OLED vs Projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
  • 2 Post By Stanton
  • 1 Post By R Harkness
  • 1 Post By tgm1024
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Pitot Static's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 28
OLED vs Projector

So heres a discussion I haven't seen pop up in here. I'm highly interested in acquiring a 65ef9500 OLED because, naturally, I'm in pursuit of the ultimate black. This TV is frequently compared to other FALD LCD options, since that would be its competition until other OLED options exist, and it usually compares favorably as long as you don't get a bad/marginal panel with regards to uniformity.

Well, currently, my home theater setup involves a Panasonic AE4000 and a pull up from the floor 67" matte white screen. On a screen that small the image is plenty bright and even handles some ambient light quite well (in the sense that you can still see the image even if it loses some contrast). However, its sort of a waste of a projector given that I haven't even broken the ~75"+ botique size range. So size-wise a 65" panel TV would be fantastic.

Is anyone else going from a projector to an OLED TV to capitalize in the amazing contrast, and if so, where there anythings that you "missed" about the projector besides the obvious difference in potential screen size (not a factor for me since I can't really fit anything much larger).

When they were still selling VT60 plasmas I was tempted by them, but I think at the time I was satisfied enough by the projector and didn't have enough cash to justify the swap, but now OLED seems like such a big jump that it may be worth it.

I'm not put off by the vignetting (doesn't seem to be as bad on the ef9500, and even if you get a bad panel, there some to be more bad than good) and the yellow streak people have been obsessing over lately also seems to fade in time as you let the tv do its refres hat shutdown, so theres are issues that I'm aware of but not scared of.

The primary image quality/convenience attributes that an OLED TV would beat a projector on are the following from my perspective:

1. Obviously, better contrast. When an OLED pixel is off, its not emitting light. When a projector pixel is off, not only is the projector still outputting light, but any minute amount of ambient light in the room is raising the black level floor.

2. No dust blobs. When I first noticed a dust blob on my projector, I went through the steps to blow it out, it was good for a few months, and then I got another. Its a widespread problem on panasonic projectors and anything that doesn't have a sealed light engine. Its not unfixable, but I got tired of it so now i just tolerate the blobs in dark scenes instead of freaking out about them.

3. Focus/sharpness - Even if my projector didn't have the smooth screen filter that blurs out the gaps between the pixels, it still has quirks that are the realities of LCD projection - a $2000 projector can't have a $10,000 lens on it so it'll only get so sharp even when you've got the focus dialed in. The smooth screen eliminates black gaps between the pixels, but doesn't really do much to blur them. Then theres also panel convergence - its not bad on my projector by any means, but its just hard to have three perfectly converged LCD panels in a consumer projector. I think the smooth screen might be one thing my projector will do better than an OLED because OLEDs look like they have pretty bad fill ratios (lot sof black between pixels), but then on the 4k OLEDs, theres so many pixels that theres not a lot of room for black spaces between. I'm not in the market for a 1080p OLED so that might not matte.r

4. Better screen geometry - the pull up screen i have isn't tightly tensioned so while its not curved or incredibly wrinkled, its still a little wavy and thus not perfect. I don't really have a way to mount a properly tensioned screen on the wall (Apartment) and the OLED TV eliminates the need to have the screen and projector taking up space on opposite ends of the room. With the TV its just a single-unit solution.

There might be other benefits to OLEDs vs projectors or oleds vs my particular projector, but I'm more worried about tradeoffs that I might not have considered. As far as sizing is concerned I actually plan on keeping the projector anyway and using that in a more temporary role, like setting up a drive-in type deal at a friends house or getting a much larger screen if I end up moving to a bigger place. Is there anything else people can think of that might solidify my desire for an OLED or make me rethink projectors?
Pitot Static is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 01:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitot Static View Post
When a projector pixel is off, not only is the projector still outputting light, but any minute amount of ambient light in the room is raising the black level floor.
Not only any minute amount of ambient light in the room is raising the black level floor, the light of the screen itself is reflected by the room and bounced back to the screen. That's why one can never have really black blacks even with laser projector like Epson LS10000.
OLED is the way to go, especially when 77 inchers become commercially available.
UltraBlack is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 01:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Stanton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Plano, TX USA
Posts: 3,880
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1786 Post(s)
Liked: 900
I may have watched my last movie on my projector...because I just bought an 65EF9500. Even though there's a ~30 inch size difference, I have no motivation to invest more $$ in a medium that essentially was an answer to small (<40") TVs. My projector filled a need (mostly for size) for years, but nothing can beat the quality of OLED.

Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR [v1.81], LG 65EF9500 4K OLED [v4.26.00]
5.0.2 set-up: (4) Polk Monitor 10B's, (2) Polk Monitor 4's, Polk CS300 center
B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
Pioneer CLD-99 LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD [v1.80]
Stanton is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 01:46 PM
Member
 
Johnny B. Goode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitot Static View Post
So heres a discussion I haven't seen pop up in here. I'm highly interested in acquiring a 65ef9500 OLED because, naturally, I'm in pursuit of the ultimate black. This TV is frequently compared to other FALD LCD options, since that would be its competition until other OLED options exist, and it usually compares favorably as long as you don't get a bad/marginal panel with regards to uniformity.

Well, currently, my home theater setup involves a Panasonic AE4000 and a pull up from the floor 67" matte white screen. On a screen that small the image is plenty bright and even handles some ambient light quite well (in the sense that you can still see the image even if it loses some contrast). However, its sort of a waste of a projector given that I haven't even broken the ~75"+ botique size range. So size-wise a 65" panel TV would be fantastic.

Is anyone else going from a projector to an OLED TV to capitalize in the amazing contrast, and if so, where there anythings that you "missed" about the projector besides the obvious difference in potential screen size (not a factor for me since I can't really fit anything much larger).

When they were still selling VT60 plasmas I was tempted by them, but I think at the time I was satisfied enough by the projector and didn't have enough cash to justify the swap, but now OLED seems like such a big jump that it may be worth it.

I'm not put off by the vignetting (doesn't seem to be as bad on the ef9500, and even if you get a bad panel, there some to be more bad than good) and the yellow streak people have been obsessing over lately also seems to fade in time as you let the tv do its refres hat shutdown, so theres are issues that I'm aware of but not scared of.

The primary image quality/convenience attributes that an OLED TV would beat a projector on are the following from my perspective:

1. Obviously, better contrast. When an OLED pixel is off, its not emitting light. When a projector pixel is off, not only is the projector still outputting light, but any minute amount of ambient light in the room is raising the black level floor.

2. No dust blobs. When I first noticed a dust blob on my projector, I went through the steps to blow it out, it was good for a few months, and then I got another. Its a widespread problem on panasonic projectors and anything that doesn't have a sealed light engine. Its not unfixable, but I got tired of it so now i just tolerate the blobs in dark scenes instead of freaking out about them.

3. Focus/sharpness - Even if my projector didn't have the smooth screen filter that blurs out the gaps between the pixels, it still has quirks that are the realities of LCD projection - a $2000 projector can't have a $10,000 lens on it so it'll only get so sharp even when you've got the focus dialed in. The smooth screen eliminates black gaps between the pixels, but doesn't really do much to blur them. Then theres also panel convergence - its not bad on my projector by any means, but its just hard to have three perfectly converged LCD panels in a consumer projector. I think the smooth screen might be one thing my projector will do better than an OLED because OLEDs look like they have pretty bad fill ratios (lot sof black between pixels), but then on the 4k OLEDs, theres so many pixels that theres not a lot of room for black spaces between. I'm not in the market for a 1080p OLED so that might not matte.r

4. Better screen geometry - the pull up screen i have isn't tightly tensioned so while its not curved or incredibly wrinkled, its still a little wavy and thus not perfect. I don't really have a way to mount a properly tensioned screen on the wall (Apartment) and the OLED TV eliminates the need to have the screen and projector taking up space on opposite ends of the room. With the TV its just a single-unit solution.

There might be other benefits to OLEDs vs projectors or oleds vs my particular projector, but I'm more worried about tradeoffs that I might not have considered. As far as sizing is concerned I actually plan on keeping the projector anyway and using that in a more temporary role, like setting up a drive-in type deal at a friends house or getting a much larger screen if I end up moving to a bigger place. Is there anything else people can think of that might solidify my desire for an OLED or make me rethink projectors?
If nothing else, you'd probably watch a lot more actual movies instead of skipping them due to all the hassle of getting the projector setup running.
Johnny B. Goode is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 02:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Stanton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Plano, TX USA
Posts: 3,880
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1786 Post(s)
Liked: 900
^ ^ ^ Did you really have to quote the whole post to say one sentence?
NintendoManiac64 and who1zep like this.

Yamaha RX-A2050 AVR [v1.81], LG 65EF9500 4K OLED [v4.26.00]
5.0.2 set-up: (4) Polk Monitor 10B's, (2) Polk Monitor 4's, Polk CS300 center
B&O TX2 Turntable, Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1
Pioneer CLD-99 LD, Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD [v1.80]
Stanton is online now  
post #6 of 13 Old 10-05-2015, 05:59 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,183
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2814 Post(s)
Liked: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
I may have watched my last movie on my projector...because I just bought an 65EF9500. Even though there's a ~30 inch size difference, I have no motivation to invest more $$ in a medium that essentially was an answer to small (<40") TVs. My projector filled a need (mostly for size) for years, but nothing can beat the quality of OLED.
I certainly get the image quality appeal of OLED. As a long time flat panel fan I have ogled them in the stores and at shows (calibrated). Plus, especially because I've always watched my displays in the dark, be it flat panel or projector, I'm a black level fiend, so the "perfect" black levels of OLED are alluring.

All that said, I still can't conceive of giving up the size of the projected image I have for today's flat screens.
As good as they can be, they still produce for me the "miniature" effect: everything on screen is much smaller than I am, even giant spaceships. Once I got a projector I finally re-experienced the sense of immersion and size that evoked my cinema experiences. I was so used to watching, for instance, Alien, over the years on CRTs and then flat panels, seeing it as just "TV" sized. But on a screen over 10 feet wide the ship finally looked big again, passing over me, the interiors like I could walk in and inhabit them, just like I used to feel when watching in the movie theaters.

Just last night I re-visited some scenes in the original star wars movies and man o man, sometimes it felt like being in the cockpit of the X-wings, flying over the death star that looked HUGE.

That is too thrilling and special an experience for me to give up very easily.
Elix likes this.
R Harkness is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 10-06-2015, 06:57 PM
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maybe ⅓ of the way from here to there.
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2589 Post(s)
Liked: 2312
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraBlack View Post
Not only any minute amount of ambient light in the room is raising the black level floor, the light of the screen itself is reflected by the room and bounced back to the screen.
That happens with OLED also. {shrug} Especially if the screen is hyper reflective, like they seem to be so far. A black pixel is not emitting anything, true, but it's not sitting there absorbing everything coming back at it either. It has the facing glass on top of it.
tgm1024 is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 11-08-2015, 11:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
Carrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
I may have watched my last movie on my projector...because I just bought an 65EF9500. Even though there's a ~30 inch size difference, I have no motivation to invest more $$ in a medium that essentially was an answer to small (<40") TVs. My projector filled a need (mostly for size) for years, but nothing can beat the quality of OLED.

I am in the same boat but apparently OLED is still not perfect since JVC, Sony and others are still making high-dollar projectors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
That happens with OLED also. {shrug} Especially if the screen is hyper reflective, like they seem to be so far. A black pixel is not emitting anything, true, but it's not sitting there absorbing everything coming back at it either. It has the facing glass on top of it.
This is a perfect reason to not jump and get one, but many online reviews (CNET, Forbes, etc) cite that 4k in any other medium is a waste of time due to the better blacks of OLED.
So can this be resolved in nearly complete darkness? or will the other OLED pixels also reflect off the glass where the blacks should be?

I am just a layman (non-engineer, non-videophile, etc) looking to this forum's advice to get possibly the upcoming JVC to avoid the "miniature effect" mentioned above, but the 65" OLED still lingers in the back of my mind based on the reviews. 65" OLED is $5k and then there is the RS500 with so many good features and near 4k picture.

There can be only one... per the wife, 'er Grand Master. lol
Carrick is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 11-08-2015, 03:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Turrican4D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
That happens with OLED also. {shrug} Especially if the screen is hyper reflective, like they seem to be so far. A black pixel is not emitting anything, true, but it's not sitting there absorbing everything coming back at it either. It has the facing glass on top of it.
Reflections on a glass surface are a very different thing than worsening the blacks on a projection screen with the light emitted by a projector.

Prof. Dr. Turrican M.D.
Turrican4D is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 11-08-2015, 03:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 5,915
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1668 Post(s)
Liked: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

All that said, I still can't conceive of giving up the size of the projected image I have for today's flat screens.
As good as they can be, they still produce for me the "miniature" effect: everything on screen is much smaller than I am, even giant spaceships. Once I got a projector I finally re-experienced the sense of immersion and size that evoked my cinema experiences.
I agree completely. 16K worth of speakers doesn't hurt either.

I have both an LG 55EF9500 and a Sony 600ES with a 138" 16:9 screen. The 600 upscales 720p and 1080i better than the OLED so you don't get so distracted by the blurriness.

Buzz
THX Certified Level II Video Calibrator



 
buzzard767 is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 11-08-2015, 03:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 589
Commenting as an OLED and Projector owner, prefer OLED for tv and sports. For movies the projector throwing light onto a screen gives me the same look and feel of my commercial theater and the reason I built a light controlled home cinema.
Orbitron is online now  
post #12 of 13 Old 11-08-2015, 09:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SED <--- Rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Liked: 198
I have a JVC RS35 projector and I've seen the LG OLEDs. One thing I can definitely say is that my projector gives a more "film-like" image. A true movie fan would prefer a "film-like" image over the "tv" image of the OLEDs. I'm sure the newer and upcoming JVCs will only look better.
SED <--- Rules is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 11-09-2015, 07:34 AM
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maybe ⅓ of the way from here to there.
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2589 Post(s)
Liked: 2312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post
Reflections on a glass surface are a very different thing than worsening the blacks on a projection screen with the light emitted by a projector.
No actually, they're very similar both technically and in effect. In both cases, there is light coming from a region that is intended to not send out anything. In both cases, reflectance is lessening the effective black level.

The primary difference is that with clearly definable reflections, we're now in the realm of spectral reflectance (non-diffuse). This adds the additional problem of having sharply defined edges (of a reflected subject) also competing with the information on the screen.
Carrick likes this.
tgm1024 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off