Am I crazy for liking the curve? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 133 Old 10-09-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
For a scene of a room, this presents a straight line room (the room the room you're in) and a curved room (the scene on the display) simultaneously. Which do you suppose you adapt to?
I don't know. Do you? The room I'm in looks very different to me from any TV image of a room I've ever seen. Is it supposed to be obvious that adding a curve to the TV image gives me an extra task of adaptation?

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post #122 of 133 Old 10-09-2015, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
Until you say what counts as a "distortion", it's not even a meaningful claim, unless you intend "distortion" in the everyday sense that it is an undesirable alteration. And if you do mean it in that sense, in effect you are saying that undesirable alterations are undesirable. That's just playing with words.
The distortion referenced numerous times - geometric distortion - has been crystal clear to everyone else in this thread except, now apparently, you. (Though I don't really believe you were confused). Take a perfect circle, elongate it, you've distorted the geometry. Take a straight line or rectangle, curve it, you've distorted it's geometry. I even provided references as to what "screen geometry" means in AV terms (e.g. correcting for pin cushion for projected images, correcting for geometry on CRTs, etc).

Whether geometric distortion, or any particular distortion, is "undesirable" is subjective and a separate question - up to some criteria one person has (or that he may share with others).

That after all this time, instead of conceding the point made, you will fall back to "what do you mean by distortion?" as if I haven't made it abundantly clear, renders further discussion pointless. This is not a real discussion, it's an "avoid conceding a point at whatever cost" internet syndrome.

I'll leave it to others get on the merry-go-round with you on the subject.

BTW, nice to see a steaming-ratter from way back.

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post #123 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by fryet View Post
Some people might see that additional "depth" and like the picture quality more than a flat image. It isn't accurate, but it could be like the concept of 3D
That's exactly what I wrote in the beginning of the thread.
I agree that curved screens introduce geometrical distortions to the image, but despite this fact, I like them more, because of the much more convincing perception of depth they can create.
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post #124 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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On principle alone I don't like the curve. I was always sensitive to geometric distortions, especially in the CRT days where getting a set without distortions was near impossible, and playing videogames, especially 2D side scrolling ones was a nightmare.

Like I said in my first post, I "forced" myself to at least try the curve because I wanted an OLED, and purchased the LG 8800 OLED. Whenever I went to the store and saw curved displays I balked at them and really just wouldn't have ever considered one, and yes they seemed to distort the picture at the store....

However, after about a week, I started to really notice that I could focus over the entire surface of the screen and see more of the image from corner to corner without moving my eyes. The Sense of Depth to the image was also very apparent to me. I have a bunch of TV's in the house, and most of them are still flat. I am on my third curved display, the Samsung JS9500 and it's curve is more pronounced then the OLED and I think it's even better. I have not been bothered AT ALL with any geometric distortions with actual content, be it video games, movies, sports, etc. The only time I notice a slight bowing is when there is a scrolling ticker on the screen, like news channels have.

I can tell you that for me, the curve does have it's benefits and it doesn't matter what people on this thread spout or what science they bring up, the curve is NOT a gimmick. There are very real perceivable advantages, and I've had friends over and they all liked the curved image and most of them said things like "it's making the image 3D without glasses, etc"

Is the curve for everyone? NO. The curve has the greatest benefit if you sit close to the TV. I sit about 6 feet away from my 65" Samsung JS9500 and to me it's perfect at that distance. I do sit closer then the average person but I'm used to projections screens at 110", but had to go to a TV because of a move to smaller place. Viewing a curved TV from a side angle DOES introduce distortions and is unpleasant. If you have a dedicated area and only watch with a few other people, then I say go for the curve or at least try it before just outright dismissing it! I hope that they offer TV's in both curved and flat......some situations the flat will be better, and some situations the curve will be better.

If you like to be immersed, and have that extra 3D like effect to the image, then I say go with curved, and try it. I bought my OLED expecting to hate the curve and return it within 30 days but guess what, once you try something you may actually like it, (please don't start gross **** now) I just find it really annoying when people talk and talk about stuff they haven't experienced themselves, and no seeing the curve at BB is not experiencing it.

You would think that if the curve was so bad as many claim, then you would have a flood of users returning there sets and getting a flat alternative.....not seeing that happen. If you scan the owners threads for sets like the JS9500, you will find many DO like the curve and see a real benefit to it.

EX. I did not buy the Sony 75" because it was flat. If the Sony was curved and didn't have those dumb speakers, I would have bought it.
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post #125 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraBlack View Post
That's exactly what I wrote in the beginning of the thread.
I agree that curved screens introduce geometrical distortions to the image, but despite this fact, I like them more, because of the much more convincing perception of depth they can create.
Personally, I haven't experienced this "much more convincing perception of depth"with curved panels.
I don't remember such an effect being noted in reviews either e.g.:

http://www.cnet.com/news/trouble-wit...ut-curved-tvs/

I can imagine the curve imparting a subtle depth to certain types of images. And taking away from others.
For me the cons outweigh the pros. (I never liked curved cinema screens either). But I get that some people like the curve.
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post #126 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 09:39 AM
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post #127 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 10:37 AM
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Question for curved users. If you are in a large room, and 15 feet or further from the TV, would the curve still provide any benefit, or would flat be better? It seems like the Panasonic has a larger room in mind with their curve, so just curious.
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post #128 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 02:27 PM
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yes.
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post #129 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fryet View Post
Question for curved users. If you are in a large room, and 15 feet or further from the TV, would the curve still provide any benefit, or would flat be better? It seems like the Panasonic has a larger room in mind with their curve, so just curious.
Not at that distance. I tried watching my 65" from there and all the benefits are pretty much gone. I would go flat at 15 feet, that way you get better viewing angles and at 15 feet distortions will be visible.
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post #130 of 133 Old 10-10-2015, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Personally, I haven't experienced this "much more convincing perception of depth"with curved panels.
I don't remember such an effect being noted in reviews either e.g.:

http://www.cnet.com/news/trouble-wit...ut-curved-tvs/

I can imagine the curve imparting a subtle depth to certain types of images. And taking away from others.
For me the cons outweigh the pros. (I never liked curved cinema screens either). But I get that some people like the curve.
The problem with reviews is they often only have the sets they review for a few days and they really are too busy "reviewing" it to appreciate the benefit of the curve in the sweet spot. It's much easier to be hip and just bash on something because it's cool, or it's just the consensus.

The way I found out I liked the curve was after watching it for a few weeks, and not bothering with any of my flat panels or projector screen. I finally got "over" the OLED and started watching my projector, and flat panels again, and I noticed that they looked "wrong" to me. The picture looked flatter, and the center seemed to be bowing outward! It's kinda crazy how your brain adapts to things. Flat TV's and projections screens now seem to push to image "out" of the screen, while the curved Tv's look more natural to me, with a lot more depth.

Also, had some older people at my place today and they automatically started bashing the curve right in front of me. LOL. At first they were sitting on the side couch and they really didn't like it, and I actually agreed with them that the curve sucks from the side and detracts from the picture. I then sat them in the sweet spot, and they were amazed by the picture. I said nothing to them, and didn't give them any of my opinions, and I asked what they thought of the curve after watching some clips for 15 minutes. The first thing the guy said was that it was like being their, and the image felt much more 3D.

The problem with watching it at store is that you can't really just get eye level and sit, relax and enjoy.

Anyway, I hope the negativity doesn't end up killing the curved Tv's in the future. Seems that in Europe curved TV's are very popular, and hopefully the Chinese like them as well.
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post #131 of 133 Old 10-15-2015, 07:55 PM
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I didn't like the curve at first but wanted an OLED so wasn't left with much choice. Got the LG 55EC9300. I barely notice it anymore but if I got the chance I would still get a flat OLED. Something seems a bit off when watching it on an angle compared to flat HDTVs.
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post #132 of 133 Old 10-16-2015, 06:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Excellent user report, thanks Conan.
Yes. BTW Conan was also instrumental in raising awareness to the notion that the OLED's response time (GtG for LCD's) is what makes or breaks motion handling for some people. He's also pointed out that some actually see devices with higher motion resolution (as currently calculated) as having lower motion handling. This has the direct implication that the calculations we're using for motion resolution as a metric for motion handling just might be flawed. Too many people see this for it to be discounted.

This is counter to pursuit cameras, and all the theories regarding persistence. Note, what made this important isn't in devaluing the importance of lower persistence (it's still critically important and is the bottom line for most of us, myself included, with response time taking a distant distant second). But it's important to keep in mind that observations like that from a non-trivial amount of people strongly indicates that we just don't understand motion handling by the eye well enough yet.
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post #133 of 133 Old 10-16-2015, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just an update. The JS9500 is a very solid motion performer. It's one of the first LCDS that passed all the FPD benchmark tests and no color fringing/smearing! It also passed the full 1080 lines with DFI on and still retained lots of brightness, just some visible flicker which may be a deal breaker for some. I have no hesitation giving the js9500, the conan seal of approval for motion. Most of the current vizio I checked out had horrible motion and with the Sonys I also observed poor motion perfermance on some models while others were much better. Sony must be using many different panels throughout its lineup.

Also I read about some people complaining about the motion of the js9500 in store but most of that is because the clips they are playing and if u set the motion enhancer too high it creates a weird laggy motion effect that almost looks like blur. Setting the TV to your own settings or clear mode makes motion awesome.
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