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-   -   Am I crazy for liking the curve? (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2129802-am-i-crazy-liking-curve.html)

conan48 09-09-2015 09:03 PM

Am I crazy for liking the curve?
 
Never, ever wanted a curved TV, but forced myself to buy one because I wanted an OLED. I started with the 9800 and now own the 9300, and also just owned a 65JS9500 for almost a month. All these are CURVED TVs. What a load of ****. The curve is a gimmick, it adds nothing to the viewing experience, it distorts the picture, makes reflections look weird, etc, etc.

So then why do I like it so much now after a few years? has my brain been reprogrammed?

Flat looks strange to me now. It's as if the center of the screen is pushing out, the sides seem to narrow and the center is bowing out. The image looks much flatter, and it's harder to focus on the image.

I remember reading that Samsung said the curve makes even 2D images more 3D, but I thought it was a load of crap, but now I think I would agree. Jumping from my OLED to my flat Samsung or Panasonic, makes the image seem more flat, while on the OLED or JS9500 there was an extra sense of depth, almost like 3D without glasses. I found this effect more pronounced on the Samsung, but that might be because it's more curved and has an auto depth enhancer feature.

Anyone else find an extra sense of depth on a curved TV?

I do sit in the "sweet" spot and my average viewing distance is about 6 feet away from the JS9500 and 5.5 from the 55" OLED, dead center.

So, does anyone else agree that they actually like the curve? It took me a while to get used to it, but now it feels natural and the added sense of depth is really awesome.

To all those who say the curve is a "deal breaker", have you spent any length of time watching a curved set? I was making fun of the curve as well when I first saw it, but it's crazy how things can change when you ACTUALLY experience something at home.

As an example, I was disappointed that the new HDR LG OLEDs are flat only, and was relieved to hear that the Panny OLED was curved. WTF :eek:

dhubert27 09-09-2015 09:18 PM

I just got my first OLED installed yesterday and I'm already used to it. I don't know that I necessarily like it more than a flat screen, but I'ver never owned a curved screen before and I love this new set. I was very skeptical about the curve, but mine isn't curved nearly as much as some of the others. It is also my first wall-mounted TV, so that may make a difference too.

UltraBlack 09-09-2015 10:00 PM

A quote of mine from the Panasonic OLED thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraBlack (Post 37126874)
The curve has very big radius, which actually helps the viewer to better focus the objects "inside" the picture, creating very realistic sense of depth. After I spent some quality time with the Panny, the other flat TVs just looked wrong to me, as if their picture is trying to "push" you back, it doesn't have this natural perspective. I think the problems with curved TVs comes form the radius of the curve - if its too small (for example all curved Samsung models), then it really distorts the objects and adds artificial/unnatural depth to the image.
But the curve of this Panny is just right! That's why I'll buy the curved one, even if there is flat version.


Callsign_Vega 09-09-2015 10:26 PM

I highly prefer the curve. Both my home theater screen and now my OLED computer display are curved.

People are naturally resistant to change and like to be dramatic about the anti-curve. The majority of TV's sold in Japan and Europe are now curved from what I've read. It's mainly Americans balking. What a surprise.

Nathan Cardinale 09-09-2015 10:35 PM

I too have the JS9500 and enjoy the curve immensely. I too sit dead center and would agree, especially at 65" (78"/88" might differ), why some wouldnt want the curve in like a family room with wide viewing angles, but when you sit in the right viewing angles, there is an enhanced sense of immersion. Wouldn't trade it for a flat any day.

ray0414 09-09-2015 11:30 PM

Last year best buy had a setup where the curved hu9000 was right above the flat hu8550 playing the exact same demos. I immediately thought that the hu9000 had a 3d look to the picture where's the 8550 did not. Others in the samsung threads had seen the same setup and agreed with my conclusions. Like the above poster said, is it from the "Auto depth enhancer" that the hu9000 has or the panoramic curve? Probably a combination of both.

The off angle does suck. But overall I don't mind it. And since I live alone, I sit dead center with nobody getting upset :)

valvaholic 09-10-2015 12:26 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Yep love the curve.
Love the modern aesthetic.
Love the sense of immersion.
Would love a 65" curve with HDMI 2.0a sold in Canada...
That gonna happen?:confused:

conan48 09-10-2015 06:34 AM

Glad to see that I'm not the only one:)

I find it annoying when so many bash on the curved display, and I can bet most have never even watched one for more than a few minutes at Best Buy.

It's like the people who all HATE on 3D, and never bother to experience it on a proper ghost free display. Or people who hate on VR, without ever having tried it for themselves.

I like to experience something myself and decide if I like it or not, not just try to be hip and bash everything because it's "cool"

conan48 09-10-2015 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valvaholic (Post 37175914)
Yep love the curve.
Love the modern aesthetic.
Love the sense of immersion.
Would love a 65" curve with HDMI 2.0a sold in Canada...
That gonna happen?:confused:

Your talking about OLED?

The 55" 9200 LG is curved and has HDMI 2.0a and comes out next month
The 65" Panny OLED is curved and has HDMI 2.0a and comes out in Nov in Canada. (hopefully)

JoeyBagadonuts 09-10-2015 08:19 AM

I am mostly indifferent on flat vs. curved. To me, it depends on the application on whether or not I would prefer a curved vs. flat display. Ideally, manufacturers would offer the same set just with an option to get it in a flat or curved variety.

ray0414 09-10-2015 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan48 (Post 37178658)
Glad to see that I'm not the only one:)

I find it annoying when so many bash on the curved display, and I can bet most have never even watched one for more than a few minutes at Best Buy.

It's like the people who all HATE on 3D, and never bother to experience it on a proper ghost free display. Or people who hate on VR, without ever having tried it for themselves.

I like to experience something myself and decide if I like it or not, not just try to be hip and bash everything because it's "cool"



Do you still have your js9500?

Word is that the newest firmware update last night may have corrected some blooming. I haven't done the Update yet I'm waiting for the official usa release.

When I got my tv a few weeks ago, the original firmware on the tv had horrendous bloom. After I did the newest firmware it was alot better. Those who bought the tv with those early firmwares I'm afraid some of them may not have waited long enough for future firmware updates to work out the bugs with the dimming zone controllers.

conan48 09-10-2015 12:02 PM

I already returned it. I really believe there was something wrong with the way the dimming was working.

I'll keep checking the owners thread for updates.

I was really getting addicted to the picture. I loved the colours on the js9500. It blew away the colours on my oled 9300.

Also came away beyond impressed with Casanova on amazon in HDR. I think Casanova is the first properly mastered title I've seen in HDR. The tonal range on that show was a huge step up from even bluray.

Gotta decide if the Panna OLED will be worth it.

Ken Ross 09-10-2015 12:23 PM

There is no right or wrong answer. If the curve works for you, then it works. Don't listen to the 'know it alls' who tell you what you should or shouldn't like.

wrxlvr 09-10-2015 12:35 PM

Since my curved TV (55EA9800) is only 55", I don't find it all that immersive at my viewing distance. I do love how modern it looks though. Gets lots of attention from visitors for the curve, and thinness.

ray0414 09-10-2015 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan48 (Post 37188306)
I already returned it. I really believe there was something wrong with the way the dimming was working.

I'll keep checking the owners thread for updates.

I was really getting addicted to the picture. I loved the colours on the js9500. It blew away the colours on my oled 9300.

Also came away beyond impressed with Casanova on amazon in HDR. I think Casanova is the first properly mastered title I've seen in HDR. The tonal range on that show was a huge step up from even bluray.

Gotta decide if the Panna OLED will be worth it.


They recently released transparent in hdr too. The hdr on that show is even more apparent than Casanova, but the plot is kinda meh. The hdr craze is going to really crank up once good content gets rolling.

turnne1 09-10-2015 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray0414 (Post 37175434)

The off angle does suck. But overall I don't mind it. And since I live alone, I sit dead center with nobody getting upset :)

lucky you in that regard
I have two rectangular viewing area with the TV mounted mid one of the long walls
I ..and others sit in different positions around the room

you are fortunate that you are the only one watching and that you are cool with only sitting in one spot

Warren

techtre2003 09-10-2015 01:20 PM

I was in H.H. Gregg a few months back and spent about an hour comparing all the TVs. To me, the curved Samsung had the best picture. When my old plasma finally decides to crap out I definitely won't keep a curved set off my list just because it's curved.

Troy LaMont 09-10-2015 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conan48 (Post 37172994)
Never, ever wanted a curved TV, but forced myself to buy one because I wanted an OLED. I started with the 9800 and now own the 9300, and also just owned a 65JS9500 for almost a month. All these are CURVED TVs. What a load of ****. The curve is a gimmick, it adds nothing to the viewing experience, it distorts the picture, makes reflections look weird, etc, etc.

So then why do I like it so much now after a few years? has my brain been reprogrammed?

Flat looks strange to me now. It's as if the center of the screen is pushing out, the sides seem to narrow and the center is bowing out. The image looks much flatter, and it's harder to focus on the image.

I remember reading that Samsung said the curve makes even 2D images more 3D, but I thought it was a load of crap, but now I think I would agree. Jumping from my OLED to my flat Samsung or Panasonic, makes the image seem more flat, while on the OLED or JS9500 there was an extra sense of depth, almost like 3D without glasses. I found this effect more pronounced on the Samsung, but that might be because it's more curved and has an auto depth enhancer feature.

Anyone else find an extra sense of depth on a curved TV?

I do sit in the "sweet" spot and my average viewing distance is about 6 feet away from the JS9500 and 5.5 from the 55" OLED, dead center.

So, does anyone else agree that they actually like the curve? It took me a while to get used to it, but now it feels natural and the added sense of depth is really awesome.

To all those who say the curve is a "deal breaker", have you spent any length of time watching a curved set? I was making fun of the curve as well when I first saw it, but it's crazy how things can change when you ACTUALLY experience something at home.

As an example, I was disappointed that the new HDR LG OLEDs are flat only, and was relieved to hear that the Panny OLED was curved. WTF :eek:

I LOVE the curve! Forget the naysayers!!

NintendoManiac64 09-10-2015 11:26 PM

I'd like to mention that OP is sitting only 6 feet away from the TV in question, so it's no surprise that a curve can actually work - it's the same reason a curved monitor actually makes sense and why, when using multiple monitors, you want the outside of the side monitors to be angled towards you somewhat.


However, it must still be stated that the human body is very adaptive, and when you become used to one thing, something that is different will seem to have its differences exaggerated - this is the same reason a normal talking volume can startle someone in a silent environment even though the absolute volume would be about the same as it would in a typical conversation. This is also why things like HFR are so polarizing - people that are used to HFR find low framerates jarring while people that are used to low framerates find HFR uncomfortable.

So simply put, people that are used to flat displays should find curved displays to be displeasing while people used to curved displays will find flat screens to be strange - this may include CRTs.


Speaking of CRTs, I don't know about concave curves, but I definitely notice that on a convex curved CRT that the image seems to have a least a little bit more depth than a flatscreen LCD - personally I always assumed this was due to CRT's high static contrast ratio, but I can't say for sure (I don't have a flat Trinitron CRT on hand). I have definitely also noticed that high frame rates seem to have improved depth as well, and as we all should know, CRTs have extremely good motion resolution,

KidHorn 09-11-2015 06:34 AM

When looking straight on, curved is OK. There's not much difference between flat and curved. But when you're at an angle, the curve is bothersome. One side is tilted into view, the other tilted out of view.

I have a wife and 3 kids and occasionally I can get everyone watching a movie together. Some have to sit towards the sides so curved is out for me.

I agree that some hate the curve for irrational reasons similar to the way some hate 3D. No one is forced to buy a curved TV or watch 3D yet somehow the existence of these things bother people. Maybe there's a particular TV they like that only comes curved. OK, a minor inconvenience. Just pick from the myriad of flat TVs available.

I hate beets and cauliflower, but I don't complain that grocery stores sell them.

valvaholic 09-11-2015 07:59 AM

8 Attachment(s)
I like cauliflower and don't mind the beets so much. Just saying.

KidHorn 09-11-2015 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valvaholic (Post 37210090)
I like cauliflower and don't mind the beets so much. Just saying.

How can anyone like cauliflower and beets? They're the worst plants ever invented. It's all farmer marketing. Anyone with an informed palette would instantly know those are terrible vegetables. :)

UltraBlack 09-11-2015 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 (Post 37204458)
So simply put, people that are used to flat displays should find curved displays to be displeasing while people used to curved displays will find flat screens to be strange - this may include CRTs.

It seems there are a lot of exclusions from that "rule". Although I was used to flat displays, I liked the concave screens from the first sight, because the image is more natural.

NintendoManiac64 09-11-2015 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraBlack (Post 37218418)
It seems there are a lot of exclusions from that "rule". Although I was used to flat displays, I liked the concave screens from the first sight, because the image is more natural.

Well I did use the term "should". :p Human minds are not black and white, so it would be unwise to flat-out state that there is only "this or that" with no in-between.

Besides, I would imagine that someone that does not use a TV or monitor much at all may very well find a concave display to not be particularly upsetting compared to someone that spends many hours a day viewing a flat panel.

rogo 09-11-2015 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KidHorn (Post 37208178)

I agree that some hate the curve for irrational reasons similar to the way some hate 3D. No one is forced to buy a curved TV or watch 3D yet somehow the existence of these things bother people. Maybe there's a particular TV they like that only comes curved. OK, a minor inconvenience. Just pick from the myriad of flat TVs available.

I hate beets and cauliflower, but I don't complain that grocery stores sell them.

I hate the curve, and don't buy the beets and cauliflower analogy at all.

No grocery stores are crowding out other veggies to carry ones you don't like.

Curved TVs are crowding out equivalent flat ones, however. You can't buy a top-end Samsung LCD that's flat. You've had few chances to buy a flat OLED until very recently and you still won't have the chance from Panasonic.

And, also, though I'd consider this secondary, the curve irritates me (and others) because it isn't there to make things better; it's there for marketing. For every fan of it -- and you guys should feel 100% free to enjoy it, sincerely -- many of us so no functional benefit but drawbacks (sometimes significant). They curved OLEDs because they could and hoped it would help them stand out at retail in a world where 95% of buyers won't see them as special in a Best Buy.

Samsung then showed you could replicate this edge on LCD but LG was already all in and, besides, it was now used to convey "high end" and almost validated by Samsung.

There is nothing about curving the TV that makes it objectively better -- please watch the Panasonic guy in the video explain how he's come to stop hating it now that he is forced to sell one. It's a gold-colored iPhone in a world where you'd be prohibited (often) from buying black ones.

NintendoManiac64 09-11-2015 12:52 PM

...I just realized something - glasses can make a person's viewpoint into the world more convex-looking (stronger glasses = more convex). I would not be surprised if a concave display could actually end up looking more flat.

Callsign_Vega 09-11-2015 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 37219178)
And, also, though I'd consider this secondary, the curve irritates me (and others) because it isn't there to make things better; it's there for marketing. For every fan of it -- and you guys should feel 100% free to enjoy it, sincerely -- many of us so no functional benefit but drawbacks (sometimes significant). They curved OLEDs because they could and hoped it would help them stand out at retail in a world where 95% of buyers won't see them as special in a Best Buy.

That is the kind of opinion/rhetoric that irritates me. I obviously disagree with you. You assume that just because it's "new", that it's a gimmick solely to sell more TV's. Just like those that think 4K is a "new gimmick", which it clearly is not.

I thoroughly enjoy curved displays and I think they have many benefits. I went out of my way to find a curved display for both my home theater and PC. To insinuate the only reason I did that is because it has a "new/shinny" factor is insulting. I am critical of MANY things and try to be as objective as possible in life.

As a pilot, I know why curved displays are used in most multi-million dollar flight simulators. People go to great lengths to set up curved displays in simulators for immersion. Flat images are ridiculous for such uses. I guarantee you that if time was reset and people were dropped into a world where flat and curved TV's were released at the same time, the curved TV uptake would destroy flat. As has been happening in Japan and Europe. They must all be falling for stupid "marketing" right? :rolleyes:

rogo 09-12-2015 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega (Post 37229274)
That is the kind of opinion/rhetoric that irritates me. I obviously disagree with you. You assume that just because it's "new", that it's a gimmick solely to sell more TV's. Just like those that think 4K is a "new gimmick", which it clearly is not.

Please don't conflate things I didn't say with things I did say. It's really irritating.
Quote:

I thoroughly enjoy curved displays and I think they have many benefits. I went out of my way to find a curved display for both my home theater and PC. To insinuate the only reason I did that is because it has a "new/shinny" factor is insulting.
Again, not something I said. And if you actually sit far enough "inside" that you gain discernible benefit from being inside the curve, well, that is real. But, again, not something I was discussing in any way. (n.b. We discussed this about monitors a long time ago. Nearly anyone who sits with multiple monitors "curves" the setup after a while even if that's done by just angling the two.)
Quote:

As a pilot, I know why curved displays are used in most multi-million dollar flight simulators. People go to great lengths to set up curved displays in simulators for immersion. Flat images are ridiculous for such uses. I guarantee you that if time was reset and people were dropped into a world where flat and curved TV's were released at the same time, the curved TV uptake would destroy flat. As has been happening in Japan and Europe. They must all be falling for stupid "marketing" right? :rolleyes:
Again, you're the only person who called people stupid.

I explained why they came to market. I'm actually correct.

None of that means that flight simulators shouldn't use curved screens nor that giant movie theater screens shouldn't be curved nor that you wouldn't want a curved 35" desktop monitor.

UltraBlack 09-12-2015 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 37234474)
(n.b. We discussed this about monitors a long time ago. Nearly anyone who sits with multiple monitors "curves" the setup after a while even if that's done by just angling the two.)

It seems you forgot the reason why it is so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 37219178)
And, also, though I'd consider this secondary, the curve irritates me (and others) because it isn't there to make things better; it's there for marketing.

Back in the days I've seen many people, who state that time alignment of loudspeaker's drivers doesn't make thing better and it is pure marketing, saying that without any real understanding how ear-brain system works. That's why I'm not surprised to find there are a lot of people who deny the benefits of visual alignment, where all points of a given display are equally distant from the eyes.

For anyone who is interested, make a simple experiment. Take a look at a flat screen displaying high quality image, then make few steps back, then another few steps back. What you will see is there is more pronounced perception of depth of the picture when you are looking from longer distances. That's happening because the difference between center and side of the screen to the eye is significantly less. The closer you look at the flat display, the bigger the difference is and the "flatter" (less perceivable depth) the image is. Gently curving the screen removes that distance error.

ChaosCloud 09-12-2015 08:38 AM

For one viewer sitting in the "sweet spot" a curved display is fine. In some cases advantageous. Consider someone with imperfect visual acuity: if sitting at the centre of the radius they will see the whole length of the screen in equal sharpness, whereas on a flat screen the edges will be more blurred than the centre.

The main problem with the curve for me is the distorted reflections. Not an issue in a dark room, but otherwise are very distracting due to the way they move.

The other problem is the "dimples" visible in these reflections. Since it's physically impossible to perfectly curve the screen, there will always be some dimpling/wavyness to the reflections. This IMO makes the TV look like crap in a lit room. This effect would not be visible if the screen diffused reflections slightly, but all the OLEDs are 100% glossy so far.


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