OLED EG9100...the biggest scam ever. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 43 Old 12-08-2015, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I still thing maybe Madoff is a bigger scam. Maybe.
I read an article that speculated that Madoff's investors would have been fine if they hadn't withdrawn their money in 2008.
Basically the fund collapsed because everyone demanded their money at the same time; if his investors had hung in there, the ponzi scheme would have likely continued.
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post #32 of 43 Old 12-08-2015, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post
I read an article that speculated that Madoff's investors would have been fine if they hadn't withdrawn their money in 2008.
Basically the fund collapsed because everyone demanded their money at the same time; if his investors had hung in there, the ponzi scheme would have likely continued.
Fine in the sense of getting more of their original investment back.

But the guy paid out returns and never made any. In fact, he never invested money. But he did take a fee, i.e. steal a portion of the money.

So there was never a chance of paying back 100 cents on the dollar.

That people have gotten back ~1/2 is only because so much of the money was so new. All Ponzi schemes have the same flaw: They need ever increasing flows as they persist. He was good at flow and therefore a lot of money was new. But he was a thief and was, again, paying "returns" to people who withdrew along the way to make the whole thing seem real. Those payments were made using new money. All Ponzi schemes need to do this, too. All Ponzi schemes, therefore, eventually have to collapse as if they took in 100% of the world's money they would still ultimately fail.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #33 of 43 Old 12-08-2015, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Fine in the sense of getting more of their original investment back.

But the guy paid out returns and never made any. In fact, he never invested money. But he did take a fee, i.e. steal a portion of the money.

So there was never a chance of paying back 100 cents on the dollar.
The investors in Madoff's Ponzi scheme have recovered 60% of their investment : http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/new-se...er-10-billion/

In the seven years since the fund collapsed, the DJIA has gone up over 100%.

We can only speculate on how Madoff invested his funds; as I understand it, his records were crappy.

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

That people have gotten back ~1/2 is only because so much of the money was so new. All Ponzi schemes have the same flaw: They need ever increasing flows as they persist. He was good at flow and therefore a lot of money was new. But he was a thief and was, again, paying "returns" to people who withdrew along the way to make the whole thing seem real. Those payments were made using new money. All Ponzi schemes need to do this, too. All Ponzi schemes, therefore, eventually have to collapse as if they took in 100% of the world's money they would still ultimately fail.
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post #34 of 43 Old 12-08-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mhrir View Post
Scam? LOL, I don't think so.

But as the former owner of two EG9100s (both 09/15 builds) who now has a Samsung J9000 here is my perspective.

Obviously the contrast and viewing angle of OLED is nothing short of remarkable. I was completely wowed when I turned it on at home. Then reality set in...

I think we can all agree that in general the screen quality of OLED is pretty bad. Banding; pink and yellow blobs, vignetting, and black detail crush are all well documented. Sure a few have gotten lucky and even more probably don't notice or care. But the rest keep holding out that the December builds, and soon the January builds will get better. Well they haven't and they won't. In my opinion OLED ain't ready for prime time. Maybe there is a reason Samsung and Panasonic walked (or maybe ran) away from it? My guess is LG has to just keep cranking them out because they spent the money and now they have to try to get it back.

I really wanted to love OLED and in desperation almost pulled the trigger on an EF9500 but I couldn't take another disappointing experience.

So after some investigation and a post pointing out that the JS9500 would have won the VE shootout if viewing angle was not considered, I reluctantly decided to take a look at LED. Knowing the limitations going in I chose a JS9000 since I felt it fit best the intersection between my viewing environment and price. Sure it's edge lit and therefore inferior. I accept that. Do I miss the contrast? Hell yes. Do I miss the horrible vertical banding and pink tint? Perfect contrast doesn't mean much when the the screen uniformity keep trying to scratch your eyes out.
Samsung and other manufactures have backed off because LG holds the patent for the only economical way to produce large OLED screens. Panasonic has a 65" OLED coming out very soon. They're sourcing the panel from LG. It'll be expensive, but reviews are saying Panny has fixed a lot of the ABL uniformity issues.
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post #35 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post
Samsung and other manufactures have backed off because LG holds the patent for the only economical way to produce large OLED screens.
To be accurate, Samsung stopped production because the yields were too low. LG on the other hand seems to have no issue cranking out garbage screens for their OLED TVs (they sold the few good ones to Panasonic).

$3000 for a 55" 4K OLED isn't sustainable. If the yields don't improve, OLED is dead man walking.

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Originally Posted by Mrke1 View Post
Panasonic has a 65" OLED coming out very soon. They're sourcing the panel from LG. It'll be expensive, but reviews are saying Panny has fixed a lot of the ABL uniformity issues.
I would hope so for a TV that's going cost 10,000 Euros and rumor has it that Panasonic had to hand choose each screen to get enough for the limited run of 250 units.


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post #36 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrir View Post
To be accurate, Samsung stopped production because the yields were too low. LG on the other hand seems to have no issue cranking out garbage screens for their OLED TVs (they sold the few good ones to Panasonic).

$3000 for a 55" 4K OLED isn't sustainable. If the yields don't improve, OLED is dead man walking.



I would hope so for a TV that's going cost 10,000 Euros and rumor has it that Panasonic had to hand choose each screen to get enough for the limited run of 250 units.


LG yields by year

2013 10-15% 1080p
2014 60% 1080p
2015 >65% UHD UHD (4k)
2015 80% 1080p

End of 2015 early 2016 yields are targeted for 80% on UHD

These numbers are moving targets; so depending on when I took note of the numbers during the year it could be slightly different.

Not that anything can't change on a dime... but this is an interesting article.
http://www.oled-info.com/lg-announce...le-oled-panels

Last edited by SiGGy; 12-09-2015 at 09:31 AM.
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post #37 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post
The investors in Madoff's Ponzi scheme have recovered 60% of their investment : http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/new-se...er-10-billion/
Sorry, I didn't realize it had gotten to 60%. Last I checked it was ~50%.

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We can only speculate on how Madoff invested his funds; as I understand it, his records were crappy.
No, we don't have to speculate.

He never invested the money at all.

He didn't need records because there were no trades.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/21/bu...pagewanted=all

He had fake records produced to show his "returns" were happening.

There were no trades.

No returns.

That was essential to how Harry Markopolos knew Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme, a fact he reported to the SEC years before Madoff turned himself in.

The SEC blew it.

100%.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124208012

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #38 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
End of 2015 early 2016 yields are targeted for 80% on UHD

These numbers are moving targets; so depending on when I took note of the numbers during the year it could be slightly different.
Increasing OLED yields by lowering the standard for what passes as acceptable. There's progress! Surely you won't disagree that the OLED screen quality LG has been putting out has been atrocious.
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post #39 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Sorry, I didn't realize it had gotten to 60%. Last I checked it was ~50%.
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Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post
The investors in Madoff's Ponzi scheme have recovered 60% of their investment
Why is there a discussion about Bernie Madoff going on in this thread? Please discuss this elsewhere.
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post #40 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mhrir View Post
Increasing OLED yields by lowering the standard for what passes as acceptable. There's progress! Surely you won't disagree that the OLED screen quality LG has been putting out has been atrocious.
Atrocious? no, far from it.

Even looking at the small polls on here approximately 70% of owners consider their panel acceptable; albeit not perfect.

They have made a lot of progress; I'm not about to speculate on how their pass/fail criteria is set. Unless someone has some documentation on it it's all speculation.

You make it sound like every LCD and plasma coming off the line is/was perfect. ROFL. Panasonic had years of green/pink blobs and bands... And this was many years into Plasma maturity. LCD still has flash lighting, banding, clouding... IMO OLED is quite good for how mature it is.

These are consumer devices; not professional grade sets. Small quirks in the mass production process are expected. As time progresses they will improve the manufacturing process and continue to hone in their build tolerances.
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post #41 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 04:02 PM
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Why is there a discussion about Bernie Madoff going on in this thread? Please discuss this elsewhere.
Because of the thread title.

And really the thread itself was nothing but trolling anyway.

And I think we've exhausted the side conversation.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #42 of 43 Old 12-09-2015, 08:25 PM
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I have the 55ec9300 and I have no issues with my set minus some very slight stutter on scrolling news tickers. I was at the VE shootout and although the JS9500 and the 940c looked great, they still do not have the wow factor that the OLED can deliver.

I was on this forum almost everyday searching for something better . Since Ive had this set It has hardly crossed my mind to replace it, and sad to say Ive been a ghost around here. Maybe when the 4k Blu Rays are released ill upgrade .

To the original OP , you must have received either a bad set, had settings completely muffed, or some terrible source material. Its just not possible for the OLED to look worse than the other model you mentioned.
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post #43 of 43 Old 07-29-2016, 05:41 AM
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I have to agree with the OP to a point.

GRAY UNIFORMITY

I bought a 9100. Everything was great until I watched dark scenes ....oh oh. Run tests at 1% 2% 3% gray. The uniformity is AWFUL. Yes it can dislay pure black. Yes it can diplay pure black next to pure white without issue. BUt scenes are not pure black and white are they? Its shadows. THis is where the LG OLED fell to pieces and its all over this very forum. Vertical banding, hot spots, vignette ..... its nasty. If I play a 2% grey video for instance it varies from 2% to about 10%. No other display I own has a problem with the same video.

So for anyone wanting to buy an OLD take a USB stick with you of test photos or videos in the almost black zones.

It changes day to day as well. I dont know what causes it but I suspect bad power boards. It would seem to me the screen is divided into zone for power supply and at low levels it cannot do the job. Just my theory. Since so many people have the problem and even after getting replacements its clear LG doesn't have a solution.

To bad .... the picture can be awesome but movies have shadows and soon as overall dark scenes some in its an ugly mess. Who cares if you can diplay pure black if all shades between 1 - 8% cant display at all?

Last edited by audioduck; 07-29-2016 at 09:46 AM.
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