2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 08:52 PM
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Is De-Blur @ 10 and De-Judder @ 0 still the best setting for 1080p/60 material without SOE?

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post #4142 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Is De-Blur @ 10 and De-Judder @ 0 still the best setting for 1080p/60 material without SOE?

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There is no right answer to your question as it is completely subjective.

I suggest leaving it off until, or if, you find something that causes motion issues. Minor adjustment, and see if that helped. Rinse and repeat until you're happy.
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post #4143 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryprod View Post
There is no right answer to your question as it is completely subjective.

I suggest leaving it off until, or if, you find something that causes motion issues. Minor adjustment, and see if that helped. Rinse and repeat until you're happy.
OK. I was under the impression that the User setting with De-Blur @ 10 was always advised for maximum line resolution (600 according to CNET) and De-Judder is the setting that is subjective with 0 having no affect on motion and anything above that introducing increasing degrees of SOE but possibly needed depending on material or preference.

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post #4144 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 09:46 PM
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Yes.
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post #4145 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 10:24 PM
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i have x box s and 55c6 tv...
What is the best settings for hdr on x box s for uhd and for games that support hdr?like forza horizen 3?
anyone?
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post #4146 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
OK. I was under the impression that the User setting with De-Blur @ 10 was always advised for maximum line resolution (600 according to CNET) and De-Judder is the setting that is subjective with 0 having no affect on motion and anything above that introducing increasing degrees of SOE but possibly needed depending on material or preference.
Actually, I think just activating TruMotion (even with settings at 0) will automatically provide motion resolution of 650.
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post #4147 of 28460 Old 09-27-2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Actually, I think just activating TruMotion (even with settings at 0) will automatically provide motion resolution of 650.
Re-reading rtings review that's what it sounds like also.

So what exactly does De-Blur do to the picture?

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post #4148 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 03:26 AM
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That's a good question. Someone provided an exposition here recently, but I don't recall the specifics. They don't really get into the specifics of such in the reviews (i.e. at HDTVTest).
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post #4149 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 04:49 AM
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All frame interpolation schemes such as TruMotion add unwanted artifacts (halos, stutter, etc.). It does not matter what settings you use. Even at 0,0 there are visible artifacts with any complex motion and/or backgrounds. I would leave it at off and live with the LCD style 300-line motion resolution. It's the lesser of the evils.
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post #4150 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
All frame interpolation schemes such as TruMotion add unwanted artifacts (halos, stutter, etc.). It does not matter what settings you use. Even at 0,0 there are visible artifacts with any complex motion and/or backgrounds. I would leave it at off and live with the LCD style 300-line motion resolution. It's the lesser of the evils.
Thanks!

I'll keep it simple and leave if off.

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post #4151 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 07:12 AM
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Also, consider if what you watch is primarily 24fps material. That material, by nature, isn't going to have a lot of temporal resolution during fast movement, so I don't know that the display is actually the limiting factor.

If I were guess about what deblur is doing, it's likely doing some tricks with brightness (I don't think it's doing full on strobing) to minimize the effect of sample and hold.

The issue is how the human eye tracks motion. We want to see it proceed along a linear line. That's not possible with lower FPS material. Sample and hold means it jumps from one position to another as the frame iterates. It's a bit exaggerated on an OLED since the pixel response is instant. On an LCD, there's at least a bit of blur in the transition, so that helps trick the mind into thinking the motion is linear.

If the display shows the image for less time for each frame and inserts black in-between, your brain fills in the gaps and the motion is smoother without frame interpolation going on in the TV. Now, I don't think that the LG OLEDs do full on strobing by insertion of a full black frame, but it's possible they may be letting the brightness of each frame fall off a bit between them for much of the same effect.

However, you can get artifacts with this if the pulse rate of the brigtness doesn't align perfectly with the framerate of the motion. You can see this would be a particular challenge with cable when you have 24fps material inside a 60p or 60i carrier.

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post #4152 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
Also, consider if what you watch is primarily 24fps material. That material, by nature, isn't going to have a lot of temporal resolution during fast movement, so I don't know that the display is actually the limiting factor.

If I were guess about what deblur is doing, it's likely doing some tricks with brightness (I don't think it's doing full on strobing) to minimize the effect of sample and hold.

The issue is how the human eye tracks motion. We want to see it proceed along a linear line. That's not possible with lower FPS material. Sample and hold means it jumps from one position to another as the frame iterates. It's a bit exaggerated on an OLED since the pixel response is instant. On an LCD, there's at least a bit of blur in the transition, so that helps trick the mind into thinking the motion is linear.

If the display shows the image for less time for each frame and inserts black in-between, your brain fills in the gaps and the motion is smoother without frame interpolation going on in the TV. Now, I don't think that the LG OLEDs do full on strobing by insertion of a full black frame, but it's possible they may be letting the brightness of each frame fall off a bit between them for much of the same effect.

However, you can get artifacts with this if the pulse rate of the brigtness doesn't align perfectly with the framerate of the motion. You can see this would be a particular challenge with cable when you have 24fps material inside a 60p or 60i carrier.
Thanks for the good write up. I am one of those people who "like"/don't mind the motion of true 24fps for movies (I try to keep things as close to reference as possible).

It's improper reproduction of 24fps material inside 60i/p content that sometimes bothers me. When I had my EF9500, the biggest offender was the first few episodes of season one of Lost on Netflix. It was very jumpy due to a lot of scenes involving running without any Trumotion.

What's weird is I never noticed any issues on my EC9300... probably because I didn't know back then to look for motion issues lol. Psychology plays a big part in this hobby.

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post #4153 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
It's improper reproduction of 24fps material inside 60i/p content that sometimes bothers me.
Bingo.

There's a lot of talk about judder generically with judder just being a catch all for "not silky smooth motion." This wasn't always the case when it was referring to displays. Judder used to more specifically refer to motion artifacts caused by the 3:2 process.

I'm fine with 24fps motion on this TV. It's different than my 55ST50 or my W900A, but not inherently worse (or better.) 24fps isn't going to have silky smooth wide angle pans, there just aren't enough frames there to do it. However, when displayed with the proper cadence, it has CONSISTENT pans. For me, that's far more important. A lower FPS source doesn't bother me so much as long as it's a presented at a constant cadence. 24fps content looks very film like on this TV. Perhaps it doesn't look quite as film like as it did on my 55ST50 due to the nature of sample and hold, but it looks more like film than my W900A due to the instant pixel response. I saw "Hateful Eight" as the 70mm roadshow and it's been years since I've seen a movie on actual film and I was actually surprised by the level of flicker and 'judder' in pans. But such is the nature of film and is part of the experience.

Now, 24fps in a 60p/60i container is a sore spot for me. The W900A had a setting called MotionFlow TrueCinema which was fantastic. It was exceedingly good at reconstructing 24p cadence from 720p60 or 1080i60 content. I find this very important because inconsistent cadence is something that sticks out very badly for me. Having every other frame persist on screen just a little longer causes those "not fully smooth but consistent pans" to turn into "jumpy" pans.

I find that if I pass native 720p60 or 1080i60 to the TV from my TiVo, the TV handles it pretty well. If I let my TiVo upscale to 4k60 (which has a subtle increase in detail), motion isn't as smooth. It's most apparent on scrolling credits at the end of movies. I see similar things with my SHIELD. If set it at 4k60, there's a subtle hitch going on that's telltale 3:2 issues but if I force it to 24hz output everything is smooth.

What I haven't experimented with much is feeding it 1080p60 signals from the TiVo or shield to see if it's only the 4k upscaling part that's tripping up reversing 3:2. I think I do recall seeing the issue with 1080p output from my Roku, but it may not have been as bad as 4k60 or it may have been a source issue.

So, there are workarounds and even when the issue is there it isn't enough to make me write off the other advantages of the TV. But if I could graft MotionFlow on to this TV, I would do it in a heartbeat. Similarly, if Sony starting buying these panels from LG for their own TVs, I would seriously consider trading in.

It really sucks that we went clean slate with new standards and didn't make 1080p24/720p24 part of it from the beginning. The vast majority primetime content out there is 24fps, yet we're stuck with these holdovers from CRT days for transport signals. What's more egregious is that passthrough 24p is so rare on streaming devices. My TiVo will do it for Netflix, HBO Go, Hulu, and Amazon, but every other device just wants to upscale everything to 1080p60 or 4kp60.

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post #4154 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 09:56 AM
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B6 Audio setting for center channel

Hi
Does anyone know if the B6 can be configured to use the internal speaker as a center channel only?
I want to get rid of my large center channel speaker and configure the B6 speaker to be set up as my center channel.
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post #4155 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 10:18 AM
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Some of us in the UK (well me) have been having Micro stutter / frame skip issues with the B6 and specifically 4K UDH HDR blu ray over HDMI, for some time.


It seems that a combination of more people with players (mainly new xbox one s') and a recent firmware which has made the issue worse than it used to be, now has many in the UK complaining about the issue.


Had a quick scoot on the last few pages on here, but no mention, is this not an issue in the US with US firmware?
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post #4156 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 10:35 AM
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I have not seen any frame stutter issues with any 24fps material. I have the Philips UHD blu-ray player and it's been flawless.

Is it primarily the Xbone S? UHD playback seems to be a crapshoot on those. There's severe disc compatibility issues with it as well.
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post #4157 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 11:48 AM
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greetings. will let you know in a couple days. gave up on vizio p...the banding finally got me after all the issues. got a 65b6p from cleveland plasma which is at the last stop and should be delivered in the next couple days. i'll use nhl15 and gran turismo 5 on ps3 as the test subjects. will be able to post general impressions across P65, old 37" vizio vx37; and the new oled.
Dude this would be amazing...I really want the B6, but the input lag might be the deal breaker. The P50 is a great set...for what I paid. Its great for gaming, and movies but the FALD is very quirky, as well as banding and washed out sides at times. LIke if something it suppose to be black it has a purple tinge to it. Weird. Anyway...

Is it true the B6 uses a different processor than the C6 and E6? I have seen it mentioned quite a bit but with no real concrete answer. If the B6 processor is worse, doesn't that make he picture worse and response time worse compared to the C6 and other models?
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post #4158 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 11:52 AM
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I play a ton of games via PC ... mostly Overwatch these days and it looks fantastic!

I have had absolutely no issues at all playing games.
That's a very bold statement...I don't play Overwatch but my brother does and that is definitely a game you need to have a quick response too. So that's very good news...maybe the input lag isn't as affected as people think since pixel response is extremely good on the OLEDs. If the 55E6 falls below 2800$ then that will be my choice BUT if not and the input lag of the B6 has not been fixed, I may have to cut my preference issue of having a flat set, and grab a C6 curved set. Though the con would be curved, I gain better input lag and 3D at the same price of the B6.
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post #4159 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 12:26 PM
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I game a ton on my TV's (mostly FPS) and must not be prone to input lag because even when I had a projector room with a JVC that was near 100ms input lag I could still play Halo, Battlefield, Mass Effect, Destiny, et al with absolutely no perceivable affects.

So the difference between 30 and 60ms input lag is laughable to me, as in I don't care lol.

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post #4160 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MeanDorris View Post
Some of us in the UK (well me) have been having Micro stutter / frame skip issues with the B6 and specifically 4K UDH HDR blu ray over HDMI, for some time.


It seems that a combination of more people with players (mainly new xbox one s') and a recent firmware which has made the issue worse than it used to be, now has many in the UK complaining about the issue.


Had a quick scoot on the last few pages on here, but no mention, is this not an issue in the US with US firmware?
You are not alone - UK here and I even have frame skips with the in-built Netflix software, both 4K material and regular HD. It's not typical 24fps judder, it's literally frame-skipping, which if I rewind and play the scene again, is not repeatable. Oddly, playing back Netflix using my PS4 is absolutely fine, so I'm guessing it's a software issue in my case.
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post #4161 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 12:46 PM
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Thanks!

I'll keep it simple and leave if off.
Nothing wrong with experimenting, IMO. The ensuing artifacts may be less irritating than the inherent judder. You won't know until you try.
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post #4162 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 12:50 PM
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Thanks!

I'll keep it simple and leave if off.

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You really need to experiment with TruMotion on & off. You are the owner of the display and only you can determine what is or is not objectionable. Most owners have few issues with TruMotion and when used in a not too aggressive manner.
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post #4163 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 12:52 PM
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Hi
Does anyone know if the B6 can be configured to use the internal speaker as a center channel only?
I want to get rid of my large center channel speaker and configure the B6 speaker to be set up as my center channel.
I don't believe that is possible, but even it was I don't think you'd want to do it. The minimal sound you'd get out of the "center" speaker wouldn't even come close to basic bookshelf speakers, much less a better surround system. I have a sound bar because I couldn't even watch the news with the TV speakers alone. So "normal" tv uses the sound bar and movies and better entertainment use the full surround system with a dedicated center speaker.
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post #4164 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by turts85 View Post
That's a very bold statement...I don't play Overwatch but my brother does and that is definitely a game you need to have a quick response too. So that's very good news...maybe the input lag isn't as affected as people think since pixel response is extremely good on the OLEDs. If the 55E6 falls below 2800$ then that will be my choice BUT if not and the input lag of the B6 has not been fixed, I may have to cut my preference issue of having a flat set, and grab a C6 curved set. Though the con would be curved, I gain better input lag and 3D at the same price of the B6.

I've honestly haven't noticed one bit of lag. Granted, I am running a very powerful computer ... still, I am destroying in the game.

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post #4165 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 03:04 PM
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What, if anything, can output HDR from a GeForce 1080 to a 2016 LG?
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[QUOTE=mmminez;47111345]What, if anything, can output HDR from a GeForce 1080 to a 2016 LG?[/QUOTE

Well, it can output 4K at 60Hz. Not sure if the 1080 has HDMI 2.0b though. And you need that for HDR. Everything I've read so far says it's really hard (if not impossible) right now to get that to work from a PC.
Microsoft is supposed to be coming out with an update next year that'll make it easier
https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-br...-windows-year/

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post #4167 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 04:05 PM
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When I go to best buy I know what I want already and ask for it. If someone tries to shift me to something else, I politely say I'm not interested. The mistake people make is talking to a salesman when out 'window shopping'. Don't talk to them then. Research, look, decide, then use them to buy, period. When the conversation comes up on 4k hdmi cables, tell them you know monoprice.com.
I have only two questions for salesmen: 1/ can I have the remote? and 2/ will you price match this?
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post #4168 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 04:31 PM
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Dude this would be amazing...I really want the B6, but the input lag might be the deal breaker.
A colleague of ours games all the time on the B6P and has very little complaints.......
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post #4169 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 04:34 PM
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What, if anything, can output HDR from a GeForce 1080 to a 2016 LG?
Calman Dolby Vision test patterns maybe?
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post #4170 of 28460 Old 09-28-2016, 05:48 PM
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Has anyone purchased from TV Superstores.com They have the OLED65E6P for $3,029. They have no rating on google search.
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