2016 LG OLEDs - G6, E6, C6, and B6 - Page 414 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12391 of 12473 Old 01-28-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hauz20 View Post
Well, damnit. Ha ha.

I have the Sony X700 and an Onkyo 656. I have awful lip sync on DV content, both disc-based and streaming.
Try using PCM. I have the OPPO 203.

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post #12392 of 12473 Old 01-28-2019, 06:24 PM
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Try using PCM. I have the OPPO 203.
I appreciate the suggestion, but that doesn't appear to have resolved it.
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post #12393 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 12:18 AM
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Just got a noticed on my tv that MLB will no longer be supporting MLB At Bat on LG tv's. Don't know what is going on, or if Disney is getting rid of MLB AB since they bought BAMTech which owns the MLB AB streaming service.

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post #12394 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 06:02 AM
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I have a Panny 820 and also occasionally have lip sync issues with DV with my C6.

I had them with the X700 I had for a week too, though I seem to be better able to adjust out the lipsync issues on the Panny.

It seems like it's studio based. Warner DV discs seem like they are pretty much ok and require no adjustment. Lionsgate and Paramount DV discs are very problematic.

No issues with DV and lip sync when using my Chromecast Ultra.

I've heard that some studios use different 'types' of DV metadata on disc and it really seems like the C6 chokes on some types. You can feel it in the entire TV, the menus on the TV become super laggy and unresponsive as well.

Between this and the limitations on framerate when taking DV, it really seems like DV is a beta feature on these TVs when it comes to HDMI input.
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post #12395 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 02:34 PM
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I have a Panny 820 and also occasionally have lip sync issues with DV with my C6.

I had them with the X700 I had for a week too, though I seem to be better able to adjust out the lipsync issues on the Panny.

It seems like it's studio based. Warner DV discs seem like they are pretty much ok and require no adjustment. Lionsgate and Paramount DV discs are very problematic.

No issues with DV and lip sync when using my Chromecast Ultra.

I've heard that some studios use different 'types' of DV metadata on disc and it really seems like the C6 chokes on some types. You can feel it in the entire TV, the menus on the TV become super laggy and unresponsive as well.

Between this and the limitations on framerate when taking DV, it really seems like DV is a beta feature on these TVs when it comes to HDMI input.
Yes, I have the menu slowdown as well. No such issues when using apps on the TV itself though. If only the C6 passed Atmos. Oh, well.
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post #12396 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 04:50 PM
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I have a Panny 820 and also occasionally have lip sync issues with DV with my C6.

I had them with the X700 I had for a week too, though I seem to be better able to adjust out the lipsync issues on the Panny.

It seems like it's studio based. Warner DV discs seem like they are pretty much ok and require no adjustment. Lionsgate and Paramount DV discs are very problematic.

No issues with DV and lip sync when using my Chromecast Ultra.

I've heard that some studios use different 'types' of DV metadata on disc and it really seems like the C6 chokes on some types. You can feel it in the entire TV, the menus on the TV become super laggy and unresponsive as well.

Between this and the limitations on framerate when taking DV, it really seems like DV is a beta feature on these TVs when it comes to HDMI input.
I wonder if some players can't handle DV as well as others. My OPPO 203 handles DV perfectly with no lip sync issues. In fact, it's so good, I force the OPPO to convert HDR10 to DV. The only device I have that has lip sync issues with DV is the ATV4K. The only fix I have found was to have the ATV output as PCM.

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post #12397 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 05:03 PM
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Need some advice. I am currently using a 55" LG E6 as my main TV in the lounge room.

I have been looking at getting the Samsung 55" UN7100 HDR TV for my bedroom.

But does anyone know if that TV is actually better than the LG E6, because then I would use that as the main and the E6 in the bedroom.

Btw, I PC game alot too.
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post #12398 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
I wonder if some players can't handle DV as well as others. My OPPO 203 handles DV perfectly with no lip sync issues. In fact, it's so good, I force the OPPO to convert HDR10 to DV. The only device I have that has lip sync issues with DV is the ATV4K. The only fix I have found was to have the ATV output as PCM.
Well, I definitely can't afford a 203 now, lol. I'll just do without DV and Atmos together.
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post #12399 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 08:35 PM
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I wonder if some players can't handle DV as well as others.
I really don't think that's the case. As I said, it's a per title thing for discs and the whole TV bogs down.
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post #12400 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 08:43 PM
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I really don't think that's the case. As I said, it's a per title thing for discs and the whole TV bogs down.
I was thinking the lip sync issue may be caused by the player. Have yet to have lip sync issues with any of my DV discs.

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post #12401 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 08:52 PM
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I was thinking the lip sync issue may be caused by the player. Have yet to have lip sync issues with any of my DV discs.
Nope, the performance of the TV suffers which ends up introducing more input lag.

I remember that you prefer 3:2 motion, are you sure you aren't forcing 60hz output on your 203 which is dropping resolution down to 1080p60 with DV?
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post #12402 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 08:59 PM
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Nope, the performance of the TV suffers which ends up introducing more input lag.

I remember that you prefer 3:2 motion, are you sure you aren't forcing 60hz output on your 203 which is dropping resolution down to 1080p60 with DV?
Nope. I can get 3:2 by setting TrueMotion to 0,0 when watching DV. I dont change anything in the player. It's sending DV 4K 24hz. The tv can't accept 4K [email protected] via HDMI, but it still can take the 24hz signal and apply TM to it, which changes it to 3:2. If you have the C6 or E6, perhaps try FW 05.30.50 from the Korean site. I have had that on my tv since September, and maybe that's why I don't have issues.

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post #12403 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 10:01 PM
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If you have the C6 or E6, perhaps try FW 05.30.50 from the Korean site. I have had that on my tv since September, and maybe that's why I don't have issues.
No dice, Braveheart seems like it may be a tiny bit better, but still not quite right.

You running through an AVR for audio (player to AVR to TV?)
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post #12404 of 12473 Old 01-29-2019, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hauz20 View Post
Well, damnit. Ha ha.

I have the Sony X700 and an Onkyo 656. I have awful lip sync on DV content, both disc-based and streaming.
FWIW, I have a Sony X700 going into my Yamaha 383 to my B7 (different tv I know) and I've had nothing but lip sync issues on just about all content. At this point I've pretty much narrowed it down to the X700 as the cause.

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post #12405 of 12473 Old 01-30-2019, 12:07 AM
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No dice, Braveheart seems like it may be a tiny bit better, but still not quite right.

You running through an AVR for audio (player to AVR to TV?)
Audio from player to AVR. Video from player directly to tv. 80ms offset on my AVR for DV, SDR and HDR10 with the 203. My first UHD player, the Panasonic UB900 required a 220ms offset in the AVR. So not all players act the same way when sending audio from player to AVR. That may be the reason why my OPPO 203 has no issues. It handles the audio better. That's a huge difference between the OPPO and the Panasonic.

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post #12406 of 12473 Old 01-30-2019, 05:00 PM
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Audio from player to AVR. Video from player directly to tv. 80ms offset on my AVR for DV, SDR and HDR10 with the 203. My first UHD player, the Panasonic UB900 required a 220ms offset in the AVR. So not all players act the same way when sending audio from player to AVR. That may be the reason why my OPPO 203 has no issues. It handles the audio better. That's a huge difference between the OPPO and the Panasonic.
Sure if I dial in a delay (60ms works pretty much fine with the 820), it fixes the issue. The problem is I shouldn't have to.

HDR10 and Warner DV discs, no delay is required at all with anything. The TV also doesn't get as bogged down with Warner DV discs.

The fun thing is, even if I have the delay in, HDR10 and Warner DV discs are STILL spot on.

This leads to believe it has to do with the way certain discs are mastered.

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post #12407 of 12473 Old 01-30-2019, 07:43 PM
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Sure if I dial in a delay (60ms works pretty much fine with the 820), it fixes the issue. The problem is I shouldn't have to.

HDR10 and Warner DV discs, no delay is required at all with anything. The TV also doesn't get as bogged down with Warner DV discs.

The fun thing is, even if I have the delay in, HDR10 and Warner DV discs are STILL spot on.

This leads to believe it has to do with the way certain discs are mastered.
Do you have yours setup with audio from player to AVR and video from player to tv using 2 HDMI cables? If you do, then SDR, HDR and DV should all have the exact same offset. Mine are all 80 ms, and not one format has lip sync issues. The fact that I do not have issues tells me it is not a disc issue with regards to lip sync, but either an AVR or player issue and I have a 5 year old cheap Onkyo 5.1 AVR.

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post #12408 of 12473 Old 01-30-2019, 10:43 PM
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Do you have yours setup with audio from player to AVR and video from player to tv using 2 HDMI cables? If you do, then SDR, HDR and DV should all have the exact same offset. Mine are all 80 ms, and not one format has lip sync issues. The fact that I do not have issues tells me it is not a disc issue with regards to lip sync, but either an AVR or player issue and I have a 5 year old cheap Onkyo 5.1 AVR.
That simply isn't the case here. Lionsgate and Paramount DV discs behave differently than Warner discs. The former cause the TV to freak out and have more input lag. It really doesn't matter if you split the audio and video or if you have them go straight through the receiver.

It happened with the X700, it happens with the UB820. I've seen people mention it happens with the LG players as well. There's a lot of evidence that the TV behaves differently depending on how the source is authored.

Dolby Vision has several profiles. More specifically, there's "Full Enhancement Layer" and "Minimum Enhancement Layer". Full Enhancement Layer is a diff against the 10bit HDR10 base layer to reconstruct a full 12bit output with dynamic metadata. MEL is really a very minimum DV layer that allows for dynamic metadata, but isn't enough information to reconstruct full 12 bit output. The difference in data rates is rather large. MEL is only around 60kbps while FEL is 5-7mbps. MEL was created to allow a software upgrade solution for TVs and not require specific hardware. This is also what they refer to as a the "low latency" dolby vision profile. Latency, input lag, I think you can see where I'm going with this.

FEL is original profile. Our TVs support FEL since they are chipset based.

So, here's the fun bit. MEL discs (like The Matrix) are the ones that play with no lipsync issues. FEL discs (Braveheart) are the ones that require delay compensation. All that tracks too. FEL is a much more intensive operation. Our TVs can do it, but it takes more processing. The metadata is much higher bitrate and you are converting from 10bit to 12 bit on top of the dynamic metadata. MEL discs don't include the 10bit to 12bit diff data, it's simply including scene by scene metadata. The interesting thing is the TV is apparently aware of the processing overhead because if you bypass the AVR altogether, audio plays out of the TV in sync with the video. Also, if you force output to be 1080p rather than 4k (but keep BT.2020 and DV), suddenly everything is in sync again. Again, the TV has less processing to do, so input lag is lower and AV sync is maintained.

So, speculation time. If I were to guess, Oppo isn't properly identifying if a display is FEL capable and always doing a FEL to MEL conversion before output and outputting JUST the minimum enhancement layer. There's really no way to verify outside of gear capable of debugging Dolby Vision signals, but Occam's Razor applies. The quality difference between FEL and MEL would probably require VERY specific circumstances to uncover and likely can't be seen on our TVs since they are 10bit panels anyways.

So, basically, my guess is there's a bug in Oppo's DV implementation that's allowing you to play all discs without display latency issues due to it always outputting the "low latency" DV profile or something similar that's stripping out the 12 bit data, giving the TV less to process.

All speculation, but it all fits the evidence. Regardless, it's frustrating for a lot of people. I wonder if there's something that could be put in the HDMI chain to alter the reporting of the TVs capabilities to force the low latency profile all the time.

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post #12409 of 12473 Old 01-30-2019, 11:00 PM
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That simply isn't the case here. Lionsgate and Paramount DV discs behave differently than Warner discs. The former cause the TV to freak out and have more input lag. It really doesn't matter if you split the audio and video or if you have them go straight through the receiver.

It happened with the X700, it happens with the UB820. I've seen people mention it happens with the LG players as well. There's a lot of evidence that the TV behaves differently depending on how the source is authored.

Dolby Vision has several profiles. More specifically, there's "Full Enhancement Layer" and "Minimum Enhancement Layer". Full Enhancement Layer is a diff against the 10bit HDR10 base layer to reconstruct a full 12bit output with dynamic metadata. MEL is really a very minimum DV layer that allows for dynamic metadata, but isn't enough information to reconstruct full 12 bit output. The difference in data rates is rather large. MEL is only around 60kbps while FEL is 5-7mbps. MEL was created to allow a software upgrade solution for TVs and not require specific hardware. This is also what they refer to as a the "low latency" dolby vision profile. Latency, input lag, I think you can see where I'm going with this.

FEL is original profile. Our TVs support FEL since they are chipset based.

So, here's the fun bit. MEL discs (like The Matrix) are the ones that play with no lipsync issues. FEL discs (Braveheart) are the ones that require delay compensation. All that tracks too. FEL is a much more intensive operation. Our TVs can do it, but it takes more processing. The metadata is much higher bitrate and you are converting from 10bit to 12 bit on top of the dynamic metadata. MEL discs don't include the 10bit to 12bit diff data, it's simply including scene by scene metadata. The interesting thing is the TV is apparently aware of the processing overhead because if you bypass the AVR altogether, audio plays out of the TV in sync with the video. Also, if you force output to be 1080p rather than 4k (but keep BT.2020 and DV), suddenly everything is in sync again. Again, the TV has less processing to do, so input lag is lower and AV sync is maintained.

So, speculation time. If I were to guess, Oppo isn't properly identifying if a display is FEL capable and always doing a FEL to MEL conversion before output and outputting JUST the minimum enhancement layer. There's really no way to verify outside of gear capable of debugging Dolby Vision signals, but Occam's Razor applies. The quality difference between FEL and MEL would probably require VERY specific circumstances to uncover and likely can't be seen on our TVs since they are 10bit panels anyways.

So, basically, my guess is there's a bug in Oppo's DV implementation that's allowing you to play all discs without display latency issues due to it always outputting the "low latency" DV profile or something similar that's stripping out the 12 bit data, giving the TV less to process.

All speculation, but it all fits the evidence. Regardless, it's frustrating for a lot of people. I wonder if there's something that could be put in the HDMI chain to alter the reporting of the TVs capabilities to force the low latency profile all the time.
It would be interesting to know how the new Pioneer UHD players performs with DV too. Not too many people have their hands on one, but hopefully someone will come along and tell us how it performs with DV.

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post #12410 of 12473 Old 01-31-2019, 10:56 AM
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I had some delay issues with my Yamaha 860. Now I have a Denon 8500 and all the delay issues went away with my Sony 700.
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post #12411 of 12473 Old 02-01-2019, 10:52 AM
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In the last 2 weeks, both my 55B6 and my 55C6 no longer will connect to my WiFi. Haven't changed a thing either firmware on the TV or anything on my router/modem. All is the same and yet no matter what I do, I cannot get either TV to connect. It sees the router and upon putting in the password, it won't connect. My other devices all connect over WiFi just fine. I tried making date/time manual, location manual, quick start off, and reset to initial settings. Nothing worked.

Any ideas what the hell is going on here? Super frustrating!
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post #12412 of 12473 Old 02-01-2019, 11:31 AM
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In the last 2 weeks, both my 55B6 and my 55C6 no longer will connect to my WiFi. Haven't changed a thing either firmware on the TV or anything on my router/modem. All is the same and yet no matter what I do, I cannot get either TV to connect. It sees the router and upon putting in the password, it won't connect. My other devices all connect over WiFi just fine. I tried making date/time manual, location manual, quick start off, and reset to initial settings. Nothing worked.

Any ideas what the hell is going on here? Super frustrating!
Have you tried rebooting the router and the tv? TV is easy to reboot. Unplug and depress power button on tv (not remote) for 20 to 25 seconds, and then plug tv back in. With router, unplug, wait about a minute then plug back in.

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post #12413 of 12473 Old 02-01-2019, 04:28 PM
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Have you tried rebooting the router and the tv? TV is easy to reboot. Unplug and depress power button on tv (not remote) for 20 to 25 seconds, and then plug tv back in. With router, unplug, wait about a minute then plug back in.


I’ve tried both as well. Still no dice.


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post #12414 of 12473 Old 02-01-2019, 06:08 PM
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I’ve tried both as well. Still no dice.


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I don't think these tv's can connect to the 5GHZ band. I wonder if your router got an update and is trying to connect devices only via 5GHZ instead of 2.4 and 5.

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post #12415 of 12473 Old 02-02-2019, 08:02 AM
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I don't think these tv's can connect to the 5GHZ band. I wonder if your router got an update and is trying to connect devices only via 5GHZ instead of 2.4 and 5.
Ahhh! I'll check into that and see. That sounds like it could be it since my various players (Sony X700, Oppo 203, and Apple TV) along with iphones/ipads all are still connecting just fine. Thanks for the tip! Now to see if I can find out what the router is doing. :-)
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post #12416 of 12473 Old 02-02-2019, 08:50 AM
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Well, I definitely can't afford a 203 now, lol. I'll just do without DV and Atmos together.
The new Panasonic players seen to be the go to units now.....
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post #12417 of 12473 Old 02-02-2019, 10:27 AM
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Need some advice. I am currently using a 55" LG E6 as my main TV in the lounge room.

I have been looking at getting the Samsung 55" UN7100 HDR TV for my bedroom.

But does anyone know if that TV is actually better than the LG E6, because then I would use that as the main and the E6 in the bedroom.

Btw, I PC game alot too.

Just look for your self.

I'd say to side by side them if at all possible, then see how they compare in the environment i/e OLED does a lot better in lower light, etc so if one room is much lighter than the other that might influence your decision.
At the end of the day, you should put them where they look best to YOU.
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post #12418 of 12473 Old 02-02-2019, 05:03 PM
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Speaking of 3D...just watched the movie Venom 3D...pretty darn good 3D. And that's on my LG 65UF8500 LED/LCD. Probably look even better on an Oled...

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post #12419 of 12473 Old 02-04-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by t1callahan View Post
My Digital Sound Out option under the Audio Out/ Optical/HDMI Arc menu is greyed out and defaulting to PCM. I can't get 5.1 out at all, weather through HDMI or even Optical connection. I have read that I should set the Digital Sound out to Auto to get 5.1, but no matter what I do, it won't allow me to do so. I have enabled SMTPLINk and tried various SMTPLINK- CEC settings, but this setting does not get enabled and nothing seems to help output 5.1. It would be nice to get the great Dolby Vision Picture, and 5.1 sound at the same time. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe I need to do a factory reset? but want to see if anyone else setting is greyed out first.
I noticed the same issue with my B6 this weekend--no idea when the set got scrambled. After much Googling and hair pulling, the only thing that worked was a factory reset.
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post #12420 of 12473 Old 02-05-2019, 05:06 PM
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Speaking of 3D...just watched the movie Venom 3D...pretty darn good 3D. And that's on my LG 65UF8500 LED/LCD. Probably look even better on an Oled...
Atmos and 3d was a treat with Venom. "baked at 450" for my pleasure. I enjoyed that movie a lot more than I thought I would innitially based on reviews. Just goes to show you timing is everything for theater releases.
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