LG 77" OLED 77EG9700 Anticipation Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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LG 77" OLED 77EG9700 Anticipation Thread

This TV has been announced for awhile now and we don't have an anticipation thread on the forums. Am I the only one interested in it? I'm in need of a larger TV and the 2015 FALD offerings just aren't holding a candle to my 55" ec9300 or ea8800 when it comes to black levels and contrast, two very important categories for me.

I know it's expensive, but I see we have some 85" XBR950B and 88" JS9500 owners on here and those TVs are in the same price range. So their are some of us out there willing to spend this kind of money.

Some questions I have:

Will the EG9700 get the same firmware update the EG9600 is to enable HDR from streaming sources? I would imagine it would, but LG didn't confirm that.

Does the EG9700 have full 18gbps Hdmi 2.0a ports with hdcp 2.2? Or could it be upgraded to have them down the road?

Will LG just ditch the EG9700 and come fall replace it with the EG9900? I think they announced the EG9700 last September so it's already going on a year with no commercial availability. I saw their 77 OLED at CES two years ago, but I think that was a 77EC9800 which never came to light.

Does anyone on the forums own this set yet? It's been reviewed many times so there are some units out there. If so, where did you get it from?

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post #2 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
This TV has been announced for awhile now and we don't have an anticipation thread on the forums. Am I the only one interested in it? I'm in need of a larger TV and the 2015 FALD offerings just aren't holding a candle to my 55" ec9300 or ea8800 when it comes to black levels and contrast, two very important categories for me.

I know it's expensive, but I see we have some 85" XBR950B and 88" JS9500 owners on here and those TVs are in the same price range. So their are some of us out there willing to spend this kind of money.

Some questions I have:

Will the EG9700 get the same firmware update the EG9600 is to enable HDR from streaming sources? I would imagine it would, but LG didn't confirm that.

Does the EG9700 have full 18gbps Hdmi 2.0a ports with hdcp 2.2? Or could it be upgraded to have them down the road?

Will LG just ditch the EG9700 and come fall replace it with the EG9900? I think they announced the EG9700 last September so it's already going on a year with no commercial availability. I saw their 77 OLED at CES two years ago, but I think that was a 77EC9800 which never came to light.

Does anyone on the forums own this set yet? It's been reviewed many times so there are some units out there. If so, where did you get it from?



Contact Video and Audio Center in California (1-866-822-2289 and ask for Joseph) for 77" EG. They may have it in stock. The rest of your questions, I cannot answer. I have no idea.
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post #3 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 09:12 AM
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Spent a lot of time looking at the 77" OLED and the 78" Samsung LCD - decided on the Samsung and here's why.


Current OLEDs will not do HDR. It is not an issue of a FW update. They don't have the nits/brightness and the processing to accomplish this. Perhaps in the future, I don't know.


As far as black levels and contrast, while the OLEDs crush the LCDs in this area, the QUALITY of the blacks is poor. While they are darker, they also tend to crush black and introduce a lot of noise (not in the signal) into the black area. I found this extremely distracting.


The OLEDs DO tend to suffer burn-in. Took a look at the OLED at the local Best Buy which has been running a demo loop for a couple of months. Had the store manager turn it off for a couple of days to see if it was just image retention. Nope. Damn set was burned and burned badly. Too much money to risk it and have a set with that limited a lifespan.


Color accuracy was poor on the OLED, though well saturated. Every calibrator I know who has worked on the OLEDs from LG has complained about their CMS and ability to be calibrated. The Samsung was damn near perfect in this regard.


In the end, OLED is a very new technology and has a long way to go until mature. Prices will fall and standards will change. The Samsung on the other hand has a separate I/O box which can be easily upgraded and is based on a very mature and established technology.


While I initially was going to go for the OLED, even at the same price, I would still take the Samsung LCD at this point. Perhaps upgrade in a couple of years though.

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post #4 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 09:31 AM
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Not true

If you calibrate them carefully, they don't crush black.

And the thing with burn in... uhm, you can't bve serious or are you??! Giving as example a TV which had to suffer months of the same loop??! Really??!

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post #5 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 09:35 AM
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Agreed, you can calibrate them carefully and they won't crush blacks, too much. However, as the set drifts (and all do), you will be right back there. It also depends upon the source materials and the color space and blacker than black settings. I've calibrated a lot of sets, and this is not an advantage of OLED.


My point on the burn-in is that it does happen over time. If you are playing games on it, or tend to watch something with a news ticker a lot, for example. The demo situation is indeed a "worst case" but it does show a problem with OLED - potentially a very small one, but not to be ignored.

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post #6 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 11:45 AM
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Couldn't disagree more about the 'quality' of blacks. IMO they are superb with a decent calibration and far better than any LCD, FALD or not.

As for 'drifting', there is no evidence that they lose their calibration any quicker than any other emissive display. I'm not even sure if they're any worse than an LCD in that regard.

As for burn-in, there is little evidence that in a home environment there is any real risk (just look at owner reports for any recent model). Yes, they can be prone to IR, but that's far different than burn-in, especially with LG's compensation algorithm.
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post #7 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 12:07 PM
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OLED doesn't have HDR (yet), but I also compared OLED 65" with Samsung S9500 and I think OLED beats Samsung by far (IMHO) in picture quality, even without HDR.
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post #8 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 06:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sharok View Post
OLED doesn't have HDR (yet), but I also compared OLED 65" with Samsung S9500 and I think OLED beats Samsung by far (IMHO) in picture quality, even without HDR.
See, the problem there is the JS9500 has HDR and OLED does not. The one review that directly compared them preferred the HDR material on the JS9500 over the OLED. Also, let me know where you can get the 65" 4K OLED for $3995 like the Samsung. OLED is currently 2.5x the price and that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF LCD get cheaper much quicker than OLED.
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post #9 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
See, the problem there is the JS9500 has HDR and OLED does not. The one review that directly compared them preferred the HDR material on the JS9500 over the OLED. Also, let me know where you can get the 65" 4K OLED for $3995 like the Samsung. OLED is currently 2.5x the price and that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF LCD get cheaper much quicker than OLED.
The list price for 65" js9500 is $4999 not that it helps by being close to oled prices. Still $4k away from oled.
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post #10 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
See, the problem there is the JS9500 has HDR and OLED does not. The one review that directly compared them preferred the HDR material on the JS9500 over the OLED. Also, let me know where you can get the 65" 4K OLED for $3995 like the Samsung. OLED is currently 2.5x the price and that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF LCD get cheaper much quicker than OLED.
And someone no less than Joe Kane, preferred OLED without HDR to LCD with HDR.
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post #11 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post
See, the problem there is the JS9500 has HDR and OLED does not. The one review that directly compared them preferred the HDR material on the JS9500 over the OLED. Also, let me know where you can get the 65" 4K OLED for $3995 like the Samsung. OLED is currently 2.5x the price and that gap is only going to get bigger as WHF LCD get cheaper much quicker than OLED.
You're correct. OLED is more expensive than SUHD. But the thread starter (OneStepAhead) is looking at the TVs with a "cost no object" point of view. He's concerned with the picture quality only. I don't think he cares about the price difference.


What HDR materials? Do you mean the demo materials???? How many times a day can you sit and watch the demo materials with the hope that one day it'll become a common format?
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post #12 of 53 Old 05-31-2015, 10:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sharok View Post
You're correct. OLED is more expensive than SUHD. But the thread starter (OneStepAhead) is looking at the TVs with a "cost no object" point of view. He's concerned with the picture quality only. I don't think he cares about the price difference.


What HDR materials? Do you mean the demo materials???? How many times a day can you sit and watch the demo materials with the hope that one day it'll become a common format?
HDR will happen very quickly. You have 4K HDR streaming starting soon and U-Ray players by the end of the year. I would guess nearly all U-Ray titles will have at least the SMPTE version of HDR, as it would not make sense to rescan the master prints for 4K and WCG resolution and not included an HDR grading at the same time.
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And someone no less than Joe Kane, preferred OLED without HDR to LCD with HDR.
Obviously OLED will do some things better and WHF LCD will do some thing better. For his and your purposes it sounds like OLED is the way to go, but you have to realize both of your opinions are based on a handful of pre-release demos on displays of varying ability. We know excellent black levels are possible on a properly implemented FALD LCD because of the Elite, so maybe Vizio puts all the pieces together with the Vizio R, or Panasonic or even Hisense. And truthfully, many many equally reputable AV people besides Joe Kane felt the Vizio R displaying DolbyVision HDR had the best picture quality of any display at CES, including the excellent LG OLEDs.
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post #14 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 04:49 AM
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^ Keep in mind that Joe Kane is considered by most to be THE 'guru' of the video world. He provides input into the very standards we're talking about.

He has also seen HDR demos that we haven't, the best of the best. He knows what great HDR looks like and despite that, in terms of overall PQ, he still picks OLED. He picks it not just because of the superior blacks, but because he feels OLED's assets exceed LCD with HDR. That says something.

I spoke to him at one of the shootouts at VE and besides being very impressed with his amazing technical knowledge, I was also very impressed with how he tempers that knowledge with a heavy dose of realism. Although he's a fan of HDR, he understands the limitations in certain viewing environments.
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post #15 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't anticipate HDR mich HDR content in the next 3 years. We're still waiting on 4K content! Since 3 years is the absolute max id keep a TV before moving it into a secondary room, selling it, or giving it to a friend or family member, I've deciced to give HDR a bottom priority. I guess it would help if I could actually see some HDR content so I know what I'm even missing.

And then the fact that we are probably a 90% TV 10% movie family, HDR becomes even less important since I don't see HDR coming to TV for a long time. For all we know Sony and Samsungs HDR implementations have huge problems, we'd never know since we can't test it right now. Being an early adopter sometimes sucks!

The extended critical look thread mentions some negatives of the set, but does wrap up saying it's likely the best set on the market this year. I bought an X940C that I'm returning and have went to see the JS9500 maybe five times. They are great LCDs no doubt but they just don't have enough zones to compete with OLEDs blacks. If pricing was the same the large majority of us would be buying OLED over FALD I believe.

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post #16 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharok View Post
You're correct. OLED is more expensive than SUHD. But the thread starter (OneStepAhead) is looking at the TVs with a "cost no object" point of view. He's concerned with the picture quality only. I don't think he cares about the price difference.


What HDR materials? Do you mean the demo materials???? How many times a day can you sit and watch the demo materials with the hope that one day it'll become a common format?
Well I don't think I can say I don't care about it entirely. I dont believe the EG9700 is twice the quality of the JS9500, but that is always how high end goods always work. You pay double for 10% improvement. I'm the kind of guy where if I do buy the JS9500 it's going to eat away at me that I didn't get the OLED.

As far as the firmware update for HDR, they said it would increase brightness to make it work. It won't be in spec, but I'm sure it will have a noticeable effect.

I was at CES this year but I couldn't get away from the casino long enough to actually attend the event I wish I had now so I could of seen what the HDR hoopla was about. Is there a demo I can download to play back on my x940C? HDR might not even be enabled out of the box though.

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Oh so wait EG9700 has WebOS 1.0? That's odd since the EG9600 is 2.0. So maybe only the EG9600 will get the HDR update after all. Id still like to have HDR even if we might not use it much, especially given the price I'm looking at. LG considers the EG9700 to be a 2014 set. Only 2015 sets have WebOS 2.0 and the potential HDR firmware update.

Now I'm wondering if I should wait for the EG9900?

I assumed the only difference was it could be curved or flat. But if it has web o/s 2.0 and the HDR update, might be worth waiting a couple months. Can only imagine what they'll charge for it though!

Well crap, I don't want to buy something that's already outdated, especially at this price. What to do what to do.

77EG9700
77EG9900
65EG9600
78JS9500

If I hadn't just bought an expensive 82" wide stand from Standout Designs Id just scoop the 65. Maybe just put the stand in storage till fall and get the 65? I can always repurpose the 65 to our second living room once EG9900 arrives. But will the 9900 even fully support HDR from Bluray?

Ideally my 25k TV would have the latest web os, proper hdmi, working CMS.

Sony XBR-75Z9D + Samsung 78JS9500 + LG 65OLEDC6P + 55EC9300 + 55EA8800 OLED
Denon X5200W + Integral + Oppo BDP-103D
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post #18 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
I don't anticipate HDR mich HDR content in the next 3 years. We're still waiting on 4K content! Since 3 years is the absolute max id keep a TV before moving it into a secondary room, selling it, or giving it to a friend or family member, I've deciced to give HDR a bottom priority. I guess it would help if I could actually see some HDR content so I know what I'm even missing.

And then the fact that we are probably a 90% TV 10% movie family, HDR becomes even less important since I don't see HDR coming to TV for a long time. For all we know Sony and Samsungs HDR implementations have huge problems, we'd never know since we can't test it right now. Being an early adopter sometimes sucks!

The extended critical look thread mentions some negatives of the set, but does wrap up saying it's likely the best set on the market this year. I bought an X940C that I'm returning and have went to see the JS9500 maybe five times. They are great LCDs no doubt but they just don't have enough zones to compete with OLEDs blacks. If pricing was the same the large majority of us would be buying OLED over FALD I believe.
If you have a BB in your area, chances are you'll be able to see an HDR demo on the new Samsung LCDs. They show clips from Life of Pi and a few other demos.

Like you, HDR is on the bottom of my list.
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post #19 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 07:19 AM
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Oh so wait EG9700 has WebOS 1.0? That's odd since the EG9600 is 2.0. So maybe only the EG9600 will get the HDR update after all. Id still like to have HDR even if we might not use it much, especially given the price I'm looking at. LG considers the EG9700 to be a 2014 set. Only 2015 sets have WebOS 2.0 and the potential HDR firmware update.

Now I'm wondering if I should wait for the EG9900?

I assumed the only difference was it could be curved or flat. But if it has web o/s 2.0 and the HDR update, might be worth waiting a couple months. Can only imagine what they'll charge for it though!

Well crap, I don't want to buy something that's already outdated, especially at this price. What to do what to do.

77EG9700
77EG9900
65EG9600
78JS9500

If I hadn't just bought an expensive 82" wide stand from Standout Designs Id just scoop the 65. Maybe just put the stand in storage till fall and get the 65? I can always repurpose the 65 to our second living room once EG9900 arrives. But will the 9900 even fully support HDR from Bluray?

Ideally my 25k TV would have the latest web os, proper hdmi, working CMS.
It's my understanding that the EG9700 will receive an update to WebOS2. As for the HDR update, I'm not sure.

I'm sure you're aware, but the EG9700s are available now and have been for several months.
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post #20 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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It's my understanding that the EG9700 will receive an update to WebOS2. As for the HDR update, I'm not sure.

I'm sure you're aware, but the EG9700s are available now and have been for several months.
If it received the web os 2.0 update and the same HDR update EG9600 was getting Id buy the 77 today. I wonder how I can confirm that...

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post #21 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 07:55 AM
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If it received the web os 2.0 update and the same HDR update EG9600 was getting Id buy the 77 today. I wonder how I can confirm that...
That's a good question. I haven't seen anyone confirm that. LG has been sketchy on these details.
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post #22 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 12:57 PM
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If it received the web os 2.0 update and the same HDR update EG9600 was getting Id buy the 77 today. I wonder how I can confirm that...
What makes you think LG would upgrade a 2014 model to webOS2. I don't think they would want to upgrade the processor in all there 2014 models, do you.
As far as upgrading the HDR to the same as the EG9600. Unless LG clearly states they will, its not going to happen.

If you look at LG OLED web site, it clearly states for the 77EG9700 "webOS"
The EG9600 clearly states "webOS2"

ss

Edit added. I don't see even in the specs of the EG9600 say "HDR", although LG says they increased the brightness of the 2015 models (EG9600) by 10%.

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post #23 of 53 Old 06-01-2015, 02:49 PM
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^ Because LG has already stated they WILL update many of the models that currently have OS1 to OS2. It apparently has nothing to do with upgrading the processor.
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post #24 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 01:48 AM
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Check this youtube channel they test the local dimming performance of the Samsung JS9000 ,JS9500 .HU8500 that is the HU9000 US version and other LCD models ,I personally can't live with that unstable black level retention ,halos and blooming.

watch the videos in full screen.

https://www.youtube.com/user/hdtvpolskacom/videos

HDR with poor Local dimming performance? no thanks....

If they don't fix the local dimming issues ,then my option in the future probably is going to be OLED.

Last edited by losservatore; 06-02-2015 at 02:13 AM.
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post #25 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
What makes you think LG would upgrade a 2014 model to webOS2. I don't think they would want to upgrade the processor in all there 2014 models, do you.
As far as upgrading the HDR to the same as the EG9600. Unless LG clearly states they will, its not going to happen.

If you look at LG OLED web site, it clearly states for the 77EG9700 "webOS"
The EG9600 clearly states "webOS2"

ss

Edit added. I don't see even in the specs of the EG9600 say "HDR", although LG says they increased the brightness of the 2015 models (EG9600) by 10%.
HDR is not listed in the specs on the EG9600, it was announce late last month they are rolling out a firmware updated for it. I've since found out the EG9700 doesn't have enough nits for HDR, so it looks like it will only come to the EG9600. Both Ken Ross and Value Electronics state LG is updating it to web os 2.0.

Ultimately web os doesn't make a difference if I'm going to run it with an external Lumagen processor.

What i wasn't aware of is the set being a 2014 model. Makes little sense given its called EG9700 and didn't see commercial release until 2015.

However, there aren't any large OLEDs to even hold out for anytime soon. EG9900 is rumored to be $40'000 apparently. Maybe next CES they'll show off an EH99700 that gets released in in late 2016 or maybe even 2017.

So if you want a large OLED, it's EG9700 or bust for maybe a year or two.

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post #26 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
HDR is not listed in the specs on the EG9600, it was announce late last month they are rolling out a firmware updated for it. I've since found out the EG9700 doesn't have enough nits for HDR, so it looks like it will only come to the EG9600. Both Ken Ross and Value Electronics state LG is updating it to web os 2.0.

Ultimately web os doesn't make a difference if I'm going to run it with an external Lumagen processor.

What i wasn't aware of is the set being a 2014 model. Makes little sense given its called EG9700 and didn't see commercial release until 2015.

However, there aren't any large OLEDs to even hold out for anytime soon. EG9900 is rumored to be $40'000 apparently. Maybe next CES they'll show off an EH99700 that gets released in in late 2016 or maybe even 2017.

So if you want a large OLED, it's EG9700 or bust for maybe a year or two.
Unfortunately, I think you're right.
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post #27 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 08:36 AM
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Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Yeah and that is a big part of the reason I went ahead and jumped on the 65" 9600.

Plus, those last 12" on the 65-77 were way too expensive

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post #28 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 09:37 AM
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^ Because LG has already stated they WILL update many of the models that currently have OS1 to OS2. It apparently has nothing to do with upgrading the processor.
That is correct.
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post #29 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 12:24 PM
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Yeah and that is a big part of the reason I went ahead and jumped on the 65" 9600.

Plus, those last 12" on the 65-77 were way too expensive
I hear ya.

I just got back from BB to take another look at the 65". I specifically looked for the edge darkening and although, at times, I could see it in darker scenes, it was more a case of me focusing on it.

When I was just watching a video, I was not aware of it. In either case it looked absolutely nothing like Joe's pix in the other thread.
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post #30 of 53 Old 06-02-2015, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OneStepAhead View Post
Both Ken Ross and Value Electronics state LG is updating it to web os 2.0.

Ultimately web os doesn't make a difference if I'm going to run it with an external Lumagen processor.
Yes Ken gets his info from Robert.

The thing is when using Webos2, its said to be 65% faster. I would think the reason for the 65% faster is the Quad Core processor. So updating the layout of there apps maybe (That would be software related) but probably will not increase the performance of the apps.
As It stands right now with the EG9600 there can be a small delay when bring up the apps and sometimes changing apps. But nothing to cause a issue.

As for using a Lumagen, that shouldn't change the WEBos system of the LG OLED.
For calibrating, I have tried to run a 9x3 (729 point) for the Lumagen 2041, profile/grayscale calibration using Calman. The results for the EG9600 PQ wasn't very good. On paper the test results were fine but viewing PQ wasn't.

The only reason why I am still playing with the 65EG9600 is because of the large discount I got on it. I still have a 65VT60, that is a great plasma.

Yes Robert said the price of the 2015 model 77" will be about 25% higher.

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Last edited by sillysally; 06-02-2015 at 01:59 PM.
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