LG 55EF9500 and 65EF9500 OLED Owners Thread - Page 319 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9541 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 05:49 PM
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Thumbs up My Low Level Black Fix

Firstly, did anyone see the new Hunger Games in theaters? I just saw that in IMAX yesterday and boy did it really make me appreciate the blacks that OLED can achieve and the depth that they provide. Cloudy blacks all over the place in that movie were very distracting - and this is in an obviously very expensive, legit IMAX theater. I will say, as someone else noted, Interstellar in 70mm IMAX did not have this problem (in my pre-OLED ownership viewing experience ), but that's essentially 18K resolution film and my OLED looked just as good as that, except even better at clearly rendering the 35mm shots. Since I was being critical in my viewing yesterday, even the IMAX had some vignetting on the top end of the screen and some noticeable non-uniformity (likely due to the canvas).

Seeing a movie at reference in theaters again after owning this OLED has opened my eyes once more to how great this set is, while also humbling me a bit for the kind of perfection I should be expecting out this consumer grade television set.
______

To recap my issues- On my set (55" 509) I had some very distracting banding in dimly lit scenes and poor near black response when setting brightness properly to not crush any black above reference. I've been running at 49 brightness to mask most of the near black issues - but the banding was still bothering me a lot.

So to fix some of my issues coming out of black, especially to eliminate the banding, without major black crush this is what I have used so far with great results. This is all without a meter but things are looking very good, with very minor notices in skin color fluctuations when actors move from one light source to another, but I think I can get rid of that. It's important to note that my set was visually pushing a lot of green in both the high and low ends, and I'm still crushing a bit of pesky black, but less than before. Also, after giving the Consumer Reports' settings a try for a while, I've grown to enjoy a higher OLED light and contrast than some of you may like. But I'm really enjoying the realism it is providing - to each their own with those settings I'd say.

As others have mentioned, I've found one of the best ways to make sure my set is showing 0 black properly is to display a 0% grey slide, and ensure there is no grey band(s) popping up. (Mine usually shows as a vertical band about 1 foot from the left edge of the screen when at reference black using flashing bars test (54 brightness)). I've also tried this while boosting brightness to reference (54B) or above it, then dropping combinations of 5% IRE colors down or 2point lows, but I kept ending up with the same crush as 49 brightness. I combined this method with viewing trouble scenes in multiple forms of content to find a good middle ground.

Here's what I'm running now.
69 OLED Light
86 Contrast
50 Brightness
Sharp 10 on both
Color 54 (boosted a bit from reference, shoot me)
Tint 0
Warm 2
Gamma 2.4
2 Point
Low
-1 Red
-4 Green
-1 Blue
High
+2 Red
-2 Geen
+2 Blue

Also true motion 1dejudder and 10 deblur. Cinema Smooth on, all other enhancements off.

It's not 100% perfect yet for all shades of colors - but for me it's SOOO much less distracting on the banding front than my set was, even at 49 brightness. It's also pulling more detail out of black but it's not making things cloudy or showing off terrible compression. I'm very happy so far. Figured I'd share as that's what this place is for Just don't go getting your panties in a bunch over my oled light and slight black crush
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post #9542 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 05:54 PM
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Congratulations on your new TV I hope it's a keeper
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post #9543 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post
GUYS!!!
My new 510 came in. I had to rush in here and report.
I just viewed the near black 1 - 5% test. This TV has ZERO vignetting. It shows ZERO black flames on 1%. LG has done something here for sure.
Pics to come..........
Be sure to share your set size (55"/65") and what preset/settings you are using when showing the pics please Oh and firmware version might not be bad idea to share either
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post #9544 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 05:57 PM
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Similar issue with Elite SC-95

Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I honestly don't know what could be going on here. Optical digital audio is a straight bitstream with no way to "communicate" or sync, and if a 5.1 PCM stream is being sent a processor can't just decode it as two-channel.

It could be that your receiver is for some reason deciding to output the received 5.1 format audio as stereo in which case it may be a matter of changing the decoded audio format on the Pioneer.

You can verify this by checking to see if your Pioneer has a way of displaying what type of audio stream it's receiving.
I have HDMI going from DirecTV mini to the SC-95, then out to the TV. I've had it happen on occasion that when changing channels the sound completely goes out. The only way to restore it is to shut the TV and DirecTV off.

I've also had it where the receiver inexplicably changes between stereo and DolbyDigital as well. It's only happened a few times, but annoying nonetheless.
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post #9545 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
Firstly, did anyone see the new Hunger Games in theaters? I just saw that in IMAX yesterday and boy did it really make me appreciate the blacks that OLED can achieve and the depth that they provide. Cloudy blacks all over the place in that movie were very distracting - and this is in an obviously very expensive, legit IMAX theater. I will say, as someone else noted, Interstellar in 70mm IMAX did not have this problem (in my pre-OLED ownership viewing experience ), but that's essentially 18K resolution film and my OLED looked just as good as that, except even better at clearly rendering the 35mm shots. Since I was being critical in my viewing yesterday, even the IMAX had some vignetting on the top end of the screen and some noticeable non-uniformity (likely due to the canvas).

Seeing a movie at reference in theaters again after owning this OLED has opened my eyes once more to how great this set is, while also humbling me a bit for the kind of perfection I should be expecting out this consumer grade television set.
______

To recap my issues- On my set (55" 509) I had some very distracting banding in dimly lit scenes and poor near black response when setting brightness properly to not crush any black above reference. I've been running at 49 brightness to mask most of the near black issues - but the banding was still bothering me a lot.

So to fix some of my issues coming out of black, especially to eliminate the banding, without major black crush this is what I have used so far with great results. This is all without a meter but things are looking very good, with very minor notices in skin color fluctuations when actors move from one light source to another, but I think I can get rid of that. It's important to note that my set was visually pushing a lot of green in both the high and low ends, and I'm still crushing a bit of pesky black, but less than before. Also, after giving the Consumer Reports' settings a try for a while, I've grown to enjoy a higher OLED light and contrast than some of you may like. But I'm really enjoying the realism it is providing - to each their own with those settings I'd say.

As others have mentioned, I've found one of the best ways to make sure my set is showing 0 black properly is to display a 0% grey slide, and ensure there is no grey band(s) popping up. (Mine usually shows as a vertical band about 1 foot from the left edge of the screen when at reference black using flashing bars test (54 brightness)). I've also tried this while boosting brightness to reference (54B) or above it, then dropping combinations of 5% IRE colors down or 2point lows, but I kept ending up with the same crush as 49 brightness. I combined this method with viewing trouble scenes in multiple forms of content to find a good middle ground.

Here's what I'm running now.
69 OLED Light
86 Contrast
50 Brightness
Sharp 10 on both
Color 54 (boosted a bit from reference, shoot me)
Tint 0
Warm 2
Gamma 2.4
2 Point
Low
-1 Red
-4 Green
-1 Blue
High
+2 Red
-2 Geen
+2 Blue

Also true motion 1dejudder and 10 deblur. Cinema Smooth on, all other enhancements off.

It's not 100% perfect yet for all shades of colors - but for me it's SOOO much less distracting on the banding front than my set was, even at 49 brightness. It's also pulling more detail out of black but it's not making things cloudy or showing off terrible compression. I'm very happy so far. Figured I'd share as that's what this place is for Just don't go getting your panties in a bunch over my oled light and slight black crush

I had your exact same issue with a black screen not being completely black on my 65 inch, when brightness was set correctly. I had to set brightness to 49 like you did to cover the problem. I attacked the WB low settings and lowered both red and blue to -2. First I tried lowering blue to -2. That cleared up it a bit, but not completely. Lowered green, no effect. Then I lowered red to -1, was almost there, with red at -2 being perfect. Since adjusting green had no effect, I left it at zero. That solved my issue with the black screen and coming out of black. So now I can set my brightness back to a normal setting of 52, not clip 18, and have excellent blacks.
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post #9546 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadbob2k2 View Post
I have HDMI going from DirecTV mini to the SC-95, then out to the TV. I've had it happen on occasion that when changing channels the sound completely goes out. The only way to restore it is to shut the TV and DirecTV off.

I've also had it where the receiver inexplicably changes between stereo and DolbyDigital as well. It's only happened a few times, but annoying nonetheless.
Since HDMI does decrypt between source and destination, sync errors and such can occur.

Optical digital out is a one-way data pipe.
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post #9547 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post
GUYS!!!
My new 510 came in. I had to rush in here and report.
I just viewed the near black 1 - 5% test. This TV has ZERO vignetting. It shows ZERO black flames on 1%. LG has done something here for sure.
Pics to come..........
That's good news. You got a keeper. Unfortunately, most of the 510's has some degree of vignetting. My has it 1 to 3%. It still is a panel lottery, and you hit the jackpot!
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post #9548 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Not sure if I thought it was overly compressed or not. Just gave me and my guests a headache lol. Plus, the 3D scenes looked overly "contrived". One of my guests commented that Avatar was better because it was built from the ground up as 3D where as JW looked like it was an add on.
Very little 3D content is shot with 3D cameras; your best bet for 3D content originally designed as such is animation.
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post #9549 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post
GUYS!!!
My new 510 came in. I had to rush in here and report.
I just viewed the near black 1 - 5% test. This TV has ZERO vignetting. It shows ZERO black flames on 1%. LG has done something here for sure.
Pics to come..........

How's uniformity on 100% white screen?

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post #9550 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webminster View Post
I'm at a total loss what to do with my set, due to the motion issues. Like a few have said, I see the hiccups in the video, principally on cable network such as CBS or NBC shows, like the CPU or DSP misses frames. I've not found any combination of TruMotion settings to fix it, and since the signal coming into the TV is 1080p, I can't manually disable RealCinema.

If I go to PC input mode and set black level high, it feels better. But occasionally I turn the TV on and blacks are all grey, like it forget to establish the PC levels... usually a power cycle fixes that, but has bad WAF (and self AF).

This was on the 20.07 firmware, and also on the .50 firmware (took a chance and upgraded to it, now regret it). Have no idea where to go next.
The issue with this tv, and other 4K tv's I have seen, is they have a hard time perfectly converting to 4K. Not only do they have to convert 1080i30 and 720p60 to 4K, some commercials and tv shows on these networks are 1080p24. It can handle live sports with ease because 30 frames and 60 frames are easily converted to 4K as the tv is 120hz. So those have a perfect 4:4 and 2:2 pulldown. Very little judder. Unfortunately, for tv shows on 1080i/720p, networks are trying to convert 1080p24 to 30 and 60 frames, and then your tv is trying to convert that to 4K. Now you have a weird pulldown conversion, and you end up with judder. With 1080p tv's it wasn't as noticeable, but with 4K, any flaw gets magnified.
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Last edited by wxman; 11-30-2015 at 06:20 PM.
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post #9551 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
Your "blob" is probably washing out the picture because it's screwing up the white balance, it likely is making your entire set push yellow and covers more of the screen than you initially thought. The blob/yellow band generally disappears off angle, so would explain why you feel your TV looks fine when viewed off angle.

That entire issue seemed related to the filter applied in front of the screen, so I am assuming whoever/whatever applied it to your set did a very poor job.

thanks that makes a lot of sense. contrast is nowhere near mind blowing head on compared to side angles.. going to have to call LG VIP
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post #9552 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake2163 View Post
Awesome ! I did talk to Robert @ lg earlier today and he said they had a fix for it as I have to have my panel replaced but thought he was just feeding me more s*** maybe they have done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
Be sure to share your set size (55"/65") and what preset/settings you are using when showing the pics please Oh and firmware version might not be bad idea to share either

65"
I was showing AVCDHD file from USB.
4.20.10
Cinema
I don't remember changing any settings. Let me know what to set OLED light, Contrast and Brightness and I will run it and take pictures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs47 View Post
How's uniformity on 100% white screen?
Good, I see a slightly warmer center (not a band). It is only visible on a 100% white screen if you pause and stare. I tried so hard to see it in content and I can't.
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post #9553 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post
65"
I was showing AVCDHD file from USB.
4.20.10
Cinema
I don't remember changing any settings. Let me know what to set OLED light, Contrast and Brightness and I will run it and take pictures.



Good, I see a slightly warmer center (not a band). It is only visible on a 100% white screen if you pause and stare. I tried so hard to see it in content and I can't.
Here are the settings I use to check for Vignette:

Expert1
Brightness 54
Contrast 95
OLED Light 30
Gamma 2.4

You will only be able to see the vignette on these setting (and the near-black 1%-3% greyscale) if viewing in a pitch-black room (no lights on).

Here is what my 5% vignette looks like with those settings:
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post #9554 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx74ray View Post
GUYS!!!
My new 510 came in. I had to rush in here and report.
I just viewed the near black 1 - 5% test. This TV has ZERO vignetting. It shows ZERO black flames on 1%. LG has done something here for sure.
Pics to come..........
What's the exact build date? Is it a late 510?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Here are the settings I use to check for Vignette:

Expert1
Brightness 54
Contrast 95
OLED Light 30
Gamma 2.4

You will only be able to see the vignette on these setting (and the near-black 1%-3% greyscale) if viewing in a pitch-black room (no lights on).

Here is what my 5% vignette looks like with those settings:
I'd suggest anyone annoyed by ABL or Vignette try the following:

- Set your contrast low: 64 is a good starting point, and is what I currently use. Infinite contrast is infinite contrast, you aren't going to tell the difference as long as you compensation for luminance loss... It's hard to believe, but trust me and judge for yourself.
- Set your OLED light higher to compensate. I use 50 OLED light with 64 contrast in a pitch black room. In a normal room you'll likely need to go with 60-70 or even higher. Just keep increasing until it doesn't look dull anymore.

Check your 5% slide again, and you should see a dramatic improvement. This also will completely eliminate ABL dimming down the picture in bright scenes, bringing life to many scenes that ABL tends to make dull. Chad B said he calibrated his last EF9500 to 50 contrast and 100 OLED light, I personally don't feel comfortable running max OLED light but it proves there seems to be basically no drawbacks to doing this in extremes.

I went from having 2 inches of vignette at 5% to none at 4% and 2 inches at 1%-3%.

Last edited by Tyrindor; 11-30-2015 at 07:05 PM.
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post #9555 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
What's the exact build date? Is it a late 510?
I wouldn't get too excited. The 511's in Europe still have vignetting.
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post #9556 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 07:01 PM
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I watched the Jurrasic World 3D trailer through the 3DGO app, and umm... yeah, 3D should be dropped imo... gave me a headache and its pretty useless. Showed the JW trailer to a few people and they all said the same thing. I've packed away the glasses.
Don't jump to conclusions. View the actual 3D Blu Ray disc of Jurrasic World and then tell us if LG should drop 3D.

I have the 3D Blu Ray disc, didn't care much for the movie but the 3D effect was imho amazing. Clarity and depth are the best I have ever seen. Out of the box setting once more are good, I forgot if I dropped the contrast but I think I did.

ss
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post #9557 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I wouldn't get too excited. The 511's in Europe still have vignetting.
We can still hope that some plants fixed the issue before others... right?

I know, probably too good to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Don't jump to conclusions. View the actual 3D Blu Ray disc of Jurrasic World and then tell us if LG should drop 3D.

I have the 3D Blu Ray disc, didn't care much for the movie but the 3D effect was imho amazing. Clarity and depth are the best I have ever seen. Out of the box setting once more are good, I forgot if I dropped the contrast but I think I did.

ss
Agreed. 3D Bluray is breathtaking and an incredible experience. I've actually had multiple friends claim 3D is a gimmick, gives them headaches, looks terrible, yada yada we've all heard it. Every single one of them that saw 3D on the EF9500 immediately ate their words.

For the record, 3D in the theater is terrible and any 3D that isn't on an actual BD disc (or ISO file) is going to be subpar. Buy an actual 3D Bluray movie.
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Last edited by Tyrindor; 11-30-2015 at 07:13 PM.
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post #9558 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I wouldn't get too excited. The 511's in Europe still have vignetting.
yeah, I doubt there will ever be an across the board fix, if there is it will be in next years model. These consumer electronics companies cannot afford to just pour r&d money into already released products, once the hardware hits the market its done.

Hard to accept but having been an AV enthusiast for a long time this is how I see it.

All that said, some of these things are surely coming out of the factory perfect, law of averages and all
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post #9559 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 07:54 PM
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yeah it's pretty awful.

Whats you build date? 510?
509
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post #9560 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 08:41 PM
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Yes, but that's not quite accurate. The video is coming from the TV itself, never hitting the receiver. The audio is going from the TV to the receiver. If you have ARC enabled, the receiver will automatically switch to its TV input, which will give you the LG App's audio while you watch it on TV. Unfortunately, once you're done with that content, you have to manually switch the receiver back to your standard TV-watching input (e.g., cable/std, in my case).

We'll I tried just Optical and just HDMI ARC and now I get no sound at all from the TV to the receiver. The receiver still works but either the TV isn't sending sound to the receiver or the receiver isn't reading it. I'm so aggravated.
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post #9561 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatisimo View Post
Yes, but that's not quite accurate. The video is coming from the TV itself, never hitting the receiver. The audio is going from the TV to the receiver. If you have ARC enabled, the receiver will automatically switch to its TV input, which will give you the LG App's audio while you watch it on TV. Unfortunately, once you're done with that content, you have to manually switch the receiver back to your standard TV-watching input (e.g., cable/std, in my case).

We'll I tried just Optical and just HDMI ARC and now I get no sound at all from the TV to the receiver. The receiver still works but either the TV isn't sending sound to the receiver or the receiver isn't reading it. I'm so aggravated.
It's set to Audio Out (Optical/HDMI ARC)?
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post #9562 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Vignetting? Color stains? None here.

Black crush/noise? Sure, a little, but what I do know is I haven't seen White Christmas look this good since I saw it in a theater.
Great movie AND it looks great! I think I might order that on Blu-ray so I can see it look that good.
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post #9563 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 10:01 PM
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Upscaling 4k bluray player or not?

Ok, another basic question. Have any of you guys/gals tested regular 1080p bluray that the EF9500 upscales on its on in comparison to a bluray player that does the upscaling, first? I'm trying to figure out whether I should get another bluray player (none of the ones I have upscales--I'll also have an upscaling receiver--Denon x4000).
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post #9564 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
Ok, another basic question. Have any of you guys/gals tested regular 1080p bluray that the EF9500 upscales on its on in comparison to a bluray player that does the upscaling, first? I'm trying to figure out whether I should get another bluray player (none of the ones I have upscales--I'll also have an upscaling receiver--Denon x4000).
I have the X4200 and I can tell you that its 4K scaling is complete garbage. I posted side by side pics of the same exact frame letting the X4200 scale it vs. letting the EF9500 scale it and the TV does a way better job. The X4200 pretty much ruins the picture.

Don't waste your $$$ on a BluRay player at this point in the game. 4K UltraHD BluRay is around the corner (probably CES).
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post #9565 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 10:48 PM
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once the hardware hits the market its done.
Yup. My experience too. When you purchase PC or A/V gear, you should purchase "as is". Very rarely, if ever, does a company fix or enhance a product after its out.

I had a Panasonic Plasma with the expandable blades. TV came with a DVI board. Panasonic promised us a HDMI board. Never came... until the next model year and was not compatible with mine.

AVR mfgrs have been promising us free firmware DTS:X upgrades for the 2015 AVRs. They are already 3 months late. I would not be surprised if they don't deliver or require a hardware change that costs lots of $$$ or something like that.

Someone on this thread claimed DirecTV RVU support was coming... still haven't seen it LOL...

and on and on...
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post #9566 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 10:57 PM
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Can anyone recommend what settings I should use with my camera, a Canon Powershot s90, for taking pictures of this TV in a dark room? By which I mean ISO, F stop & shutter speed?

LG 65EF9500 OLED (511)
HTPC- Titan Black Intel Core i7 3930
Denon AVR-X2300W Channel Full 4K Ultra HD AV Receiver
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post #9567 of 24645 Old 11-30-2015, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HTNUT1975 View Post
Ok, another basic question. Have any of you guys/gals tested regular 1080p bluray that the EF9500 upscales on its on in comparison to a bluray player that does the upscaling, first? I'm trying to figure out whether I should get another bluray player (none of the ones I have upscales--I'll also have an upscaling receiver--Denon x4000).
Yep - I have an Oppo 105 and the picture is pretty much identical in both modes.

I decided to set things to have the Oppo upscale for now and I am watching for artifacts, but if someone snuck in and set my Oppo back to 1080p I doubt I'd ever notice.

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Great movie AND it looks great! I think I might order that on Blu-ray so I can see it look that good.
It looks completely spectacular on BD.

If you weren't aware, White Christmas was shot in VistaVision, meaning the 35mm negative went through the camera horizontally rather than vertically, substantially improving resolution.
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Last edited by kucharsk; 11-30-2015 at 11:05 PM.
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post #9568 of 24645 Old 12-01-2015, 01:20 AM
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Talked to an lg rep at Best Buy for like an hour about this tv. He showed me what BB pays for this set....only 3200$ so that's a pretty good margin. Prices will drop to 4K or less after holidays just pe patient . I'm probably will just wait for the new 2016 models that from rumors are going to blow these 2015 models out the water for the same 5k price.
I am shocked an LG rep told you what BB paid for these.
I am NOT shocked an LG rep told you next years model will blow this years out of the water.

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post #9569 of 24645 Old 12-01-2015, 03:58 AM
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Looks like I won't be getting my replacement on the 3rd, it's now the 23rd.

So 3 1/2 week wait on the 65". The 55" is so far backordered that the BB site claims "product not available" if you add to cart, and the local BB store ended up giving my friend with the 55" a refund because "there's no ETA on when they'll be able to order more".

There can't be a lot of demand for $3-$5K TVs, and OLED isn't exactly well known among general consumers to be significantly better. Most consumers would go with a cheaper/larger LED set. The only reason I can see these things being out of stock is due to exchanges and high return rates. Shame so few of these sets are keepers.

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post #9570 of 24645 Old 12-01-2015, 04:49 AM
 
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GUYS!!!
My new 510 came in. I had to rush in here and report.
I just viewed the near black 1 - 5% test. This TV has ZERO vignetting. It shows ZERO black flames on 1%. LG has done something here for sure.
Pics to come..........
No one should jump to any conclusions. I have a funny feeling your set has vignetting. Lets see some pics.
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