2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 140 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4171 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
If I were guess about what deblur is doing, it's likely doing some tricks with brightness (I don't think it's doing full on strobing) to minimize the effect of sample and hold.
Nope. I recorded various LG OLEDs over the years using a high-speed (1000 fps) camera. There is zero DFI or BFI in any mode. It's 100% sample-and-hold at 120Hz with various degrees of motion interpolation.

I believe de-blur is intended for 60fps content and de-judder for 24 fps content. That way you can fine tune how much frame/motion interpolation you're willing to live with for each type of content. The problem is that the algorithm that decided if you're watching film or video is not 100% accurate.

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Bingo.
What's more egregious is that passthrough 24p is so rare on streaming devices. My TiVo will do it for Netflix, HBO Go, Hulu, and Amazon, but every other device just wants to upscale everything to 1080p60 or 4kp60.
I have Tivos as well. Do you get perfect 23.976 pass-through from those streaming services or do you occasionally see frame skipping/repeating on long panning camera shots? I definitely see some issues with my Roamio and Bolt. It's not 100% smooth all the time. Makes me wonder if there is some kind of redundant 24->60->24 fps conversion going on somewhere in the chain. It's also not smooth with pass-through disabled (HDMI outputting 59.94Hz) so the 3:2 repeat cycle is not 100% consistent. Could be my displays. I'm not a huge streaming fan so have not done in-depth investigation of the cause.
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post #4172 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 06:35 PM
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Is there a break-in period for the C6 before calibrating? As in, will colors or white balance drift more during the first x amount of hours before settling down?

Or a number of manual comp cycles to run first?

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post #4173 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
OK. I was under the impression that the User setting with De-Blur @ 10 was always advised for maximum line resolution (600 according to CNET) and De-Judder is the setting that is subjective with 0 having no affect on motion and anything above that introducing increasing degrees of SOE but possibly needed depending on material or preference.

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As a general rule of thump I find leaving TruMotion off for OTA/Cable/Satellite sources and engaging it (De-Judder 0/1/2, De-Blur 10) for BD/streaming sources usually works well for me. But your mileage may vary.

Looking forward to your observations since this is the model I've been coveting.

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post #4174 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 07:20 PM
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Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a new 4K TV and the C6 model is a very likely candidate. I tried to search the forum but couldn't find an answer as to whether or not there is going to be a flat version of the C6 launched soon? I'd drop down to the B6 but i want 3D, the D6 is slightly out of my price range.

Many thanks.
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post #4175 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pottypotsworth View Post
Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a new 4K TV and the C6 model is a very likely candidate. I tried to search the forum but couldn't find an answer as to whether or not there is going to be a flat version of the C6 launched soon? I'd drop down to the B6 but i want 3D, the D6 is slightly out of my price range.

Many thanks.
Nope. You need to fork over the cash for an E6 if you want flat 3D.

And preliminary theories point towards 3D possibly being dropped from all models for 2017.

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post #4176 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pottypotsworth View Post
Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a new 4K TV and the C6 model is a very likely candidate. I tried to search the forum but couldn't find an answer as to whether or not there is going to be a flat version of the C6 launched soon? I'd drop down to the B6 but i want 3D, the D6 is slightly out of my price range.

Many thanks.
Well, the 2017 CES is in 3 months. That will probably be the earliest you can find out with any certainty.

I'll just say the curve on the C6 is more subtle than the Sammys.

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post #4177 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 08:13 PM
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Seen lots of post from non-owners worrying about B6 gaming lag, yet every owner post I've read thus far has stated they're not seeing issues.

PS4 here and playing Overwatch, Destiny, Lego Marvel (kids), and fighting games and have never noticed and lag issues.

Coincidence that we are all insensitive to it?
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post #4178 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryprod View Post
Seen lots of post from non-owners worrying about B6 gaming lag, yet every owner post I've read thus far has stated they're not seeing issues.

PS4 here and playing Overwatch, Destiny, Lego Marvel (kids), and fighting games and have never noticed and lag issues.

Coincidence that we are all insensitive to it?
Again, I can't help but laugh when someone raises cane about a set having 50ms input lag instead of 40ms or bragging their K/D improves because of a 10ms difference.

100ms+ never impeded me any on my JVC RS4910. And I never ever use game mode.

But I digress

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post #4179 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Nope. I recorded various LG OLEDs over the years using a high-speed (1000 fps) camera. There is zero DFI or BFI in any mode. It's 100% sample-and-hold at 120Hz with various degrees of motion interpolation.

I believe de-blur is intended for 60fps content and de-judder for 24 fps content. That way you can fine tune how much frame/motion interpolation you're willing to live with for each type of content. The problem is that the algorithm that decided if you're watching film or video is not 100% accurate.
Maybe it is jut for 60fps content then. Honestly, I haven't able to notice an difference between having deblur on or off and I mostly watch 24fps content (just in 60p/i containers.)

Dejudder however, I can't even use it on 1. Even 1 has too much SOE for me.

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I have Tivos as well. Do you get perfect 23.976 pass-through from those streaming services or do you occasionally see frame skipping/repeating on long panning camera shots? I definitely see some issues with my Roamio and Bolt. It's not 100% smooth all the time. Makes me wonder if there is some kind of redundant 24->60->24 fps conversion going on somewhere in the chain. It's also not smooth with pass-through disabled (HDMI outputting 59.94Hz) so the 3:2 repeat cycle is not 100% consistent. Could be my displays. I'm not a huge streaming fan so have not done in-depth investigation of the cause.
I've never really noticed any issue. It mostly looks like blu-ray content to me as far as motion goes.
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post #4180 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 09:54 PM
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I know I'm having a brain fart but this is my first smart tv. How in the world do you get sound to come from the internal netflix app/youtube ect on the LG?? Whenever I load netflix, the picture changes but the sound from my directv continues to play. Do I need an optical cable?
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post #4181 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 10:29 PM
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I know I'm having a brain fart but this is my first smart tv. How in the world do you get sound to come from the internal netflix app/youtube ect on the LG?? Whenever I load netflix, the picture changes but the sound from my directv continues to play. Do I need an optical cable?
Don't know. How are you listening? Through the tv directly or via external speakers?
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post #4182 of 28467 Old 09-28-2016, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Do you get perfect 23.976 pass-through from those streaming services or do you occasionally see frame skipping/repeating on long panning camera shots? I definitely see some issues with my Roamio and Bolt. It's not 100% smooth all the time. Makes me wonder if there is some kind of redundant 24->60->24 fps conversion going on somewhere in the chain. It's also not smooth with pass-through disabled (HDMI outputting 59.94Hz) so the 3:2 repeat cycle is not 100% consistent. Could be my displays. I'm not a huge streaming fan so have not done in-depth investigation of the cause.
If I set my HTPC to directly output perfect 23.976 I get no stutters, however if I use the in-built Netflix app, then I get occasional frame drops throughout a movie. I'm guessing because they are pumping out 24fps instead of 23.976.
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post #4183 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 12:52 AM
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Ugh I need a post count of 5 to post images, I need some help on the blocky dark scenes I'm getting with my C6.

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post #4184 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 01:02 AM
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Why do the blacks look so bad in 4k? Here are a couple of images. Same source material.

4k @60Hz with YCbCr 4:2:0


And here is 1080p @60Hz with Full Dynamic range and RGB


Both with the same picture settings.

If I use the Plex app built in to the TV then I get the same result as the 4k one.

The source material is Blade 2 in 1080p, but I have tried even 4k material such as Mad Max and it's the same story there too!. TV is calibrated with the settings from the YouTube
But using Warm1 setting instead.

I've tried all the picture modes it always does it.

It also does this blocky mess on HD channels from my Vrigin TiVo box. Btw I own the C6. Tbh it makes it pretty unpleasant to watch and if the 1080 setting looks better then why did I bother with 4k? Is it a colour limitation with 4k vs FullHD? My Sony KDL55W905 never did this.

Any advice is appreciated.

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post #4185 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 01:12 AM
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Sorry I meant to say that I was using the Nvidia Shield TV and the TV was of course upscaling the picture in the 1080p version.

Can colours not go as deep or something? I noticed loss of detail in the 1080p image but I'd rather that than have all that blocky noise.

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post #4186 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Nope. You need to fork over the cash for an E6 if you want flat 3D.

And preliminary theories point towards 3D possibly being dropped from all models for 2017.

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Many thanks for the reply, that's interesting to hear that 3D might be dropped entirely.

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Well, the 2017 CES is in 3 months. That will probably be the earliest you can find out with any certainty.

I'll just say the curve on the C6 is more subtle than the Sammys.
Thanks also for replying, admittedly I am yet to see a C6 in real life yet, so i shall check it out and see how the curve comes across.

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If I set my HTPC to directly output perfect 23.976 I get no stutters, however if I use the in-built Netflix app, then I get occasional frame drops throughout a movie. I'm guessing because they are pumping out 24fps instead of 23.976.
If you don't mind me asking, Gary, what HTPC are you using? I have Plex (with display mode switching) running on a dedicated Windows computer through my AVR then into the TV to display true 24fps. Nearly all my content is 1080p 24 (23.976) and i'd hate to spend all this money on a C6 to find that all the movies and shows I have enjoyed on my ageing Sony 55NX720p now look like crap with judder

Many thanks.
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post #4187 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 07:03 AM
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Dude this would be amazing...I really want the B6, but the input lag might be the deal breaker. The P50 is a great set...for what I paid. Its great for gaming, and movies but the FALD is very quirky, as well as banding and washed out sides at times. LIke if something it suppose to be black it has a purple tinge to it. Weird. Anyway...

Is it true the B6 uses a different processor than the C6 and E6? I have seen it mentioned quite a bit but with no real concrete answer. If the B6 processor is worse, doesn't that make he picture worse and response time worse compared to the C6 and other models?
got my 65b6 yesterday afternoon - initial reaction...no banding. after many many P's with banding the first one i got appears to have no banding - there was hockey and soccer on yesterday and no dse/banding. holy crap thiis tv is beauftiful. a clear step up from the p, clear. was ableto grab the controller for a few minutes on nhl and i didnt notice anything- will play a little this weekend and report back, but inital signs are good. i dont know man - things looks good so far. just gotta dial in the motion settings - its arranged a little differently. we may need a p vs oled specific thread.
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post #4188 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 07:17 AM
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If you don't mind me asking, Gary, what HTPC are you using? I have Plex (with display mode switching) running on a dedicated Windows computer through my AVR then into the TV to display true 24fps. Nearly all my content is 1080p 24 (23.976) and i'd hate to spend all this money on a C6 to find that all the movies and shows I have enjoyed on my ageing Sony 55NX720p now look like crap with judder

Many thanks.
It's just an old PC I constructed ages ago from parts. Not a particular 'model' or anything. If the worst comes to the worse, you can change the video output settings in the driver settings of your card anyway, depending on the GPU you have in yours.

I can get the same results by using my Dune Network player - that too allows you to fine-tune the frame rate of the output video, to a precise value - again, setting it to 23.976 and playback is 100% perfect with no frame drops. If I leave it outputting 50/60 and leave the TV to do the conversion, then again I get frames dropping - it's not noticeable during slower scenes, but say for example, you filmed a 90 minute movie of just long slow, panning shots across a landscape, I am pretty sure the frame drops would occur at a steady, set time.

My guess is, the TV is better able to deal with pure 23.976 sources, rather than the flat 24Hz dished out by a lot of media players. That, or the 24fps option in itself, is flawed.
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post #4189 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Garry Allen View Post
It's just an old PC I constructed ages ago from parts. Not a particular 'model' or anything. If the worst comes to the worse, you can change the video output settings in the driver settings of your card anyway, depending on the GPU you have in yours.

I can get the same results by using my Dune Network player - that too allows you to fine-tune the frame rate of the output video, to a precise value - again, setting it to 23.976 and playback is 100% perfect with no frame drops. If I leave it outputting 50/60 and leave the TV to do the conversion, then again I get frames dropping - it's not noticeable during slower scenes, but say for example, you filmed a 90 minute movie of just long slow, panning shots across a landscape, I am pretty sure the frame drops would occur at a steady, set time.

My guess is, the TV is better able to deal with pure 23.976 sources, rather than the flat 24Hz dished out by a lot of media players. That, or the 24fps option in itself, is flawed.
Ok, make sense. Thanks for taking the time to type it all out.
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post #4190 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 08:27 AM
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Many thanks for the reply, that's interesting to hear that 3D might be dropped entirely.
With the introduction of HDR and ramp up of 4k players/discs, 3D is most likely not long for the market (note, I am not saying 3D is useless or a gimmick...just stating the current state of the market). Just look at the top manufacturers and see how 3D is being offered less and less each year on models (all 2015 LG OLED's had 3D, now their "entry level" flat OLED does not have it). Or better yet the fact that Vizio is not offering it on their sets (which target the average, mass market segments) should speak volumes to the path 3D is going down.
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post #4191 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 08:34 AM
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With the introduction of HDR and ramp up of 4k players/discs, 3D is most likely not long for the market (note, I am not saying 3D is useless or a gimmick...just stating the current state of the market). Just look at the top manufacturers and see how 3D is being offered less and less each year on models (all 2015 LG OLED's had 3D, now their "entry level" flat OLED does not have it). Or better yet the fact that Vizio is not offering it on their sets (which target the average, mass market segments) should speak volumes to the path 3D is going down.
Yeah, it does seem like the manufacturers are phasing it out across the board. It surprises a somewhat layman as myself as I would have thought the cost to just include 3D would be negligible now-a-days.
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post #4192 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 08:56 AM
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Yeah, it does seem like the manufacturers are phasing it out across the board. It surprises a somewhat layman as myself as I would have thought the cost to just include 3D would be negligible now-a-days.
My hunch (and this is based on absolutely no factual articles/statements/industry news) is that everyone involved in HDR/4k (the TV manufacturers and movie studios) want to start and keep the UHD Bluray release "simple". I don't see them wanting to carry 3D along for the ride but rather just have a clean slate and go forward from there. Kind of like the Xbox One and PS4 dropping universal backwards compatibility and instead allowing games to slowly be added to a backwards compatible collection after the fact.
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post #4193 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 08:58 AM
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My hunch (and this is based on absolutely no factual articles/statements/industry news) is that everyone involved in HDR/4k (the TV manufacturers and movie studios) want to start and keep the UHD Bluray release "simple". I don't see them wanting to carry 3D along for the ride but rather just have a clean slate and go forward from there. Kind of like the Xbox One and PS4 dropping universal backwards compatibility and instead allowing games to slowly be added to a backwards compatible collection after the fact.
Certainly a sound idea, especially considering they also have to get the message across about HDR vs Dolby Vision, HDMI 1.4 vs 2.0 vs 2.0b and what have you.
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post #4194 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 09:06 AM
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Certainly a sound idea, especially considering they also have to get the message across about HDR vs Dolby Vision, HDMI 1.4 vs 2.0 vs 2.0b and what have you.
Yea. IMO, the uncertainty of static vs. dynamic HDR10 and whether dynamic HDR10 will require an HDMI hardware upgrade is the biggest hurdle I foresee going forward. If you make this huge push for all these new HDR TV's and players and then tell everyone that the ultimate goal for the HDR format requires you to upgrade already...that's a no go for the mass market. It's hard enough to sell a new HDMI standard/the need to upgrade when a brand new format (like 3D or 4k) is released...so good luck telling people they need to upgrade for an incremental improvement such as going from static to dynamic HDR10.

While I am not a PC gamer/power user, I have started to agree with the big PC fans on these forums in that HDMI is the Achilles heel of consumer TV's due to the constant need for upgrading and the game of catch-up HDMI seems to have to play vs. Display Port. But unlike Apple making the switch from their standard plug for years to the Lightning cable and people being OK with it after a while, I do not think the consumer A/V market could switch cable standards unless it happened concurrently with a new, game changing, ground breaking TV that the majority of the market was expected to adopt in a timely manner.
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post #4195 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 10:39 AM
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Has anyone purchased from TV Superstores.com They have the OLED65E6P for $3,029. They have no rating on google search.
No, but I did use their website ad to get a $500 rebate on my credit card for my 65B6.
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post #4196 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Pottypotsworth View Post
Hi guys,

I'm in the market for a new 4K TV and the C6 model is a very likely candidate. I tried to search the forum but couldn't find an answer as to whether or not there is going to be a flat version of the C6 launched soon? I'd drop down to the B6 but i want 3D, the D6 is slightly out of my price range.

Many thanks.
I have the C6 and the curve is quite subtle, much less so than, for example, Samsung TVs. To be honest I was not thrilled about the curve, but since buying it I have NO problems at all with it. And the 3D is fantastic.
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post #4197 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 11:26 AM
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I have the C6 and the curve is quite subtle, much less so than, for example, Samsung TVs. To be honest I was not thrilled about the curve, but since buying it I have NO problems at all with it. And the 3D is fantastic.
That's good to hear, I did read on a couple of reviews that the 3D really shines with this set. Have you noticed the lagging issues as per other posters when watching 24p content?

Thanks
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post #4198 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 11:49 AM
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Well, the 2017 CES is in 3 months. That will probably be the earliest you can find out with any certainty.
Only problem is they are all prototypes.......
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Originally Posted by Tom Cooper View Post
Spoiler!
4k isn't the issue here. You are comparing a YCbCr 4:2:0 source and a Full RGB source. Unless you adjusted the black level on the HDMI input from low to high when you displayed the Full RGB, you are simply crushing the blacks and then the artifacts you are seeing there drop below the noise floor. You can pretty much tell that by looking at the rest of the detail in the image since a lot of shadow detail is missing in the 2nd image. If you set black level to high on the TV for the 1080p source, it will likely look the same as the 4k source. This is also why both look the same when you are using the internal plex app. The internal app is handling matching the source black level with the right output levels.

Don't use other people's calibration settings for anything other than judging whether or not you are way out of whack with your own settings. Generally leave while balance alone unless you have a meter (the only exception in this case is IRE5 luminance for black level tuning.)

The best thing you can do is read through the following thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...ck-detail.html

In a nutshell, you want to adjust brightness so that a 0% slide doesn't show any panel glow. Then go back with a black level slide and adjust IRE5 luminance so that 0.5%-1% grey starts being visible.

That should minimize noise artifacts while maintaining black levels. When you do this, make sure you have your black level on the TV set properly to match the source. There's a lot more you can do for fine tuning if you want to really get into it (lower 2pt low levels so that you can maintain a higher brightness without 0% glow is one of them.) But leaving everything at defaults for ISF Dark and then just touching contrast, brightness, and IRE5 in the 20pt white balance should be enough to get great shadow detail without exaggerating artifacts in the source.
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bull3964 is offline  
post #4200 of 28467 Old 09-29-2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alienn View Post
I have x box s and 55c6 tv...
what is the best settings for hdr on x box s for uhd and for games that support hdr?like forza horizen 3?
BUMP....
help please...
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