2016 LG C6-B6 owners thread - Page 548 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16411 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
Just -5. What I meant by the return window comment was that with this fix I was still happy enough with this tv vs all the other tv's on the market to keep the OLED and not do an exchange. If I couldn't fix the near black issue I would have been able to live with it vs some edge lit LED with dozens of its own (worse) issues.


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Oh for sure! Makes sense now! Ok I'm gonna try your recommended IRE 5 at -5 tonight and see how I like it. So far I love my B6 too.
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post #16412 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 09:29 AM
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Oh for sure! Makes sense now! Ok I'm gonna try your recommended IRE 5 at -5 tonight and see how I like it. So far I love my B6 too.


Idk if you own the movie or not, but the blu ray of "bone tomahawk" is what I used to dial in my black/near black issues. There's a night scene at a camp fire that has this weird gray glow of banding above the fire light and stood out to me a lot. Coincidentally that was the 2nd or 3rd blu ray I watched on this set. I saw the near black thread and thought that going the other way should work just as well. Slight black crush to me is far far more preferable than unnatural artifacts or gray black banding. I'm also making it sound much worse than it actually is, in reality most people probably wouldn't notice what I'm talking about. But yeah -5 on the 5 ire was my only tweak and things look phenomenal to me now for the last 6 months and 200+ blu rays


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post #16413 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ma1746 View Post
Idk if you own the movie or not, but the blu ray of "bone tomahawk" is what I used to dial in my black/near black issues. There's a night scene at a camp fire that has this weird gray glow of banding above the fire light and stood out to me a lot. Coincidentally that was the 2nd or 3rd blu ray I watched on this set. I saw the near black thread and thought that going the other way should work just as well. Slight black crush to me is far far more preferable than unnatural artifacts or gray black banding. I'm also making it sound much worse than it actually is, in reality most people probably wouldn't notice what I'm talking about. But yeah -5 on the 5 ire was my only tweak and things look phenomenal to me now for the last 6 months and 200+ blu rays


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Nice! Great info for sure. Was bone tomahawk just a normal 1080p blu ray or was it UHD? Just asking cuz I don't have my oppo 203 yet. So I've just been watching normal 1080p blu rays.

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post #16414 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 10:05 AM
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I have also found -5 at 5% IRE to be a good compromise. My unit has reverse vignette somewhat prominently on the left inch or so and the right third of the screen is very slightly brighter. This pretty much makes it so my eyes can see the reverse vignette (at least the offputting grayness on the left) and I can only tell a very slight difference (or crush) in the middle of the screen on a tiny percentage of content.


Considering my unit is basically 100% band free which I would have thought even 6 months ago was an impossibility on OLEDs (or even more recently with the vaunted Sony Oled having reports of banding), I'll most likely stick with what I got. Especially given the price (~$1100)
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post #16415 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman23 View Post
Nice! Great info for sure. Was bone tomahawk just a normal 1080p blu ray or was it UHD? Just asking cuz I don't have my oppo 203 yet. So I've just been watching normal 1080p blu rays.


Regular blu ray. Excellent movie though, and looks and sounds wonderful on my system. The kind of movie with endless replay value with top notch acting.


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post #16416 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TetraVaal View Post
So, I was just watching 'La La Land' on 4K Blu-Ray on the Oppo 203, and just had something weird occur.

At the 17-minute mark, when the shot slowly pans in on Emma Stone as the light gradually darkens around her, I noticed some odd sort of compression/banding issue. I don't think it's with the panel itself, as it was more pronounced when I tried this scene out on the Xbox One S.

Is this likely an example of the HDR encoding on the disc? It looked really ugly. I tried taking photos, but my phone just isn't picking it up.

See, this is my issue with Blu-Ray forum their reviews at the moment. I have no idea how this scores a 4.5/5

While the colors and black levels overall look pretty good, the artifacts and compression issues are most certainly enough to drop this down to a 3/5 at best.

I may not understand the terminology for a lot of these technologies, but my eyes can tell a good transfer from a bad one. Like, I seriously can't believe they gave this film the same score as Chappie, The Martian, the original Ghostbusters, etc. when those films had none of these issues.

EDIT: so, as it turns out, this is an issue with OLED handling "near black" scenes, and doesn't appear to be a source issue.

This is incredibly disappointing. If I had known these issues were so pronounced with OLEDs, I might've considered going with one of the newer Sony LEDs as they still support Dolby Vision.
I'd like to chime in on this, as well. I noticed what you were talking about here and I thought something wasn't right. I then I checked my HDR settings and found that my brightness setting was set a couple clicks higher than normal. Not sure how that happened, maybe I was fiddling with the settings and forgot to set it back.

After I set my HDR's brightness back to the normal setting I checked the scene again and the banding disappeared. And I continued watching the movie without any problems.

I also double checked the standard blu-ray to see how it compared in various scenes, including that scene, and sure enough my previous setting showed the brightness was different, but after bumping it back down to normal, the scenes looked very similar.

So, I'm thinking that this maybe a problem still with how the disc was encoded/compressed, but only really noticeable when the sets are not calibrated properly. Because, as you said, despite the LG's having less than ideal near-black handling, this was not noticed on other discs at all.

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post #16417 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 10:53 AM
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So, in anticipation of receiving my Oppo 203 and starting a good UHD library, I revisited my SDR calibration settings and finally setup an ISF Bright and Dark profile (before I was just using ISF Bright, around 65fL calibrated, even for dark room Blu-ray watching). Using an iD3 and CalMAN. Wouldn't call myself a professional by any means, but having seen Chad calibrate most of my displays in the past and spending the last two years tinkering with CalMAN software...I'm an educated amateur I would say.

One thing I have decided on is to NOT pursue perfect near black detail and went for a straight Gamma value of 2.3 (including for 5 IRE). I am using a Brightness of 52 paired with a luminance of -3 for 5 IRE (I am also using the -20RGB value trick for 2pt Low to prevent elevated blacks that can happen on certain panels). All other IRE values are calibrated for a perfect 2.3 gamma...no unnecessary adjustments in an attempt to reveal more detail. When displaying the custom near black pattern in the dedicated "LG Near Black" thread, value 17 is crushed, 18 is only visible if I sit in the dark for 5 minutes and then put my nose right up to the pattern, 19 is barely visible from my seat (and I mean barely) and 20 and above are all adequately visible in increasing intensity. This is for my ISF Dark profile (40fL calibrated). For the ISF Bright profile (60fL calibrated), 18 is almost visible from my seat and 19 is clearly visible. 17 is still crushed.

Am I crushing the lowest of the low black detail? Yea. But it's 0.5% and below of the video signal. If I really really stressed out about 0.5% imperfections throughout my life, everyday living would be atrocious.

I am also lucky in that my panel is near perfect for uniformity. a 1% IRE full screen slide shows almost no DSE/banding and absolutely no vignetting. I'll take THAT over some minuscule near black detail any day.

To each his own though.

P.S. - In terms of adjusting luminance for better near black detail, 5 IRE is really the only value that will make a huge difference. When looking at a black clipping pattern (such as the custom one in the "Near Black" thread or the standard AVS 709 pattern), each value is roughly 0.5% of the video signal; 17= 0.5%, 18=1% and so on (roughly, someone can correct my rounding errors). So if 5 IRE represents 5% of the video signal, changing its luminance will effect the near black detail/values. But 10% (10 IRE) and above will not. Changing these luminance values will help darker scenes (such as the darkest grays) but not the very darkest/near black values.
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post #16418 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 11:32 AM
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BCJ, my experience right now leads me to be more in line with what you are saying. Having spent so much time trying to eek out every last little bit of near-black performance for the first few months of owning the TV, I've now stopped. That 0.5% black detail is far less important for me to. Raising different luminance levels to the point of making near blacks gray-looking is far more distracting than knowing that I am getting easily visible details in 0.5%.

For the last month or so I've since done away with doing the 5 Ire boost then subsequent rampdown and have been completely satisfied, if not more satisfied. I'm still able to see details in places where they were plainly obvious with the boost, but dark transitions feel less washed out and more inky.

After taking brightness setting in the service menu down one notch to 127 to combat panel glow, then raising brightness in the user menu, panel glow is gone and I can raise my brightness to 51. I can see pattern 17 if I am close to the panel, 18 is visible from my seated position.

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post #16419 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
BCJ, my experience right now leads me to be more in line with what you are saying. Having spent so much time trying to eek out every last little bit of near-black performance for the first few months of owning the TV, I've now stopped. That 0.5% black detail is far less important for me to. Raising different luminance levels to the point of making near blacks gray-looking is far more distracting than knowing that I am getting easily visible details in 0.5%.

For the last month or so I've since done away with doing the 5 Ire boost then subsequent rampdown and have been completely satisfied, if not more satisfied. I'm still able to see details in places where they were plainly obvious with the boost, but dark transitions feel less washed out and more inky.

After taking brightness setting in the service menu down one notch to 127 to combat panel glow, then raising brightness in the user menu, panel glow is gone and I can raise my brightness to 51. I can see pattern 17 if I am close to the panel, 18 is visible from my seated position.
Do you mind posting your settings? And what is the panel glow you're trying to combat?
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post #16420 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:13 PM
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Real Cinema

I have been watching DirecTV for a few days now with Real Cinema set to off.

The motion seems to be very slightly better with Real Cinema set to off. This is especially evident in the news scrolls at the bottom of sports and news channels. "Micro-sputters" seem to have disappeared.

I have been mostly watching sports and I guess Real Cinema is for 24p movies but I didn't see a difference in movies either.

I have turned Real Cinema on and off and I have never seen Real Cinema do much of anything.

I also discovered that as soon as you turn on the on-screen menu Real Cinema shuts off. You can see this very easily when MLB channel plays a movie, but still has scrolling at the bottom of the screen. I think they play movies on Sunday night. The scrolling is extremely jittery when they play a movie, probably something to do with 24 FPS and 60 FPS at the same time.
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post #16421 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:14 PM
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Do you mind posting your settings? And what is the panel glow you're trying to combat?
Each panel varies a bit, some people can set their brightness to 50 without illuminating the panel on a fullscreen 0% grey pattern. Some people can set it as high as 53 and not have any panel glow.

By default for my panel, I had to set my brightness to 49 in order to not get the panel to glow on a 0% pattern. At that setting, I could not see pattern 17 or pattern 18 on a calibration disc or any test pattern.

Being able to adjust the service menu brightness down from 128 to 127, I was able to raise my user menu brightness two clicks up to 51. Now I can (barely) see pattern 17 and pattern 18 is visible from my seating area. All while still having no glow on a 0% grey pattern.

As for my settings. This is what I have for SDR (as best as I can remember, since I'm not at home):

Picture Mode: ISF Dark
OLED Light = 65
Contrast = 85
Brightness = 51
H Sharpness = 0
V Sharpness = 0
Color = 47
Tint = 0

Expert Controls
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Super Resolution = Off
Color Gamut = Normal
Edge Enhancer = Off
Color Filter = Off
Gamma = BT.1886
Color Temperature = Warm 2
2pt White Balance = Don't remember off the top of my head, but I know Low/Green setting was at 0.
20pt White Balance = Untouched
Color Management System = Untouched

Picture Mode Settings
Noise Reduction = Off
MPEG Noise Reduction = Off
Black Level = Low
Real Cinema = On
Motion Eye Care = Off
TruMotion = varies for different sources. But DeJudder is always at 0 regardless for me.
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post #16422 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
Each panel varies a bit, some people can set their brightness to 50 without illuminating the panel on a fullscreen 0% grey pattern. Some people can set it as high as 53 and not have any panel glow.

By default for my panel, I had to set my brightness to 49 in order to not get the panel to glow on a 0% pattern. At that setting, I could not see pattern 17 or pattern 18 on a calibration disc or any test pattern.

Being able to adjust the service menu brightness down from 128 to 127, I was able to raise my user menu brightness two clicks up to 51. Now I can (barely) see pattern 17 and pattern 18 is visible from my seating area. All while still having no glow on a 0% grey pattern.

As for my settings. This is what I have for SDR (as best as I can remember, since I'm not at home):

Picture Mode: ISF Dark
OLED Light = 65
Contrast = 85
Brightness = 51
H Sharpness = 0
V Sharpness = 0
Color = 47
Tint = 0

Expert Controls
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Super Resolution = Off
Color Gamut = Normal
Edge Enhancer = Off
Color Filter = Off
Gamma = BT.1886
Color Temperature = Warm 2
2pt White Balance = Don't remember off the top of my head, but I know Low/Green setting was at 0.
20pt White Balance = Untouched
Color Management System = Untouched

Picture Mode Settings
Noise Reduction = Off
MPEG Noise Reduction = Off
Black Level = Low
Real Cinema = On
Motion Eye Care = Off
TruMotion = varies for different sources. But DeJudder is always at 0 regardless for me.
Thanks a million - sorry to be ignorant, but where are you getting these patterns you're testing against?
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post #16423 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
Each panel varies a bit, some people can set their brightness to 50 without illuminating the panel on a fullscreen 0% grey pattern. Some people can set it as high as 53 and not have any panel glow.

By default for my panel, I had to set my brightness to 49 in order to not get the panel to glow on a 0% pattern. At that setting, I could not see pattern 17 or pattern 18 on a calibration disc or any test pattern.

Being able to adjust the service menu brightness down from 128 to 127, I was able to raise my user menu brightness two clicks up to 51. Now I can (barely) see pattern 17 and pattern 18 is visible from my seating area. All while still having no glow on a 0% grey pattern.
Another trick that works on some panels is to lower Red, Green, and Blue to - 20 each for the 2pt Low setting. This got rid of panel glow for me up to a Brightness of 52. It doesn't work on all sets though.

Interestingly enough, setting RGB to - 20 for 2pt low has zero effect on my 5 IRE reading in CalMAN. So it's a win win.

And I'll agree, ever since I gave up on chasing near black detail a few weeks ago, I honestly think my Blu-rays have not looked any better. The touch up I just did today has brought even more pop to the picture.

As always though, to each their own.

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post #16424 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:38 PM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post46798617

This post as a downloadable test pattern. Also check out the "LG OLED - how to enhance near black detail" thread in general.

Lots of great insight.

Also if you have a Spears and Munsil calibration disc or AVS Calibration disc, those will have test patterns that you can use, too.

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post #16425 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Another trick that works on some panels is to lower Red, Green, and Blue to - 20 each for the 2pt Low setting. This got rid of panel glow for me up to a Brightness of 52. It doesn't work on all sets though.

Interestingly enough, setting RGB to - 20 for 2pt low has zero effect on my 5 IRE reading in CalMAN. So it's a win win.

And I'll agree, ever since I gave up on chasing near black detail a few weeks ago, I honestly think my Blu-rays have not looked any better. The touch up I just did today has brought even more pop to the picture.

As always though, to each their own.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
For sure, people should also try that, especially if they are not comfortable going into service menus to change settings. Oddly enough, the RGB -20 didn't work for me, but definitely would be worth someone else checking out on their panel as well.

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post #16426 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 12:53 PM
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Ok Chad b is coming tomorrow for my cal and I'm super excited.

But I have a question on how I should do my inputs.

I have:

A non 4k non hdr av receiver (only tx sr508)
Xbox one s
PS4 og
Xfinity x1 tv
Nintendo switch (yay I found one)
and intermittently a Wii U but it's not always hooked up

Currently I have:
Input 1: Xfinity
2: ARC to avr
3: X1s
4: PS4

I don't have the switch yet

I have to keep the x1 and PS4 on dedicated inputs because of hdr.

I'm trying to use as few remotes as possible. Should I make the avr optical and plug the switch direct to the tv? Then all my input changes are on the tv remote.

Or should I start routing things through the avr? I could go cable and switch to the avr but then I have to change picture modes when I change inputs. But I'll have 2 more inputs I can use and leave hdmi cables open to if I need them.

Or is there some other solution I'm not seeing? If I route just the cable box through the avr and continue using arc, will I have to switch avr inputs when I change tv inputs?

The main thing hooked up will be the switch. The Wii U will only be connected rarely. I keep telling myself I will plug my laptop in as well but I still haven't done it once in 3 months.

Also does the input number matter? Like should I keep the x1 and PS4 on 3/4 or is 1/2 better?




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post #16427 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:20 PM
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That's not entirely true.

Games optimized on the PS4 Pro, even if they're locked at 30fps, at least don't feature any frame drops.

Games like Fallout 4, which received and PS4 Pro patch for performance, play noticeably smoother compared to what they played on standard PS4s or XB1.

While 60fps is obviously the preferred framerate for gaming, it's not like games that play consistently at 30fps are unbearable to look at on the B6.
I am currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn on my PS4 Pro/B6 and am thrilled with the HDR pseudo 4K game play. I sit about 5 feet back from my 55" set and the presentation and game play is superb. I am sensitive to stutter and judder but I cannot tell if the game is playing 30 or 60 fps. If motion blurring is intelligently applied to the game (much like digital animation nowadays) it can be quite hard to see. The fps is rock steady and I have yet to see any stutter, slowdown or artifacts after maybe 30 hours of play. As a demo for HDR on the B6 I think this game is hard to beat. I love it!
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post #16428 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:35 PM
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I am currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn on my PS4 Pro/B6 and am thrilled with the HDR pseudo 4K game play. I sit about 5 feet back from my 55" set and the presentation and game play is superb. I am sensitive to stutter and judder but I cannot tell if the game is playing 30 or 60 fps. If motion blurring is intelligently applied to the game (much like digital animation nowadays) it can be quite hard to see. The fps is rock steady and I have yet to see any stutter, slowdown or artifacts after maybe 30 hours of play. As a demo for HDR on the B6 I think this game is hard to beat. I love it!
It's definitely 30 FPS but the implementation is superb =)

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post #16429 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:38 PM
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It's definitely 30 FPS but the implementation is superb =)

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Do you guys have a list of 60fps games for the PS4 Pro?

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post #16430 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Westin View Post
Im ignorant here, so do you mind if I ask why 12 bit is better or 24 bit is better?
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Originally Posted by sechev00 View Post
You and I are on the same boat. I have just seen 12 bit be suggested a good bit throughout the forum so I've stuck with that setting and haven't had any issues. I know some have expressed why but I can't necessarily remember at the moment. I can try searching a bit for it.
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Check this post by ConnecTEDDD here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post50740945

Very useful with great information. In a summary, depending on what you're doing, he says the recommended settings would be:
12bit for SDR Blu-Ray
12bit for HDR UHD Movies (It will output 10bit)
12bit for HDR Games
8bit for SDR Games

Also this is useful:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD
XBOX One S Video Settings, it has 2 options, the Recommended which output 16-235 (TV/Video Legal Levels), and the other for Monitor out which will output 0-255 (Pc/Data Levels).

The correct option there for TV's is the recommended.
In other words, TV/Xbox black levels both set to low.
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post #16431 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by billdag View Post
I am currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn on my PS4 Pro/B6 and am thrilled with the HDR pseudo 4K game play. I sit about 5 feet back from my 55" set and the presentation and game play is superb. I am sensitive to stutter and judder but I cannot tell if the game is playing 30 or 60 fps. If motion blurring is intelligently applied to the game (much like digital animation nowadays) it can be quite hard to see. The fps is rock steady and I have yet to see any stutter, slowdown or artifacts after maybe 30 hours of play. As a demo for HDR on the B6 I think this game is hard to beat. I love it!


I get sucked in playing with Photo Mode on that game constantly. Game is truly gorgeous. I snapped this one last night while playing. Of course nothing compares to how the real thing looks in person ^__^




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post #16432 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:56 PM
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24 bits don't exist. They are clearly talking about 8 bits per primary colors for a total of 24.
Some probably get confused because the Xbox One options didn't used to be 8/10/12 bit. It was listed as 24/30/36 bpp.
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post #16433 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:57 PM
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Just got my second 65c6p . my first one when it was in the after 4 hour compensation cycle a right light would stay on that you could see when you looked behind the screen, this was a 2016 build. My new one a 2017 build same model has no light so I can't tell if the cycle is actually working . talk to a lg rep through chat and he said they stoped putting the red lights in and the comp cycles know run after 2 hours of run time. Anyone else with a 2017 build confirm the no red light on their set when in compensation cycle
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post #16434 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by woods3336 View Post
Check this post by ConnecTEDDD here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post50740945

Very useful with great information. In a summary, depending on what you're doing, he says the recommended settings would be:
12bit for SDR Blu-Ray
12bit for HDR UHD Movies (It will output 10bit)
12bit for HDR Games
8bit for SDR Games

Also this is useful:


In other words, TV/Xbox black levels both set to low.

So it seems like 12-bit would be the best option. If playing an SDR game, will a user need to be switching over to the 8-bit option or having it at 12-bit is okay as the game will know to utilize 8-bit?
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post #16435 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dtowntke01 View Post
Just got my second 65c6p . my first one when it was in the after 4 hour compensation cycle a right light would stay on that you could see when you looked behind the screen, this was a 2016 build. My new one a 2017 build same model has no light so I can't tell if the cycle is actually working . talk to a lg rep through chat and he said they stoped putting the red lights in and the comp cycles know run after 2 hours of run time. Anyone else with a 2017 build confirm the no red light on their set when in compensation cycle
Where is the red light at or was at?

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post #16436 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sechev00 View Post
So it seems like 12-bit would be the best option. If playing an SDR game, will a user need to be switching over to the 8-bit option or having it at 12-bit is okay as the game will know to utilize 8-bit?
Change it manually to 8-bit for an SDR game.
ConnecTEDDD also says this. For an SDR game, RGB-Video 8-bit output will be better visually from 4:2:0 10/12bit.
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post #16437 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by woods3336 View Post
Change it manually to 8-bit for an SDR game.
ConnecTEDDD also says this. For an SDR game, RGB-Video 8-bit output will be better visually from 4:2:0 10/12bit.


Thanks for the clarification and reference! I'll make sure to set the One S to 8-bit when playing a SDR game. Btw, on the Xbox One S when doing the 4K test in Settings, is the option for 50hz the only one meant to be without the green checkmark or are all supposed to be checked green?


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post #16438 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:30 PM
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Light indicating compensation cycle running

Ya - I'm interested in that as well. I have never seen any light behind my 55b6, and I've looked through the vents almost every single time I turn it off. I'm only at 170 hours of use, though. So far haven't seen any compensation cycle run - but maybe it has been running.
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post #16439 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Superman23 View Post
Do you guys have a list of 60fps games for the PS4 Pro?
None that I know of but you can easily find via google.

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post #16440 of 28350 Old 05-03-2017, 02:38 PM
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Do you guys have a list of 60fps games for the PS4 Pro?


This site is doing pretty good with keeping track of Pro enhancements, including what options certain games have like 4K @ 30 fps or as well as having 1080p @ 60 fps. They also have an HDR column showing if that game has HDR support or not.

http://m.ign.com/wikis/playstation-4...nd_Differences


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Last edited by sechev00; 05-03-2017 at 02:43 PM.
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