2016 LG OLEDs - G6, E6, C6, and B6 - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3031 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 09:42 AM
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Hello Everyone,

I’ve got a couple of questions that I know have been discussed but here they are. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

1.) It was my understanding that the EF9500 could only play HDR 4K content through its onboard apps and not via HDMI from a Roku or Nvidia Shield etc... (I know the Sony 930c operated this way). Is this correct and with that said, can the new 2016 OLED models play 4k content via HDMI from a Roku or Nvidia Shield.

2.) Also, if the above holds true, do I need to purchase “new” HDMI cables to take advantage of HDR 4K content being streamed from a media device (Roku/Nvidia Shield) via HDMI?

Thanks so much and have a great day!

S
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post #3032 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 09:46 AM
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The EF9500 series does support HDR over HDMI.
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post #3033 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by redmeister View Post
Anyone else deciding between the Microcenter $3500 deal for a 65EF9500 versus waiting for a 65B6 to eventually come down in price? Seems like consensus is the B6 would possibly sell for around $4000 by the holidays. That's still a $500 difference, or a gamble if prices swing either direction more than we're expecting 8 months from now.

Planning on keeping this TV for 5 years so want to be able to take full advantage of any future mainstream HDR content. EF can obviously do that, but will the B6's HDR10 and DolbyVision support be that much more important? Don't really care about 3D. Hard to say no to the EF deal, but don't want to kick myself for not being able to take full advantage of HDR content in whatever flavor content companies decide to use.
Hard to pass on the 65EF9500 deal, especially since the price may get even lower to $3K, but if HDR is really important to you I think you should wait. By all accounts HDR and WCG are worth it, and it seems like DV will make them automatic. Where it seems people are having a heck of a time dialing in HDR10 from various source. It is worth $500 to me for it just to work.
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post #3034 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:01 AM
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Every reviewer I have trusted has said HDR is more important than 4K
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post #3035 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff43 View Post
IMHO, the sweet spot for advanced viewing will be the 2016 models and should easily keep you top notch for a minimum, a bare minimum, of five years. Wholesale changes in quality after the 2016 models will be modest at best. However, if you wait, you could very well see the EF topple another few hundred bucks making it an unbelievable deal by the end of this year..
I've been thinking about this lately and am inclined to believe the 2016 models are not the "sweet spot" models. I believe they will be a fantastic choice for many people, but the ramp-up issues and the vignetting hack and the "compensation cycle" stuff indicate to me that this isn't a fully baked technology that screams, "We're all good here."

That doesn't mean people shouldn't buy now and it certainly doesn't argue for buying last year's tech without features like Dolby Vision, but if you are thinking, "Yeah, I bought in a year where the consensus was things are about to enter a period of only marginal gains" then remove me from the consensus.

Now, problematically, I can't tell you whether I believe 2017, 2018 or 2019 qualifies as that year.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #3036 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:25 AM
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I'm taking the pessimist view and going with the outlier, 2019 (if that), as the year these grayscale problems get fixed. I say this as someone bound to an eventual 2016 model (E6), mind you. I'm just trying to temper my expectations and am expecting merely incremental improvement over 2015. 2016 has been quite overhyped as the panacea to all the prior problems, but there are already cracks beginning to show in the armor of that view. That's why I see no reason to believe 2017 and 2018 will be much different.
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post #3037 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:32 AM
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I just hope that they are issues that “do” get fixed eventually. And it isn’t like LCD with motion resolution, light bleed or blooming, where they still remain a problem.

I don’t want it to be where “this is just inherent issues with this technology” with the problems with OLED.
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post #3038 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:40 AM
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Don't forget, people (most) are judging 1 tv that was a day old on pictures taken probably with a 'phone camera.

Maybe time to cut a little slack?
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post #3039 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:42 AM
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In a strange way, I am glad the price of the 77" stayed astronomically high, as there is no temptation for me to upgrade my 70" elite in the short term. I'll just sit on the fence for a couple of more years and see how things shake out further as this tech matures and prices drop.
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post #3040 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 11:44 AM
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Just something I found interesting: I don't quite understand the "back end" of display technologies, so I'm unaware of the major differences between the two types of display, but I have a 9.7" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2, which has an AMOLED screen. It's a beautiful display, and I use it frequently to watch some programs on Netflix while I work out on an elliptical and treadmill. I was on YouTube on it last night, and happened to notice some test patterns in my history queue, so out of total curiosity, I pulled them up.

Turns out, my Tab S2 has vertical banding (horizontal banding if holding the device vertically) that is incredibly consistent, if not identical to what I see in everyone's pictures of the LG OLEDs. I could see it very clearly at 5%, but once I got below, the display seems to (mostly) crush black detail, so I couldn't really tell. Suffice to say, the screen is small enough that I have absolutely never noticed it in any type of content I've watched on the screen, but I found it interesting nonetheless, and perhaps pertinent to the overall discussion of whether or not this is something that can be totally eradicated, or simply improved upon, long-term.
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post #3041 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I'm taking the pessimist view and going with the outlier, 2019 (if that), as the year these grayscale problems get fixed. I say this as someone bound to an eventual 2016 model (E6), mind you. I'm just trying to temper my expectations and am expecting merely incremental improvement over 2015. 2016 has been quite overhyped as the panacea to all the prior problems, but there are already cracks beginning to show in the armor of that view. That's why I see no reason to believe 2017 and 2018 will be much different.
What are you talking about? Have you seen the G6? Why don't we all wait a couple more days until some of us get the set and run it through it's paces?

I have spent a lot of time with the G6 and I can tell you that it is an evolutionary step up from 2015 in many ways. I don't believe you will see a revolutionary change in OLED at this point in the technology's life cycle. You will probably see brighter and thinner displays, cheaper prices and wider color gamut as the years go on.
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post #3042 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 12:57 PM
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I've seen (and owned) enough LG WOLEDs to know the inherent problems near black. Short of a blackout environment with the correct material, there is no point looking at a demo to try to gauge the problem.
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post #3043 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I've seen (and owned) enough LG WOLEDs to know the inherent problems near black. Short of a blackout environment with the correct material, there is no point looking at a demo to try to gauge the problem.
I understand so which is why it won't be long now where users get their sets and then we can get some more feedback.
You also need to look at it this way. LG got "hammered" last year with all the display problems so you would think that they would have fixed them and or got the screen uniformity "good enough" otherwise there wouldn't be much future for them. Unfortunately we will never really know what went on back at LG's design team but I can tell you that they seem to be hyper aware of their "image" and from what I saw this year with the G6 at VE, LG had reps there for the install to make sure everything was just right. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.

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post #3044 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 03:10 PM
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Who knows, we are very vocal, but a minority.

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post #3045 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 03:47 PM
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Like ive said for the last few years it will take another company and probably another manufacturing process ( rgb oled ) to eraducate the lg woled issues.
Lg cant sort the issues out so they will come out with thinner models and more badges. Consumers need to stop falling for the hype every year and it still turns out with the same or new issues.
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post #3046 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I understand so which is why it won't be long now where users get their sets and then we can get some more feedback.
You also need to look at it this way. LG got "hammered" last year with all the display problems so you would think that they would have fixed them and or got the screen uniformity "good enough" otherwise there wouldn't be much future for them. Unfortunately we will never really know what went on back at LG's design team but I can tell you that they seem to be hyper aware of their "image" and from what I saw this year with the G6 at VE, LG had reps there for the install to make sure everything was just right. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
Do you mean like the EG9600 winning the Value Electronics Shootout? lolol

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post #3047 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mariner still View Post
Don't forget, people (most) are judging 1 tv that was a day old on pictures taken probably with a 'phone camera.

Maybe time to cut a little slack?
No kidding, a science based forum this is not. A singular data point that should carry little weight given the when

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Only if lg took a page from Panasonic, whereas Panasonic actually asked for guidance from top reviewers of uk avforums when developing their 2016 dx900 led tv. I think amongst all the critical eyes on these Oled forums I'm sure we'd dish out a pretty nice set
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post #3049 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smccracken View Post
Hello Everyone,

I’ve got a couple of questions that I know have been discussed but here they are. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

1.) It was my understanding that the EF9500 could only play HDR 4K content through its onboard apps and not via HDMI from a Roku or Nvidia Shield etc... (I know the Sony 930c operated this way). Is this correct and with that said, can the new 2016 OLED models play 4k content via HDMI from a Roku or Nvidia Shield.

2.) Also, if the above holds true, do I need to purchase “new” HDMI cables to take advantage of HDR 4K content being streamed from a media device (Roku/Nvidia Shield) via HDMI?

Thanks so much and have a great day!

S
The EF9500 will support HDR via HDMI but you'll need Samsung's new UHD BD player for now. Roku doesn't support HDR yet.

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post #3050 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 06:35 PM
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So we should know B6 pricing in a few weeks?
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post #3051 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 08:38 PM
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So we should know B6 pricing in a few weeks?
Where did you hear this?

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post #3052 of 12467 Old 03-17-2016, 09:44 PM
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Don't forget, people (most) are judging 1 tv that was a day old on pictures taken probably with a 'phone camera.

Maybe time to cut a little slack?
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No kidding, a science based forum this is not. A singular data point that should carry little weight given the when
I get that the early anecdotes are very limited. But they exist and they carry one, singular message: "Not everything is magically fixed."

You can choose to believe that somehow magic will set it. I choose to (a) ignore things like "compensation cycles" as any kind of panacea; to me that's a hack -- maybe a good hack, but a hack (b) believe that when the bugs are crushed, you'll know it, not be hoping for it.

I've speculated a range of time where I think we might hit some kind of "this is nirvana" period. Not coincidentally, I believe that pricing on the 55s and 65s will also be approaching a range where most AVSers wouldn't hesitate to spend the amount LG will then ask. Unfortunately, there is little reason to believe that will occur before 2018-19 on the larger size(s) (which today is solely a 77-incher).

Again, this isn't a recommendation not to buy in 2016. Nor is it an indictment of this year's products, which I've not spent any time with beyond seeing the demo loop at Best Buy.

It's an opinion, informed by lots of hours with lots of TVs over lots of years, examining them in their pricing moves, in their technological development, etc. And it tells me 2016, while a year of important progress, won't be remembered like the year of the Panasonic VT30 or the discounted Pioneer Kuro or even the Vizio M Series of last year -- when enough stars aligned that you wanted to go: "Now!"
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Now that we know the input lag for gaming, I shall be picking one up in the future. Regretfully the C6 as I do want the 3D and I'm not paying the excess cost for the E6. Would rather go flat, but at least the curve isn't too bad on these sets.
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post #3054 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 12:54 AM
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I get that the early anecdotes are very limited. But they exist and they carry one, singular message: "Not everything is magically fixed."

You can choose to believe that somehow magic will set it. I choose to (a) ignore things like "compensation cycles" as any kind of panacea; to me that's a hack -- maybe a good hack, but a hack (b) believe that when the bugs are crushed, you'll know it, not be hoping for it.

I've speculated a range of time where I think we might hit some kind of "this is nirvana" period. Not coincidentally, I believe that pricing on the 55s and 65s will also be approaching a range where most AVSers wouldn't hesitate to spend the amount LG will then ask. Unfortunately, there is little reason to believe that will occur before 2018-19 on the larger size(s) (which today is solely a 77-incher).

Again, this isn't a recommendation not to buy in 2016. Nor is it an indictment of this year's products, which I've not spent any time with beyond seeing the demo loop at Best Buy.

It's an opinion, informed by lots of hours with lots of TVs over lots of years, examining them in their pricing moves, in their technological development, etc. And it tells me 2016, while a year of important progress, won't be remembered like the year of the Panasonic VT30 or the discounted Pioneer Kuro or even the Vizio M Series of last year -- when enough stars aligned that you wanted to go: "Now!"
I'm not coming to any conclusions at this point and the anecdotes may indicate not everything is magically fixed but the most informed opinion to date that I know of is from David Mackenzie and he feels that the uniformity issues have improved to the point that it's not much of an issue. If this sample unit is representative of the ones for retail sale, then yes, I tend to still think this is the tipping point for OLEDs given the television's other strengths and the eventual pricing for the B6/C6 models.

Time will tel if these compensation cycles will be a continued necessity and I tend to agree that after 6 hours one shouldn't be thinking it's time to run Clear Panel Noise.

As for the 5% slide photo from the G6 owner's thread the only significance it should have is part of a before and after reference as it was shot soon after the television was turned on. Again I don't know if this will always be the case with OLEDs but I do know the first couple of hours of my EG9100 the uniformity was awful but it does clear up exponentially after a couple of days. This is why I'm vehemently opposed to taking much credence of this one photo.

As far as notable threshold years mine is 2012 when one had the following to choose from ST50/GT50/VT50/E6500/E7000/E8000/Elite 70. Though plasmas continued the next model year with even better PQ it became evident the end was near for plasmas.

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post #3055 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 03:15 AM
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Anyone else deciding between the Microcenter $3500 deal for a 65EF9500 versus waiting for a 65B6 to eventually come down in price? Seems like consensus is the B6 would possibly sell for around $4000 by the holidays. That's still a $500 difference, or a gamble if prices swing either direction more than we're expecting 8 months from now.



I would kill for a deal like that. That model still goes for $6750 in the Netherlands. You would probably get a little bit of a discount, like 10%, but nowhere near what you are offered. I would be happy if the 55 inch model would drop below $3400 over here
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post #3056 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 06:00 AM
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The EF9500 will support HDR via HDMI but you'll need Samsung's new UHD BD player for now. Roku doesn't support HDR yet.
And even then, the Samsung player only supports HDR-10, not Dolby Vision.
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post #3057 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 07:50 AM
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LG got "hammered" last year with all the display problems so you would think that they would have fixed them and or got the screen uniformity "good enough" otherwise there wouldn't be much future for them.
LCD/LED has had display problems since they where invented and they are still around with basically all of the same screen issues. Banding, line bleed, clouding, flash lighting, and more. Even Plasma TV's got picked on. All manufacturers get hammered...........

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Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post
So we should know B6 pricing in a few weeks?
We have all OLED 2016-2017 pricing up now I have been to busy to post it with these Super Sales going on !!
.
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post #3058 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
LG got "hammered" last year with all the display problems so you would think that they would have fixed them and or got the screen uniformity "good enough" otherwise there wouldn't be much future for them.
LCD/LED has had display problems since they where invented and they are still around with basically all of the same screen issues. Banding, line bleed, clouding, flash lighting, and more. Even Plasma TV's got picked on. All manufacturers get hammered...........

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Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post
So we should know B6 pricing in a few weeks?
We have all OLED 2016-2017 pricing up now I have been to busy to post it with these Super Sales going on !!
.
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Do you have rough release dates on the 65c6?
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post #3059 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 08:33 AM
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Where did you hear this?
Was stated earlier in the thread. Don't know how accurate it was so was seeing if anyone else had info.
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post #3060 of 12467 Old 03-18-2016, 09:05 AM
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Where did you hear this?
B6 pricing looks to be $5999

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...C&Q=&A=details
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