.

One solution is bloody simple. You can't add saturation but it's the software that's screwing yellow as its fine in the wide space. So reign the others in to the same as the weakest one and increase the universal colour control.

That's just one thing to try.
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Yes, but I have two cats and they don't like that phase.

As you know I have been suggesting the use of wide gamut, but my use is for 3DLUT's.
Your suggestion of "reign the others" and increasing the color control is worth a try. My only reservation is what happens to the lumance when doing that. You will be doing a lot of "reign the others" with Red and Green.
Anyway the only way is to try it, at-least for me. Thanks for the tip.

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post #1393 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, but I have two cats and they don't like that phase.



As you know I have been suggesting the use of wide gamut, but my use is for 3DLUT's.

Your suggestion of "reign the others" and increasing the color control is worth a try. My only reservation is what happens to the lumance when doing that. You will be doing a lot of "reign the others" with Red and Green.

Anyway the only way is to try it, at-least for me. Thanks for the tip.



ss

Apologies, nothing against cats.

I'm using wide as well in mine with my Lumagen however for the tests vs the Samsung it was an even playing field using the internal controls.

As for the other method it does work, just have to take care with it and make a judgement call weather it looks better.
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post #1394 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 03:59 PM
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Yes, but I have two cats and they don't like that phase.
Wait, you skin your cats now??
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post #1395 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 04:03 PM
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^ He's been accused of everything else by some, so why not that?
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post #1396 of 5758 Old 05-28-2015, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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It depends on the employee. You might get a great one or a newb. I doubt they have calibrated many OLEDs though.
Calibration is self taught, the odds are slim you will get anything like a calibrator listed here in AVS is capable of.
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post #1397 of 5758 Old 05-29-2015, 05:32 AM
 
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Wait, you skin your cats now??
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^ He's been accused of everything else by some, so why not that?
With the large number of folks in this forum from California, I would have guessed that the phrase would have been "more than one way to skin a soybean".
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post #1398 of 5758 Old 05-29-2015, 07:07 AM
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Was anyone able to get the OTW150 mount from Best Buy? Did they have it stocked?

Since they are offering it free with the purchase of the set now, I want to go back and get mine.

I really want to be able to tilt the set and get the range of motion that the OTW150 offers.

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post #1399 of 5758 Old 05-29-2015, 02:42 PM
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Here is something to try when making a profile for the EG.

Use light High, set your High and Low grayscale settings tweak with the 20 point settings.
Use 10 bit color patterns, APL linear background. Use PC level 0-255 pattern out put.
Once complete and the 3DLUT is installed, change over to brightness low video level, if needed you may need to increase the brightness setting by 1 or 2 clicks.

This seems to mask the black bars for the most part. The last measurement report I posted was done using this method.
As always I used wide gamut.

ss

Update.

After more testing last night, I think what is happening is my TV is very new. So because it had more hours on it when I did the test and reported on the black edge issue. That may be why it seemed to mask the black bars.

I ran a very large profile (11000+ point measurements) last night, the report on the completed profile looks very good, but I still need to make three different 3DLUT's (2.2, 2.4 and BT.1886) from that profile and then test.

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post #1400 of 5758 Old 05-30-2015, 06:51 AM
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Any updates on the main board and power supply repair to fix the edge black banding issue? I believe there are a few other users that had service calls on Friday. Mine got moved back to next week because the parts were delayed. Looking forward to hearing updates and if it solved the issue.
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post #1401 of 5758 Old 05-30-2015, 10:01 AM
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Any updates on the main board and power supply repair to fix the edge black banding issue? I believe there are a few other users that had service calls on Friday. Mine got moved back to next week because the parts were delayed. Looking forward to hearing updates and if it solved the issue.
My repair got bumped to Monday June 1st. The tech said the parts all came in. Ill report back on Monday as soon as they leave.
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post #1402 of 5758 Old 05-31-2015, 05:43 PM
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These reports are from my 65EG9600 with 157 hours, I also made a new meter profile matrix for the K10-A using a Jeti 1211 as the reference meter.

You will also see that all the talk about ASBL is not really relevant, if you are using a reference color meter. All these reports were taken without pause.
I made three 3DLUT's from the same profile, Gamma 2.2, 2.4 and BT.1886.
I ran the same reports on the 2.4 and BT.1886, the reports were almost identical.

You can use these reports to compare if you have a "pro" calibrate your EG9600. Most "pro" calibrators use Calman so the reports probably will have the same templates.
Note, I only used Calman for my pre profiling settings and to run these reports.

ss
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post #1403 of 5758 Old 05-31-2015, 11:24 PM
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Why max lum at 178 cd/m2 . Isn't too bright for nightime viewing?
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post #1404 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 12:09 AM
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Probably.
Those reports are for my day viewing 3DLUT, gamma setting of 2.2.
I also made 2 more 3DLUT's all from the same profile for night viewing, gamma's of 2.4 and BT.1886.
All reports are about the same out come as the one I posted.

ss

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post #1405 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 12:11 AM
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I see! They look great.
Now.. how's the image and I still hope for a comparison with vt60 with pros and cons of each other.
Thanks!
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post #1406 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
These reports are from my 65EG9600 with 157 hours, I also made a new meter profile matrix for the K10-A using a Jeti 1211 as the reference meter.

You will also see that all the talk about ASBL is not really relevant, if you are using a reference color meter. All these reports were taken without pause.
I made three 3DLUT's from the same profile, Gamma 2.2, 2.4 and BT.1886.
I ran the same reports on the 2.4 and BT.1886, the reports were almost identical.

You can use these reports to compare if you have a "pro" calibrate your EG9600. Most "pro" calibrators use Calman so the reports probably will have the same templates.
Note, I only used Calman for my pre profiling settings and to run these reports.

ss
How is the screen uniformity on the new set compared to the old set. Do you have any dark edges or banding?
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Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
Any updates on the main board and power supply repair to fix the edge black banding issue? I believe there are a few other users that had service calls on Friday. Mine got moved back to next week because the parts were delayed. Looking forward to hearing updates and if it solved the issue.
My repair got bumped to Monday June 1st. The tech said the parts all came in. Ill report back on Monday as soon as they leave.
Repair man should be here in 10 minutes. Fingers crossed
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post #1408 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sundiego View Post
Any updates on the main board and power supply repair to fix the edge black banding issue? I believe there are a few other users that had service calls on Friday. Mine got moved back to next week because the parts were delayed. Looking forward to hearing updates and if it solved the issue.
My repair got bumped to Monday June 1st. The tech said the parts all came in. Ill report back on Monday as soon as they leave.
Repair man should be here in 10 minutes. Fingers crossed
Per LG. The tv is in spec. There will be NO repair. The tech who came out saw the issue and agreed there was something wrong but LG said NO. I will be returning the tv.
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post #1409 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 08:55 AM
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Sorry to hear about that Joe. Do you have pictures of what it was that LG considered 'in spec'?
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post #1410 of 5758 Old 06-01-2015, 08:58 AM
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Per LG. The tv is in spec. There will be NO repair. The tech who came out saw the issue and agreed there was something wrong but LG said NO. I will be returning the tv.

Well, that sucks!

First they tell you on the phone that they are aware of the problem and have hardware to fix it.

Then they send a tech to change the hardware and then don't change it?

wtf?
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