LG 4K 65" 3D Problems still there - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 10-02-2015, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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LG 4K 65" 3D Problems still there

I do 3D since I was 15 year old.

As I am now 53 years old I learn a lot about 3D long time before 3D was a hype.

Few years ago I have purchase two Barco B32 Pr. a 4K professional 3chip DLP pr. that I put in my basement.
See also the posts here at AVS: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/185-d-cinema-equipment-theaters/1346057-world-premiere-4k-3d-dlp-passive-stack.html

I have Samsung 4K 3D TVs in my house and it was very nice to see with them or with my two big 4K DLPs my 4K 3D still Pictures in full native 4K 3D.

The Samsung can take it via USB and in the MPO format and display it in 4K3D with shutter.

Since may 2015 I own a LG 4K 65" OLED and I have to say this TV had beside some small shading and uniformity issue in the center of the picture the by far best picture I ever saw.

Very nice that this display can also take 4K 3D pictures in MPO and display it .

Of course the vertically resolution go down from 2160 to 1080 because of the passive polarizer glasses but horizontal resolution was still 3840 so I see when you count double the full HD resolution 4mp.

As the horizontal resolution is more important to our eye than the vertically resolution it was not a huge difference when I compare 4K 3D pictures to the Samsung that can display it in 4K 3D at“”full 4K resolution””.

Because of you have to sit anyway about 1.3 or better 1.5 times the picture wide back in distance to not see the lines there was not any big visible difference visible when you compare for sample the Samsung 4k TV that can show it in full 4K 3D so 8mp.

A big advantage from the polarizer 3D system is that you see both the right and the left picture at the SAME TIME at the screen!

This is nice as motion in 3D BDs looks far better compare with shutter as they show left and right NOT at the same time.

In still pictures it make of course not any problem.


I not like to talk now much more about theadvantage the OLED have over other LED 4K TVs but I like to talk about a 3D bug that was there and how LG Germany respond to it.

After I feed the first 4K MPO 3D pictures via USBI found out that
some pictures show stair step bugs and that surprise me as the detail enhancement and all other enhancements are all set to 0 or off!
Also not any Blue Ray 3D not show this bug.

One more 3D bug I found.
When I playback record material from my Sony 3DCam in the “framepacking for interlace Format 1920x1080 60i 3d" feed to the LG via HDMI the LG know this signal and switch to 3D and show this perfect.

This was different when I feed this files record from the same Sony 3D Cam via USB!
Than the LG not show any 3D and even manual you just can only select 2 to 3D conversion or side by side 3D or top down3D but all this are wrong and you not see a right picture in 3D.

I contact LG in Germany and found a very good knowing technician.
I send him many mails with 3D 4K MPO pictures so that he can see this bugs easy.
I explain everything on the phone in long calls and with mails but he not get back to me at all.
After I remind him by resending this mails and ask via phone several times again. All this not helps.

Since now over 5 months later I hear nothing from him beside some 1 or 2 mails where he say it take more time because of this or that.

I yesterday put the newest software on and try it one more time but nothing have change.
The 2 bugs are still there!

I know that not much people have 4K 3D Pictures and use the 4K OLED from LG to display it but I am very upset about the bad service LG had in Germany for such a “Premium TV”!


LG should be happy that someone help them to make their products better than it was but looks like no one is interested to improve this product.
Sad as many 3D people will like for sure how the LG 4K OLED can display 3D in general.
People form the DGS (Germany 3D Club) ask me many times about if they should buy this TV but as this bug are not solved I can say buy it!
I know now in person why LG had a so bad reputation about service in Germany.
Very sad as well is that there is not any much bigger 4K OLED beside the 77” that had some problems with some 3D I like to use.
The 65” can do it the bigger one not!


I can’t wait to buy a 100" 8K version of it hopefully soon that not have any bugs when I feed 8K 3D pictures.


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post #2 of 33 Old 10-04-2015, 11:53 AM
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W Mayer,
Thank you VERY MUCH! for your detailed post regarding your 4k 3D setups. I share your passion for technology, and 3D (2K and 4K).

I'm most concerned about the poor response you have received from LG regarding apparently bone fide technical glitches. You have high priced pieces of equipment, and I think you let LG off TOO easy saying, "while most people are not using 4K 3D... (SIC)". This is changing. As prices fall on higher resolution equipment, the higher end systems, penetrate the mass market.

When you pay a high price for 'cutting edge' technology, the manufacturer has a distinct obligation to fix/remedy the REAL flaws in their work. LG's failure to respond the problems you relate, may indicate that this one technician is the stalling point. But I suspect that it is a bigger problem in LG than that.

His delaying comments to you seem to me to be perfuntory efforts just to stall you and hope you'll lose interest, but perhaps his "higher ups" are the REAL problem. I wonder if they are non technical 'administrators', that don't have a clue about the products they sell. Regrettably, the technical guy probably fully understands the significance of the problem you describe, but due to his 'technical nature', (lack of personal communication skill?) cannot communicate the severity of the issue, with the "non techs" that control both his budget, and work direction. This is a common sign of a company that has lost it's way. The sales force overwhelms the product design. Too bad for LG.

I also have extensive 3D systems (+/- $140k invested) and tend to be an early purchaser (on the "bleeding edge"). I also speak to many people likely disposed to purchase the first wave equipment. LG should re-consider their apathy.

My google search for info on my contemplated purchase of this LG OLED brought me to your (informative) post. Thanks, you saved me from a purchase I know I'd regret.

I'll buy a product that still has some minor tech problems, and be patient while they work out the fixes, but I won't buy products where the manufacturer "buries their head in the sand", and leaves me holding the bag ($) for their design flaws, and mistakes.

Thank you for saving me some real money. Please amend this post, 'IF' LG ever responds to your concerns, as that might put LG products back on my potential vendor list.


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post #3 of 33 Old 10-05-2015, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Washington AV

It was a big surprise to read your post.

I was not thinking that someone from US using 4K3D pictures and process them in MPO and read at AVS.

your part:

"Regrettably, the technical guy probablyfully understands the significance of the problem you describe, but due to his'technical nature', (lack of personal communication skill?) cannot communicatethe severity of the issue, with the "non techs" that control both hisbudget, and work direction"

hit the nail.


Sad that this is often the reality but i have hopethat in future the company’s that often read what we
post here in this forum will hopefully take actionabout it.
That’s the reason why I made this post here.

I agree with you that in few years more people willwatch 4K3D not only in still pictures also in movies.

Btw. People ask me in the past 2 years often what I think about 8k.
I always say that there is no need for 8k as no one like to sit that close to the screen you have to sit "to see the 8k Resolution".
For the same reason the upcoming 4K Blue Ray will offer beside the 4 time more resolution HDR HFR Rec. 2020 Color and so on.

The beauty about 8k in 2d is that you can easymade 4k in 3d with it!

The resolution advantage from 4k to 8k is verylittle in normally viewing distances but to go from 2D to 3D it make a big impact
“if the 3D system” offers a perfect 3D.
OLED can do it.


Please read my pm I will send to you.
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post #4 of 33 Old 10-05-2015, 06:15 AM
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That’s too bad I planned to use this 65” 4K OLED to display 4K 3D images with MPO Pictures but from your report looks like it’s not a good idea, no way I will purchase it now. How is 3D when you feed it a USB 4K side by side or Top/bottom picture ?

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post #5 of 33 Old 10-06-2015, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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It is strange .....top down or side by side 3d in 4k was showing this bug also "but" less visible compare to the 4k 3d MPO Pictures!
So far onyl 3D Blue Ray not show this bug at all.
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post #6 of 33 Old 10-07-2015, 08:21 AM
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Wolfgang, thanks for the first hand and very detailed report, people who are heavily invested in 3D should take note.

Goes to show that sadly one has to be very careful checking for these things and with special stuff like this it is better to try beforehand than to believe any manufacturer claims that "it should work" when probably nobody ever tested it before. Judging by what you say it seems unlikely that things will change with your LG so you will have to wait for the next model to maybe include this functionality.
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post #7 of 33 Old 10-09-2015, 02:37 AM
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I have ask a Dealer that sale this 4K OLED from LG if this unit can display MPO 3D 4K Pictures but he don’t know.
As all the dealers that have this unit are far away from me I cannot check it myself.

So I google and found this tread.

Good to hear that in general the TV can handle and display it like I want but very sad to hear about the bug.
Let me know when LG solve this bug as I than will order likely one of this OLED.
I shot a lot of macro 3D Pictures in 4K and I like to see it without this bug you describe.
I think the LG OLED is beside this bug a perfect 3D Display.

It will be nice if you can post a picture from the bug.
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post #9 of 33 Old 10-10-2015, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Alan to hosting the pictures for me!


I hope people can see it as the resolutionwas not the best.


I process this picture today one more time to makesure it was not a 3D processing issue but as you can see between picturenumber 2 and 3 the bug is NOT coming from the 3D processing it comes from the
LG OLED.
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post #10 of 33 Old 10-11-2015, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
Thank you Alan to hosting the pictures for me!


I hope people can see it as the resolutionwas not the best.


I process this picture today one more time to makesure it was not a 3D processing issue but as you can see between picturenumber 2 and 3 the bug is NOT coming from the 3D processing it comes from the
LG OLED.

This is ridiculous! Seems LG has no interest in customer care at all.
I am no 3D user, but I had this OLED on my shortlist. After this wake-up call it's clearly better to stay away from that brand.

Thanks to W. Mayer for the detailed and very useful information!
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post #11 of 33 Old 10-11-2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
Thank you Alan to hosting the pictures for me!


I hope people can see it as the resolutionwas not the best.


I process this picture today one more time to makesure it was not a 3D processing issue but as you can see between picturenumber 2 and 3 the bug is NOT coming from the 3D processing it comes from the
LG OLED.
Nasty stairstepping on the last picture!
Have you checked if the same artefact is visible with 3D Blu-ray?
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post #12 of 33 Old 10-11-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
Nasty stairstepping on the last picture!
Have you checked if the same artefact is visible with 3D Blu-ray?
Thanks to W. Mayer for the very informative post.

For those of us relative Luddites when it comes to 3D technology, could someone help translate this 3D bug with LG 4K OLEDs into laynmans terms?

In terms of 'perfect' passive 3D on a 1080p display, does the passive 3D on the 4K LG OLED displays at least match that same level of resolution/quality or is it worse in some way?

Whatever this bug is on the LG passive 3D on 4K displays, does anyone know whether it also exists on LG 4K LED/LCD displays or only on 4K OLEDs?

3D is not a very high priority for me, but I have a small library of 3D Blurays and I absolutely agree that, for the price of these 4K OLEDs, not quickly correcting fixable bugs is inexcusable.

Here in the US, Robert Zohn of Value Electronics seems to have LG's ear back on Korea. Especially if testing of proper rendering of 3D is included in the criteria he will be testing in his Shootout early next year, I suspect his being made aware of this 3D bug and how to recreate it would likely result in it's being quickly moved up the bug fix priority queue at LG...
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post #13 of 33 Old 10-12-2015, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
Nasty stairstepping on the last picture!
Have you checked if the same artefact is visible with 3D Blu-ray?
The 3D Blue Ray Picture if you sit in the right angle is the best 3D Picture of a Display i ever saw.
I watch a lot of 3D Blue Rays but not one single one I can remember show this Kind of bug.
Also a bit strange is when i process the same 3d Picture that i post in Top Down 3D it looks better means the bug is than "less" visible but not gone!


If I have time I will try to shot a Picture from a 3D BD true the polarizer that had also some fine line or structure in the same angle on.
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post #14 of 33 Old 10-12-2015, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

For those of us relative Luddites when it comes to3D technology, could someone help translate this 3D bug with LG 4K OLEDs intolaynmans terms?

In terms of 'perfect' passive 3D on a 1080pdisplay, does the passive 3D on the 4K LG OLED displays at least match thatsame level of resolution/quality or is it worse in some way?

Whatever this bug is on the LG passive 3D on 4Kdisplays, does anyone know whether it also exists on LG 4K LED/LCD displays oronly on 4K OLEDs?

3D is not a very high priority for me, but I havea small library of 3D Blurays and I absolutely agree that, for the price ofthese 4K OLEDs, not quickly correcting fixable bugs is inexcusable.

Here in the US, Robert Zohn of Value Electronicsseems to have LG's ear back on Korea. Especially if testing of proper renderingof 3D is included in the criteria he will be testing in his Shootout early nextyear, I suspect his being made aware of this 3D bug and how to recreate itwould likely result in it's being quickly moved up the bug fix priority queueat LG...
fafrd
So far i know is that the vertical resolution is max. 1080 and horizontal resolution can be 3840.
At least this is what I can see from the MOP pictures made and process in 4K 3D.
So this TV show from a 4k3d Picture 100% horizontal resolution 3840 pixels but half vertical resolution1080 pixels or lines.
So it can show about 4 mp double what full hd can deliver in 3D if you have the right source material.

If LG LCD show the same bug ist a good question but i doubt there this bug is not there as well.

Lets hope that LG will fix it.
It is a shame to have the best 3D display on the market and people like me with like to feed 4K 3D pictures have to live with this bug.

I get a mail from Mr. Peschke he is one very well known guy from Germany shot 3D movies since very long time.
The Holiwood Reporter Magazin from US called him the 3D brain from germany in a report some years ago.
He read this post here and contact me and say that he was very cose to order this model but now as he hear about this bug he will notbuy it.
He is also one that like to feed 4k 3d MPO pictures!
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post #15 of 33 Old 10-12-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
QUOTE]

fafrd
So far i know is that the vertical resolution is max. 1080 and horizontal resolution can be 3840.
At least this is what I can see from the MOP pictures made and process in 4K 3D.
So this TV show from a 4k3d Picture 100% horizontal resolution 3840 pixels but half vertical resolution1080 pixels or lines.
So it can show about 4 mp double what full hd can deliver in 3D if you have the right source material.

If LG LCD show the same bug ist a good question but i doubt there this bug is not there as well.

Lets hope that LG will fix it.
It is a shame to have the best 3D display on the market and people like me with like to feed 4K 3D pictures have to live with this bug.

I get a mail from Mr. Peschke he is one very well known guy from Germany shot 3D movies since very long time.
The Holiwood Reporter Magazin from US called him the 3D brain from germany in a report some years ago.
He read this post here and contact me and say that he was very cose to order this model but now as he hear about this bug he will notbuy it.
He is also one that like to feed 4k 3d MPO pictures!
Can you please explain what this bug does in simple terms?

With this bug, will the 3D on the 65EF9500 be inferior to the 3D on a passive 1080p 3D TV (540x1920 per eye)?

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post #16 of 33 Old 10-14-2015, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Can you please explain what this bug does in simple terms?
Hi fafrd,


I think W.Mayer wrote it in "simple terms"!? Also look at the pictures once more...

Cineastic greetings

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post #17 of 33 Old 10-14-2015, 08:52 AM
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Hi fafrd,


I think W.Mayer wrote it in "simple terms"!? Also look at the pictures once more...
I suppose I am more of a simpleton when it comes to 3D than the rest of you.

I was just looking for confirmation that the 'staircase' bug he refers to amounts to having 540 lines of effective vertical resolution (so the same 3D passive image you would get off of a 1080p 3D TV, at least as far as the vertical resolution).

Would be great if someone could check an LG 4K LED/LCD to see if these same bugs exist there as well...
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post #18 of 33 Old 10-14-2015, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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next week i will go to see a LG 4K LCD and check if this bug was there as well or less visible and report here.
this will be good to know but not helpull as it not fix the bug my 65" OLED have!
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post #19 of 33 Old 10-14-2015, 06:38 PM
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next week i will go to see a LG 4K LCD and check if this bug was there as well or less visible and report here.
this will be good to know but not helpull as it not fix the bug my 65" OLED have!
From the newly-released Cnet review: http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-ef9500/2/

"3D: Somehow, the EF9500 performed much better in my 3D tests than the EG9600. In fact, it provided probably the best 3D image I've ever seen. That's due to its combination of 4K resolution and passive 3D, which eliminates the resolution loss inherent in passive 3D with a 1080p screen, and provides all the benefits of passive over active (including a brighter image, less crosstalk and of course simpler glasses you don't need to turn on and pair).

When I tested 3D on the EG9600, I noticed it was finicky in terms of where I was seated. If I was too close, or my viewing angle too far above or below the dead center of the screen, I saw lots of crosstalk -- that ghostly double image that's the bugaboo of stereoscopic 3D.

With the EF9500, that problem is largely gone. My first viewing test was the "GK films" logo from the beginning of "Hugo," which consists of bright letters against a black background and plenty of depth. On the EF9500 I didn't see any crosstalk from my standard seating distance of 8 feet; in fact, I didn't see any until I almost had my nose to the screen, at about 3 feet. The image was also very tolerant of vertical and horizontal viewing angle; I had to move pretty far above or below the screen before the crosstalk reappeared.

I'm not sure why I saw this difference between the two OLED TVs. Perhaps the EG9600's curve somehow makes the TV more susceptible to crosstalk, but that seems unlikely since the 55EC9300 showed just as little crosstalk as the 55EC9300. Maybe LG made some change to how its TVs handle 3D. Unfortunately, I didn't have the EG9600 review sample on-hand anymore to conduct further tests.

Compared to the other 3D-capable sets in my lineup, the EF9500 looked the best. It showed less crosstalk than any of them, including LG's own passive 4K LED LCD, the UF9500. The exception was the 55-inch EC9300 OLED, as I mentioned, but of course it showed the line structure and jaggies inherent in 1080p passive 3D.

Other aspects of 3D picture quality on the EF9500 were superb. Its passive 3D allows its brightness to shine through for greater pop (especially against that perfect black backdrop) than the active-3D-equipped LCDs. Colors looked excellent as well. As usual I appreciated the lighter passive glasses, and found them more comfortable compared to the active versions found on the other TVs."
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post #20 of 33 Old 10-15-2015, 02:02 PM
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I suppose I am more of a simpleton when it comes to 3D than the rest of you.

I was just looking for confirmation that the 'staircase' bug he refers to amounts to having 540 lines of effective vertical resolution (so the same 3D passive image you would get off of a 1080p 3D TV, at least as far as the vertical resolution).

Would be great if someone could check an LG 4K LED/LCD to see if these same bugs exist there as well...
I take it you are interested in 3D Blu-rays?
These look very good and they are displayed with full resolution.

Wolfgang also thinks they look excellent, but he isn't happy with the performance with 4k MPO 3D pictures which is disappointing.
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post #21 of 33 Old 10-15-2015, 05:13 PM
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Unfortunately the CNET review indicating he is not seeing ghosting does not apply to all of us. My current set is very sensitive to height or I will see ghosting. Others have as well. Me head has to be above the center of the screen not to see ghosting at the top. So not all panels are created equal. SInce I plan on getting a new one to fix the yellow banding I hope I get one with more vertical tolerance
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Is this just a repost of the earlier pics? Explanation?
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post #24 of 33 Old 10-16-2015, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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no it was not a older just give me some time.....

Hi Alan

Thank you to post the 2 pictures i am still too stupid to do it.

Both pictures show a 4K 3D Image in MPO the same as use in post number 8.
Both pictures was made with a polarizer glasses in front of the camera.

The first picture show the 4K LG OLED the secound the 4K LG LCD.
You can clear see how much wore the OLED was compare to the LED.
It was a bug from the OLED as both displays have the same resolution and the same 3D System and same way to do this pictures.

Thanks to the guy from the shop in Munich Germany to shot this pictures today for me.
I will possible go to Munich next week with my professional camera and try to shot a even better picture.

It is 100% clear now that this was a bug from the 4K LG OLED and LG need to solve it.
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post #25 of 33 Old 10-17-2015, 08:55 AM
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Thanks, for the additionals pics, this is quite damning for the OLED as the LCD clearly does not have the issue.
One would hope that LG gets around to fixing this sooner rather than later!
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post #26 of 33 Old 10-24-2015, 02:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I decide to not spend any more time to make pictures as this 2 last pictures show the bug good enough.

I send a mail with this 2 pictures again to the technician from LG Germany ask him again to take a look and report this bug to Korea that they can fix it.

I also copy him the link to this tread to give him the possibility to read also what other say to it.

It is been already a week that he had my mail in his hand but again not any answer at all not even that he get this mail.
what a shame......
Also not nice is that people that may plan to buy this tv complain that this bug is there but can not spend 5 min. to post here something about it.
Looks like they not understand how importent it is as most companys read here.
Without there post companys think "oh it is only few people so we not have to take care about it"!
And all this only because many people say " it will make not any difference if i post here or not".
THIS IS WRONG most company read here without saying it!

Anyway i will not give up on this and next is that I will send to the CEO LG Germany a letter explain what happen and what was the reaction from LG.

I will report if he will answer and if so what.
If there will be not an answer from him i will find a way to contact a VIP from LG in Korea.
Yappadappadu and ONDr like this.

Last edited by W.Mayer; 10-24-2015 at 02:33 AM.
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post #27 of 33 Old 11-08-2015, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I got News from LG but sad no good News!

Looks like this Display have this bug when you feed 3D 4K MPOs and possible this generation OLED cannot Display it without this bug.
At least I understand this from the mail I got from the LG Technician.

Bad but good that LG respond to it.
Some People are not have anymore interest in buying this TV but I hope LG will find a way to solve it may with a new generations of OLEDS.


I am sure at CES 2016 we will see a new Generation OLEDs an hopefully bigger one as well.
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post #28 of 33 Old 11-09-2015, 10:54 PM
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I got News from LG but sad no good News!

Looks like this Display have this bug when you feed 3D 4K MPOs and possible[ B]this generation OLED cannot Display it without this bug[/B].
At least I understand this from the mail I got from the LG Technician.

Bad but good that LG respond to it.
Some People are not have anymore interest in buying this TV but I hope LG will find a way to solve it may with a new generations of OLEDS.

I am sure at CES 2016 we will see a new Generation OLEDs an hopefully bigger one as well.
Do you have the 65EG9600 or the 65EF9500?

Between the EC9300, EG9600, EG9100 and EF9500, I'm trying to understand which models suffer from this 3D bug...
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-10-2015, 05:12 AM
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Do you have the 65EG9600 or the 65EF9500?

Between the EC9300, EG9600, EG9100 and EF9500, I'm trying to understand which models suffer from this 3D bug...
He said in his OP: "Since may 2015 I own a LG 4K 65" which would make it the EG model.
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post #30 of 33 Old 11-10-2015, 09:25 AM
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He said in his OP: "Since may 2015 I own a LG 4K 65" which would make it the EG model.
That's likely correct.

So then the question is whether the EF9500 suffers from the same bug or might be considered a 'next-generation' as per the email response...
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