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-   -   2016 LG OLEDs - G6, E6, C6, and B6 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2277258-2016-lg-oleds-g6-e6-c6-b6.html)

TuteTibiImperes 01-05-2016 07:01 PM

2016 LG OLEDs - G6, E6, C6, and B6
 
Didn't see a thread on these yet, but since they've been announced, here's the link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...-tvs/78306818/

The big news:

All apparently have the same picture quality, so you don't have to pay more for thin design or built-in speakers to get what really matters.

All have 10-bit panels.

All meet UHD Premium specs.

All support HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

The big differences all come down to curved vs flat and design, with the G6 and E6 having built-in Harman-Kardon sound bars, the G6 being a single pane of glass design, the C6 being curved, and the B6 being flat (the B6 also deletes 3D support).

The G6 is available in 77" and 65" sizes, the others appear to be available in 65" and 55" sizes.

Pictures:

G6 Series:

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium01.jpg

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium03.jpg

E6 Series:

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium06.jpg

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium03.jpg

C6 Series:

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium06.jpg

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium03.jpg

B6 Series:

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium06.jpg

http://www.lg.com/us/images/tvs/md05...y/medium03.jpg

scarabaeus 01-05-2016 07:34 PM

It's the curved C6 that does not have 3D. The B6 does still have it.

Correction, that was apparently a typo on the LG US website. It is the B6 without 3D.

boosted330 01-05-2016 07:52 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Hopefully picture quality is great across the board and I can just get a 65" flat with the worst sound for cheaper. Curious if they fixed any issues. The 9600 to 9500 was an improvement hopefully they finally cured some issues

Dianabol5mg 01-05-2016 11:09 PM

I see no 3D info in that link.

video_analysis 01-05-2016 11:29 PM

Try this link and select the 4 listed upcoming models for comparison: http://www.lg.com/us/compare/compare...tegory=/us/tvs

rogo 01-06-2016 01:12 AM

I addressed this a bit in the other thread, but I'll re-iterate it here.

1) LG does not intend to sell many (really hardly any) of the G6 or E6. They are statement pieces any will sell in minimal volumes at most.

2) This means there are no real plans to sell the 77 inch model this year.

3) The only models that will move the volume LG needs to lower costs are, therefore, the B6 and C6. They are apparently later in the calendar year. This -- to me -- means the production goals set last year are very unlikely to be achieved.

4) Curved is dying rapidly. Good riddance.

5) Eventually OLED will "democratize" videophile level picture quality, as many of us hoped back in the last decade. Hallelujah. Maybe that starts this year, but not likely until autumn.

6) In the meantime, there is sadly very little to see here.

Chronoptimist 01-06-2016 03:05 AM

Is anyone else concerned at the "10-bit panel and processing" statement?
Your processing should always be done with greater precision than your source material, and your desired output.
So with an 8-bit source you need at least 10-bit processing. With a 10-bit source you should have at least 12-bit processing.

The madVR video renderer on PC has the option to process video in 16-bit or 10-bit, and even if you have an 8-bit source the difference between the two can be quite noticeable in the near-black parts of the image if you're using 3DLUTs.

buzzard767 01-06-2016 04:16 AM

I'll be watching prices on the 65B6. If the 65EF9500 deficiencies are reduced or eliminated it could well fit my needs. Considering that the Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD sold for $5000 ($5700 inflation adjusted) in 2008 and that the LG OLED is much more display, the B6 may be a bargain for videophiles.

If the B6 meets expectations of quality and a price "around" $5k, I'm in.

Anyone wanna buy a 65VT60 professionally calibrated? How about a 65VT50? I'll likely be selling one or both by mid year....

I already have an LG 55EF9500 and it's phenomenal. I expect the 2016s will be even better. Time will tell. :)

slacker711 01-06-2016 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 40364674)
I addressed this a bit in the other thread, but I'll re-iterate it here.

1) LG does not intend to sell many (really hardly any) of the G6 or E6. They are statement pieces any will sell in minimal volumes at most.

2) This means there are no real plans to sell the 77 inch model this year.

3) The only models that will move the volume LG needs to lower costs are, therefore, the B6 and C6. They are apparently later in the calendar year. This -- to me -- means the production goals set last year are very unlikely to be achieved.

Why are you surprised (annoyed?) that LG is offering high-end models that are designed and priced for a very small minority? It seems like a fairly standard practice and releasing them prior to the mass market versions is the logical way to capture whatever demand exists at these prices.

Personally, I have no idea if this kind of branding exercise has much benefit, but like I said, almost everybody does it.

As for volumes, CNET says that the B and C series will be available later in the 1st half. As long as they are out by summer and hit the kind of price points that we have discussed to death, I dont see why a million units would be out of reach.

jimim 01-06-2016 06:35 AM

4 Attachment(s)
I'm still confused with one thing the G series always says HDR pro and Color Prime Plus. No mention of these two naming in the other lines (E and B), but everyone keeps saying same picture quality?

Do the E and B also feature this?

Cause if not wouldn't the picture quality be different?

nathanddrews 01-06-2016 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronoptimist (Post 40365450)
Is anyone else concerned at the "10-bit panel and processing" statement?

I would say that I am interested more than I am concerned. I'd like to see 12-bit or higher internal processing, but like you said, madVR can do its own processing to higher bit depths. My primary use case is playback from a HTPC, be it games or media, so I can already control the processing of content. I just need a 10-bit display that does 4K60 4:4:4 native input (1080p120 would be a bonus).

TuteTibiImperes 01-06-2016 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimim (Post 40368818)
I'm still confused with one thing the G series always says HDR pro and Color Prime Plus. No mention of these two naming in the other lines (E and B), but everyone keeps saying same picture quality?

Do the E and B also feature this?

Cause if not wouldn't the picture quality be different?

If you click on the details on the LG site for the B6 and C6 both list ColorPrime Pro and HDR Pro, they're just not listed in the 'compare' section, which doesn't look like it's been fully updated.

wardman1 01-06-2016 10:37 AM

I want to see the G6 77inch. To replace a Samsung 65" Plasma. Actually, a 77inch without a soundbar would be great too.

ALMA 01-06-2016 10:52 AM

No 3D on the B series. It´s a typo on the US site. C series has 3D. Picture quality is basically the same on all modells.




slowcarboost 01-06-2016 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALMA (Post 40378498)
No 3D on the B series. It´s a typo on the US site. C series has 3D. Picture quality is basically the same on all modells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9KucqWc7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIX2FoOaU7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1U4HB2FQE

Looks like I'd get the E series once it hits 5K from what we've heard about them so far.

North Jersey 01-06-2016 11:09 AM

I noticed the following comment to the CNET article on the G6:

Quote:

reality30000 2 hours ago
The issue with LG OLED 4K/ (8K scam) is that the subpar GLASS & Large Dot Screen Martix (come close to its screen to see it) are FLAWED.

Samsumg-Sony and Panasonic all have vaslty superior MATT type glass with little to no reflection and its dot size is very tiny, images even without the OLED often apprear smoother when closer to the TV.

OLED is the technology of NOW. But....if the finer details of the TV itself are poorly designed and inferior,

the user experience does indeed Suffer!!
http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-65g6/


Is that statement about the glass accurate?

rogo 01-06-2016 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowcarboost (Post 40379114)
Looks like I'd get the E series once it hits 5K from what we've heard about them so far.

Why do you want the E series? The design? The soundbar? The snob appeal?

slacker711 01-06-2016 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALMA (Post 40378498)
No 3D on the B series. It´s a typo on the US site. C series has 3D. Picture quality is basically the same on all modells.

It sounded to me like the interviewee was implying that the B series would be positioned below the C series. Maybe a $500 price delta?

Everything out by mid-May. Pretty good if they hit that date.

Dhalmo 01-06-2016 11:29 AM

I posted this over in the Vizio Reference series forum but this may be a more appropriate forum. I'm trying to get some insight from the AVS community:


In this CNET article, David Katzmaier states "LG didn't cite an actual brightness level in nits, but did tell us that they will hit the 540 nits (a unit of light output) required for UHD Alliance certification". UHD Alliance Certification and Dolby Vision requirements are not mutually inclusive. The UHD Alliance Premium logo for HDR compliance is given as follows:

"A combination of peak brightness and black level either: More than 1000 nits peak brightness and less than 0.05 nits black level OR more than 540 nits peak brightness and less than 0.0005 nits black level"

LG states Dobly Vision capability but obviously doesn't hit the peak brightness of the Samsung TVs at 1000 nits nor the Vizio Reference at 800 nits. How can an OLED be Dolby Vision capable? In the Dolby Vision whitepaper here they arrived at 10,000 nits for 90% of viewers to be satisfied with the HDR presented, with 4,000 nits used for color grading on a Dolby reference monitor. This is then transformed by algorithm to a nit range a TV is capable of. The words chosen by Dolby here were: "After the trim pass has been approved, the colorist exports the images with metadata. The metadata generated to create the 100-nit grade can be used to render the HDR master on displays, which may offer a wide performance range. A 600-nit TV will look great, a 1200-nit TV will look even better—all referencing the same metadata and HDR reference images."

With this in mind, with the 540 nits of the 2016 LG OLEDs meet the "great" criteria for Dolby Vision, as apposed to the 1200-nit "look even better" from an LCD? Will the true black of the OLED simply make this point moot?

I've discounted Samsungs until they decide to support Dolby Vision, which I believe to be the front runner in the standards mini-war now that Netflix and most of the major production studios has committed fully to it. I prefer OLED to Quantum Dots despite the uniformity issues discussed at AVS, which the LG engineers claim has been improved upon in 2016 models.

Thoughts, opinions?

gtataryn 01-06-2016 11:31 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Per the you tube video, the new oleds have achieved a nominal brightness of 600 nits which is a 50% increase over the 2015 EF models. Great news, but sad to hear we can't get the B6 models with 3D. I wonder what that premium will be to upgrade to the E6.

video_analysis 01-06-2016 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALMA (Post 40378498)
No 3D on the B series. It´s a typo on the US site. C series has 3D. Picture quality is basically the same on all modells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j9KucqWc7w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIX2FoOaU7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1U4HB2FQE

That's frustrating. So you have to buy the high-end or suffer with a curve to get 3D. It would appear they are engaging in a phase-out. That's a shame because I wanted to experience passive 3D in glorious 77" at a price (well) below $10k.

dan92075 01-06-2016 12:08 PM

MSRP just posted on LG website for 65E6P is $6999 (compared to $5999 for last year 65EF9500)

Note this unit includes the fancy soundbar implying the TV itself is being priced roughly the same

Not too bad starting point. .

TuteTibiImperes 01-06-2016 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan92075 (Post 40381866)
MSRP just posted on LG website for 65E6P is $6999 (compared to $5999 for last year 65EF9500)

Note this unit includes the fancy soundbar implying the TV itself is being priced roughly the same

Not too bad starting point. .

That's promising. LG implied that the G6 and E6 would be priced at a considerable premium over the C6 and B6. If those can come in $4,000 or less LG may have trouble keeping up with demand.

slowcarboost 01-06-2016 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 40379562)
Why do you want the E series? The design? The soundbar? The snob appeal?

I want the 3D so the B would be out. I'd rather not have the soundbar if I had a choice.

fafrd 01-06-2016 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogo (Post 40379562)
Why do you want the E series? The design? The soundbar? The snob appeal?

After experiencing passive 3D on the 65EF9500, I would be willing to pay more for that capability.

The fact that LG elected to withhold 3B from the flat base model is unfortunate, but it means that if I was interested in a 2016 OLED, the E-Series would be the model I was focused on.

I predict that the 65EF9500 will end up with a street price around $4K when LG decides to begin selling them in earnest again, and the B-Series is likely to be at similar street pricing by the time LG wants to begin selling those in any real volume as well.

The E-Series has already been priced at a $1000 premium to the EF9500 (MSRP of $7000 versus $6000), so if/when LG gets serious about selling the E-Series TVs through Best Buy and Amazon, they will probably be street priced closer to $5K than $7K...

$1000 premium for 3D and premium sound is just on the edge of realistic (or that same premium for Dolby Vision, 99% DCI-P3, and 50% increase in peak brightness).

At $1000 MSRP, the Signature G-Series with its folding base does seem to be a TV conceived purely for snob appeal (like the Vizio Reference Series ;)), but at $7000 MSRP coming down to $5000 street, the E-Series seems to be the Enthusiast model aimed at 'mainstream' videophiles who took the plunge or considered taking the plunge on the 55" and 65" OLEDs in 2015.

And the B-Series seems to be a new Base-tier of 4K OLEDs in the lineup intended to temp those who might have been cosideriing a 1080p OLED to instead step up to a basic 4K model.

I actually think it is a pretty well-conceived lineup (despite the fact that I am personally dissapointed by the decision to withhold 3D from the Base model :().

greenland 01-06-2016 01:25 PM

Do I understand this correctly:

LG will not have a flat HDR OLED TV with 3D, but without the soundbar feature, in their 2016 line?

If so, that is down right stupid and unfair to the consumers.

Kain 01-06-2016 01:29 PM

What are the dimensions of the 77" G6?

slowcarboost 01-06-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenland (Post 40385026)
Do I understand this correctly:

LG will not have a flat HDR OLED TV with 3D, but without the soundbar feature, in their 2016 line?

If so, that is down right stupid and unfair to the consumers.

You are correct. What is an even dumber move is Sony releasing their only FALD tv in one size...75 inch...for the 2nd year in a row!

TuteTibiImperes 01-06-2016 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenland (Post 40385026)
Do I understand this correctly:

LG will not have a flat HDR OLED TV with 3D, but without the soundbar feature, in their 2016 line?

If so, that is down right stupid and unfair to the consumers.

I think that it's pretty cool that they're offering as much differentiation as they are. You can get curved or flat, pay for speakers and style or not, and it won't effect the PQ one bit.

How big a deal is 3D these days? I saw Gravity in the theaters in 3D and thought it was cool, but since then I've just been seeing the non-3D version of things. It's sort of neat, but not 'I'm willing to wear glasses while I watch a movie' neat.

TuteTibiImperes 01-06-2016 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowcarboost (Post 40385986)
You are correct. What is an even dumber move is Sony releasing their only FALD tv in one size...75 inch...for the 2nd year in a row!

Sony eschewing Dolby Vision and UHD Premium certifications are bigger issues IMO.

Your options for Dolby Vision are now:

A ridiculously overpriced Vizio Reference series

A 65" set from TCL that looks to be a decent value, but it's still Chinese, hard to trust it

The LG OLEDs.

Getting the UHD Premium cert and implementing both DV and HDR10 has brought these to the top of my list. I would've considered the new Sony, Panasonic, or Sharp if they'd done DV, but since they decided to cut corners there, LG looks like the way to go.


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