2015 Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout Results - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
I'm not sure that's true when comparing against Sony LCDs if you have backlight scanning active, or other LCDs which use a single strobe.

Plasmas have "phosphor lag" issues which manifest as colored trails/image separation similar to DLP "rainbows".
As far as my perception goes, that is worse than DLP rainbows.
LCDs don't have that issue.

Plasmas don't handle very fast motion that well either. They have about 4-8ms persistence - with most being on the higher end of that scale.
The best LCDs can be set to <1ms persistence.
I don't know what the current Sony models offer. Typically it has been an on/off switch and they used 4ms. It looked like this is now adjustable on the 940c.
The advantage plasmas have is their pixels go dark between refreshes (1 ms or less) which works with our eyes persistence of vision. LCD pixels don't change quite as quickly and *usually don't blank out between frames. The result is the persistence of image in our eyes clashes with the afterimage on the screen with a LCD. This is why some LCD televisions have *black frame insertion where they try to mimic phosphor-based displays.

Even with black frame insertion, strobing the backlight and motion interpolation plasma motion blur is still better and more natural to the eye than LCD motion.

It's true that some folks notice flickering and phosphor trailing from plasmas which I understand can be quite annoying for them.

Judder is different from motion blur and is a problem with both displays. Controlling judder is not a strong point of my E7000.
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post #1412 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Yappadappadu View Post
Vertical banding on near black can also appear on the Full HD sets, while the dark edges seems to be exclusive to the 55" and 65" 4K OLED TV's. Don't know about the 77".
I wish that was true. It would give us some hope that LG knows how to produce a TV without the issue. But the 1080p models had the same problem. Attached image of the 930/9300. Source: See here.
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post #1413 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
This is my dilemma at the moment. Logic tells me the 10" size gain is the way to go, but the lure of somewhat better blacks is also there with the OLED.
You and me both here. I almost placed my order the other day at work, but I'm still holding out just a tad longer to decide what i'm going with. Being a plasma guy and after seeing a 9600 in person (no edge issues oddly) I'm still flip flopping around. Being a plasma guy the 9600 was right up my alley. The motion/judder though, there some issues there for me. While not bad like the Samsungs, they were distracting. Then being a gamer, that burn in issue is a little disturbing. After seeing how our 9300 was destroyed by burn in, i'm very scared about it.

It's coming down to a 930 or 940C, or, the OLED. That 940C size thing though I'm still having concerns with.
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post #1414 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
I'm not sure that's true when comparing against Sony LCDs if you have backlight scanning active, or other LCDs which use a single strobe.

Plasmas have "phosphor lag" issues which manifest as colored trails/image separation similar to DLP "rainbows".
As far as my perception goes, that is worse than DLP rainbows.
LCDs don't have that issue.

Plasmas don't handle very fast motion that well either. They have about 4-8ms persistence - with most being on the higher end of that scale.
The best LCDs can be set to <1ms persistence.
I don't know what the current Sony models offer. Typically it has been an on/off switch and they used 4ms. It looked like this is now adjustable on the 940c.

lol debate that, with the experts, reviewers and the people that were choosing the Plasma every year in the shootouts as the best motion handling displays.

of course with the exception of CRT.

I own 4 LCD displays just in case you're thinking that I'm an LCD hater.
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post #1415 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
I'm not sure that's true when comparing against Sony LCDs if you have backlight scanning active, or other LCDs which use a single strobe.

Plasmas have "phosphor lag" issues which manifest as colored trails/image separation similar to DLP "rainbows".
As far as my perception goes, that is worse than DLP rainbows.
LCDs don't have that issue.

Plasmas don't handle very fast motion that well either. They have about 4-8ms persistence - with most being on the higher end of that scale.
The best LCDs can be set to <1ms persistence.
I don't know what the current Sony models offer. Typically it has been an on/off switch and they used 4ms. It looked like this is now adjustable on the 940c.
There is a Clearness setting on 2015 sony's. When set to full you will get 1080 lines of motion resolution but you also will get flicker, brightness loss and double imaging on fast pans so good luck with that.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55x...1506224127.htm
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post #1416 of 1566 Old 07-06-2015, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Dr View Post
You and me both here. I almost placed my order the other day at work, but I'm still holding out just a tad longer to decide what i'm going with. Being a plasma guy and after seeing a 9600 in person (no edge issues oddly) I'm still flip flopping around. Being a plasma guy the 9600 was right up my alley. The motion/judder though, there some issues there for me. While not bad like the Samsungs, they were distracting. Then being a gamer, that burn in issue is a little disturbing. After seeing how our 9300 was destroyed by burn in, i'm very scared about it.

It's coming down to a 930 or 940C, or, the OLED. That 940C size thing though I'm still having concerns with.

I saw the edge issue now in best buy...but I had to tweak it to see it.

Grab the remote and put the eg9600 in ifs expert 1 mode. Then go to advanced settings and change black level to 'high'. At this point you will have an out of whack set of settings but you will see the issue even under the lighting at best buy.
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post #1417 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
There is a Clearness setting on 2015 sony's. When set to full you will get 1080 lines of motion resolution but you also will get flicker, brightness loss and double imaging on fast pans so good luck with that.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55x...1506224127.htm
Perhaps I am misinterpreting the S&M 2D motion tests but the 940c appears to do full 1080p24 with clear on but set to min which does not reduce light output or cause any flicker that is visible to my eyes.
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post #1418 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 04:51 AM
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There's no harm in waiting a few months. Prices only go down.

My gut feeling is LG will get this worked out soon. It's possible they already have a solution but want to sell off their existing inventory before making an announcement. Maybe that's why they had the sudden $2K price drop.
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post #1419 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
I saw the edge issue now in best buy...but I had to tweak it to see it.

Grab the remote and put the eg9600 in ifs expert 1 mode. Then go to advanced settings and change black level to 'high'. At this point you will have an out of whack set of settings but you will see the issue even under the lighting at best buy.
I saw it in Best Buy without having to do anything. Although it was subtle.

What I saw wasn't a huge deal. It looked like something that would be noticeable less than 1% of the time. It's rare that I see a movie that doesn't have some glitch in it. Pauses/jumps, pixellation, etc... seem to happen every so often in every movie I watch on FIOS. I could certainly live with 2 minutes of dark edges within a 2 hr movie.
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post #1420 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I saw it in Best Buy without having to do anything. Although it was subtle.

What I saw wasn't a huge deal. It looked like something that would be noticeable less than 1% of the time. It's rare that I see a movie that doesn't have some glitch in it. Pauses/jumps, pixellation, etc... seem to happen every so often in every movie I watch on FIOS. I could certainly live with 2 minutes of dark edges within a 2 hr movie.
What you say speaks to why videophiles like physical media. If you are a perfectionist, if something only has one flaw, it's bound to be something you notice. But, if you watch glitchy streams with artifact-laden shadows and such, you almost certainly won't focus on that specific issue.
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post #1421 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post
Perhaps I am misinterpreting the S&M 2D motion tests but the 940c appears to do full 1080p24 with clear on but set to min which does not reduce light output or cause any flicker that is visible to my eyes.
When you look at Rtings Q&A pictures of the various X830C Clearness options you see that Clearness 5 gives the best motion resolution. Clearness set to 5 is probably similar to Clearness set to max on the X940C.
http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/x830c

ChadD stated that the X940C does 1080 in Clear, not shure what he means by that.
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post #1422 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
The advantage plasmas have is their pixels go dark between refreshes (1 ms or less) which works with our eyes persistence of vision.
Plasmas rely on persistence of vision to create full-color images, just like DLPs.
They switch the pixels on and off at varying rates in order to create shades.

Here you can see an example of this behavior, and also the difference in rise/decay times:


As you can see above, blue responds very quickly and displays a near-perfect square wave.
Green and Red are much slower to respond.

That's why you can end up with bad image separation like this:


Note that the CRT also has slower green/red phosphors, but does not have a significant portion of the leading edge displaying as blue, the majority of the effects are on the trailing edge, and they are far less noticeable.


It's why you also get "flashes" of color even when looking at static images on plasma if you move your eyes (saccades) similar to an old CCFL backlit LCD with bad PWM dimming.

VT60 Static:


VT60 with eye (camera) movement:


Source

This is why I cannot stand to watch any plasma TV, and why I don't consider them to be good at motion handling at all.

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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
LCD pixels don't change quite as quickly and *usually don't blank out between frames. The result is the persistence of image in our eyes clashes with the afterimage on the screen with a LCD. This is why some LCD televisions have *black frame insertion where they try to mimic phosphor-based displays.
Yes, that is why dark frame insertion is largely ineffective with LCDs. The panels are too slow to change to black in-between frames, and black on an LCD is usually not that dark.

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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Even with black frame insertion, strobing the backlight and motion interpolation plasma motion blur is still better and more natural to the eye than LCD motion.
Backlight scanning/strobing decouples the insertion of the dark frames from the LCD panel.
The LCD can be as fast or as slow as it likes, but the LED backlight switching times are effectively instantaneous.

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Judder is different from motion blur and is a problem with both displays. Controlling judder is not a strong point of my E7000.
Judder is due to a number of factors.
The biggest issue with judder on a plasma display is that they do not refresh at the source framerate.
With LCDs that use backlight scanning/strobing, they usually do refresh at the source framerate for 60 FPS content at least.

For 24p you must use interpolation to eliminate judder caused by the display, if you want sharp motion.
No display is going to refresh at 24Hz due to the amount of flicker that would create, and if they won't refresh at 24Hz, then you must interpolate to a higher rate. (e.g. 48Hz)

It's either that or you use a full-persistence display with instantaneous switching times (OLED) and get all the motion blur which comes with it - but the judder from refreshing the screen at a different rate from the source framerate should be eliminated.

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I own 4 LCD displays just in case you're thinking that I'm an LCD hater.
But do you own any LCDs which use backlight scanning/strobing?

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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
There is a Clearness setting on 2015 sony's. When set to full you will get 1080 lines of motion resolution but you also will get flicker, brightness loss and double imaging on fast pans so good luck with that.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55x...1506224127.htm
Flicker is the only way to reduce motion blur on any display, until we get significantly higher source framerates. (hundreds if not thousands of frames per second)
Plasmas flicker, CRTs flickered.
LCD without backlight scanning/strobing, and OLED without dark frame insertion do not flicker, so both show lots of motion blur with fast movement.

Brightness loss is to be expected since you are switching the backlight off for a large duration of the frame.
Fortunately these new LCD sets have really bright backlights to support HDR, which can help reduce the effects.

Double-images on fast pans happens when you have a low-persistence display (of any type) and your source framerate is half of the refresh rate.
E.g. 24 FPS at 48Hz. As mentioned above, the only solution for this is to use interpolation or match the refresh rate to the framerate - the latter of which just can't happen at 24Hz.
It gets worse as you increase the refresh rate. You would see triple-images with 24FPS at 72Hz or quadruple-images at 96Hz.
Eventually it gets to the point at which the refresh rate is high enough that those multiple images blend together, which results in the motion blur you see on full-persistence displays.

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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
When you look at Rtings Q&A pictures of the various X830C Clearness options you see that Clearness 5 gives the best motion resolution. Clearness set to 5 is probably similar to Clearness set to max on the X940C.
http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/x830c

ChadD stated that the X940C does 1080 in Clear, not shure what he means by that.
It looks like that is also the only option which does one strobe per refresh, since all the settings in-between have multiple images.
The others are probably refreshing the image multiple times (e.g. 60 FPS at 120Hz) which is why you end up with multiple images, and each setting will vary the level of persistence (how long the backlight is on for) to adjust the brightness.

Personally, I would prefer to either have the Clear option off, and get the full sample-and-hold motion blur, or have it at 5 to get one refresh per frame.
Though the in-between settings do reduce motion blur and reduce the brightness loss, I cannot stand the judder and "double-images" introduced by having multiple strobes per frame. I'd rather have the motion blur.
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post #1423 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 07:24 AM
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What you say speaks to why videophiles like physical media. If you are a perfectionist, if something only has one flaw, it's bound to be something you notice. But, if you watch glitchy streams with artifact-laden shadows and such, you almost certainly won't focus on that specific issue.
Excellent point. The unfortunate thing is that there are those who would do away with physical media, and force us into an all streaming world.
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post #1424 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 07:41 AM
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What you say speaks to why videophiles like physical media. If you are a perfectionist, if something only has one flaw, it's bound to be something you notice. But, if you watch glitchy streams with artifact-laden shadows and such, you almost certainly won't focus on that specific issue.
I'm not watching glitchy streams. I'm watching HBO/showtime/cinemax on FIOS. Way better quality than Netflix but still has an occasional glitch.

Much better to be normal than a psychopath, I mean perfectionist, who would have a movie completely ruined by a few seconds of imperfection.
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post #1425 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 07:48 AM
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Excellent point. The unfortunate thing is that there are those who would do away with physical media, and force us into an all streaming world.
It will never happen.

It's like 10 years ago when experts proclaimed that everything would be online in a few years and windows applications and games would cease to exist.
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I saw it in Best Buy without having to do anything. Although it was subtle.

What I saw wasn't a huge deal. It looked like something that would be noticeable less than 1% of the time. It's rare that I see a movie that doesn't have some glitch in it. Pauses/jumps, pixellation, etc... seem to happen every so often in every movie I watch on FIOS. I could certainly live with 2 minutes of dark edges within a 2 hr movie.
I could also. If the price was right. Which for the mass consumer market would be around $2500 for the 65" OLED.
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My gut feeling is LG will get this worked out soon.
Based on what?
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post #1428 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 08:54 AM
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Based on what?

Hopes and dreams they MUST be close since this issue has been around for a long time. I hope they do, but if they haven't fixed it by now, it makes one wonder. Once the new production line hits reviewers and owners hopefully there will be positive reviews.


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post #1429 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 09:12 AM
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Chronoptimist after all that you wrote at the end of the day Plasma is been the choice for motion handling ,Im not the only one saying this ,google Plasma vs LCD motion and you will find too many articles about this ,since the very first TV shootout till the very last one ,plasma has won on the motion category ,Plasma is been the best motion handling display after CRT.

too many articles made by experts that talk about Plasma vs LCD and they say plasma handle better motion.


Frame interpolation (motion interpolation) effect makes motion looks like what we see on this video.



also this interpolation create more issues because it breaks the image

.



Halo/Patch/Judder/Broken Artifacts (covered in yellow, uncovered in blue)








LCD is been trying to catch on what Plasma and CRT can do by nature, not the other way.
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post #1430 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 09:36 AM
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This is why I cannot stand to watch any plasma TV, and why I don't consider them to be good at motion handling at all.

Well stated! The image breakup/phosphor lag is something that always turned me off from buying a PDP. So many owners would state "oh, that doesn't happen on mine!".

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Personally, I would prefer to either have the Clear option off, and get the full sample-and-hold motion blur, or have it at 5 to get one refresh per frame.
Though the in-between settings do reduce motion blur and reduce the brightness loss, I cannot stand the judder and "double-images" introduced by having multiple strobes per frame. I'd rather have the motion blur.

I noticed that as well with the X940C - either turn off Clearness/Motion Flow or set it to max. Too bad that the image at max is still pretty dark even if the backlight is maxed out.


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Chronoptimist after all that you wrote at the end of the day Plasma is been the choice for motion handling ,Im not the only one saying this ,google Plasma vs LCD motion and you will find too many articles about this ,since the very first TV shootout till the very last one ,plasma has won on the motion category ,Plasma is been the best motion handling display after CRT.

too many articles made by experts that talk about Plasma vs LCD and they say plasma handle better motion*.

*At the expense of phosphor lag artifacts and dithered edges.

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post #1431 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 09:38 AM
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Based on what?
The problem only occurs on the edge of the screen so all they have to do is compare what's different on the edge to the middle. Worst case scenario is they make the panels a few inches wider and disable the edges. Logically make the screen wider and roll up the edges inside the side bezel.
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post #1432 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 09:41 AM
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It will never happen.
Never is a long time!
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It's like 10 years ago when experts proclaimed that everything would be online in a few years and windows applications and games would cease to exist.
Yeah, those experts were perhaps too quick, but hardly especially wrong. It's an app/cloud world.

I suppose you'll also tell us about how we'll get forever news by chopping down trees, processing the wood, and then spilling ink all over it.. Delivering the end result by truck...

And yet, I'm sure The New York Times has a date in mind when they shut off the presses.
And there are 1,000 companies working on making "traditional Windows app" a thing of the past for good. (They're mostly there already, but that's another convo.)

Disc-based-media is produced by a cartel that controls the production and distribution of a very narrow slice of video entertainment. It will thrive precisely as long as the value of producing it exceeds the value of not producing it. That day feels closer than the day the NYT stops printing. A lot, lot closer.

(It should be noted that just before the end of the dinosaur era, there was 80-ton Seismosaurus making his way across the plains, eating every plant in sight. He seemed like the pinnacle of the giant lizards in terms of his absolute mastery of his role. He may as well have been named UHDBluRaySaurus given his seeming perfection. And then a giant rock hit the Yucatan.)
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post #1433 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 10:01 AM
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And those dino bones are now worth a lot more.

Its a good time to be a bluray collector with prices dropping like its the end of the world
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Never is a long time!
Of course I meant it as a long time. Eventually optical discs will be replaced with another form of portable persistent memory.

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Yeah, those experts were perhaps too quick, but hardly especially wrong. It's an app/cloud world.
Being wrong in timing is still wrong.

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I suppose you'll also tell us about how we'll get forever news by chopping down trees, processing the wood, and then spilling ink all over it.. Delivering the end result by truck...

And yet, I'm sure The New York Times has a date in mind when they shut off the presses.
Wrong. I'm not going to tell you the New York Times will remain in print forever. But I think paper will still be manufactured 100 years from now.

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And there are 1,000 companies working on making "traditional Windows app" a thing of the past for good. (They're mostly there already, but that's another convo.)
What companies are these?

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Disc-based-media is produced by a cartel that controls the production and distribution of a very narrow slice of video entertainment. It will thrive precisely as long as the value of producing it exceeds the value of not producing it. That day feels closer than the day the NYT stops printing. A lot, lot closer.
It's still a multi billion dollar industry. Not sure how you define a very narrow slice.

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(It should be noted that just before the end of the dinosaur era, there was 80-ton Seismosaurus making his way across the plains, eating every plant in sight. He seemed like the pinnacle of the giant lizards in terms of his absolute mastery of his role. He may as well have been named UHDBluRaySaurus given his seeming perfection. And then a giant rock hit the Yucatan.)
So are blu-rays the equivalent of a Seismosaurus or are they a very narrow slice? Your metaphors are confusing.
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post #1435 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 10:26 AM
 
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^^^This counter to Rogo's cogent argument was very confusing.
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post #1436 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 11:08 AM
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LCD is been trying to catch on what Plasma and CRT can do by nature, not the other way.
Agreed. There's nothing inherently wrong with LCD motion as it's more of an issue with how our eyes perceive motion.

But for some folks plasma motion is unwatchable and in some cases causes severe migraines. But this seems to be a somewhat separate issue from motion performance between the 2 displays.

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post #1437 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 11:09 AM
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^^^This counter to Rogo's cogent argument was very confusing.
What part didn't you understand?
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post #1438 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 11:25 AM
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Chronoptimist after all that you wrote at the end of the day Plasma is been the choice for motion handling ,Im not the only one saying this ,google Plasma vs LCD motion and you will find too many articles about this ,since the very first TV shootout till the very last one ,plasma has won on the motion category ,Plasma is been the best motion handling display after CRT.

too many articles made by experts that talk about Plasma vs LCD and they say plasma handle better motion.
Frame interpolation (motion interpolation) effect makes motion looks like what we see on this video.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQbAwE83phk>

also this interpolation create more issues because it breaks the image
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sko_Au5KHyE/mqdefault.jpg
http://www.ifp.illinois.edu/~yuhuang/realtek/broken.jpg

also how the image breaks on every edge while on motion.
http://www.ifp.illinois.edu/~yuhuang/realtek/halo.jpg
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3ydVKYE9fM>
I am not saying that interpolation is an ideal solution by any means.
I would say that the images you have posted are particularly bad examples though.

In that last video, most of the footage is taken from video games without any motion blur, which is quite a different test from 24p films.
You would never enable interpolation with games due to the considerably latency which interpolation adds, and because - with a gaming PC at least - you should be outputting 60 FPS at 60Hz so there is little need for it.

I think that interpolating 24p to 48 FPS would probably suffer from fewer artifacts (interpolation errors, soap opera effect) than trying to interpolate 24 FPS to 120 or 240 FPS. But it will still have errors.
Sony have done a good job with some of their settings which combine interpolation with strobing if you want to see an example of it done well. Of course it will never be perfect.

But these are your only options:
  1. Display 24p on a full-persistence display to eliminate display-based judder, at the expense of having considerable motion blur. (OLED/LCD without dark frame insertion)
  2. Display 24p on a low-persistence display at 24Hz to eliminate motion blur and display-based judder, at the expense of introducing significant flicker. (nothing does this: it is unwatchable)
  3. Display 24p on a low-persistence display to eliminate motion blur, repeating frames (48/72/96/120Hz) to reduce flicker at the expense of introducing considerable judder and double/triple/quadruple/quintuple images. (Plasma, LCD strobing at a multiple of the framerate)
  4. Interpolate 24p to a high framerate (120/240 FPS) to marginally reduce motion blur without any flicker, at the expense of introducing interpolation artifacts. (OLED/LCD)
  5. Interpolate 24p to 48 FPS on a low-persistence display to eliminate motion blur and judder, and reduce flicker at the expense of introducing interpolation artifacts. (certain LCD modes which combine interpolation and strobing)

None of them are ideal.
And if you try to compromise, the result can often be worse.

I took the photographs from RTINGS' Sony X850C review and edited them to be an approximate match in brightness/color to make the comparison easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/x850c
Normal:


Interpolated:


Clearness 2:


Clearness 5:
I would argue that compromising with an intermediate clearness setting to try and reduce flicker and minimize the brightness loss results in worse motion performance than switching it off - or using interpolation - since it appears to be refreshing twice every frame.
Yes, it is sharper, but it comes at the cost of introducing significant double-images/judder. It is not pleasant to try and watch a display where motion looks like that.

If you can ignore the flicker and the loss of brightness, "Clearness 5" obviously provides the best motion handling.
But I expect these tests will have been performed at 60Hz, as I doubt that any display would offer a "single strobe" mode with a 24p input.

Combining the "Clearness 5" mode with interpolation would give you the same motion clarity with half the flicker and double the brightness.
As discussed above, interpolation is obviously imperfect, but it's usually not terrible these days, and this is really the only option for 24p which will give you sharp motion without double-images/judder.
If you don't want the interpolation, you have to use the flicker-free "normal" mode which comes with a lot of motion blur.

Plasmas all display 24p at 48/72/96Hz depending on the model, so they all suffer from these double/triple/quadruple images.
Plasmas often have a medium persistence of around 4-8ms which moderately reduces the impact, but it's always there.


One of the things that I like about LCD, is that you get to decide.
You can have a very bright, flicker-free, interpolation-free display, if you don't mind the motion blur that comes with.
Or you can have a display which has really sharp, clear motion, if you don't mind the flicker and loss of brightness. (most displays are already too bright now - especially in a dark room)
Or you can have some combination of the above which uses interpolation if you find it acceptable.

I don't think they're perfect, and I don't think 24p will ever look great on any display, but I certainly prefer that to plasmas or the limited options available on current OLED displays.
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post #1439 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 11:30 AM
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It will never happen.

It's like 10 years ago when experts proclaimed that everything would be online in a few years and windows applications and games would cease to exist.
I hope you're right.

I think the difference with PCs is that people instinctively want to maintain control over their own private data, which is why Larry Ellison's notion of people's computers as mere terminals never took off.

As much as we like to "own" (or license) media, it's not personal data.

I think corporations will gravitate more quickly to the Cloud than individuals for this reason.

If you spend too much time in the Cloud you will emerge drenched.
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post #1440 of 1566 Old 07-07-2015, 11:42 AM
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I don't think they're perfect, and I don't think 24p will ever look great on any display, but I certainly prefer that to plasmas or the limited options available on current OLED displays.
I don't blame you if you're able to notice flickering and phosphor trailing from plasmas but you seem to be parlaying this into LCDs having better motion performance for everyone.

Most folks don't have your issues with plasmas and for us motion is superior and more natural looking on a plasma. Edit: LCD motion inherently conflicts with our eyes persistence of vision.
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